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How do you feel about changing names in localizations?
- Thread starter Gold Arsene
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Not always, Disgaea games don't have bad translations and neither do the Atelier games for the most part. Ys 8 was clearly an absolute minimum effort job
If it's needed for a pun or wordplay with a meaning that gets lost otherwise, then change it. Don't do it just for doing it, but if there's a reason to change a name in localization, then by all means, do it.
The point of a good localization is to make the new players get the same experience as those who play in the original language do. Even if that means outright rewriting several parts and changing names to make it happen. The original text isn't sacred, only the experience the player gets is. It's not a translation, it's a localization. Ideally, no one should be able to tell that the game isn't originally in the new language unless they already knew.
The point of a good localization is to make the new players get the same experience as those who play in the original language do. Even if that means outright rewriting several parts and changing names to make it happen. The original text isn't sacred, only the experience the player gets is. It's not a translation, it's a localization. Ideally, no one should be able to tell that the game isn't originally in the new language unless they already knew.
Name changes don't usually bother me. As long as it's kept consistent throughout the media. For example Digimon can get really annoying with it's English releases because they keep changing the names of attacks and Digimon. Stuff like Crusadermon in Frontier being changed to LoadKnightmon in Data Squad and then back to Crusadermon in the Cyber Slueth games.
The Aigis change mentioned above as well is also a bit annoying. Her name has been Aigis in English releases for over a decade and now they are changing it back to Aegis to match the Japanese spelling. All I want is consistency across the franchise. Imagine how annoying it could be if they decide to change Teddie's name back to Kuma after a whole bunch of games and anime have used the Teddie name (something that happened with Digimon as well - Kumamon in Digimon World 3 was renamed to Bearmon in subsequent media because they decided to use Kumamon for a different Digimon in the Frontier anime)
The Aigis change mentioned above as well is also a bit annoying. Her name has been Aigis in English releases for over a decade and now they are changing it back to Aegis to match the Japanese spelling. All I want is consistency across the franchise. Imagine how annoying it could be if they decide to change Teddie's name back to Kuma after a whole bunch of games and anime have used the Teddie name (something that happened with Digimon as well - Kumamon in Digimon World 3 was renamed to Bearmon in subsequent media because they decided to use Kumamon for a different Digimon in the Frontier anime)
I had to do some googling to figure it out myself, but a character with the name Esty Gerhardt in Japanese was localized to Esty Dee in English for a cheap, nonsensical gag.
I lot of times I honestly think they're dumb when they exchange it with just another case of nonsense or sometimes I feel it's very belittling like somehow players are allergic about learning of other cultures to the extent they go to replace anything remotely Japanese. Sometimes they're really brilliant though, it's definitely an art I feel to know when you have to replace something and when you keep it as it is.
Phoenix Wright, or in Xenoblade 2 the exchanging Homura/Hikari for Pyra/Mythra are good examples of it being done well I feel like. But then I don't think I agree with the changes for the Xenoblade 2 blades/titans of Roc, Azurda and Dromarch when you keep Genbu just as it is. Just leave them as Suzaku, Seiryu and Byakko and let people learn about that bit of the four symbols connection. A lot of the Fire Emblem name changes seem very arbitrary as well.
Phoenix Wright, or in Xenoblade 2 the exchanging Homura/Hikari for Pyra/Mythra are good examples of it being done well I feel like. But then I don't think I agree with the changes for the Xenoblade 2 blades/titans of Roc, Azurda and Dromarch when you keep Genbu just as it is. Just leave them as Suzaku, Seiryu and Byakko and let people learn about that bit of the four symbols connection. A lot of the Fire Emblem name changes seem very arbitrary as well.
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Hana doesn't mean flower in English. Poppi is a name which evokes flowers for English-speakers regardless of their familiarity with Japanese.
But this is also in the "it's so bad, it's good" territory. Does not looking at this
And realizing it is a real thing that was localized, not make you laugh to some degree?
Should it have ever happened? No.
Did we get something oddly precious out of the affair? ...yes.
On that note, it does raise another issue about localization. The original Japanese Mavericks were called Irregulars. "Irregular" is Engrishy English to begin with, and Maverick sounds much better in actual English and carries the same meaning, so that's a good change. But what about the Irregular names as opposed to the Maverick names? For example...
