How does one solve the problem of indie games not being up front and center?

[subpar spatula]

The whole debacle with indies and Steam is that Steam isn't able to fully push these indie titles to all the users screens. Isn't this just because the market is saturated? How does Steam or any store solve this problem? There isn't a whole lot of real estate on monitors to showcase all of them. How do indie developers expect Steam and other stores to handle this?

 

[Deleted member 2620]

The only way I see to get around the fact that a shitload of good games are being released these days is to work toward a more dignified society where individual developers no longer need their game to win the viral roulette in order to be able to afford health care and a roof over their head. 🤷

 

[Agent 47]

Invest in marketing outside of the Steam store page. It's not enough to just upload a game to Steam and hope for the best.

 

[modoversus]

The whole debacle with indies and Steam is that Steam isn't able to fully push these indie titles to all the users screens. Isn't this just because the market is saturated? How does Steam or any store solve this problem? There isn't a whole lot of real estate on monitors to showcase all of them. How do indie developers expect Steam and other stores to handle this?

Click to shrink...

Are big publishers also experiencing the same issue? if not, why not?

 

[Kinthey]

Don't think Steam can do much else aside from promoting individual games for free, but that would rightfully be seen as favoritism. The best marketing indies have is positive press and being on Steams "New and Trending" bestseller list which will lead more people to check it out.

 

[subpar spatula]

Are big publishers also experiencing the same issue? if not, why not?

Click to shrink...

Marketing budget? But indie developers don't have that, so that's where the question lies: what can they do?

 

[nsilvias]

maybe advertise your game outside of steam more. steam is meant to be the delivery method, nothing more. in any store front you are playing a game you can not win by expecting to stand out in a sea of other devs trying the same thing. after a while everyone just blends into a huge blob.

 

[modoversus]

Marketing budget? But indie developers don't have that, so that's where the question lies: what can they do?

Click to shrink...

So the games market is not saturated, it's just that Steam sells space in their store and those who do not have big budgets cannot afford to promote inside Steam?

 

[ghibli99]

It's crazy that I know and am informed more about the indie scene from my Switch due to the simple way in which upcoming, new, and featured releases are organized. The Nindies showcases also bring a lot of notable titles to the forefront. Does Steam/Valve do anything like this on YouTube or elsewhere? Seems like a relatively simple way to shine a spotlight on a lot of games that are lost in the flood.

 

[Anno]

The Factory Town dev had a good Twitter thread about this last week. I'll see if I can find it.

Good read.

 

[Gush]

There is no effective solution at least as far as storefront visibility goes. Lack of curation means some games will always slip through the cracks, and curation means that some games simply won't be let on the service to begin with.

Best that can be done is external marketing and promotion probably, but I imagine even that is an uphill battle. Fundamental issue is that there are too many great games, which is bliss for the consumer but can be a nightmare for developers.

 

[SkyOdin]

I'd say that the Switch does a fairly good job of promoting indie games via its news section. Every week, it lists every new game released on the eshop that week in a format that lists the indie titles on equal terms with those from big publishers. Just by following that every week, it is pretty easy to stay aware of indie releases.

 

[Revolsin]

How about not have 500 asset flips clogging up your store at all times

 

[Kinthey]

It's crazy that I know and am informed more about the indie scene from my Switch due to the simple way in which upcoming, new, and featured releases are organized. The Nindies showcases also bring a lot of notable titles to the forefront. Does Steam/Valve do anything like this on YouTube or elsewhere? Seems like a relatively simple way to shine a spotlight on a lot of games that are lost in the flood.

Click to shrink...

Does Nintendo showcase every indie game or only certain ones? If they show every game it's something that's not exactly feasible for steam and if they make a selection you'll have unhappy indie devs that are left out.

The Factory Town dev had a good Twitter thread about this last week. I'll see if I can find it.

Good read.

Click to shrink...

This is the kind of marketing I didn't even really think about but it might be even more efficient for indies than just buying ad space.

