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How do you think Gamefreak/Nintendo will make the Gen 8 Pokemon games appealing to Gen 1 fans?
- Thread starter SilverX
- Start date
There is a real big difference between a Gen 1 fan skipping a game or two but overall keeping up with the series and a Gen 1 fan who feels the need to drive by shitpost the new Pokemon games 'suck' because you saw the IceCream meme Pokemon but they literally haven't engaged with the series in any way whatsoever for 20+ years but still demand GF to make games 'for them' at the expense of literally everyone else.
They have LGPE now. They can play that and finally leave us alone.
Glorious reaction to the premise in the OP. A good new gen would mean them taking a huge step away from the obnoxious pandering they've been doing for almost 10 years.
Nobody is doing that in this thread though.
It's just a bunch of people complaining about people doing that. I'm reminded of an old phone warz thread on BGR or something, where the article would be about Samsung doing something and the comments would be a bunch of Android users complaining about the wave of Apple users who were inevitably going to shitpost about it ("in before all the Apple fanbois claim Steve Jobs invented this!"), and zero comments from the alleged Apple loyalists actually shitposting.
Also, I don't think the people who "haven't engaged with the series in any way whatsoever" are also somehow "demanding GF to make games 'for them' at the expense of literally everyone else." If GF wants to go after lapsed fans, that's their prerogative, but that's different from people who don't follow the series somehow also...following the series and demanding that it suits their taste, which just seems contradictory.
Ha, no no no. I was talking about the people who get so upset about generation one fans not being "real" fans. Kind of like... you, it seems.
I didn't. And there was context.
None of you are in a position to call anyone else worked up in this salt factory if a thread. All of my comments were playing off the saltiness of others.
Exactly.
Also the gen 1 pandering they've done is terrible. Oh I can fight Red again and catch a Vulpix.....what a revelation.
BW2 had better gen 1 fanservice than the entire 3DS line of games combined. Go fight every gym leader ever. Getting a free Charmander is nothing now.
BW2 had better gen 1 fanservice than the entire 3DS line of games combined. Go fight every gym leader ever. Getting a free Charmander is nothing now.
I hope they don't pander to the gen one fans honestly. Let's go just came out and it's now time to stop trying to put gen one Pokémon in games if you can help it (except after you get the national dex). It's a new gen, you've got an audience so introduce something new. I will never understand people who complain about variety in a Pokémon game. If you have your favourites, then stick with them.
What they should do: make routes and caves between towns long and filled with high level wild Pokemon and trainers who have 4-5 Pokemon and a rival who is way overleveled to where you are show up without warning. Have multiple critical paths and optional areas. Cut out or dramatically shorten most of the cutscene. This would be some true Gen 1 throwback.
What they will do: make a game that won't stop interrupting you to tell a c tier anime story. You'll linearally progress through the map and fight trainers that have 1 or 2 Pokemon. The regional pokedex will be 250 mons, mostly from Gen 1, and most of the new ones will be late or post game. Red and Blue will show up post game (but probably not until the 3rd version).
What they will do: make a game that won't stop interrupting you to tell a c tier anime story. You'll linearally progress through the map and fight trainers that have 1 or 2 Pokemon. The regional pokedex will be 250 mons, mostly from Gen 1, and most of the new ones will be late or post game. Red and Blue will show up post game (but probably not until the 3rd version).
I'd prefer they stop jerking off gen 1 in general, thanks.
Realistically though, I expect such pandering to be all they do.
Realistically though, I expect such pandering to be all they do.
"Great results"????
Mega-Evolutions turned out to be ridiculously unbalanced (and given mainly to more popular/competitive Pokemon, which in turn only increased the power creep), and people were frustrated that the Alola variants were ONLY exclusive to Gen I. It especially didn't make sense because regional variants don't just apply to the original 151, they'd apply to living beings in general. There's also the matter of Gen VI and VII being some of the worst Pokemon games when compared to Gen I - V.
It's worth pointing out that this year marks the 20th anniversary for Gold and Silver, so it will be interesting to see how Game Freak opt to celebrate that.
What they should do: celebrate Gold and Silver by having a surprising post game allowing players to revisit another region post-game. It's bizarre that they've never done this a second time.