Top: Irregular (Japanese), Bottom: Maverick (English)
Other examples: Spark Mandriller = Spark Mandrill, Sting Chameleo = Sting Chameleon
In Japanese, their names are highly stylized, but the meaning is still there. In English, they've been standardized a bit and lost some of their flavor.
(There are some exceptional cases where they sound clearly Japanese, with Duff McWhalen coincidentally being one of them: Tidal Makkoeen, which would translate in English to Tidal Whale by American standards or probably Tidal Whalen if you wanted to keep the stylized flair)
At the end of the day, I think this one comes down to taste. I prefer the stylized names in some ways, and I think I'd go with them if I had to make a choice. But the standardized Maverick names do sound a bit more palatable and easier to digest.
One of the top comments is this thread is Esty Dee from Atelier.
Off the top of my head I also remember Rhapsody for the DS, where they left in a game breaking bug that makes the postgame inaccessible.
Using Fire Emblem as an example, I think most of the time, the localisation team does a great job of adapting names.
A lot of people don't realise that Japanese developers have a different criteria to us when choosing names. So what they think sounds like a cool name might not work for us.
Also, I feel like there's a whole culture of people comparing Japanese and English names and just complaining solely because things were changed and not thinking of "why". Obviously because info is so much easier to get now.
Basically nobody complained about name changes in the first international Fire Emblem game(s), since they had nothing to compare to. Yet there were just as many name changes.
For instance, I can't imagine many people preferring the likes of Eliwod, Leyvan (okay, this one is cool), Rebacca, Eirik, Larchel, etc. compared to Eliwood, Raven, Rebecca, Eirika and L'Arachel.
A lot of people don't realise that Japanese developers have a different criteria to us when choosing names. So what they think sounds like a cool name might not work for us.
Also, I feel like there's a whole culture of people comparing Japanese and English names and just complaining solely because things were changed and not thinking of "why". Obviously because info is so much easier to get now.
Basically nobody complained about name changes in the first international Fire Emblem game(s), since they had nothing to compare to. Yet there were just as many name changes.
For instance, I can't imagine many people preferring the likes of Eliwod, Leyvan (okay, this one is cool), Rebacca, Eirik, Larchel, etc. compared to Eliwood, Raven, Rebecca, Eirika and L'Arachel.
Yeah, I have always hated hearing one name, but then reading something different.
I wish.
Dubtitles in general are annoying and the reason why I'm not unhappy if a game is released without english dub, that would only mess up the script for those of us who prefer to use the japanese language track.
Well, I don't mind it too much, but I feel OP about the Fates names. They still are japanese... and the characters are clearly based in Japan. I mean, is Kazahana going too far in comparison to Hana? I think it's a bit unnecessary, not worth getting angry for, but still silly.
It was necessary, if you care about the localisation being 'faithful'. Changing the names is oft more faithful than not doing so; but then again, I've lately seen (in general) that people give words themselves much more power than they actually have. Context, and intent is everything. Especially so in fiction, where the names of characters often are chosen more for their meaning and background, than how it sounds on tongue.
To address the OP, yes, I'm completely fine with changing names. Localising the meaning is much more important than the names being vocally the same as the source material. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of bad, dumb, and unnecessary changes, but it's generally a good thing.
Then again, unlike many Norwegians I'm also fine with and love the localised names in Harry Potter, so what do I know?
I think it's a great thing if it fits the creator's vision, and if it's done properly.
When the Pokemon anime was created, it likely wasn't intended by the creator to be a global phenomenon. Therefore, the creator might have named their main character Satoshi and made them eat rice balls, simply because it's familiar to their audience in Japan, and the Japanese audience wouldn't think twice about it. But an American watching the same content would think, "Oh, this Satoshi guy is clearly Japanese" and it might pull them out of the experience, or at least make them think about the product in ways the creator did not intend.
Therefore, localization (as opposed to just a translation) is applied to these products to help mitigate that, and I can appreciate that, if it helps present the content as it was actually intended.
