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How Netflix Is Disrupting, Empowering Japan's Anime Industry
- Thread starter Shard Shinjuku
- Start date
Just no more 3D anime, please Netflix. Without at least an OVA budget it looks awful
*Looks at poster who clearly knows nothing about FLCL*
*Looks at poster who clearly knows nothing about FLCL*
The anime industry is in serious need of a reboot.
What happened with the moéblob situation is similar to the Brony phenomenon, but on a much larger time frame and scale, and with much higher stakes. In the past, shows written for young girls were written distinctly for young girls. As time went on into the '80s, they developed deep otaku followings, but no one really paid much attention, other than the opportunity for expanded merchandise sales. The bread and butter of the industry at the time. But then the economic bubble collapsed over there toward the end of the '90s, and as people cut back on spending, otaku became the prime consumers of merchandise, and more importantly, DVDs. Production committees recognized this, so they started changing and exaggerating elements of the shows to attract otaku, and eventually pander to them to extreme degrees that might alienate the original audience but maintain profits.
Add to that all the generic wish fulfillment stories that flood the market, and dozens of generic harem shows every year.
The more questionable bits of modern TV anime are also due to the economic collapse. There's always been nudity and light fan service, but the outright perversion was generally "contained" in the OVA home video segment that flourished in the '90s. Well, the bottom fell out of that market, with belts being tightened and fewer companies willing to invest big money in OVAs, so the perversion migrated over to late-night TV anime to attract those otaku would would spend their last penny to get what they want, with the goal of subsequent DVD sales.
It's be great if Netflix could help upend the market, and contain the otaku in their own bubble again.
What happened with the moéblob situation is similar to the Brony phenomenon, but on a much larger time frame and scale, and with much higher stakes. In the past, shows written for young girls were written distinctly for young girls. As time went on into the '80s, they developed deep otaku followings, but no one really paid much attention, other than the opportunity for expanded merchandise sales. The bread and butter of the industry at the time. But then the economic bubble collapsed over there toward the end of the '90s, and as people cut back on spending, otaku became the prime consumers of merchandise, and more importantly, DVDs. Production committees recognized this, so they started changing and exaggerating elements of the shows to attract otaku, and eventually pander to them to extreme degrees that might alienate the original audience but maintain profits.
Add to that all the generic wish fulfillment stories that flood the market, and dozens of generic harem shows every year.
The more questionable bits of modern TV anime are also due to the economic collapse. There's always been nudity and light fan service, but the outright perversion was generally "contained" in the OVA home video segment that flourished in the '90s. Well, the bottom fell out of that market, with belts being tightened and fewer companies willing to invest big money in OVAs, so the perversion migrated over to late-night TV anime to attract those otaku would would spend their last penny to get what they want, with the goal of subsequent DVD sales.
It's be great if Netflix could help upend the market, and contain the otaku in their own bubble again.
They are not pirates. They get licenses and pay the creators of the shows.
It's not really much money at all so just buy merch and novels/manga/light novels if you want to support a show.
Japan is the only place where borders between adult and family entertainment are not as definite as in the West. Eg a director can participate in a sex or eroguro movie and the next day direct a children's movie.
Happened with Tomomi Mochizuki and the director of Boku no Pico who also directed Beyond Green Gables.
In the West few would go that route and Disney would never dare hiring Ralph Bakshi.
It is about the licenses they did not pay prior to becoming legal. Others werent so lucky.
In my opinion you are wrong, Art shouldn't be dictated that way. If we start this then we can directly jump to gore and other violent scenes because these somehow are offensive too. I would consider myself casual as well and understand that not everybody wants to see everything. But as mentioned before, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it should get nuked. Otherwise I would have a lot of stuff that should get nuked too. Live and let live has always been a good motto.
The problem I see here is that you think of the shower scenes as something bad. General nudity is not sexual in any way, you in your mind make it sexual. I say that as someone who has been to a lot of spa's and has seen a lot of people naked without getting an "instant boner". I can't deny that some stuff is pandering but as long as nobody real gets hurt I don't care, Art is Art. Otherwise we should ban classic paintings with violence, for example "Saturn eats his son" by Goya (I believe, not sure off the top of my head) because it somehow promotes cannibalism. Videogames had this discussion for a long time with violence therefore we should all know how this feels.