What they will do: notch-eared Pichu or whatever will be released over Mystery Gift. (I wouldn't actually mind if the the Smash Bros Pichu variants got added as event Pokemon.)
1. Where did I call you "worked up"
2. I have only responded to your post of a video your posted without context that itself had zero context as to what it was about.
3. You have since taken the fact that I didn't know a specific quote from the Brady Bunch (which I shared with a bunch of people my age (mid 20's) who had no idea where this was from) as an excuse to act like I've been saying nothing but "kill Gen I" when all my posts in this thread has not been that.
4. What the hell does that have to do with my quote? You want to drag Crazy Izanagi into this, do it with his quotes with you, not mine.
While opinions may differ, I was speaking more to the consensus of each generation, and Gen 3 and 4 are still viewed more favourably than Gen 6 and 7.
"I mean, you're the one who got worked over the fact that I was unable to identify a tv show quote with no context."
Really?
X and Y completely devalued their new starters by giving you a Kanto starter with a Mega Evolution before you even get to the second gym. This is a terrible idea.
This is still one of the dumbest things Game Freak has tried to pull recently. Introducing new Pokémon in USUM without patching them into SM was already kinda sketch, but trying to pass off a Pokémon that has never even cohabitated a game with other Gen 7 Pokémon as being Gen 7 itself and not having it be just a Gen 8 preview like spin-offs normally get is absolutely absurd.
Fine, it's too early. But my other points still stand. You seem to have ignored people in this thread stating that the best course of action for Game Freak is to remake FireRed/LeafGreen because it's is efficient and have people who believe that the only people who have nostalgia are those in their 30s therefore only those people should be catered too. You then went on and on and on about how the only people that are "salty" are those who want Game Freak to not focus too much on Gen I while simultaneously pissing off everyone in this thread to prove it. Are there people "salty" that Gen I gets too much love? Yes. But you've blatantly ignored the previous threads that wanted all pokemon past 150 to be dead as well as people here who want to literally replay Kanto the very same year after a game on Kanto game out.
As a Pokémon fan whose interest peaked with gen 2 (but also really enjoyed 3) I don't want pandering... I just want to see a good selection of Pokémon from Gen 1-3 included in the game, maybe a couple of regional variations and...
I really want to see Scaryeon (ghost Eeveeloution if the name didn't give it away...)
Edit:
Also I'd really want a prevolution for Miltank/Tauros that explores a bit more of the story behind the differences between male and female. Maybe a calf with two variations too?
I really want to see Scaryeon (ghost Eeveeloution if the name didn't give it away...)
Edit:
Also I'd really want a prevolution for Miltank/Tauros that explores a bit more of the story behind the differences between male and female. Maybe a calf with two variations too?
This is where I stand too. Gen 1 had it's fair time to shine with Pokémon Go, Let's Go and Alolan variants so now something fresh please.
they can't patch the game because they want people spending full price for what amounts to an expansion pack these days
they gave up on teh idea of baby pokemon for whatever reason
Outside of giving some Gen 1 Pokémon new evolutions (like Eevee and maybe some new split evos like how Gen 2 had Bellossom and Politoed) I really hope there isn't much Gen 1 pandering. It's gotten really tiresome over the last few games (especially Alolan forms being Gen 1 exclusive)
What? Most people who care about Gen 1 aren't exactly part of the fanbase, they're former fans that want to play them again.
While the fanbase is divided in terms of generations and stuff, I'm pretty sure the amount of people still engaging in Pokémon fandom that only like Gen 1 (or just any single generation) are minimal.
Pandering to Gen 1 has never been about appealing to the current fanbase, it's about appealing to the nostalgia of players who only played Pokemon in their youth.
Gen 1 fans didn't get their reputation for no reason. Have you never asked yourself why the same ire isn't directed at Gen 2 fans?
