How do you think Gamefreak/Nintendo will make the Gen 8 Pokemon games appealing to Gen 1 fans?

Feb 10, 2019
19
See, I was going to give Game Freak the benefit of the doubt and assume that all of the Gen 1 shoe-horning in XY and SuMo was to celebrate the 20th anniversary... but then LGPE came out in 2018.

If Gen 8 has the Kantonian Plague like the past four games did, then it might actually be a pass for me. Unless it turns out to be a great Pokemon game, which XY and SuMo/USUM weren't, at least in my opinion.
 
The thing is when you do it one time, then yeah you're playing to the series' roots. But when you do it consistently, it gets to the point where it's tiring and cynical. For instance, in XY, you had an entire forest that basically a copypaste job of Viridian Forest from the layout of the area, all the way down to the distribution of Pokemon from RBY in the area, and then you get the Kanto starters (which kind of takes away from Kalos's starters). To all of the smaller things like Mewtwo/one of the Bird Trio being catchable, the distribution of early game being remarkably similar to RBY (beyond just the forest).

So when it came down to Pokemon Sun and Moon coming out, people (including myself) were excited for something fresh, but then we got Alola variants being exclusively for Kanto Pokemon. And then we got Pokemon distribution favouring Kanto Pokemon, the addition of Red and Blue (compare this to Black 2 and White 2 getting every gym leader from Gen I to IV as well as Elite 4 champions), a ton of references in dialogue like Lillie referencing going to Kanto.

Like at a certain point, it starts to hurt the identity of a Pokemon game if you keep chasing every Gen I reference. And it's really strange because Game Freak was never so reliant on Gen I in each subsequent Gen before VI and each of these games were allowed to stand on their own legs. Considering that each Pokemon game means that a new person is going to be part of the franchise, there's really no need to keep chasing after that one lapsed fan who is over the series and thinks only Gen I is relevant.
This is a pretty good explanation of how I feel as well.
 
The thing is when you do it one time, then yeah you're playing to the series' roots. But when you do it consistently, it gets to the point where it's tiring and cynical. For instance, in XY, you had an entire forest that basically a copypaste job of Viridian Forest from the layout of the area, all the way down to the distribution of Pokemon from RBY in the area, and then you get the Kanto starters (which kind of takes away from Kalos's starters). To all of the smaller things like Mewtwo/one of the Bird Trio being catchable, the distribution of early game being remarkably similar to RBY (beyond just the forest).

So when it came down to Pokemon Sun and Moon coming out, people (including myself) were excited for something fresh, but then we got Alola variants being exclusively for Kanto Pokemon. And then we got Pokemon distribution favouring Kanto Pokemon, the addition of Red and Blue (compare this to Black 2 and White 2 getting every gym leader from Gen I to IV as well as Elite 4 champions), a ton of references in dialogue like Lillie referencing going to Kanto.

Like at a certain point, it starts to hurt the identity of a Pokemon game if you keep chasing every Gen I reference. And it's really strange because Game Freak was never so reliant on Gen I in each subsequent Gen before VI and each of these games were allowed to stand on their own legs. Considering that each Pokemon game means that a new person is going to be part of the franchise, there's really no need to keep chasing after that one lapsed fan who is over the series and thinks only Gen I is relevant.
Pretty much this. They NEED to give it a rest. There is plenty of pandering they could even do for all the other past gens being there are literal millions of people who grew up on those generations as well. My younger cousin would probably be REALLY happy if they pandered to Gen 4. It seems so strange to chase the past so hard for so long when its clear Gen 1 isn't what sells that many more copies of Pokemon. There was a decline up until Gen 4 and 5 and in my opinion 4 and 5 are the best in the series.

All in all Pokemon is best when we- Guess what? Have new Pokemon.
 
Oct 28, 2017
319
Because Pidgey is established shorthand for a weak, non-threatening Pokémon?
Pidgey isn't inherently less threatening that could show up on a first route is it?


I don’t think anyone thinks Pidgey overshadows the new monsters.
It does when the first thing you always have to see is it instead of something new to that generation. Locking encounters is silly either way.
The only reason I could see for doing it is if you wanted to teach kids about shiny pokemon at some point, in the same vein as the old catching tutorials.

This is what I mean by potentially anything from the original games being seen by somebody somewhere as “nostalgia pandering.” Is a Poké Ball being red and white “pandering”?
Of course not, but then again you have to separate things that are just apart of the world versus things from Gen 1 exclusively.

Personally I wouldn’t want them to reinvent the wheel and put an unPidgey and an unRatatta in each game. That just bloats the Pokédex without adding real variety. It’s okay to just use Pidgey and Ratatta.
So what you're saying is that you rather have one normal/flying bird and one normal rat everywhere, instead of different birds with different strengths and weakness? I'd say it adds plenty of variety from a design and move set perspective alone even if they don't change the typing. Which we already see in later gens. Even in 99 playing Pokemon Yellow I never used either, so being stuck with them to this day without any change up probably would have gotten me to give up on the franchise.

Speaking of X/Y in a world where Vivillon exists, please don't give me anymore Caterpie
Agreed Vivillion even has the cool thing of different regional patterns so they can even just add more if they bring it back.
 
