How do you think the alt-right can be de-radicalised?

[It’s Time To Go]

I've read a lot of people in here recently upset at the fact their friends and relatives have fallen victim to alt-right propaganda, which is just awful for them. I'm lucky that my family have all gone from highly conservative catholics to pretty left wing as time has gone on, but a couple of my friends recently have been re-posting stuff on social media from Tommy Robinson and Jordan Peterson (sen?) and when I've tried to argue with them that Robinson in particular is a vicious racist thug that should be jailed, they tell me I've been brainwashed by politically correct propaganda from the mainstream media.

So how do we possibly deradicalise these people? Honestly I have no idea if facts don't get through, or if they don't acknowledge that all women aren't some giant force for evil to be defeated or that obvious racist misogynist scumbags aren't racist and misogynist. I'm honestly at a loss.

 

[Richter1887]

You need to deplatform the Alt Right leaders to stop their bullshit from spreading. That's the first step in the right direction.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

You need to deplatform the Alt Right leaders to stop their bullshit from spreading. That's the first step in the right direction.

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Like in jail or just removed from any position of authority?

 

[Richter1887]

Like in jail or just removed from any position of authority?

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Same as what happened to Milo and Alex Jones.

Most of these people are doing this for money so if you hit them where it hurts they will weaken.

 

[Syntrophos]

I'm lucky in that whilst that being a white Jew I can actually sit down and talk with more virulent right-wingers in the UK without them quite catching on. It's incredibly difficult, but when you spot the pattern that (at least amongst the working class) these leading figures tend to target younger men and women that feel alienated and completely given up on by society. I think talking one on one to some of them you can show them that the poverty they experience isn't the fault of immigrants taking your jobs etc. I can appreciate people not wanting to do this (it can be pretty exhausting) but it has swung people I've known as kids away from the trajectory of EDL/ National Action stuff. It doesn't help that this rhetoric has been normalised by the political mainstream for decades. When it comes to middle and upper class Nazis, I'm at a complete loss. Some of the most far right people I've ever met have been from very well off families whilst I was at university. Maybe for them it's just a simple case of ensuring they lose any working class support and marginalising them.

 

[Deleted member 12352]

Shut down Youtube and Fox News would be one step.

 

[Bonafide]

Deplatforming doesn't really do anything.

It may work against loner grifters that go off rails and actually do something fucked up that even the conservative oligarchs do not want to support (Milo, Jones, McInnes) but you're not going to going to stop those that stay on message (your 'intellectuals' i.e Ben Shapiro) and those that just use social media to spread the message.

Basically as long as conservatism and by extension capitialism is still seen as 'viable' politically, the alt right by all of their various names and forms isnt going anywhere.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[HStallion]

The issue off the bat with the OP is thinking the Alt Right is some kind of new, unseen phenomenon for America. The Alt Right is just a rebranding of the ugly bigoted feelings and thoughts that have been with America since the beginning and festering for well over a hundred years since the Civil War. There isn't anything all that new but the name itself and some of the strategies they're using to indoctrinate people which is just using modern methods like social media.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

youtube and twitter need to start giving a fuck

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Deplatforming doesn't really do anything.

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I think I agree with your whole post but I cannot believe this particular statement. It does work.

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

Deplatforming doesn't really do anything.

It may work against loner grifters that go off rails and actually do something fucked up that even the conservative oligarchs do not want to support (Milo, Jones, McInnes) but you're not going to going to stop those that stay on message (your 'intellectuals' i.e Ben Shapiro) and those that just use social media to spread the message.

Basically as long as conservatism and by extension capitialism is still seen as 'viable' politically, the alt right by all of their various names and forms isnt going anywhere.

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Shapiro isn't alt right, he's establishment conservative. They are different beasts.

The alt right is already in a downwards spiral. The public is less tolerant following events like Charlottesville and the talking heads associated with the movement have been largely forced to go to ground. It will always persist in one form or another but it will probably take the end of the Trump administration to confine it to obscurity.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

The issue off the bat with the OP is thinking the Alt Right is some kind of new, unseen phenomenon for America. The Alt Right is just a rebranding of the ugly bigoted feelings and thoughts that have been with America since the beginning and festering for well over a hundred years since the Civil War. There isn't anything all that new but the name itself and some of the strategies they're using to indoctrinate people which is just using modern methods like social media.

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I'm not American and wasn't referring to America specifically though. Hence my mention of English scumbag tommy Robinson.

