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Do you enjoy AI rubber banding in racing games?

  • Rubber band AI is usually fun and I love it in racing games

    Votes: 17 3.3%
  • Rubber band AI usually sucks and I don't want it in racing games

    Votes: 381 74.9%
  • Rubber band AI sometimes sucks, but I feel it is necessary in racing games

    Votes: 111 21.8%

  • Total voters
    509

lexony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,518
I don't know if Rubber Banding really exits or how it works in MK8. But I think a lot of "unfair" situations are because of the randomness of the game. And when a computer drives skillfully or does good decisions with their Items you will always feel that it is cheating.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,110
I think you need something to keep things interesting in a kart racer in particular, you can have cheesy CPU antics that aren't so funny for how obviously silly it is like Mario Kart 64, but in general a bit of rubberbanding wont go amiss for me, if anything the CPU in MK8 put up so little resistance on hard that I always felt it could've done a bit more.

But in a purely skill focused racer? nah you go without outside of like a super difficulty level designed to be rubber-riffic

Then you have oddities like Crash which can be both and opts for that "CPU rubberband a set time, not the player" approach which I'm mixed on.
 

Mazzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,420
Brazil
Ideally the game should have better systems than just giving the AI a hidden advantage when it is behind. If suddenly the AI is doing better and catching up, the player expects an in game explanation.
 
Feb 9, 2019
2,489
Gacha Hell
Loathe it. Just have different difficulty levels with AI racers performing accordingly. The GDQ example is particularly annoying - the player sets the freaking world record and the AI still beats them? Screw that.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,227
Rubber banding is fucking garbage and makes me feel like shit no matter how well I play. CPU racers should be using the advanced techniques I use to keep up, not being granted an infinite speed boost and infinite player-destroying weapons. It's not fun and makes playing Grand Prix an absolute chore.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,981
Cornfields
Rubber banding is fucking garbage and makes me feel like shit no matter how well I play. CPU racers should be using the advanced techniques I use to keep up, not being granted an infinite speed boost and infinite player-destroying weapons. It's not fun and makes playing Grand Prix an absolute chore.
CTR don't have traditional rubberbanding. Difficulty determines the time an AI should take to finish a race depending on the track. Damaging another racer then slightly delays the time for them to finish the race.

Just did a quick example on hard mode where I still get a big lead on the other racers.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,285
I get why it's implemented, but that's what difficulty settings are for.

In kart racers, i get that its too have fun, but in sims and more realistic racers where you have no way to combat it ? fuck that shit
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
I think I hate it. The only worse feeling than being in first all by your lonesome for the entire race is knowing you should be like that but then having cars just randomly show up every few seconds before you leave them in your dust.

This is why MKWii is my least favorite, it was awful in that one
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
Problem is, why should developers make an AI that is capable of keeping up with the players when they can just save resources and time and add rubberbanding?
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,892
I think it is largely dumb. However, I bet there are some more subtle implementations that would work well. So, my official opinion is that if it is noticeable then it is bad.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,980
But that's a general game design problem then. Unless it's a serious racing or simulation game, which is more like concentrated labor culminating in exhilarating victory (if it's a victory), a racing game should strive to be a fun experience during the race as well. And pulling so far ahead as to have no threat of losing, or making a mistake early on and having no hope of victory, is kind of not exactly fun.
Which is why we should have difficulty settings or even dynamic-difficulty, but adjusted outside the race (something the Forza series does btw, if only it would stop with in-race rubber-banding ...). Inside the race, the opponents shouldn't wait for me if I'm messing up, and shouldn't do magical catch-up if I slaughter them. But yeah, between races, feel free to pimp (or gimp) their cars.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,406
California
Rubberbanding is antithetical to the very concept of racing.
Yup, regardless if it's "arcade-y" or not. The AI racers should be developed around skill. In more advanced races, the AI should "mess up" less. Like not taking turns as well as they should, to perfect lines with maybe one exception. With a cart racer that could mean knowing when to use a shield at the right time or when to get rid of a power up they don't want.
 

Cipher Peon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,823
I have absolutely no opinion on it. I get why it's there and why people don't like it but *shrugs*

At the end of the day, it is a net zero on my overall enjoyment.
 

Patriiick

Member
Oct 31, 2018
5,777
Grimsby, GB
Fucking hate it. I actually think I pretty much stopped playing arcade racers after the first NFS Hot Pursuit when I realised the rubber banding was so aggressive. What's the point in me using any skill if the AI can just teleport right up to my position on the last lap and then steam past meto take the win?
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,349
As long as they don't get launch-era Dangerous Driving-style supersonic speed boosts to zoom past you by 20 seconds, it's fine.
 