Oct 25, 2017
649
They'll put some Gen I Pokemon in the Dex. Gen I fans aren't fucking special and GameFreak needs to stop acting like they are. Let's Go is enough and they've been giving them special treatment for the past few Gens.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,195
Personally I wouldn’t want them to reinvent the wheel and put an unPidgey and an unRatatta in each game. That just bloats the Pokédex without adding real variety. It’s okay to just use Pidgey and Ratatta.
Who says that they have to do that though? You're forgetting that GF can take inspiration from many species of a bird/rat. After all, we don't have just ONE type of bird or ONE type of rat in a given location here in real life. If Game Freak did what you suggested, then we would never have birds like the Starly line, the Fletchling line, etc. Or better yet, they don't always have to do a bird/rat template per generation. They can do something new.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,335
Well the TPC has been pandering Gen 1 since Generation 6 with X/Y. The Kanto starters were available in that game rather easily. Then we got Mega-Evolutions, with two Gen 1 Pokemon receiving two distinct Megas.

Then came Gen 7 with the Aloha forms of Kanto Pokemon.

Then came PLGPE which was the second Gen 1 remake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,548
Well the TPC has been pandering Gen 1 since Generation 6 with X/Y. The Kanto starters were available in that game rather easily. Then we got Mega-Evolutions, with two Gen 1 Pokemon receiving two distinct Megas.

Then came Gen 7 with the Aloha forms of Kanto Pokemon.

Then came PLGPE which was the second Gen 1 remake.
You mean since Gen 2 with returning to Kanto.
Then gen 3 with a remake of Gen 1.
Then Gen 4 with a remake of Gen 2 where you also get the original starters.
Black and White is basically a Gen 1 reboot. And then we arrive at Gen 6.

Gen 1 is never going away.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,335
You mean since Gen 2 with returning to Kanto.
Then gen 3 with a remake of Gen 1.
Then Gen 4 with a remake of Gen 2 where you also get the original starters.
Black and White is basically a Gen 1 reboot. And then we arrive at Gen 6.

Gen 1 is never going away.
LOL. Good point. I loved Gen V, but it was funny seeing all the Gen 1 analogs there too.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,195
You mean since Gen 2 with returning to Kanto.
Then gen 3 with a remake of Gen 1.
Then Gen 4 with a remake of Gen 2 where you also get the original starters.
Black and White is basically a Gen 1 reboot. And then we arrive at Gen 6.

Gen 1 is never going away.
They aren't the same and you know it.

- GSC was a sequel that Game Freak intended as being the continuation of RBG. This would be like saying because Dragon Quest 2/3 was built off of Dragon Quest 1 that it means Enix was pandering to DQ1 fans, when clearly, that wasn't the case.

- FRLG was intentionally developed in response to RBY aging like milk and due to the shift from the DV system to the IV system, they needed a way to bring in more Gen I Pokemon into Gen III.

- HGSS was also intentionally developed for the same reasons as FRLG, but because people had issues with batteries drying and they wanted to modernize the game. The starters you're referring to was an extra reward you get for beating Red, and considering that HGSS is a remake of Gen II and a sequel to Gen I, this makes sense. Don't try to act like this is on the same level as Kantobaiting that goes on in XY and SM.

- Black and White???????? Now this one of all makes the least sense. There's no Kanto references and it's a game that stands on its own compared to XY, and SM. The only reason you're saying this is because you want to force a comparison between the Dex quality and its similarity to Gen I, which I would argue by saying that in terms of power and design, they aren't as similar as you think.
 
Feb 11, 2019
5
Generation 1 pandering is always going to be involved in the marketing it just makes sense considering that era was the franchise's peak in terms of sales and cultural penetration. The real question is how subtle will it be. The franchise runs the gambit on that end.

EDIT: Misread thread title, I imagine it'd be implemented with free gen 1 starter mons in the post-game like HGSS in response to fan backlash.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,548
They aren't the same and you know it.

- GSC was a sequel that Game Freak intended as being the continuation of RBG. This would be like saying because Dragon Quest 2/3 was built off of Dragon Quest 1 that it means Enix was pandering to DQ1 fans, when clearly, that wasn't the case.

- FRLG was intentionally developed in response to RBY aging like milk and due to the shift from the DV system to the IV system, they needed a way to bring in more Gen I Pokemon into Gen III.

- HGSS was also intentionally developed for the same reasons as FRLG, but because people had issues with batteries drying and they wanted to modernize the game. The starters you're referring to was an extra reward you get for beating Red, and considering that HGSS is a remake of Gen II and a sequel to Gen I, this makes sense. Don't try to act like this is on the same level as Kantobaiting that goes on in XY and SM.

- Black and White???????? Now this one of all makes the least sense. There's no Kanto references and it's a game that stands on its own compared to XY, and SM. The only reason you're saying this is because you want to force a comparison between the Dex quality and its similarity to Gen I, which I would argue by saying that in terms of power and design, they aren't as similar as you think.
Gen 1 has always and will always have a presence in every other generation, I really don't take this genwunners vs antigen1boiz war seriously enough to get deeper into this argument than that, much less to sit here and listen to accusations of hidden motives or disengenuous arguments... Yep it's not the same and I know it, you got me nvm @ everything none of those gen 1 inclusions count toward your arbitrary threshold of the bluntly obviously biased verbiage you are referring to as "pandering" so I guess you were right all along, it's actually not even up to opinions, gen 1 is too much now, some things are clearly pandering and the things you like and personally consider to be well reasoned are not.. I almost got you w my fake argument tho!
 
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Black and White???????? Now this one of all makes the least sense. There's no Kanto references and it's a game that stands on its own compared to XY, and SM. The only reason you're saying this is because you want to force a comparison between the Dex quality and its similarity to Gen I, which I would argue by saying that in terms of power and design, they aren't as similar as you think.
listen man all I know is that there are jellyfish Pokemon in both so I'll leave it up to you as to whether that's a coincidence