For as long as I had access to an internet the SAME gen fans with the SAME background of 'I stopped playing after Red' have made a Heruclean effort to proclaim how bad the new Pokemon, and how they are too many of them and it would be great if it was just 151 again. They have done this since Gen 3- were at their worst at Gen 5 and were catered to on a golden platter to the detriment of Gen 6-7. I love it when that Genwunners are now saying they are 'prosecuted' because people who actually engage in the franchise are rightfully calling them out for being insufferable purists. Their ire is well earned in the community. They did it to themselves. No other gen Stan faces this animosity because gen 3 fans didn't make a conceited effort to drive by shit on any gen that came after Ruby.
Sorry, I can't take you seriously when you use the word "Stan." Have a good one. Hopefully you enjoy the next game.
If you were simply done arguing you could of not replied. But yeah dismiss an argument over Lexicon.
Gladly! (Although, I have a feeling you think I'm one to the "GENWUNNERS!!!!" you keep referring to, which is funny.)
Again, hope you enjoy the next game. Until then, keep fighting whatever fight you think you're fighting!
Maybe it's because I don't actually hang in Pokémon communities, but I pretty much exclusively see people who complain about genwunners, rather than these alleged genwunners themselves. I'm sure these people exist, but I lump 'em in with all the others who talk about how Pokémon was best when they were into the series the most, and how the new ones are worse.
The concept of Gen 1 pandering is interesting to me though. It's described here as some kind of cynical marketing ploy to lure in lapsed fans, rather than playing to the series' roots. Pokémon is an old enough franchise these days that the very people who grew up with the series could have grown old enough to join the workforce and work on actual Pokémon games.
The concept of Gen 1 pandering is interesting to me though. It's described here as some kind of cynical marketing ploy to lure in lapsed fans, rather than playing to the series' roots. Pokémon is an old enough franchise these days that the very people who grew up with the series could have grown old enough to join the workforce and work on actual Pokémon games.
I know exactly why they did it. I just think not even patching them into the older games of the generation (they don't have to make them directly available, just make trading and battling fully work) is looking increasingly anachronistic now that they're on platforms that allow patching.
You still sometimes see that kind of rhetoric here on resetera, but it's more common elsewhere. It was really bad back in the days of Gen 5. Anyway, the term isn't a recent thing and didn't come out of nowhere, it's just died down probably because of the term becoming popular. We just have different experiences with different groups of people.
But man, poor Vanilluxe, it doesn't deserve the hate
Never referred to you as a Genwunner so maybe your the one making shit up.
Interesting how people seemed to forget how bad it peaked during gen 5. They showed their whole ass out and ruined the general perception of an entire set of games using the same 4 meme Pokemon as an attack on the integrity of the franchise.
You don't see it as much in the Pokemon communities because genwunners are vocal but not really part of the avid Pokemon community.
The worst was the time I was at an event and met gewunners that were younger than pokemon
I do feel like it is a marketing ploy of the worst kind though, maybe if it gets bad enough I'll stop buying the games (who am I kidding)
Also Vanilluxe for life
Yuuuup. Also I cringe whenever I see someone use "genwunners" unironically.
That's a good point.
There are a lot of differing opinions as to what even counts as "gen-one pandering." Someone earlier in this thread complained about having Ratatta and Pidgey being early Pokémon. Is that pandering? Or does it just make thematic sense to have rats and pigeons be common, easy Pokémon? Would people be more satisfied if they made other rat and pigeon Pokémon for each region, or would that still be "pandering" since it would obviously still be based on the template of Ratatta and Pidgey?
That's an easy one. Are birds and rats exactly the same everywhere in the world? That's rhetorical because they aren't. So why would it make sense to lock in Pidgey as the very first encounter everytime you start X/Y if it isn't nostalgia pandering? Plus Pikachu is a mouse anyway and guaranteed to show up. So yeah it's not crazy to want variety. They can show up but they shouldn't overshadow the new creatures, that actually belong in a region.
A good example of this was Corsola in Gen 7, they gave a good reason it was there in the region and tied it to a new Pokemon being Mareanie. It's part of the reason I don't mind Johto having a ton of Kanto pokemon, the regions touch so of course the biodiversity is similar. Disbelief has to be suspended pretty hard to convince me Japanese birds are in France.
I hope they don't that's what I think because all they ever do is worship at the altar of gen 1.
