How do you justify the use of illicit drugs considering the supply chain?

[legend166]

So I've been following the El Chapo case recently and I've been thinking about the question of drug use and the morality thereof. Obviously this board is generally pro-legalisation, as is most of the progressive side of politics and would probably classify drug use itself as an amoral action. I don't want this topic to be about the legalisation of drugs because it's a future hypothetical. My question is about the morality of using illegal drugs (so we can probably exclude marijuana from this discussion now although it certain fits historically) knowing that it's very likely that the money you've used to purchase it will fund violence and despicable crimes.

So just to get back to El Chapo, as a summary of his crimes (just from Wiki):

The court alleged that Guzmán used professional assassins to carry out "hundreds of acts of violence, including murders, assaults, kidnappings, assassinations and acts of torture".

Click to shrink...

They also had evidence that he would pay $5,000 for to get access to 13 year old girls, and you can probably figure out the rest. It's probably a reasonable assumption that this kind of behaviour isn't limited to El Chapo and his cartel.

There's always a lot of discussion around responsible sourcing of goods and a lot of focus on companies that are seen to be running dodgy supply chains. Boycotts happen, pressure is put on to change, etc. Is it enough to just say "We should legalise/de-criminalise drugs because it will hurt cartels" (discussion for a different topic)? Shouldn't it be heavily, heavily discouraged just based on what it's funding?

 

[Bernie Bernbaum]

Your average drug user isn't thinking about these things - they just want that high.

Same as when a 9 year old gets a cheeseburger from McDonalds. They're not thinking about the abattoir.

 

[see5harp]

The same way I justify buying a white tee from target or buy an iPhone.

 

[Masoyama]

You can find Weed, Psilocybin, Ecstasy and a few others you can easily find from reputable sources in the US.

 

[WhoTurgled]

there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

 

[Powdered Egg]

Drug users ain't the problem. It's politicians who banned them in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

My question is about the morality of using illegal drugs (so we can probably exclude marijuana from this discussion now although it certain fits historically) knowing that it's very likely that the money you've used to purchase it will fund violence and despicable crimes.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I already pay taxes in America so..

 

[Goldenroad]

there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

Click to shrink...

At least drugs bring people some amount of pleasure.

 

[FUME5]

Hear that druggies? It's all your fault!

 

[TheBeardedOne]

Your average drug user isn't thinking about these things - they just want that high.

Same as when a 9 year old gets a cheeseburger from McDonalds. They're not thinking about the abattoir.

Click to shrink...

Exactly

When I did them they made me feel good. That's all I thought about...at first. Then I felt shame and stopped.

 

[curiouscharles]

Drug users ain't the problem. It's politicians who banned them in the first place.

Click to shrink...

And we are done here.

I love doing drugs, and it's not my fault the chain of supply is fucked (although it does give me some pause).

 

[Budi]

My own use or someone else's? I feel people are victims of circumstances, so I don't tend to blame them. On personal level, I don't really use anything that might come from organized crime from Russia.

 

[Kahoots]

Creates armies of child soldiers too.

There is no moral justification so I don't.

 

[Deleted member 197]

People do not think about it or think their contributions are minuscule so it doesn't matter. (Which i mean it is kinda right)

 

[Heromanz]

The same reason why you use a phone that was probably made in China

 

[Daniel Westlake]

I don't give a fuck, that's how. Do you get your smartphone locally and sustainably sourced, no? Screw off then.

 

[picklesthefirecat]

The most common source of research chemicals is Canada.

I guess that means you're supporting, tangentially, Big Hockey, which is probably worse.

 

[Amnesty]

there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

Click to shrink...

Nothing else needs to be said really.

 

[Fisty]

If drugs were legal they wouldnt need to come through these supply chains. People have to deal with this bullshit because of this system that the government created

 

[Kahoots]

I don't give a fuck, that's how. Do you get your smartphone locally and sustainably sourced, no? Screw off then.

Click to shrink...

Fair enough you don't give a fuck about the violence you're funding. But why draw the comical false equivalency?

 

[Strangelove_77]

It's a blip compared to all the other terrible shit I've unwillingly been a part of because of what I purchase.
It's harsh to say, but.....I just don't care.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

Low paying factory work = being tortured while your family is sold into sexual slavery

 

[Socivol]

It's not hard to think not think about it when you're high as fuck.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

By participatimg in the process to decriminalize and legalize drug use. Marijuana, specifically. And it happened!

