How do I deal with my truscum Trans friend who claims that Republicans aren't transphobic?

[chaostrophy]

Maybe ask her what she likes or respects about Trump or the Republicans, why she feels they represent her better than the Democrats and what changes for the better she thinks they would make?

From my perspective as a cis het white guy with the privilege to vote based on my ideas about how society should be run rather than immediate self preservation...I can understand that's an attractive privilege. So even though I vote D primarily to help protect minorities, I can understand how it could be frustrating for minorities to be told "no, you can't make a choice like cis (or white, etc.) people do, you have to vote based on your identity."

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I recommend everyone talk politics with their friends, at least you know what type of person you are dealing with.

Stop befriending terfs and racists.

 

[rjinaz]

If you care about her you should absolutely not cut her of your life. Try to stay by her side, counterargument the bullshit she will say, and when the conservative community treats her like shit be there for her. There isn't much you can do on the short run, but you might have an impact in the long run if you do stay with her.

Click to shrink...

I feel like this view is naive. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to cut people out of your life for your own mental health. Did it occur to you that the other person may just be keeping the relationship going using the same logic that just maybe they can convince the other person someday to be transphobic? They see their view as right and only if the other person moves their way will they ever see progress made.

Sometimes two people are just never going to be on the same page. I would say, sure, put up a fight for a bit if you care for the person. But if you can see their views are not changing, and they remain a bigot, at some point you have to move on.

I would make this argument for family even, but, especially friends.

 

[Steel]

Honestly, no, but I keep reminding myself that these beliefs of hers are still very new and they can change. We don't talk about politics a whole lot anyway, and it just peeks its way into our conversations every once in a while.

Click to shrink...

Are you actually sure the views are new? If you don't talk politics with her often, they could've just been lurking there, and now she just feels particularly emboldened to talk about them because the dems having power is pissing her off.

There are relatively small pockets of the trans community who are Conservative (more so among white trans women). If she's surrounded herself with a crowd like this, it may be damn hard to penetrate inside that bubble. Not sure you can hold out much hope for them in this circumstance, tbh. I've had to cut other trans friends out of my life for their reprehensible, intractable views. (A few of them have actively tried to harm me.)

Best of luck to you. Just remember that no one can change her mind except herself.

Click to shrink...

Ye-up, this is my experience with that bubble minus the active attempts to harm. Also, yeah, there's a white side to it with a dash of racism dashed in (Trump saying things like "look at Saudi Arabia, we're so much better to LGBT than them" really tickles them).

 

[Slash]

Are you actually sure the views are new? If you don't talk politics with her often, they could've just been lurking there, and now she just feels particularly emboldened to talk about them because the dems having power is pissing her off.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, because a year ago she actually supported this and didn't try to say the stuff about "only two genders" and all of the anti-nonbinary stuff. Not sure about other political views in general, but she definitely moved right on the LGBT front.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Sounds like your friend is kind of an asshole, no offense

Guess if depends if you think you can break through to them or not. if they're this far gone, seems unlikely

 

[Steel]

Yeah, because a year ago she actually supported this and didn't try to say the stuff about "only two genders" and all of the anti-nonbinary stuff. Not sure about other political views in general, but she definitely moved right on the LGBT front.

Click to shrink...

What's 'this' in this context? Regardless, if you weren't sure of her other political views, she could've been intractably conservative/Republican all along, and that's the root of what caused her change in other beliefs. AKA if you're conservative you're gonna be watching certain youtube videos that feed your bias, which will in turn introduce new horrible concepts. The direct cause is the rabbit hole, but if that rabbit hole is anchored by "I'm a Trans Republican, because Republicans are just fine" bullshit, then I really doubt you'll get through to her. If she changes, it'll have to be through self-reflection, imo.