Maturin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
Europe
I'm fine with other vehicles driving more aggressively when they fall behind or easing up when they get too far ahead, as long as they're not bypassing the rules of the game.

Agree with this. A racing game with smart drivers who vary their aggressiveness rather than having a static skill level is good. It's when they are magically gifted another 100HP that's the problem.
 

Raonak

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,170
I think rubber banding is a bad mechanic in it's most basic form.

I understand the need to make the race more exciting, but enemies should absolutely not be able to win a race from it.
Atleast develop it in a way that makes sure that rubber banding gets turned off in the final lap or something.
 

Mzo

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,165
I hate rubber banding. For a racing game done right, look at F-Zero GX. The same AI doesn't win every race, and there's no rubber banding as far as I could see.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
Its silly especially for single player, if I'm good enough to destroy the computer players why does it matter to the devs who implement said rubbber banding.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,622
I hate it with a passion. I feel it punishes the player for doing too well. If I get that huge of a lead let me have it, I worked for it
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,696
Danbury, CT, USA
I fucking hate it, if I'm whipping the floor on a race let continue doing so. I guess that that's one of the reasons why I liked Gran Turismo 3 so much when I play it as the better you were the better you did. Oh were able to overpass the group that was behind on your 20th lap on the endurance? Good.

I still remember playing Mario Kart 64, taking all the shortcuts on different tracks just to see the opponents right behind me, that pissed me off so much at the time, so yeah I hate it, and no argument for its use is valid for me.
 

Teppic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
I like the kind of rubber banding that works like the items in Mario Kart. If you are far back you get better ones, etc. Otherwise I really dislike it.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
Rubberbanding is so much fun! I love to repeat races I'd already won but then the CPU opponent just kind of warped past me, it adds a lot to the replayability! Especially in Mario Kart, Nintengods can't do no wrong!
I still like MK, but when you are on the last race of a cup and this shit ruins your whole result…
 

Streets of Rage

Alt account
Banned
Jun 26, 2019
51
It's an instant turn-off for me. Nothing is worse than to know no matter how much you deserved the top pole position, the rubber band AI is going to take it from you.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876
I've made several threads over the years on this particular subject. It is probably my least favorite device in gaming, period. If you're better than the AI you should win, no questions asked. I don't need you artificially making the game more difficult in order to stretch more "value" or fun out of your game. Maybe design the game in a difficult but fair fashion then?

Evo studios was horrendous about this stuff. Motorstorm was one of my favorite arcade racers of all time. The amount of rubber band AI is ridiculous, particularly in pacific rift. Here's the thing that really drove me nuts. You could finish a race in 3:00 minutes (just a random number for the example) and finish 3rd, however if you rarely boosted throughout the level and played it slow, you could finish with 3:45 minutes and win. The AI would only boost if you boosted, they would only do well if you did well. This is NOT good game design. It seems like they would rather cheat the system and therefore the player, in order to get more play out of their game and make it more "challenging". It wasn't more challenging, it doesn't encourage getting better at the game, instead you have to learn to cheat the game to win.

Another example of motorstorm bullshit. In pacific Rift the expert races towards the end got insanely difficult. One of the staples of motorstorm was the multiple paths you could take. I forget the name of the track, but there was one where you could take the high ground and go over a bridge, or you could go low which would lead to you going off a jump over a ravine. The AI would almost always take the low level to go over the jump. You could see the jump below from the bridge above. If you went over the bridge up top and didn't boost or took it slow, the AI would just crawl their way off the jump and fall into the ravine. Horrible horrible game design, how is that fun for anybody?
 

Sirhc

Hasn't made a thread yet. Shame me.
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,051
That poll is like a slam dunk no, then you lead off talking about Kart Racers which are a whole separate ball game then normal racing games.

If your racing game has items, yes do rubberbanding cause it's needed due to rng and its all about fun, but for more solid racing games where skill is king rubberbanding should be a criminal offense.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
CTR don't have traditional rubberbanding. Difficulty determines the time an AI should take to finish a race depending on the track. Damaging another racer then slightly delays the time for them to finish the race.

Just did a quick example on hard mode where I still get a big lead on the other racers.

I like how even on hard if I drive well I can get quite ahead of the AI.
 

the androgyne

Member
Oct 30, 2017
128
I hate rubber banding. For a racing game done right, look at F-Zero GX. The same AI doesn't win every race, and there's no rubber banding as far as I could see.

F-Zero can mask it very well because there are so many other racers and a whole load of destruction that can add to the variance of each race. But check out this no boost run through master difficulty. The CPU doesnt push nearly as hard as they do when you're boosting. This is rubber banding done right though, making the game challenging but beatable for varied skill level players! Playing around with boosts (and where you boost) can also make completing the infamous Chapter 7 much easier too.

 
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