Make a new gen that isn't always some callback to gen 1, if they add new evolutions and forms don't make 99% of them for gen 1 pokemon.
Make a new gen that isn't always some callback to gen 1, if they add new evolutions and forms don't make 99% of them for gen 1 pokemon.
Thanks for the explainer.
Because Pidgey is established shorthand for a weak, non-threatening Pokémon?
I don't think anyone thinks Pidgey overshadows the new monsters.
This is what I mean by potentially anything from the original games being seen by somebody somewhere as "nostalgia pandering." Is a Poké Ball being red and white "pandering"?
Personally I wouldn't want them to reinvent the wheel and put an unPidgey and an unRatatta in each game. That just bloats the Pokédex without adding real variety. It's okay to just use Pidgey and Ratatta.
Speaking of X/Y in a world where Vivillon exists, please don't give me anymore Caterpie
I skipped Let's Go specifically because it went all-in on Gen I nostalgia. I'd like Pokemon from the later generations get some more love in Gen VIII.
Well you can get a lot of variety from the com mons, I'd say most of them are pretty distinct from each other. GF makes new com mons because birds and rodents and bugs are common, they're just the core for a new gen. Same reason you get new fossils for example.
And for your specific examples of Pidgey and Rattatta, you can look at how Pidgeot got a mega, and Rattatta got an Alolan form to see how they do get more attention and love from GF. I actually don't know if Pidgey and Rattatta are the most popular of the birds, maybe they are.
People who care about electric rodents that aren't Pikachu. People who care about Pokémon that aren't part of the 151. Catering specifically to one segment does not instill the idea that this is for everyone.
Rattata, Sentret, Zigzagoon, Bidoof, Patrat, Bunnelby, Yungoose are all different Pokémon and work differently.
So are Pidgey, Hoothoot, Tailow, Starly, Pidove, Fletchling, and Pikipek.
There is variety and there's no such thing as bloat for the Pokédex.
In a world where Starly, Hoothoot, Pikipek, Fletchling, Zigzagoon, Bidoof, Patrat and the likes all exist, there is no excuse to almost always find Pidgey and Rattata on early routes times and times again.
Quite frankly, I'd be more than okay if Gen VIII eschewed Gen I Pokemon entirely until the post-game.
Gen I got a game all to itself, is it that unreasonable to let the other 600+ Pokemon share a spotlight without getting overshadowed by the originals?
Gen I got a game all to itself, is it that unreasonable to let the other 600+ Pokemon share a spotlight without getting overshadowed by the originals?
The thing is when you do it one time, then yeah you're playing to the series' roots. But when you do it consistently, it gets to the point where it's tiring and cynical. For instance, in XY, you had an entire forest that basically a copypaste job of Viridian Forest from the layout of the area, all the way down to the distribution of Pokemon from RBY in the area, and then you get the Kanto starters (which kind of takes away from Kalos's starters). To all of the smaller things like Mewtwo/one of the Bird Trio being catchable, the distribution of early game being remarkably similar to RBY (beyond just the forest).
So when it came down to Pokemon Sun and Moon coming out, people (including myself) were excited for something fresh, but then we got Alola variants being exclusively for Kanto Pokemon. And then we got Pokemon distribution favouring Kanto Pokemon, the addition of Red and Blue (compare this to Black 2 and White 2 getting every gym leader from Gen I to IV as well as Elite 4 champions), a ton of references in dialogue like Lillie referencing going to Kanto.
Like at a certain point, it starts to hurt the identity of a Pokemon game if you keep chasing every Gen I reference. And it's really strange because Game Freak was never so reliant on Gen I in each subsequent Gen before VI and each of these games were allowed to stand on their own legs. Considering that each Pokemon game means that a new person is going to be part of the franchise, there's really no need to keep chasing after that one lapsed fan who is over the series and thinks only Gen I is relevant.
pidgeons and rats are common but they're not, like, everywhere, all the time
they might as well be though
but still I'm all for not just reusing the same bird and rat Pokemon ad infinitum as though the world of Pokemon isn't supposed to be this diverse place that's still being explored and still having important discoveries made
Can we not instead? Nearly 6 years of Kanto focus between gen 6, 7, and let's go is enough already.