 

[Deleted member 1849]

How about not have 500 asset flips clogging up your store at all times

Click to shrink...

Except that isn't what is fucking happening and even if the few asset flips did get removed we would still have the same problem of legitimate indie game saturation.

 

[cnorwood]

By destroying the capitalist system, because within the system money talks

 

[Deleted member 32374]

The only way I see to get around the fact that a shitload of good games are being released these days is to work toward a more dignified society where individual developers no longer need their game to win the viral roulette in order to be able to afford health care and a roof over their head. 🤷

Click to shrink...

You jest but you get half of it.

Saturation.

In 2008-2011, I used to DL and play a lot of experimental and free games. Lots of strange stuff, as well as a bunch of proof of concept mods/conversions of existing games. Not all was good. Some was.

In 2019, it seems as if nearly everyone who was creating the free experimental games/proof of concept stuff has now released a commercial indie game.

How about not have 500 asset flips clogging up your store at all times

Click to shrink...

Spicy take there.

 

[ghibli99]

Does Nintendo showcase every indie game or only certain ones? If they show every game it's something that's not exactly feasible for steam and if they make a selection you'll have unhappy indie devs that are left out.

This is the kind of marketing I didn't even really think about but it might be even more efficient for indies than just buying ad space.

Click to shrink...

Not every indie, but I think the feature from earlier this week covered ~15 in less than 30 minutes. There are far more than that coming out on the eShop, sometimes that many per week just based on my non-fact-checking memory. ;) I guess my point is that they're very easy to find, and as mentioned in that Twitter thread, you can wishlist them easily too, which is helpful in ensuring I don't forget about them.

Edit: And also, it's crazy that after all that developer did for Factory Town, I've never heard of it until today, and I like town building. :( That's a weird realization that either speaks to my own blindness or the real problem of discoverability of Steam titles (and also, I tend to gloss over everything that's in early access).

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Basic income. The problem isn't just marketing, it's that for a lot of devs there's zero cushion when things don't sell.

 

[Timeaisis]

This is going to be a tough pill to swallow for indies, but they need to standout from AAA more than ever. Do really weird experimental shit that literally doesn't exist anywhere else. Making the next Metroidvania is great, but not everyone can bring the quality of Hollow Knight.

 

[Kill3r7]

How does any business or product gain exposure?

 

[TitanicFall]

I'm having a hard time with why it's a problem the store has to solve. I've never purchased a game by browsing the store on a whim. I know what I want before I even launch the store. I get that information through multiple other avenues like podcasts, websites like IGN, and forums like this one. You want to be noticed, then advertise and network.

 

[cyba89]

So the games market is not saturated, it's just that Steam sells space in their store and those who do not have big budgets cannot afford to promote inside Steam?

Click to shrink...

Valve doesn't sell marketing space on Steam.

He's talking about marketing in general: like prominently placed TV spots, online ads (banners, YT spots), E3 stage appearances.

 

[Ferrio]

Are big publishers also experiencing the same issue? if not, why not?

Click to shrink...

Valve just released a 1st party game that has no big bugs, is enjoyable, and had all the exposure in the world cause they own the platform that it's on. It bombed hardcore. There's just too many good games, so there will be winners and losers.

The growth of the indie scene was going to hit a wall eventually, some people don't seem to realize that.

 

[The Vathlonian]

You don't? That's why they're indie?

 

[BlahBlahWords42]

If X amount of people buy indie games, and Y amount of people develop indie games, and the second number is drastically increasing but the first isn't,something has to give sooner or later.

 

[Kyougar]

1. Know your Audience

2. Know your niche and play to it.
- don't contact big influencers who don't have a specific genre or niche, they either ignore you or their audience is no match for your game
- contact small or medium influencers instead, that mostly play games from the genre/niche that your game is part off

3. make yourself more important in the eyes of the streamers audience by giving Interviews and/or hang out in the streamers chat.
- (for example skye storm (150k YT subs, tripled in 2 years) is mostly playing strategy and building games he was a fan of Foundation and just before release the devs did an interview with him)

4. generally, if your game is in alpha, beta or early access, look for youtubers and twitch streamers, find the biggest voices for your games and interact with the influencers, best method is always to just plop up in the twitch chat while the streamer is playing the game

 

[hikarutilmitt]

You jest but you get half of it.