That said, if you localize, you need to do it right. If a setting such as Japan is so ingrained in the product that it would be too expensive or non-worthwhile to fully localize, then you shouldn't do it, at least not so heavy handedly. Otherwise you'd get a Phoenix Wright Los Angeles situation, which may take the audience out of the experience more.
When the Pokemon anime was created, it likely wasn't intended by the creator to be a global phenomenon. Therefore, the creator might have named their main character Satoshi and made them eat rice balls, simply because it's familiar to their audience in Japan, and the Japanese audience wouldn't think twice about it. But an American watching the same content would think, "Oh, this Satoshi guy is clearly Japanese" and it might pull them out of the experience, or at least make them think about the product in ways the creator did not intend.
Therefore, localization (as opposed to just a translation) is applied to these products to help mitigate that, and I can appreciate that, if it helps present the content as it was actually intended.
That said, if you localize, you need to do it right. If a setting such as Japan is so ingrained in the product that it would be too expensive or non-worthwhile to fully localize, then you shouldn't do it, at least not so heavy handedly. Otherwise you'd get a Phoenix Wright Los Angeles situation, which may take the audience out of the experience more.
Normally I dislike this unless the original name is too cumbersome or relies upon a pun that doesn't translate.
Phoenix Wright having entirely different names for everyone is fine because it fits the games' strange universe. A situation where Persona 4's Chie is renamed Cathy is not so good.
You get into some compromise situations, like that one character from the Phoenix Wright x Layton spinoff whose entire joke rests on having a long, complicated name.
Phoenix Wright having entirely different names for everyone is fine because it fits the games' strange universe. A situation where Persona 4's Chie is renamed Cathy is not so good.
You get into some compromise situations, like that one character from the Phoenix Wright x Layton spinoff whose entire joke rests on having a long, complicated name.
That's fair. I think some people covered this better already, but I'll just give my two cents.
In Hana and Hayato's case, there are too many syllables and the original names are a bit complex for average English readers. I still have to think when writing Tsukuyomi. Kaze's name also falls under this.
For Subaki, we do have words that begin with Ts, but they are still loan words, I believe. In most cases, you wouldn't see Ts in English so they just dropped the T to make it easier. Yeah, Hoshido is based on Japan, but they still need to consider the audience is English.
Those are the easy ones. I think there are some names that you really have to open your mind, haha. Like what was Effie's Japanese name? Oh, right, Elfie. I suppose that sounded too quaint for a powerhouse like herself.
OP
OP
I guess I just don't see why they feel the need to dumb it down then. Persona does just fine keeping all the Japanese names and such.
Please note that it doesn't upset me, I just find it unnecessary in those cases. But again that's just me.
It depends on the game. In Phoenix Wright for example, I'm fine with it because it allows for puns relevant to the story. In Yakuza, I wouldn't want characters named John and Jennifer because the game is ostensibly set in Japan with japanese people.
The modified name needs to serve a purpose and not be incompatible with the setting.
The modified name needs to serve a purpose and not be incompatible with the setting.
The X5 localization was purposefully made to reflect names from Guns n Roses because they were the translator's husband's favorite band. For reference, the GnR drummer was known as "Duff" McKagan. I think that's a pretty blatant abuse of power and it's sad Capcom USA cared so little for the franchise they let it go through. It's also a little strange that an adult man's favorite band is GnR, though I also look back on them fondly.But this is also in the "it's so bad, it's good" territory. Does not looking at this
And realizing it is a real thing that was localized, not make you laugh to some degree?
Should it have ever happened? No.
Did we get something oddly precious out of the affair? ...yes.
On that note, it does raise another issue about localization. The original Japanese Mavericks were called Irregulars. "Irregular" is Engrishy English to begin with, and Maverick sounds much better in actual English and carries the same meaning, so that's a good change. But what about the Irregular names as opposed to the Maverick names? For example...
Top: Irregular (Japanese), Bottom: Maverick (English)
Other examples: Spark Mandriller = Spark Mandrill, Sting Chameleo = Sting Chameleon
In Japanese, their names are highly stylized, but the meaning is still there. In English, they've been standardized a bit and lost some of their flavor.
