How do you feel about changing names in localizations?

[Gold Arsene]

So the Bison, Balrog, Vega thread got me thinking about the recurring practice of changing names in localizations of games.

How do you feel about translators doing it?

You have instances where it's clearly meant to translate a joke or theme better, such Splatoon's Callie and Marie.

In Japan their names are Aori and Hotaru, names after kinds of squid. So in English they just made their names a pun on Calamari. It works. Instances like this I'm mostly fine with.

But then their are times when I wonder just why it was done.
For instance in Fire Emblem Fates we have Kazahana and Tsubaki becoming Hana and Subaki.

Like did they think the names where just to complex or something? Was that T just to much? Just seems weird to me.

Anyone my rambles aside how do you feel about name changes? Should they stay faithful or try to translate the context? Do you mind if they change a name for what seems like little reason?

What are your thoughts?

 

[atlans89]

Never forget.

 

[Deleted member 6436]

They change all the names of the bands and their songs in Splatoon and I have no idea why and it really bothers me.

 

[Abriael]

It's never acceptable unless the original name sounds positively vulgar or ridiculous in the target language.

It's a relic of heavy-handed localization of the past, and should go away.

 

[Jintor]

I don't mind. A lot of Xenoblade 2 name changes I've been reading up on and they largely are localisation changes to make stuff that sounds cool to Japanese people sound a bit less weird to English audiences while retaining the thematic stuff, like Hotaru becoming Pyra for the fire connection.

As long as the localisation team is overall good, then name changes are fine.

 

[KingKonga]

It's really annoying in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. They changed so many names in the English localization. Played with japanese dub and English subs. There were many times that I was confused.

 

[Farrac]

It's really annoying in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. They changed so many names in the English localization. Played with japanese dub and English subs. There were many times that I was confused.

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Some make sense but others...What was wrong with Meleph, for example?

 

[Snormy]

Never forget.

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Can't forget what I don't know. Throw me a bone here.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

It's never acceptable unless the original name sounds positively vulgar or ridiculous in the target language.

It's a relic of heavy-handed localization of the past, and should go away.

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It reminds of the Jules Verne "translations" that for centuries changed all the character names because they were deemed to be unacceptable -- German character names in particular -- (and also made extensive rewrites whenever there were political themes British or American audiences might find objectional such as "colonialism is bad".)

 

[Beje]

If the names are obvious puns that *need* to be translated or adapted like most of the Splatoon stuff, or the original name sounds bad and could use a phonetic rework I don't see the problem.

For example, Final Fantasy IX's Zidane was reworked to Yitán in Spanish due to a famous football player from that time, and Malos in XC2 was slightly altered to Mahlos since "malos" is the plural for the adjective "malo" (bad), which are usually used as the "baddie" or "baddies" in a videogame or movie.

Edit: I also don't see any problem in adapting, shortening or changing Japanese games to more palatable versions when in fantasy settings that have nothing or very little to do with actual Japan. Then again, I see why people might despise it, here in Spain we had a history in the 80s and early 90s of butchering up anime doing a "Phoenix Wright" and giving all characters Spanish names and surnames and even pretending the setting was Barcelona, like what happens with Dash Kappei.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

If it's to retain a pun or general meaning (see: Pheonix Wright localizations or Homura -> Pyra in Xenoblade 2) then I don't think it's only ok, but necessary for a different target audience.

If it's arbitrary or unneeded, even if it's just an attempt to stylize the translation on the part of the translator, it's absolutely unacceptable. If you want to write, get a job as a writer. As a translator, it's your job to convey the original meaning and preserve artistic integrity as much as possible.

 

[laoni]

Some make sense but others...What was wrong with Meleph, for example?

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I think it's less something wrong with Meleph (other than perhaps it being an esoteric name for a star) and more changing it to the gaelic name Morag, which fits with the accents and world building and names the localisation team picked for Mor Ardain... While also meaning 'sun', you know, those things that stars are.

 

[Ushojax]

Changes from Japanese to English don't bother me, that is an inevitable part of the localisation process. Japanese writers do not write games for non-Japanese speakers.

What annoys me is when there are different localised names depending on the US/UK translations. Some of the later Advance Wars characters have completely different English names, it's just stupid.