Saturation.

In 2008-2011, I used to DL and play a lot of experimental and free games. Lots of strange stuff, as well as a bunch of proof of concept mods/conversions of existing games. Not all was good. Some was.

In 2019, it seems as if nearly everyone who was creating the free experimental games/proof of concept stuff has now released a commercial indie game.

Spicy take there.

Click to shrink...

It also ain't really wrong, just not a magic bullet.

 

[Kyuur]

More storefronts is the solution. The concept of a one-stop shop doesn't scale infinitely.

 

[Ferrio]

More storefronts is the solution. The concept of a one-stop shop doesn't scale infinitely.

Click to shrink...

This is not a solution, this is burying your head in the sand. We just going to keep creating a new store front every time one becomes saturated? The overall market is *STILL* saturated.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

It also ain't really wrong, just not a magic bullet.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. Remove the 'asset flips' (an overblown problem in my opinion, popularized by Jim S, who used to better when he was more positive about gaming) and you still run into the oversaturation problem.

 

[BernardoOne]

Unsolvable problem. The only way to "fix it" is picking winners and losers, arbitrarily leaving devs to die because of curation.

 

[aerozombie]

The market predominantly wants the bigger titles, so the inter-store marketing skews towards them. Especially since 30% of $60 is more than 30% of $20. So not only do store fronts get a bigger margin, they inherently expect higher sales volume of those larger titles. This is more of a developer issue to find alternative marketing strategies than expect the store to give them a golden ticket.

 

[Laser Man]

Two options, you throw a ton of cash into a marketing machine or you find your Blair Witch gimmick which catapults you into the spotlight for free. If you simply bank on being seen because there is nobody else around stealing the show then good luck trying to make that into a regular marketing model for everyone, because if everyone does it then you wouldn't be the only one around now would you?

 

[Ferrio]

Exactly. Remove the 'asset flips' (an overblown problem in my opinion, popularized by Jim S, who used to better when he was more positive about gaming) and you still run into the oversaturation problem.

Click to shrink...

Yep people want to frame this as good indies vs shovelware indies. No this is great indies vs good indies problem. The bar for success has raised dramatically, and like always there's a bit of luck involved. Even games that are of good quality have a possibility to fail.

 

[Deleted member 41931]

Some sort of hidden gems of the week thing could work. Something that highlights newly released games like Where the Water Tastes Like Wine or Blossom Tale that have had really postive reception, but haven't sold well.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

Yep people want to frame this as good indies vs shovelware indies. No this is great indies vs good indies problem. The bar for success has raised dramatically, and like always there's a bit of luck involved. Even games that are of good quality have a possibility to fail.

Click to shrink...

Yes.

I think people forget the days when the steam store had under 1000 games. Those where the days of Super Meat Boy and Braid.

 

[MillionIII]

Have editors that their job is to highlight those games like most digital stores.

 

[Nitpicker_Red]

The Factory Town dev had a good Twitter thread about this last week. I'll see if I can find it.

Good read.

Click to shrink...

To be clear, the link in the Tweet is a 404, the info is in the Twitter thread by clicking the Tweet itself, contrary to what the formatting would imply.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

Unsolvable problem. The only way to "fix it" is picking winners and losers, arbitrarily leaving devs to die because of curation.

Click to shrink...

Yup, you either showcase literally everything (practically impossible, leading to tons of 'WHY ARE YOU SHOWING ME THIS VALVE?!' complaints) or handpick games like the Nindies, which as you say, is picking winners and losers.

 

[Bhonar]

It's not a problem

Devs/publishers should do their own fucking marketing, why should Valve be responsible for that?

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Exactly. Remove the 'asset flips' (an overblown problem in my opinion, popularized by Jim S, who used to better when he was more positive about gaming) and you still run into the oversaturation problem.

