How do you think Gamefreak/Nintendo will make the Gen 8 Pokemon games appealing to Gen 1 fans?

Oct 25, 2017
1,782
Every game Gen 6 onwards (XY, ORAS, SM, USUM) has suffered in quality because of the pandering. Baby tier difficulty, constant handholding, barely any exploration and optional routes, and mediocre post games. And instead of standing on their own merits and being original, there’s constant references and callbacks to Kanto.

Generations 3-5 (RSE, DPPt, BWBW2) are the best games in the series because they don’t regurgitate the same things we’ve already seen and experienced in the first generation of Pokémon. And the last time GameFreak released a great Pokémon game with Kanto in it was HGSS, where they put in serious effort into the quality of the game, something I can’t say about LGPE.
Its interesting. Every recent pokemon game (since XY) has had both increased callback material to Gen 1 and also more handholding and less difficulty. Why are they constantly playing up the Gen 1 angle to pander to the audience who consist of people likely in their late 20s to early 30s yet ALSO dumbing the games themselves down for kids? It honestly doesnt make sense to me.
 
Nov 25, 2017
1,267
They have been doing that every year since gen 2 Lol. We've had a ton of gen 1 remakes and gen 1 presence, so much that people are getting tired of it.

More evolutions and alternate forms for gen 1 Pokemon as well as more presence of gen 1 in the regional Pokedex is the easiest thing they can do.
 
Nov 25, 2017
1,267
Its interesting. Every recent pokemon game (since XY) has had both increased callback material to Gen 1 and also more handholding and less difficulty. Why are they constantly playing up the Gen 1 angle to pander to the audience who consist of people likely in their late 20s to early 30s yet ALSO dumbing the games themselves down for kids? It honestly doesnt make sense to me.
Even before that. Gen 1 always had a presence after gen 2.

Pokemon G/S/C, Pokemon FR/LG, Pokemon HG/SL, Gen 1 megaforms, Gen 1 alolan forms, always having gen 1 legendary Pokemon available in virtually every game, Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee. No offense to the OP, but asking how more gen 1 presence can be made is almost insulting to Pokemon gamers since gen 1 has always been pandered to. Maybe he hasn't played since gen 1. I dunno
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,774
At this point Gen 1 fans/the 151 have already gotten so much in the recent years that I don't know what they can do to make them feel more welcome.

Just make a good game with ambition. Sun and Moon were steps in the right direction and I hope Gen 8 continues that while also fixing some of it's issues namely it's aggressive tutorialization and smaller post games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
Every game Gen 6 onwards (XY, ORAS, SM, USUM) has suffered in quality because of the pandering. Baby tier difficulty, constant handholding, barely any exploration and optional routes, and mediocre post games. And instead of standing on their own merits and being original, there’s constant references and callbacks to Kanto.

Generations 3-5 (RSE, DPPt, BWBW2) are the best games in the series because they don’t regurgitate the same things we’ve already seen and experienced in the first generation of Pokémon. And the last time GameFreak released a great Pokémon game with Kanto in it was HGSS, where they put in serious effort into the quality of the game, something I can’t say about LGPE.
I don't see how you can blame the difficulty, for instance, on pandering and not just them trying to make a super popular franchise more accessible. It just looks like you're willing to lump any complaint in with pandering even if it has nothing to do with it.

I don't agree those are the best (albeit great games) and in turn I don't agree with the original premise of your question earlier.
 

Kyros

Banned
Member
Sep 1, 2018
730
A year immediately after Let's Go? Without any other game?
Wouldn't it be the most resource efficient course of action? Same region, couple more gens of Pokemon brought over in HD quality (maybe further than Gen 3 this time?), Sevii Islands added, and the "difficulty" and mechanics of the previous games brought back.

Sounds like the best possible game Gamefreak could make, whilst giving them another year to polish Gen 8 to a mirror sheen.

Gen 1 fans are the worst.

Two gems of pandering and an entire game just for you and you still want more at the expense of everything else.
Well sure, I didn't care much for XY or SuMo, and Let's Go PE is only getting close but quite there yet.