 

[acheron_xl]

Not sure they can.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Fallen victim is not the right term imo. Exposed as

 

[dapperbandit]

De-platforming is an unimaginative step and the definition of trying to close the door after the horse has bolted. The alt right sphere is a shape shifting movement with multiple levels of radical. Some of the less extreme elements are gateways to the rest but because what they say is relatively innocuous they could never be justifiably shut down without further stoking the conspiratorial outlook these people have and "proving" to them that their freedom is under attack, reinforcing their belief system.

These people and their philosophy thrives under the spotlight of criticism and contempt. For the movement itself I would argue a blackout on media coverage would starve them of attention but for the individuals themselves, I can only say that creating some kind of dialogue where they are put in a position to own up to the logical shortcomings and contradictions of their world view.

 

[TheGhost]

The Republicans need a charismatic chosen one that represents republican values and not alt right values. They need to call for a purge of that sickness from the party. I don't think this will happen until the Republicans are on their very last leg though.

 

[Bonafide]

I think I agree with your whole post but I cannot believe this particular statement. It does work.

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As I said earlier, it is effective against singular targets but it is not effective as a strategy to counter conservatism as an idea. If anything trying to go all in an deplatforming can and has backfired when your side loses power.

Shapiro isn't alt right, he's establishment conservative. They are different beasts.

The alt right is already in a downwards spiral. The public is less tolerant following events like Charlottesville and the talking heads associated with the movement have been largely forced to go to ground. It will always persist in one form or another but it will probably take the end of the Trump administration to confine it to obscurity.

Click to shrink...

There is no distinct difference in the end goals between 'establishment conservatives', 'alt-right', 'reagan conservatives', 'libertarians', or whatever the new conservative label of the day is and believing there is only help them legitimise themselves as a good faith political unit instead of a front for conservative oligarchs to entrench their power.

As other have said, the 'alt right' isnt new, and with social media and decentralized platforms they have the ability to be more flexible than ever.

 

[Winstano]

Fuck the Daily Mail off into the sea, with the Express tied round its ankles for good measure...

 

[Sinfamy]

Revamp capitalism, it's the only real way.
You'll laugh, but it's true.

 

[Geist]

I don't think anything can happen until their idols are removed from power. Anything we attempt to do is undermined by the fact that one of them is President of the United States.

 

[Rendering...]

Shut down Youtube and Fox News would be one step.

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Youtube has plenty of value apart from the political and conspiracy oriented bullshit. It needs better content standards.

Fox News is a propaganda network and needs to be destroyed.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Fuck the Daily Mail off into the sea, with the Express tied round its ankles for good measure...

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There's an awful lot of British tabloids that need to be shut down not to mention their online presence. Which comes back round to deplatforming.

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Deplatforming doesn't really do anything.

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This is a lie.

 

[MrNewVegas]

Deplatform and time. A lot of people I've notice hopping on this didn't care about politics or anything of it's kind. I think a bulk of these people are fairweathers that will go away when the material isn't being thrown at them.

 

[Baji Boxer]

I'm not entirely sure.

-Education is a big problem when Conservatives are printing the books. You get too much bullshit like downplaying slavery and Native American genocide. History taught to children needs to be more honest.

-Keep religion out of public schools entirely, and remove the tax free status for religious schools and organizations that discriminate. Somehow tax these churches where the pastor is clearly using them as a front for personal enrichment and political influence.

-Revamp the Civil Rights Act to give stronger protections for voting rights and LGBTQ protections.

-Convict Donald Trump and any politician compromised by Russia.

-Declare the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and other white supremicist, gangs terrorist organizations.

-Continue deplatforming Neo-Nazis and other hate groups.

-Use effective counter-propaganda online.

Obviously a number of these suggestions are virtually impossible in the near term, and may be impossible for the long term too. One big nut to crack is the rural vs. urban divide. Many rural communities revolve around corrupt churches, and have some extreme white supremecist problems.

 

[Melkezadek]

Youtube has plenty of value apart from the political and conspiracy oriented bullshit. It needs better content standards.

Fox News is a propaganda network and needs to be destroyed.

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Fox News is a huge factor absolutely.

A network designed to create a false reality for white Americans that keeps us, as a nation, divided on every issue. While there are plenty of other Conservative media outlets to choose from, it cannot be overstated how destructive Fox News is.

Its destruction would be the first step in breaking the spell that twists the minds of white Americans and finally allow us to maybe one have true reconciliation. The conversation about race and white supremacy that this country desperately needs to have.