(There are some exceptional cases where they sound clearly Japanese, with Duff McWhalen coincidentally being one of them: Tidal Makkoeen, which would translate in English to Tidal Whale by American standards or probably Tidal Whalen if you wanted to keep the stylized flair)
At the end of the day, I think this one comes down to taste. I prefer the stylized names in some ways, and I think I'd go with them if I had to make a choice. But the standardized Maverick names do sound a bit more palatable and easier to digest.
They're divorced now. I'm not saying these 2 things are related.
Haha, that's fine. There are two sides to every coin.
For what it's worth, I think Fire Emblem's target audience is probably younger than Persona's. Plus Persona and SMT are literally in Japan, so they can't really change much.
If anything, I would compare with any spell, monster or Persona names that might have changed. Since those aren't always tied down to the game's setting.
This is purely speculation on my part, but perhaps the intended audience has some effect on the decisions. Let's consider Persona 4 and Fire Emblem Fates. P4 is set in Japan and Hoshido is inspired by Japan. Looking at ESRB ratings however, P4 is rated M, while Fates is rated T. Because Fates is more likely to be played by a younger audience, there would be an incentive to simplify the names while maintaining the Japanese feel.
Unlike most of the other Guns 'N' Roses boss names, that one goes fully into so bad it's good territory. The others were Squid Adler, Grizzly Slash, Axle the Red, Izzy Glow, and Dark Dizzy.
She's called Poppi, not Poppy though. She's called Poppi in my Italian version of the game even though there is no flower called Poppi in Italy. Why didn't they call her Papavero in Italian? They changed blades to gladius and driver to ductor so might as well Italianize those Americanized names, no?
Name changes, with a few exception for explicit puns purposes, are never valid in my opinion. Jack Black isn't Giacomo Nero in Italy. I'm going to blow your heads here, but Captain Jack Sparrow in Italy is Capitan Jack Sparrow! Strangely it isn't localized to become Capitan Giacomo Passero.
Changing names is an old practice that needs to die.
This reads as somewhat disingenuous. The altered spelling didn't change the fact that her name immediately brought to mind poppies when I was introduced to her in XC2. I'll refrain from commenting on the particulars of the Italian localization because I have little knowledge of Italian or the Italian version of XC2.
Translations are hard. I hate to be that person, but it is the truth.
You can do the literal translation where it loses its meaning and feels odd to the general foriegn audience (i remember early subs Ranma 1/2 translated honorifics and would confuse me as a kid).
You can leave it in romanji and force the person to figure it out itself (I believe the Clannad visual novel does this and includes a huge compedium to dive deep in the stuff.).
You can try your best to translate the pun/context to a way that makes sense for the new foreign audience (It was years ago, but 8-4 play podcast interviewed one of the translators for Mother 2. There is also a huge book on Fangamer about the translation as well.)
There are translations that do none of these as well and there could be valid cultural reasons for them. There could be different requirements for ratings boards in different countries. Or maybe possibly it could be an awful translation for not a single valid reason ever ?
The reality is that the more pure the translation is, the more work is required by the audience to even understand it. If you want the purest form, you should just play it in that original form.
You can do the literal translation where it loses its meaning and feels odd to the general foriegn audience (i remember early subs Ranma 1/2 translated honorifics and would confuse me as a kid).
You can leave it in romanji and force the person to figure it out itself (I believe the Clannad visual novel does this and includes a huge compedium to dive deep in the stuff.).
You can try your best to translate the pun/context to a way that makes sense for the new foreign audience (It was years ago, but 8-4 play podcast interviewed one of the translators for Mother 2. There is also a huge book on Fangamer about the translation as well.)
There are translations that do none of these as well and there could be valid cultural reasons for them. There could be different requirements for ratings boards in different countries. Or maybe possibly it could be an awful translation for not a single valid reason ever ?
The reality is that the more pure the translation is, the more work is required by the audience to even understand it. If you want the purest form, you should just play it in that original form.
Often pointless, but for the most part it doesn't bother me.
I did recently wonder why in Tales of Hearts R, Bamco changed the main character's name from 'Shingu' to 'Kor' when they localised it though. Why bother? Especially since none of the other names seemed to be changed.