And those past two gens weren't pandering as much as the more marketable Pokemon being brought back. Those are gonna keep coming back ad infinitum, simply because they sell games and merchandise.

FRLG were bad, bland, featureless games back when they were new. Do ya really think a proper do-over'd make 'em good?
There isn't much to improve aside from implementing the physical/special split, some quality of life features, and maybe adding some extra islands to host Pokemon from later gens.
 
Oct 29, 2017
972
I don't see how you can blame the difficulty, for instance, on pandering and not just them trying to make a super popular franchise more accessible. It just looks like you're willing to lump any complaint in with pandering even if it has nothing to do with it.

I don't agree those are the best (albeit great games) and in turn I don't agree with the original premise of your question earlier.
Well, if the series continues it’s path set by X and Y, at least there’s someone that will enjoy the watered down experience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,503
Wouldn't it be the most resource efficient course of action? Same region, couple more gens of Pokemon brought over in HD quality (maybe further than Gen 3 this time?), Sevii Islands added, and the "difficulty" and mechanics of the previous games brought back.

Sounds like the best possible game Gamefreak could make, whilst giving them another year to polish Gen 8 to a mirror sheen.


Well sure, I didn't care much for XY or SuMo, and Let's Go PE is only getting close but quite there yet.

And those past two gens weren't pandering as much as the more marketable Pokemon being brought back. Those are gonna keep coming back ad infinitum, simply because they sell games and merchandise.


There isn't much to improve aside from implementing the physical/special split, some quality of life features, and maybe adding some extra islands to host Pokemon from later gens.
...you know I thought people were joking when they said gen I fans only wanted to play the same game over and over but here we are.
 
Oct 27, 2017
359
I'm in the camp that Gen 1'ers just got their game.
I want Gen 8 to build off what Gen 7 began.
In particular, I want a more three-dimensional world with a variable camera and more shakeups to the core formula.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,396
UK
Let's Go now exists to pander to nostalgia. If they revisit Mega Evos, regional formes or unique Z-Moves, there are 6 other generations they can pull from at this point. Time to give Gen 1 a goddamn rest.
 
Feb 8, 2018
3,432
Wouldn't it be the most resource efficient course of action? Same region, couple more gens of Pokemon brought over in HD quality (maybe further than Gen 3 this time?), Sevii Islands added, and the "difficulty" and mechanics of the previous games brought back.

Sounds like the best possible game Gamefreak could make, whilst giving them another year to polish Gen 8 to a mirror sheen.


Well sure, I didn't care much for XY or SuMo, and Let's Go PE is only getting close but quite there yet.

And those past two gens weren't pandering as much as the more marketable Pokemon being brought back. Those are gonna keep coming back ad infinitum, simply because they sell games and merchandise.


There isn't much to improve aside from implementing the physical/special split, some quality of life features, and maybe adding some extra islands to host Pokemon from later gens.
There's Pokemon from every gen that are popular and marketable and sell games and merch. And not every Pokemon in Gen 1 is on the same level of popularity and marketability, not that I have anything against Seel or Magmar etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,145
There's Pokemon from every gen that are popular and marketable and sell games and merch. And not every Pokemon in Gen 1 is on the same level of popularity and marketability, not that I have anything against Seel or Magmar etc.
There was a popularity poll a few years back and the top spot went to Greninja. Hell, only like 4 spots of the top 10 went to gen 1 Pokemon and only one of them made it into the top 5
 
May 29, 2018
31
At least Pokemon from other generations still got Mega Evolutions, people overlook the fact that Gen 1 Pokemon are the only ones outside of Gen 7 to get Pokemon-specific Z-moves.

But it won't matter anyway, Gen 8 would probably introduce some new gimmick that gives more focus to Gen 1 Pokemon again...
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,551
Gen 1 fan and all the mainline games have appealed to me. I just haven't had much time to invest with life and other games being around. With that, give me no more random battles.
 