 

[Slash]

What's 'this' in this context? Regardless, if you weren't sure of her other political views, she could've been intractably conservative/Republican all along, and that's the root of what caused her change in other beliefs. AKA if you're conservative you're gonna be watching certain youtube videos that feed your bias, which will in turn introduce new horrible concepts. The direct cause is the rabbit hole, but if that rabbit hole is anchored by "I'm a Trans Republican, because Republicans are just fine" bullshit, then I really doubt you'll get through to her. If she changes, it'll have to be through self-reflection, imo.

Click to shrink...

By "this" I meant the stuff I was referring to in the OP like what it means to be pansexual and non-binary. And that does make sense for me, because it certainly looks like she's been in some sort of rabbit hole the past year.

 

[Clefargle]

If you figure it out, let us know. Not sure how to persuade someone that far removed from reality.

Click to shrink...

the only viable option I've heard of is to give up on direct confrontation and try to suggest positive things to replace her feed of rabbithole garbage with. Stop trying to convince her and distract her with LGBTQ+ positive content that will *hopefully* shift her thinking and simultaneously her algorithm output.

 

[RoaminRonin]

She does, but I have a feeling that the people she's around might have similar beliefs. She cut a whole lot of people out of her life last year when she criticized non-binary genders on her Twitter account. It's just a whole mess.

Click to shrink...

You aren't making a good case on wanting to keep her around as a friend to be quite honest here. All the hassle and energy should be spent else where, someone more deserving of your friendship.

 

[Slash]

You aren't making a good case on wanting to keep her around as a friend to be quite honest here.

Click to shrink...

I know that. I really have to think about this, because I still think this isn't who she is...

 

[Deleted member 8750]

Honestly, no, but I keep reminding myself that these beliefs of hers are still very new and they can change. We don't talk about politics a whole lot anyway, and it just peeks its way into our conversations every once in a while.

Click to shrink...

Have you asked her why she has become anti-nonbinary?

I understand your dilemma when caring about someone who has intolerant views. I'm struggling with it right now.

While she isn't a white supremacist, I think this guide on Life After Hate might help you:https://www.lifeafterhate.org/resou...hen-a-loved-one-sides-with-white-supremacists

 

[Slash]

Have you asked her why she has become anti-nonbinary?

I understand your dilemma when caring about someone who has intolerant views. I'm struggling with it right now.

While she isn't a white supremacist, I think this guide on Life After Hate might help you:https://www.lifeafterhate.org/resou...hen-a-loved-one-sides-with-white-supremacists

Click to shrink...

She isn't anti-nonbinary as a whole, but she says things she sees on Twitter like neopronouns and xenogenders "invalidate" her by making her existence the subject of jokes or something. None of it really makes sense to me. I'll check out that guide, thank you.

 

[RoaminRonin]

I know that. I really have to think about this, because I still think this isn't who she is...

Click to shrink...

"When someone shows you who they really are, believe them". - Maya Angelou

 

[soda mixer]

I seriously don't mean to be shitty, but is "truscum" a meaningful word in the title or is it a typo?

Regardless, has your friend expressed views on the Republican Party's stances on non-lgbtq issues? Like if she doesn't regard them as transphobic, does she also regard them as non-racist despite the positions on BLM and immigration?

 

[Slash]

I seriously don't mean to be shitty, but is "truscum" a meaningful word in the title or is it a typo?

Regardless, has your friend expressed views on the Republican Party's stances on non-lgbtq issues? Like if she doesn't regard them as transphobic, does she also regard them as non-racist despite the positions on BLM and immigration?

Click to shrink...

Regarding the "truscum" thing, it was something I noticed in her bio that she intentionally highlighted about herself so I thought it was appropriate; I'm not 100% sure what it means, however. We haven't really talked about politics that much apart from the LGBT stuff, but I do suspect that she would say similar responses about BLM and immigration based on her responses to the things we've talked about.

 

[Steel]

Regarding the "truscum" thing, it was something I noticed in her bio that she intentionally highlighted about herself so I thought it was appropriate; I'm not 100% sure what it means, however. We haven't really talked about politics that much apart from the LGBT stuff, but I do suspect that she would say similar responses about BLM and immigration based on her responses to the things we've talked about.