 

[Arkanim94]

it's often necessary, litteral translation are rarely good.

 

[Forkball]

It's never acceptable unless the original name sounds positively vulgar or ridiculous in the target language.

It's a relic of heavy-handed localization of the past, and should go away.

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I hope you never play Pokemon, your mind may melt.

It's always done for a reason. It may not always be the best, but it's not just to change it maliciously. For Hana and Subaki... yeah those are easier to read and say than Kazuhana and Tsubaki. Hayato was Tsukuyomi in Japanese and his name was changed for the same reason. I mean would you be mad if she was Hana in the Japanese game but Kazuhana in the English version? There's always going to be a preference when given two options.

Though they should've fixed the Bison/Vega/Balrog thing years ago.

 

[laoni]

Can't forget what I don't know. Throw me a bone here.

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That's Esty Dee. A poor localisation choice from the original Esti Erhard, given what it sounds like when you say her name fast

 

[Madao]

if there's a clear reason, i'm fine with the change. things like names that carry a meaning or a wordplay that would be lost without knowing the original language. Pokemon names. Splatoon names. names relating to the game's lore, etc.

now, random name changes with no explanation is what bothers me. one that bothers me a lot in the Mario games is that Rosalina's name is different in almost every language. like, why? the original JP name was Rosetta. how is that name not acceptable in the west? also, why even change it for every language? when Rosalina was revealed in SSB4, some people asked me about her but using the spanish name (which i had no idea what it was since i play all games in english) and i was legit like "who???"
i'm not gonna dig into the other language names here but you can see for yourself if you own a Switch and MK8D and cycle through languages. not to mention this causes extra localization work for no real gain.

sometimes there's names that sound better and more unique in localization. a couple of Blades in Xenobalde 2 seem to have much more "generic" names in japanese (generic as in names that are used a lot in other japanese media. the english replacements are much more unique)

 

[Apollo]

I rarely mind. There are a lot of ways to make a localization stand out, and while not always necessary, well thought out name changes can really improve the experience.

 

[Kromeo]

It's part of the localisation process, I don't care at all unless the new name happens to be stupid

 

[Gold Arsene]

I hope you never play Pokemon, your mind may melt.

It's always done for a reason. It may not always be the best, but it's not just to change it maliciously. For Hana and Subaki... yeah those are easier to read and say than Kazuhana and Tsubaki. Hayato was Tsukuyomi in Japanese and his name was changed for the same reason. I mean would you be mad if she was Hana in the Japanese game but Kazuhana in the English version? There's always going to be a preference when given two options.

Though they should've fixed the Bison/Vega/Balrog thing years ago.

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I just find it an odd choice to make change Kazahana. The character is from a country based on Japan. I expect Japanese names to stay the same mostly in that instance.

Stuff like Joker to Jacob I get but some of the other changes just seem weird. But that's just me.

 

[purseowner]

It's almost always a baffling decision, and usually either prevents us getting dual audio in the West or makes the JP language track + Western subs a jarring experience.

Never forget.

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And sometimes we get this.

 

[Apollo]

I just find it an odd choice to make change Kazahana. The character is from a country based on Japan. I expect Japanese names to stay the same mostly in that instance.

Stuff like Joker to Jacob I get but some of the other changes just seem weird. But that's just me.

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I imagine that with Hana's name change, they went for a compromise between readability and faithfulness to the original name. They kept a core part of her original name and made it simpler and easier to remember. Not to mention the name still meant something in Japanese.

 

[Gakidou]

Honestly? I like when localisers use their own sensibilities. It doesn't always pay off, some are better than others, but I think each game should be considered individually. For example (just using Japanese/English as an example, but replaceable with any other countries and languages you get the idea):

-Anything set in japan, fantasy japan or just feeels super Japanese-culture influenced I would prefer they kept the Japanese names in their entirety. And i'd rather play subbed. Persona and Danganronpa are good examples. Ace Attorney famously messed up on this... but I understand where they were coming from, the first game seemed like it was set in some scifi future and the Japanese-ness didn't really come out until later. It's often really hard to draw the line which is why i'd rather just trust localisers than give them a hard rule. To me, localisers are a part of the creative process.