 

[Soundscream]

By participatimg in the process to decriminalize and legalize drug use. Marijuana, specifically. And it happened!

Click to shrink...

LOL

 

[PanickyFool]

Low paying factory work = being tortured while your family is sold into sexual slavery

Click to shrink...

People will go through a whole host of rationalizations, false equivalencies, and negotiations to convince themselves that their hobby causing a higher rate of human suffering is normal or only the fault of laws and their demand for it under current legal regimes is not a cause.

 

[picklesthefirecat]

Fair enough you don't give a fuck about the violence you're funding. But why draw the comical false equivalency?

Click to shrink...

Slave labor and child soldiers are both prominent features in the smartphone supply chain prior to physical assembly, which has its own host of issues. No need to diminish one issue in favor of the other, here.

 

[modoversus]

LOL at the false equivalence of purchasing a goods made in China versus the ultra violent/slavery/murderous drug trade of addictive substances.

Just keep buying your drugs while our people die for your pleasure.

 

[Kurdel]

I blame the war on drugs and the obession with criminalizing drugs for things escalating this much.

Just decriminalise it all so it can be sourced responsably.

Since weed is legal here in Canada I get great stuff (when I can) and I can trust it's source, it's great.

 

[Kahoots]

Slave labor and child soldiers are both prominent features in the smartphone supply chain prior to physical assembly, which has its own host of issues. No need to diminish one issue in favor of the other, here.

Click to shrink...

Oh ok, I need education then. Where does the smart phone part supply chain line create child soldiers?

 

[Grym]

I just grow it myself

 

[bad poster]

My question is about the morality of using illegal drugs (so we can probably exclude marijuana from this discussion now although it certain fits historically) knowing that it's very likely that the money you've used to purchase it will fund violence and despicable crimes.

Click to shrink...

couldn't you ask the same thing about paying taxes

 

[Masoyama]

Oh ok, I need education then. Where does the smart phone part supply chain line create child soldiers?

Click to shrink...

Conflict minerals are mined in Congo where child soldiers are used. The minerals are smuggled into east Africa where they are re-branded and laundered before exporting to Asia. An intermediary then sells the laundered minerals to a factory that uses the cheaply obtained raw materials to underbid their competition and manufacture phones or whatever.

 

[MazeHaze]

Threads like these always just seem like a thinly veiled excuse to smugly throw shade at people who use drugs, and flaunt some sort of imagined moral superiority.

A better reason to not use certain drugs is that there's fentanyl in everything right now and a lot of people are dieing.

 

[picklesthefirecat]

Oh ok, I need education then. Where does the smart phone part supply chain line create child soldiers?

Click to shrink...

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/06/ethical-smartphone-conscious-consumption/

Devices vary, but your average smartphone may use more than 60 different metals. Many of them are rare earth metals, so-called because they're available in smaller quantities than many other metals, if not genuinely rare.

Often, these substances are found in conflict zones, such as the Democratic Republic of Congo. Both there and in the surrounding region, the proceeds from mining, which often uses child and/or slave labor, have been used to finance its brutal civil war. Since 2014, the US Dodd-Frank Act has stipulated that a company must disclose if its products use materials from conflict zones.

Click to shrink...

https://bigthink.com/matt-davis/to-make-a-smartphone-lose-your-ethics

However, with a supply chain this large and complex, it is easy to either overlook or ignore the major ethical concerns related to how smartphones are built. For example, 60% of the world's cobalt supply comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), much of it mined by the estimated 40,000 child laborers in that country. According to the U.S. Department of Labor, children in the DRC engage "in the forced mining of gold, tin ore (cassiterite), tantalum ore (coltan), and tungsten ore (wolframite)," and are used "in armed conflict, sometimes as a result of forcible recruitment or abduction by non-state armed groups." Many mines in the DRC are controlled by militias who use children as laborers to fund their activities in the region. The minerals sold by these groups find their way into the smartphones, batteries, and other electrical devices that most of us use on a daily basis.

Click to shrink...

It is impossible to source a smartphone while safely saying it did not involve the use of slave labor or child soldiers at any point in the supply chain, man.