Click to shrink...

I seriously don't mean to be shitty, but is "truscum" a meaningful word in the title or is it a typo?

Regardless, has your friend expressed views on the Republican Party's stances on non-lgbtq issues? Like if she doesn't regard them as transphobic, does she also regard them as non-racist despite the positions on BLM and immigration?

Click to shrink...

truscum are basically trans people who believe that anyone that hasn't experienced gender dysphoria are not trans, generally anti-non binary, which makes the thread title somewhat redundant, but self-identifying that way is...

 

[GameBuddy]

"Truscum" is another word for a transmedicalist which is someone who believes you are not truly a trans person unless you experience and/or are diagnosed with gender dysphoria and/or have gender confirmation, or as they may insist on calling it, sexual reassignment surgery.

It's popular amongst the right leaning LGBT+ crowd and TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists) because it's essentially a "no true Scotsman" argument that is often used to argue that trans people are just confused and insists that being trans is a mental disorder that must make you miserable in some way unless you go to a doctor to be "properly" diagnosed and eventually get surgery.

 

[JVID]

Have them attend CPAC?

 

[Slash]

Thanks for the explanation about the "truscum" thing- that cleared it up for me, but it's weird that she highlighted it in her bio. I think she removed it at one point.

Have them attend CPAC?

Click to shrink...

Yikes, that would be harsh but she would probably see what I mean.

 

[soda mixer]

truscum are basically trans people who believe that anyone that hasn't experienced gender dysphoria are not trans, generally anti-non binary, which makes the thread title somewhat redundant, but self-identifying that way is...

Click to shrink...

"Truscum" is another word for a transmedicalist which is someone who believes you are not truly a trans person unless you experience and/or are diagnosed with gender dysphoria and/or have gender confirmation, or as they may insist on calling it, sexual reassignment surgery.

It's popular amongst the right leaning LGBT+ crowd and TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists) because it's essentially a "no true Scotsman" argument that is often used to argue that trans people are just confused and insists that being trans is a mental disorder that must make you miserable in some way unless you go to a doctor to be "properly" diagnosed and eventually get surgery.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the replies/knowledge!

 

[Daysean]

You don't
She gonna learn the hard way unfortunately that they are not her ally

 

[Deleted member 2779]

People way too quick to get OP to cut this friend out lol.

 

[Slash]

People way too quick to get OP to cut this friend out lol.

Click to shrink...

I understand what they're all saying, though. It's still a really difficult thing to do. Most of my interactions with her don't involve politics.

 

[Khanimus]

It's not your job to turn someone who willfully refuses to believe fire is hot.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Honestly, we don't do a lot of political talk in general, but I was saying how Republicans were going to filibuster the Equality Act and she was acting like they must have had some other reason to oppose it.

Click to shrink...

This has come up three times in your replies and I think it's something that may need pursuing. In particular "must" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. "Must" why? Because she feels Republicans can't all be that transphobic?

Try to make her realize the onus is on Republicans (or anyone else defending them) to state a reason to oppose it other than transphobia, and that failure to even explore what that reason could be is equivalent to knowingly dismissing smoking gun evidence simply because it doesn't conform to her prior beliefs, which is by definition irrational.

I understand what they're all saying, though. It's still a really difficult thing to do. Most of my interactions with her don't involve politics.

Click to shrink...

It's easy for people in a forum to call out for someone else to cut out a friendship, when there's nothing at stake for them except signaling how committed and idelogically pure they are. Nobody can decide for you which is the best option in your case, which I would at least try to frame as the one likely to cause you the least pain overall.

 

[Kamek]

Nothing really to add to the thread, but I had never heard of truscum before and now am wiser about the nuances of the trans community.

 

[Deleted member 2779]

I understand what they're all saying, though. It's still a really difficult thing to do. Most of my interactions with her don't involve politics.

Click to shrink...

I'd keep her in the periphery and stick to the non-political yarns as you're doing. If they're really your friend even if they disagree with you they'll respect your perspective. And when the time comes when she opens up a bit you can be there to point her in the right direction. It's what friends are for. We shouldn't immediately jump to isolating people if they're not hurting you.