- But if a Japanese game seems set in America or Europe, or has a kinda European medieval fantasy vibe, and some of the names are like Japanese-friendly versions of English names (eg: kurisu = chris) I would rather they changed that. I'd probably be more inclined to a dub if it was good, too. Dragon Quest, XBCX, Dark Souls and Deadly Premonition would be good examples.

Pokemon is an interesting example, because different games vary, some feel set in not-Japan and others in not-Polynesia and not-France. It's cool by me to change it up for each individual setting and narrative!

 

[Tunahead]

"Duff McWhalen" is not merely the worst localization, but actually the worst thing anyone real or fictional has ever done. We looked at that name and decided it was fine, and that's why there shouldn't be translations or localizations. We should all be struck down into the dirt where we would crawl around in our filth like the despicable toilet goblins we are. And we'd cry out for English text in our Japanese games, but instead there would just be an endless wall of unforgiving kanji, because that's what we deserve.

I hope that answers your question, OP.

 

[Jintor]

I love japanifornia though tbh

Like for ace attorney I think it's more important to be faithful to the puns than the Japanese-ness of it really cos the goofiness of the series is really the core of the time imho

 

[trugs26]

I usually don't really care. It's just a name.

Sometimes the name is an expression, and the expression needs to come through in the localisation - the literal characters in the word aren't important, it's the meaning behind the name (such as the given Splatoon example).

Other times it just doesn't matter. It's just a filler name. They just want people to be able to read it quickly without issue (this includes children trying to read the text in the game too, which might give them a tough time).

The only time it might be important is if the character in question is important (e.g. the protagonist). It'd be nice to have those names known around the world the same way. I mainly feel this way because these characters are more like "icon" status. However, some names may just be too difficult for other countries to pronounce - so it's understandable if it changes if necessary.

 

[FantasyZone]

I usually hate it. Xenoblade 2 drove me nuts. I couldn't stand hearing one thing in Japanese and reading another in the subs.

Edit: If there aren't voices I don't mind as much.

 

[Kayo Police]

Never forget.

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What's even worse was nisa trying to defend this crap on their forums at first.

 

[stinkyguy666]

I kind of wish they never changed Rock Man's name to Mega Man. 'Mega Man' is just such a bland name imo.

In the case of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman I think the solution they came up with was pretty smart. His real name is Robotnik, but Eggman is what Sonic calls him as an insult.

 

[Apollo]

I love japanifornia though tbh

Like for ace attorney I think it's more important to be faithful to the puns than the Japanese-ness of it really cos the goofiness of the series is really the core of the time imho

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Yep. You can either have names that have jokes that make sense in English, or retain the Japanese names with puns that Western audiences don't understand. The setting change is merely a consequence of this. Did it make things awkward as things got more and more obviously Japanese? Sure, but the trade off was very much worth it.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go eat hamburgers under my kotatsu.

 

[Deleted member 7450]

Per game basis.
Some work, some don't.

 

[Deleted member 7450]

Oops, sorry

 

[IDreamOfHime]

It always bothered me in Yakuza when Kiryu is being called Kiryu, but the subtitles read Kazuma.
You Mr Translator....i have ears.

 

[MrBadger]

I love japanifornia though tbh

Like for ace attorney I think it's more important to be faithful to the puns than the Japanese-ness of it really cos the goofiness of the series is really the core of the time imho

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Indeed, a lot of the intended humour would be lost if they didn't westernise the pun names.

 

[shinken]

I don't mind. A lot of Xenoblade 2 name changes I've been reading up on and they largely are localisation changes to make stuff that sounds cool to Japanese people sound a bit less weird to English audiences while retaining the thematic stuff, like Hotaru becoming Pyra for the fire connection.

As long as the localisation team is overall good, then name changes are fine.

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It's Homura, not Hotaru and Hikari for Mythra. Some I don't mind, but with others i'm like, why change it? For instance Hana, a totally acceptable name to use in English, but they had to change it to Poppi. Then they kept Tora.....
And Benkei was changed to Patroka, while she obviously looks Japanese.

 

[Lux86]

I kinda hate it, in videogames like in movies and books.