Oct 31, 2017
484
There was a popularity poll a few years back and the top spot went to Greninja. Hell, only like 4 spots of the top 10 went to gen 1 Pokemon and only one of them made it into the top 5
This poll here right?
https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/740155327916744704?s=19

Interesting to note that quite a few of the 'overdesigned garbage' Pokemon (usually referring to Gen 5 ) are among the top well liked mons in this poll. And it wasn't a small size either. A good 500k+ people supposedly voted in this poll. Many legendaries too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,449

Kyros

Banned
Member
Sep 1, 2018
730
...you know I thought people were joking when they said gen I fans only wanted to play the same game over and over but here we are.
Hah, I'm not that bad. It's just that I'd prefer to have a remake of equal or better quality to play, rather than settling for a lesser one. It's been about 15 years since the last proper Kanto game, so I'd gladly take the game Let's Go should have been from the start - like how SuMo were essentially a beta run to be replaced a year later by the actual final releases.

I'm also perfectly willing to play a Gen 8 if it's as good as 1, 4 or even 2... It's just I'm a lot less confident in that being the case.
 
Oct 25, 2017
320
What will GF do to pander to Gen 1 fans? Kind of an easy question to answer. Probably just do the same thing as they did with Gens 6 and 7: Include more representation from Gen 1 than any other gen... again. Maybe even straight up copy areas from Kanto like X and Y did with Viridian Forest. Any gimmicks introduced will also likely either focus on Gen 1 pokemon or be completely exclusive to Gen 1 Pokemon. See Mega Evolutions and Alolan forms. So really all they have to do is the same ole song and dance they've been doing for the last 6 years.

Not trying to whine or be salty, just stating what has been done and what I would expect to continue. I will admit though that I would be pretty stoked If I were completely wrong and there would be less Kanto references. Definitely had my fill, would be fresh to pull a Gen 5 kinda reboot or even just having equal representation across the gens.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,197
Because you have some people on the internet who act like the only games they ever enjoyed playing were the Gen 1 games, and the idea that one can still be a fan of the series despite not liking any of the games released in the last 20 years doesn't sit right with some people.
Well then they’re gate-keeping assholes. Who cares what games in a series people like?
 
Aug 22, 2018
218
They shouldn't have to do anything more than they already have, Kanto Pokemon always come back and get preferential treatment and we're just coming off of a full Kanto remake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,013
They shouldn't, it was bad enough in gen 6 and, to some degree gen 7. Plus we had that god awful bland gen 1 remake.

Let gen 8 stand up on its two feet, like how gen 3-5 managed to do so without gen 1 overshadowing them.
 
Oct 31, 2017
484
Well then they’re gate-keeping assholes. Who cares what games in a series people like?
They aren't even gatekeepers because they haven't touched the games since the original R/B/G.
They just like to swarm every new Pokemon release and reveal with screams about how the designs are shit, Gen 1 was best and how the games are bad despite never playing them because of the aforementioned 'bad pokemon'.
They were at their worst with Gen 5 and now Gamfreak has essentially buried that take on Pokemon 50 feet underground.
'Icecream cone Pokemon' is now a general throw-away term for 'shitty Pokemon' now all because Gen 1 stans threw a fucking fit that they couldn't get slowpoke before endgame and GF attempted to let the game stand on it's own.
 
Nov 30, 2017
843
Bangladesh
Wouldn't it be the most resource efficient course of action? Same region, couple more gens of Pokemon brought over in HD quality (maybe further than Gen 3 this time?), Sevii Islands added, and the "difficulty" and mechanics of the previous games brought back.

Sounds like the best possible game Gamefreak could make, whilst giving them another year to polish Gen 8 to a mirror sheen.


Well sure, I didn't care much for XY or SuMo, and Let's Go PE is only getting close but quite there yet.

And those past two gens weren't pandering as much as the more marketable Pokemon being brought back. Those are gonna keep coming back ad infinitum, simply because they sell games and merchandise.


There isn't much to improve aside from implementing the physical/special split, some quality of life features, and maybe adding some extra islands to host Pokemon from later gens.

This can not be a real post. Gotta be a parody.