 

[Platy]

The Disappearance of Blaire White

The real joke is that she returned from her break hours before I uploaded this video. Anyway, use code "dangelo" to get $25 dollars off your pair of Vessi's ...

www.youtube.com

This video is very good at showing the problems of blaire white
i doubt SHE will see, but it is good for you to see to be able to counter her main points


...or the "tiffany tumbles" video

 

[Rag]

truscum are basically trans people who believe that anyone that hasn't experienced gender dysphoria are not trans, generally anti-non binary, which makes the thread title somewhat redundant, but self-identifying that way is...

Click to shrink...

I'm always looking to learn and grow. I don't know how to phrase this, but I guess I always assumed all trans folks have experienced gender dysphoria or they wouldn't be trans. I realize it isn't anyone's job to explain stuff to me, but I am curious.

edit: rereading my post several minutes later. Autocorrect fucked me on dysphasia vs dysphoria. Apologies if it frustrated anyone.

 

[Avinash117]

Yeah, because a year ago she actually supported this and didn't try to say the stuff about "only two genders" and all of the anti-nonbinary stuff. Not sure about other political views in general, but she definitely moved right on the LGBT front.

Click to shrink...

Could be that she is associating with right-leaning people online( or offline) and probably adapting her views to fit in. People tend to want to be accepted and, in a group regardless of how dangerous they might be, the individual can be swept into that group because the group validated their views and feelings. I wouldn't listen to people to people that say to cut her out. It can make her situation far more worse, if she is that close to you.

 

[Gordon's Tulpa]

I understand what they're all saying, though. It's still a really difficult thing to do. Most of my interactions with her don't involve politics.

Click to shrink...

What makes you uncomfortable about her views? Are you upset about the way it affects her or the way it affects you?

 

[arcadepc]

As long as your friend is not a member of the Republican party , she'll come to her senses

 

[Khanimus]

What makes you uncomfortable about her views? Are you upset about the way it affects her or the way it affects you?

Click to shrink...

You really going to try and ask why I would give someone the middle finger when they downplay what a monstrous nightmare the Republican party is?

Really wanna go "hey, give em a chance! You're being unfair" after four years of Trumpism?

 

[BlueKaty]

She's mentioned Blaire White as someone she watches which I think has similar views to what she's said.

Click to shrink...

And there we have it!

I really don't believe that cutting her out will solve the problem considering how recent she's gained these views.

Click to shrink...

At one point your own sanity might become more important than her views. Lot's of people suggest it already is. You might want to try and accept you can't change her and that cutting her out is the only option.

 

[Messofanego]

Show her some Blair White critiques.

(Sam Collins)

(D'Angelo Wallace)

Let's see her excuse herself after watching both those in full.

That's definitely a good idea. I haven't asked her about the latter, but it certainly seems the case. On January 6th she said that she just muted political topics in general and was just talking about other things right as we were all freaking out as the Capitol was being invaded. I just feel like she's being really selective about her beliefs and won't be open to the fact that they aren't what she thinks they are. I've tried to convince her otherwise in the past. She's also said that talking about her political leanings gives her a "headache".

Click to shrink...

She wants to deny the reality about ultra conservatives and white supremacists if she consciously avoided the Capitol coup attempt. She will keep finding it a headache because she can't keep the cognitive dissonance up anymore. She's gonna crack at some point because she can't avoid politics completely unless if she holes herself up in her room, not looking at her phone or computer, nor talking to anyone.

 

[Deleted member 14518]

Changing people's views like this, the research shows, that its nearly impossible with a head one argumentative approach.

The best you'll probably do is curious open ended questions that ends up making them question what they believe themselves.

In the example above she said that Republicans must have some other reason for voting against the Equalities act, ask her what she thinks they are and try follow the rabbit (down the hole). It's a an interviewing technique but can be difficult. Curious open ended questions.