 

[Dark Knight]

Your average drug user isn't thinking about these things - they just want that high.

Click to shrink...

 

[Slappy White]

I blame the war on drugs and the obession with criminalizing drugs for things escalating this much.

Just decriminalise it all so it can be sourced responsably.

Since weed is legal here in Canada I get great stuff (when I can) and I can trust it's source, it's great.

Click to shrink...

100% this. Except I'm in Illinois and my brother has the medicinal card so I can get really great stuff.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Conflict minerals are mined in Congo where child soldiers are used. The minerals are smuggled into east Africa where they are re-branded and laundered before exporting to Asia. An intermediary then sells the laundered minerals to a factory that uses the cheaply obtained raw materials to underbid their competition and manufacture phones or whatever.

Click to shrink...

I would like to remind the people visiting this video game forum that these conflicts are regularly referred to as "The Playstation Wars"

 

[Kurdel]

Threads like these always just seem like a thinly veiled excuse to smugly throw shade at people who use drugs, and flaunt some sort of imagined moral superiority.

A better reason to not use certain drugs is that there's fentanyl in everything right now and a lot of people are dieing.

Click to shrink...

Bingo.

 

[Punjabi_Hitman]

That's why legalization, creating a supply chain funded and overseen by a heavily scrutinized organization, keeping track of adicts and being able to offer help everytime they buy, and marketing against buying illegally, by advertising what people are funding their money with constantly is a better solution than just waisting resources on dirty corrupt enforcement that has shown for a century to do absolutely nothing.

It's time to think outside the box for solutions, not rely on same useless tactics.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Threads like these always just seem like a thinly veiled excuse to smugly throw shade at people who use drugs, and flaunt some sort of imagined moral superiority.

Click to shrink...

I think like any discussion of where our money ends up, it's a valid topic. It's an especially interesting one here, where talking about a pirated NES rom might catch you a wave of criticism regarding the morality of piracy (and a ban) while discussing your favourite illegal drug generally doesn't result in either.

It's a side to the illegal drug discussion that probably doesn't come up as often as it should. I hear far, far more mentions of the evils of the smartphone industry here than I do about the drug trade.

 

[Aureon]

There is no ethical consumption in capitalism.
You are not responsible for the entire supply chain, and if you want to have a positive effect, boycotts are a pretty shitty way.
Vote and campaign on enforcing standards instead. Donate to those causes.

 

[onadesertedisland]

there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

Click to shrink...

Truth.

 

[Kasai]

I mean, I get my weed from reputable sources.

It just so happens that people get it for me, and there aren't any dispensaries in my state.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The black market is not caused by immoral behavior, it's caused by a societal fault to recognize that certain behaviors are not eliminated by prohibition. Tax and regulate.

 

[BLEEN]

You can find Weed, Psilocybin, Ecstasy and a few others you can easily find from reputable sources in the US.

Click to shrink...

Yep. Way more stuff than that too. Ketamine, MDMA, even LSD.

Not everything is cocaine and heroin.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Foxconn in China makes your Playstations. If you give up gaming, phones, and monitors, I'll give up weed OP.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

The black market is not caused by immoral behavior, it's caused by a societal fault to recognize that certain behaviors are not eliminated by prohibition. Tax and regulate.

Click to shrink...

There are still black markets for things that are both taxed and regulated. Hell in the Canadian legalization thread there were people saying the legal stuff was too expensive and would stick with their black market dealers.

 

[TheYanger]

MDMA is made right here in the us of a. I'm good.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

Click to shrink...

This is the most succinct answer, and pretty much covers the broad strokes.

Most drug users aren't aware of the harms caused by the supply chain for drugs, and most don't want to know more than they have to, which is true of the consumption of most goods. Personally you can abstain from consumption of illegal drugs (that's what I choose to do) but you should recognize that the vast majority of illicit drugs are not inherently harmful to produce, and the reason the supply chain creates so much harm is due to the substances being outlawed. That's why most progressives advocate for some manner of legalization or decriminalization, because ultimately the state is responsible for creating a black market.

Also addiction is a disease, and addicts need to be treated. Shaming or punishing them because the goods they consume are developed through harmful methods is ineffective and just causes more harm.