Every monster past 151 is a waste of bits. Don’t @ me.
Normally, this would be treated as sarcasm, but judging by your previous posts, I'm not sure...
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,293
Gen 1 fans now have a whole new franchise of games that are even more about them than regular Pokemon already is, so Gen 1 fans can go ahead and avoid playing those games now, while Gen 8 targets those of us who play Pokemon games
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,872
Wouldn't it be the most resource efficient course of action? Same region, couple more gens of Pokemon brought over in HD quality (maybe further than Gen 3 this time?), Sevii Islands added, and the "difficulty" and mechanics of the previous games brought back.

Sounds like the best possible game Gamefreak could make, whilst giving them another year to polish Gen 8 to a mirror sheen.


Well sure, I didn't care much for XY or SuMo, and Let's Go PE is only getting close but quite there yet.

And those past two gens weren't pandering as much as the more marketable Pokemon being brought back. Those are gonna keep coming back ad infinitum, simply because they sell games and merchandise.


There isn't much to improve aside from implementing the physical/special split, some quality of life features, and maybe adding some extra islands to host Pokemon from later gens.
The models and animations they're using for all the currently existing Pokemon are going to be recycled for gen 8 just like they were for Let's Go, so at most there's only new textures to worry about for those, maybe some rebalancing and adding new moves. There's really not a need to slowly reintroduce them for HD. They have an entire studio that's been making and future proofing the 3D models and animations in the form of Creatures Inc. Hell, they've even had walking and running animations for all pokemon up to gen 7 made and stored in the Sun/Moon code even though they weren't used at all in that game. And by all reports Gen 8 has already been in development for quite a few years.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,173
Don't think they can, I've tried getting into it again and I just don't care about the others. Plus a lot of the design is reject tier imo. Gold/Silver were ok, but I still don't care.
 
Oct 27, 2017
985
Until they make a game like Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth that targets a mature audience (the folks who started with Digimon in the beginning and Digimon Adventure 01) and deliver on it they will never have me.
 
Oct 30, 2017
385
I don't really have a horse in this fight, but I see way more people here complaining about "pandering to genwunners" then I see gen-one fans complaining that the series has evolved.

Every game Gen 6 onwards (XY, ORAS, SM, USUM) has suffered in quality because of the pandering. Baby tier difficulty, constant handholding, barely any exploration and optional routes, and mediocre post games.
Those things aren't really pandering, though. They're different, orthogonal problems. In fact, you'd expect a game that was flawed because it was pandering to old fans to have less handholding, not more.

I'm not saying XY and SuMo didn't have some pandering! I'm just saying that maybe that's not the root of all of its problems.
 
Oct 30, 2017
385
Pokémon will always be aimed, first and foremost, at children. The whole promise of the game, the feeling — of getting to leave home at a bizarrely young age and travel the world having adventures with your monster friends — is tailor-made to appeal to children.

They aren't even gatekeepers because they haven't touched the games since the original R/B/G.
scare_crow was saying that people who decide that gen-one fans "aren't real fans" for not playing all the subsequent games are the gatekeepers, not the gen-one fans.
 
Oct 31, 2017
484
If that's the case, then should've they also target gen 2 and 3 fans since they are old enough to be in that same demo?
My sister is about to graduate high school and she grew up with Gen 4. There are a FUCK TON more people now that have nostalgia for generations 3+ than just gen1. It's fine to have cameos and nods. But we had two generations that have zero distinction to them because it was chock full of Gen 1 Pokemon and pandering. The only thing that saved USUM was the Alolan forms.
Gen 4 suffered the same issue by having a good chunk of their new Pokemon be Gen 1+2 evolutions.
Gen 2 and 3, and 5 have a strong identity because they relied on the new Pokemon they brought to the table to prop them up. Not just bring in Charizard pandering so the slumbering Wunners won't shit up the Pokemon forums complaining about how garbage the new gen is for not being Gen 1.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,016
Yeah they need to pander to later gens. It's the same problem Nintendo has with the NES.

Like, get over it and move onto other nostalgia.