No harm in trying when stuff comes up, but I wouldnt make it your goal to change her views if you enjoy her company.

 

[Gordon's Tulpa]

You really going to try and ask why I would give someone the middle finger when they downplay what a monstrous nightmare the Republican party is?

Really wanna go "hey, give em a chance! You're being unfair" after four years of Trumpism?

Click to shrink...

Sorry, I misquoted you. My post was directed at the OP.

 

[EdenOfTheEast]

Cut politics from your conversations with them.. I doubt that's the only thing you guys talk about?

 

[Lishi]

It's worth poiting out you don't need to fix everyone opinions.

It's better probably for your mental sake.

 

[vhoanox]

So She's trans and voted for Trump. Don't even bother.

 

[Belladonna]

I'm always looking to learn and grow. I don't know how to phrase this, but I guess I always assumed all trans folks have experienced gender dysphoria or they wouldn't be trans. I realize it isn't anyone's job to explain stuff to me, but I am curious.

edit: rereading my post several minutes later. Autocorrect fucked me on dysphasia vs dysphoria. Apologies if it frustrated anyone.

Click to shrink...

With dysphoria you can have a really strong dysphoria, no dysphoria, some dysphoria, dysphoria only after coming out, dysphoria when doing certain things and so on. It's complicated and depends from person to person. Dysphoria doesn't define you as a trans person, wanting to be your preferred gender does.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Your friend sounds like she's about a month a way from claiming that TERFs are right and that's she's not a real woman and that we should respect bio women's fears of trans women

The Transphobe's pet trans is a very real thing, and they're the absolute worst.

Run.

 

[Aya]

Don't talk politics with her? Surely there are other subjects to talk about.

 

[Small Red Boy]

I feel like this view is naive. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to cut people out of your life for your own mental health. Did it occur to you that the other person may just be keeping the relationship going using the same logic that just maybe they can convince the other person someday to be transphobic? They see their view as right and only if the other person moves their way will they ever see progress made.

Sometimes two people are just never going to be on the same page. I would say, sure, put up a fight for a bit if you care for the person. But if you can see their views are not changing, and they remain a bigot, at some point you have to move on.

I would make this argument for family even, but, especially friends.

Click to shrink...

I don't know. I just wouldn't give up on a friendship without even trying and just cut straight to not seeing them again in my life. Obviosuly OPs mental health comes first for him, but I wouldn't recommend cutting someone from your life straight away. Specially since she is trans (OPs friend), and if only conservativces remain as her friends she is going to have a rough time.

 

[Nida]

prob went down some YouTube rabbithole.

what lead to that is probably some "hurt feelings, leftist mob are trying to cancel something/someone i like" bullshit, if you say she thought differently not too long ago.

it doesn't take much to lead someone down a wrong path.

good luck with the deprogramming.

Click to shrink...

Is she a big fan of Harry Potter?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Umm, have they seen anything from the "Freedom Caucus" made up of House of Representatives members going on about transphobic shit? They had a little press confernce just this past week.

 

[Slash]

This doesn't directly relate to what I was talking about in the OP, but she tweeted that "raising minimum wage is such a stupid fucking idea, all that's gonna happen is that the value of a dollar is gonna go way down " and I debunked that idea in the replies. After that, she said that there wasn't an incentive to go to college and "you're acting braindead dude", which is just a ridiculous statement. No, you shouldn't have to go to college to get a survivable wage. I took it to DMs and she said "no thank you I don't feel like I'm informed enough for a proper debate but the arguments from the other side makes more sense to me". Then I asked what arguments, but she wouldn't say. I told her that it was ridiculous that you make that point without any argument to back it up and said her point was outdated. Right after, she just said "please fucking stop".

So yeah, it's going well. She doesn't want to listen to my arguments at all and she just told me to fucking stop. I didn't bring up the other things from this thread, but clearly she doesn't have an open mind...

 

[Slash]

Should I just send this? It's pretty direct

 

[Ding Dong Daddy]

Wouldn't waste your time.