 

[Wackamole]

Parents should take responsibility.
Most parents don't. Most are dumb fucking frustrated assholes who teach their kids to hate.

I see and hear this on a daily basis. Even people who think they're the most loving parents in the world.

 

[Gakidou]

Honestly I just think keep fighting the good fight, you don't have to make sure you get everyone in the room to (pretend to) agree with you but you should at least voice your views in any situations where you feel safe to do so. Express when someone says something that makes you uncomfortable but don't feel bad if you'd rather not start a dialogue that's gonna fuck up your day.

Feel entitled to say something like "that's wrong" or "wow, i disagree with that statement" or "hey dont be like that" and then they might start sealioning you, don't feel like you always have to be on the defensive, maybe you say just say "go look it up, im busy" or "idk, x matters more to me than y, that's just the way i am." They might end up sending you a wall of text or rant at you IRL for ages, and you can just be like "ok, well, you havent changed my mind but good talk i guess" Never feel bad about excusing yourself after you've said your piece. Your time is precious too! Sometimes people say something dodgy and i just make like a grunt of disapproval like "ugh" and they're liek WHAT and im just like "just ugh" and they'll start getting really defensive and i've already checked out lol. A lot of times loads of other people also felt uncomfortable by a statement but they were too scared to speak up. Sometimes they'll just sit and watch and sometimes they'll chime in after you and youll discover new allies. Either way, doing your part successfully is being able to express your thoughts and reveal your stance, regardless of how people take it. Other people's beliefs are not your responsibility, but yours are.

Be willing to make your friendships with people conditional. Don't sell out your beliefs for friendship or companionship by agreeing not to 'get political' (especially when they still seem to be allowed to when it suits them.) No matter who you are, everyone's judgements and friendships hold weight. They'll tell themselves they dont need dumb idiot lame jerks like you, but deep down somewhere it'll eat at them that there's people out there who don't fit their worldview. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your "chill friend" sycophant cred and become that "gets irate and ruins the vibe when people make sexist and racist jokes" friend.

Basically, it's the way we all do our part in conditioning everyone to behave nicely already.

 

[Bonafide]

This is a lie.

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Again, the OP asked how to counter the "alt-right" as an idea not against counter singular grifters.

You cannot just deplatform conservatism as an idea away (especially since a lot of them own the platforms you want to kick people off of). That is lazy and dangerous thinking.

 

[SemRockwel]

Kevin logan's youtube channel offers some insight as he interveiwed some people who graduated out of the alt-right. The generally become center or center right politically.

I would hit on the basics of the alt right being overly extreme and antagonist, and hammer in that the left has produced some objectively good policy for everyone (Social security).

 

[StraySheep]

The Republicans need a charismatic chosen one that represents republican values and not alt right values. They need to call for a purge of that sickness from the party. I don't think this will happen until the Republicans are on their very last leg though.

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That would be huge if it could happen.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

I think the ones truly red-pilled are probably lost. How many Neo-Nazi converts are there generally? I'm really not sure. It's important to stop this shit from spreading and deplatform their speakers. If someone comes up with a method to convert at least some of them, the better.

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Again, the OP asked how to counter the "alt-right" as an idea not against counter singular grifters.

You cannot just deplatform conservatism as an idea away (especially since a lot of them own the platforms you want to kick people off of). That is lazy and dangerous thinking.

Click to shrink...

America spent hundreds of years deplatforming indigenous and African people. It's why they're still at a societal disadvantage today. It works. That deplatforming can be overcome through struggle doesn't mean you don't do it if it suits your needs. You don't stop doing a thing because it's not a perfect solution. You just use multiple solutions. Deplatforming is one of many.

 

[LosDaddie]

Depends on one's definition of Alt Right. There's always going to be conservative voters.

You need to deplatform the Alt Right leaders to stop their bullshit from spreading. That's the first step in the right direction.

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This probably the only thing that can be done.

There's always going to be conservative media, however.

 

[BriGuy]

Give them a bigger "threat" to focus their hate on.

 

[Acorn]

Try to contain their message, and hope the remaining ones lose hope and give up. You can't do dumb debates that only further their reach and you can't make an unwilling racist/bigot a normal person. It doesn't work. They need to want to change themselves.

Best you can hope for is their talking points being unable to say out loud again.