Click to shrink...

Removing the asset flips would go a way towards helping, though. Remember back when Greenlight was a thing? As soon as Steam just said "eff it, release all you want" they got flooded with garbage. Some of them are just someone trying to make something and release it, and more power to them, but some are downright garbage that is literally shoved out to make a few bucks on unsuspecting people. I'd like to know how Steam refunds affected those particular models of release, but a lot of those games do still exist.

The other problem is that the system in place to suggest games to you is flawed. One part is that a lot of the suggestions are based on tags and anyone can add a tag to a game even if they don't own it. I can't tell you how many games with anime art have the "nudity" tag on them despite having nothing even close to it, not even a bare ass.

 

[Crayon]

If every other little game is one or two persons personal dream, it will be this way. It is not in steam's power to fix this.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

Removing the asset flips would go a way towards helping, though. Remember back when Greenlight was a thing? As soon as Steam just said "eff it, release all you want" they got flooded with garbage. Some of them are just someone trying to make something and release it, and more power to them, but some are downright garbage that is literally shoved out to make a few bucks on unsuspecting people. I'd like to know how Steam refunds affected those particular models of release, but a lot of those games do still exist.

The other problem is that the system in place to suggest games to you is flawed. One part is that a lot of the suggestions are based on tags and anyone can add a tag to a game even if they don't own it. I can't tell you how many games with anime art have the "nudity" tag on them despite having nothing even close to it, not even a bare ass.

Click to shrink...

I remember greenlight. Back then, it was complaints that green light was keeping good games off the store and trolls were greenlighting garbage as a joke. The flood opened and there was trash but there was also good games. I'm not sure increasing the barrier of entry is the answer.

I haven't had any issues with recommendations given to me by steam. I usually don't use them, as Era has my back.

I absolutely agree that improvements can be made to tags and reviews. 100%.

 

[TaySan]

Market your game outside of Steam. Steam isn't responsible for your games success. You are.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I remember greenlight. Back then, it was complaints that green light was keeping good games off the store and trolls were greenlighting garbage as a joke. The flood opened and there was trash but there was also good games. I'm not sure increasing the barrier of entry is the answer.

I haven't had any issues with recommendations given to me by steam. I usually don't use them, as Era has my back.

I absolutely agree that improvements can be made to tags and reviews. 100%.

Click to shrink...

The only time I notice games Steam recommends me is if it's something that catches my eye and/or I didn't know was released. But most of what Steam recommends for my queue is anime, action, female protagonist, then suddenly a boatload of AAA titles I couldn't give two craps about. and no matter how many times I tel it that I'm not interested in one, it will inevitably do it again.

Reason: the goddamned tags match other stuff I play. Even filtering by studios would at least help as a lot of what I buy is released by the same teams/publishers.

Market your game outside of Steam. Steam isn't responsible for your games success. You are.

Click to shrink...

This is also totally true. No way, if I were to make a game, would I just toss it onto Steam and wait for money to roll in.

 

[Rathorial]

Some ideas off the top of my head (no promise of quality):

• Provide more tools and methodology to indie devs to market their game on Steam, or Valve link devs to paid resources that will help them market their game.
• Work with Twitch to have them recommend certain indie games each week, and give those streaming the games more visibility on the front page of Twitch.
• Continue to evolve automated algorithms like Valve that recommend content to you based on your tastes, which is necessary given ALL digital stores over time increase their total catalog of games.
• Valve should feature weekly or daily personal favorite games from humans at their company, and from guests at other developers/publishers who recommend games they like.
• Make the Steam curator system matter more, with quick twitch/youtube highlights rather than just text + picture to show off games. Then to encourage curators to do the work to highlight and keep up with new games, offer affiliate link kick-backs for curators that lead steam users to purchases from their page.
• If players don't like a certain developer/publisher, let them filter that dev out from their store, so games they would buy can take up that wasted space. Maybe make it last 6 months, and see if the user wants to continue doing this.