I did recently wonder why in Tales of Hearts R, Bamco changed the main character's name from 'Shingu' to 'Kor' when they localised it though. Why bother? Especially since none of the other names seemed to be changed.
Yeah, Kor was an awful choice. Shing is a weird name, but without a dub Kor felt even weirder. There actually were a few other changes names though IIRC- Gall was originally Galado I believe.
Oh yes. I'll never forget this. This one example where name changing is objectively worst
Never forget.
I'm fine with it when you're translating a pun or other cases where name holds some secondary meaning which doesn't translate well, but changing names for the sake of making them sound less foreign is bad. Especially when the setting is Japan or clearly Japan-inspired. Though I don't mind shortening of names, (Kazahana>Hana), that keeps the name similar enough while making it easier to remember/pronounce for english audiences. Okami did the same thing with a lot of its characters (Kushinada>Kushi, etc.)
I honestly have a lot of trouble with a lot of Japanese names in games. Some simpler ones are ok but when a game has a name like Kazahana I'll forget it consistently through the entire game I usually work around this by giving characters weird nicknames that sort of sound like their originals. Case in point I could never remember Teostra in Monster Hunter until I started calling him Tostino's pizza rolls.
So anyway what I'm getting at is I actually appreciate localized names.
So anyway what I'm getting at is I actually appreciate localized names.
I'd say it's necessary in games with a lot of japanese names that are puns, but that don't take place in a strictly japanese context. Thought it was a good call in XBC2 and it's clearly necessary in stuff like Pokemon and Ace Attorney... Though the latter is a case of way heavier localization that is bound to not sit well with a lot of folks, but personally I love it.
Agreed. I dont think name changes are something that bothers me after coming off of Xenoblade 2. I like the names of the characters and their ties to different mythos. I fully understand why people dont like it when they are listening to subs tho. That really does suck.
What is more of an issue with Fire Emblem though, is how the localizations changed up characters' personalities such as Henry and Effie. That I do not condone at all. :/
I don't like it but then you get names like mahanonunosuke and think "John would've been ok here"
Often names are simplified in order to make them more distinct from each other for non-Japanese speakers. This is my headcanon, anyway.
Think of how many Japanese names are only a few syllables different from each other.
Think of how many Japanese names are only a few syllables different from each other.
In Yakuza 1, 2 and 3 they changed Kiryu's foster father name from Shintaro Kazama to Shintaro Fuma. Characters say Kazama but subtitles Fuma. Dumb decision that since Yakuza 4 was backpedaled changing it back to Kazama.
This Fuma shit is so irritating for me it downplays enjoyment of the classics.
This Fuma shit is so irritating for me it downplays enjoyment of the classics.
I need to go hunt some more Hororohoruru materials.I dunno, do you think "Freezer", "Thunder", and "Fire" are great names worth keeping?
When playing with the original vocal track hearing one name/thing while the text says otherwise can be distracting an take ya outta the moment as your brain has an "oh the localization changed this" moment. Not really great for games where you're supposed ta be heavily invested in the story/characters.
pokemon with the original japanese names would be a pain
localizations are not the worst thing in gaming because we had some bad examples in the past or because some diehard anime fans got angry they dropped the honorifics OH MY GOD SACRILEGE
localizations are not the worst thing in gaming because we had some bad examples in the past or because some diehard anime fans got angry they dropped the honorifics OH MY GOD SACRILEGE
Another thing that recently happened that made me make this topic was the localization involving my favorite Persona character.
In Japan her name is Aegis, but in every single Persona game to feature her up to this point it was changed to Aigis.
Except when she was announced as DLC for Blazblue Cross Tag Battle this happend.
Now it's currenty unknown if this is just for Blazblue:TAG or if it'll be in all future appearances, but changing it back after all this time is just jarring.
I never get why she was "Aigis" to begin with.
And I highly doubt ASW has a say in if it's Aigis in future Atlus games or not. It's probably just them talking about future ASW games.
Xenoblade 2's localization is pretty bad: you have this guy who wears literally a Samurai armor and they changed his name to sound less Japanese for some reason. You also have blades that were designed based on myths like Byakko and Susaku that also appear in Shin Megami Tensei games and they changed their names too.
Terrible decision imo.
Terrible decision imo.