 

[Bonafide]

America spent hundreds of years deplatforming indigenous and African people. It's why they're still at a societal disadvantage today. It works. That deplatforming can be overcome through struggle doesn't mean you don't do it if it suits your needs. You don't stop doing a thing because it's not a perfect solution. You just use multiple solutions. Deplatforming is one of many.

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uh, to be honest I dont know how to respond to this. Maybe it's because have a different definition of "deplatforming" that im not tracking. I would not equate the genocide and abuse of native americans and blacks who pretty much never had a platform to begin with to removing Alex Jones from social media.

For what the OP asked, deplatforming means nothing in the big picture sense. A lot of the owners of these platforms are conservative and have no problem letting these ideas be populated as long as they dont make a big wave that can eat into their profits. Kicking a couple folks like Jones out of the public sight does nothing when there are many more grifters ready to line up and dole out whatever talking points the Koch brothers and their ilk want to put out there.

even in this thread, you have liberals who still think the 'alt-right' is some new crazy movement detached from conservatism and we just need 'regular conservatism' back. smh

 

[staedtler]

It just can't happen. You're always going to have a wide spectrum of beliefs and ones that goes against yours. It's been happening since the dawn of time and as humans we're just wired that way.

 

[Jombie]

They won't, the most you can hope for is that they fade into obscurity.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

The Republicans need a charismatic chosen one that represents republican values and not alt right values. They need to call for a purge of that sickness from the party. I don't think this will happen until the Republicans are on their very last leg though.

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It's never going to happen because alt-right values are Republican values. They're just more naked.

 

[Deleted member 1248]

uh, to be honest I dont know how to respond to this. Maybe it's because have a different definition of "deplatforming" that im not tracking. I would not equate the genocide and abuse of native americans and blacks who pretty much never had a platform to begin with to removing Alex Jones from social media.

For what the OP asked, deplatforming means nothing in the big picture sense. A lot of the owners of these platforms are conservative and have no problem letting these ideas be populated as long as they dont make a big wave that can eat into their profits. Kicking a couple folks like Jones out of the public sight does nothing when there are many more grifters ready to line up and dole out whatever talking points the Koch brothers and their ilk want to put out there.

even in this thread, you have liberals who still think the 'alt-right' is some new crazy movement detached from conservatism and we just need 'regular conservatism' back. smh

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Deplatforming - denying people a voice. You wouldn't deny that these people have lived that.

America just needs to decide that it has the moral courage to deny bigots a voice, the same it way it decided to deny black and native people people a voice for so long.

If you really wanna argue that deplatforming doesn't solve anything, what you'd actually be doing is conceding that many institutions with the power to do it are simply irredeemable by virtue of not doing enough to facilitate the process. I won't argue with that. I just disagree that it can't work. It clearly can work. History proves it.

 

[darz1]

Well since the alt right appeals to racist, sexist and homophobes, we basically just have to get really good at promoting equality.

 

[TheGhost]

It's never going to happen because alt-right values are Republican values. They're just more naked.

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Love your optimism.

 

[Katamari]

Seems to me many of their followers are angry, frustrated and hateful people because of their own social or economic status. Alt-right harnesses and focuses that to certain groups.

These people are difficult to educate since they hate reality. You can't argue or challenge them. It's a waste of time.

 

[Clefargle]

Don't really think you can deradicalize many of these individuals, but you can prevent their lies from spreading through deplatforming, debunking, and deriding them. I call it the D3

 

[Sanjuro]

Could Hitler have made it to Dancing with the Stars?

 

[Saganator]

Our strategy with radicals in the middle east is to just kill them, too bad we didn't try something else on them so we'd have an idea how to deal with our own homegrown radicals.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Love your optimism.

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Being naive about the nature of how the alt-right came to be isn't going to make things better. The fact of the matter is that most if not all of the alt-rights views align pretty closely to the Republican party's ambition and policy. While it's nice to imagine that Republicans would have a come to Jesus moment over this, one would have to ask why they haven't hit their breaking point ages ago. We're having people lavish praise toward Nazis and people having their livelihoods ruined over border walls, and yet Republican leadership at best will fingerwag a bit but do nothing of consequence to speak out against this wave of radicalism.

 

[Typhonsentra]

Biggest thing I try to do is make sure to let the person know that if they bring up Milo or Southern or the like in conversation, I will not let it slide. I point out their bigotry and say they are ridiculous/unacceptable to make them feel uncomfortable bringing them up in common discussion so they won't feel empowered to recruit.