 

[Jintor]

Poppi retains the flower reference better. Also I think it's a suitable sounds-close-but-not-quite name for an artificial blade that a nopon would come up with, rather than Hana which is almost too natural

 

[Apollo]

It's Homura, not Hotaru and Hikari for Mythra. Some I don't mind, but with others i'm like, why change it? For instance Hana, a totally acceptable name to use in English, but they had to change it to Poppi. Then they kept Tora.....
And Benkei was changed to Patroka, while she obviously looks Japanese.

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Hana means flower. A poppy is a kind of flower. It's a completely valid name change.

 

[Deleted member 2793]

I usually don't like it. I just don't use the japanese names for Xenoblade 2 here because I want people to actually understand what I'm talking about, but I prefer the original ones. No offense to the localization team, it's their work, but I'm used to original names in almost everything.

Of course there are some exceptions like Ace Attorney. The names are a big part of the game and it makes sense to adapt them.

 

[shinken]

Hana means flower. A poppy is a kind of flower. It's a completely valid name change.

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Did you read my post? I said Hana is acceptable to the English audience, a name change was unnecessary.

But whatever, they could've easily remedied this problem by showing the original Japanese names in the subtitles when you choose Japanese as the voices.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Another thing that recently happened that made me make this topic was the localization involving my favorite Persona character.

In Japan her name is Aegis, but in every single Persona game to feature her up to this point it was changed to Aigis.

Except when she was announced as DLC for Blazblue Cross Tag Battle this happend.

Now it's currenty unknown if this is just for Blazblue:TAG or if it'll be in all future appearances, but changing it back after all this time is just jarring.

 

[Sailent]

What's even worse was nisa trying to defend this crap on their forums at first.

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What happened in this case? Care to elaborate?

 

[elyetis]

I don't understand why keeping the original names when playing with the VO isn't ( usually ? never seen it at least ) an option.

 

[Deleted member 35204]

I don't like it.

 

[Apollo]

Did you read my post? I said Hana is acceptable to the English audience, a name change was unnecessary.

But whatever, they could've easily remedied this problem by showing the original Japanese names in the subtitles when you choose Japanese as the voices.

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Of course I read your post. You aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't acceptable to the English audience. Like it or not, Hana meant something to the Japanese playerbase. The localization team had to make a choice as to whether or not to maintain the original name or the original name's intended meaning. They chose the latter. If you disagree with that decision, then that's fine, it's a valid opinion. But the name change was certainly not done on some unnecessary whim.

I'm not going to get into an argument on subtitles vs dubtitles. In an ideal world, yes they would adjust the names for players who play with the Japanese audio track, but logistically it sounds like a real pain to include.

 

[KRBM]

If the story's characters are explicitly japanese in-universe, don't translate.
Else, translate to language/culture-appropriate names.

IMO

 

[Stilton Disco]

Completely indifferent to it broadly, and it can actually be beneficial to the game and/or characters.

Unless your story or world is hinging on its setting, a good localisation that plays to the audience's knowledge is broadly better than a straight no frills translation.

 

[Khalme]

I think sometimes the localization team should intervene and save us from stupid names like "Edge Maverick" and co.

 

[PsionBolt]

It's the job of localization to replace words with different words. Literally, that is the task. Names are no exception; even if you prefer the name Kazahana instead of Hana, you still wouldn't want it left as カザハナ in any case. You'd want that replaced.
Like any other kind of work (and especially creative work), it can be done well or poorly. I like when it's done well. Sometimes that means changes that might seem huge, like Pokemon names, and sometimes that might mean changes that seem small, like Fire Emblem names. There are a lot of factors.

Should they stay faithful or try to translate the context?

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They should stay faithful by translating the context. It's a mistake to think that something which is more superficially similar to the original is necessarily more faithful to it; the faithful translation is just as easy a read as the original work, and doesn't get bogged down in awkwardness to protect some notion of accuracy.

 

[Beartruck]

What happened in this case? Care to elaborate?

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It's simple really: NISA does bad localizations. Whenever they're not introducing new bugs into the game, they write shit like this. See Ys VIII with its "Big Hole" for more examples.