And I think the number would be totally fine. Art isn't always a masterpiece.
I wouldn't want the Otaku market to die, all the merchandise can be pretty fun even if I never brought anything. Obviously you should always refrain from actions in the real world that have to do with actual people that might get hurt. In the end, would it have been better if the industry simply vanished because nobody brought anything anymore?
I personally think this shouldn't matter. I could direct an adult movie and then direct a lighthearted children movie. I don't understand why this matters so much, the human mind is so flexible yet we confine ourselfs into stupid categories.
Definitely. I mean, I love Dragon Ball Super, but I'd love it if they just took breaks between arcs so the next one could have more consistently-good animation. The most recent arc had this one fight that was gloriously animated, but the episodes around it clearly had a hit to their budget,
Makes me curious if Netflix is going to wind up snatching the two upcoming SAO series.
Except Netflix was specifically hiring people to specialize in marketing and acquiring anime not to long along.
And I love Toonami as much as the next guy, hell I got here through the Toonami Discord, but they are 100% the wrong horse to bet on for the "future of anime." Television ratings are on the decline, especially with anime because most people get their fill either by streaming or sailing the seven seas.
Sorry to disappoint but things aren't actually as roses and sunshine as they would seem to be from just that article.
This thread goes in on it a bit https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/923184687534653440
Which makes me think of another problem: The anime industry itself has slowly filled with otaku over the years. It used to be that artists and storytellers rose up through the ranks, but now the biggest consumers have become the producers, and that's not exactly a good thing.
I'm not calling for the otaku market to die. I'm just saying it would be nice if otaku-oriented anime was more or less contained in its own bubble like it used to be, rather than infecting nearly everything else like it is now. Right now the industry has to pander to them just to turn a profit.
Anyway, everyone who's interested in how and why anime, and Japanese pop culture in general, has changed should read this in-depth five-part article:
The Great Shift in Japanese Pop Culture
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-two/
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-three/
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-four/
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-five/
The big question is why are anime houses fucking thmeselves over by agreeing to shit shitty deals that leave them in a worst position even if theyre succesful.
Anime is by all standards making a lot more money, deals need to be restructured so that prod houses can be fairly compensated.
Anime is by all standards making a lot more money, deals need to be restructured so that prod houses can be fairly compensated.
Because competition.
Anime isn't really profitable though. You gotta sell books and merch and the market for that stuff is the local Otaku crowd.
A lot of the "Netflix Original" anime ends up being shows that are already airing that buy the licensing rights to and they don't simulcast. Don't see how this cash'll help improve the anime industry. That said I am looking forward to the new devilish show.
Thank you for the article, will read once I have time for it. =)
Then how could it shift back a bit?
Not that I don't enjoy most parts of Otaku culture. But I understand and respect that people want more Animes with mature themes tackling diverse subjects, I fully support that. I foundly remember watching Ghost in the Shell and all those philosophical references and thoughts it provokes.
Maybe find other ways to make more mature Animes more profitable then Otaku Animes, even if hardcore fans always will spend a lot of money on the things they love. Probably doesn't help that the world gets more grim and more people use entertainment to keep their sanity. =/
Slightly offtopic:
Is there a way to save specific posts? I would like to come back to the post I quoted without having to look through my answers and the threads.
On a visual level I just hope Netflix give us more stuff like Little Witch Academia and less Neo Yokio. Not commenting on the actual content of the latter as I haven't seen it, but visually... yikes... I can't handle it.
OP
OP
The production committee gets the profits. Animation houses are contractors.
This, and DVD sales. That's why DVDs in Japan cost like $80 for a handful of episodes. Otaku are compulsive collectors, and are willing to pay that.
I get that, thats nothing new, however the sotuation needs to change and better contracts need to be written up. Its not sustainable and both parties are to blame. One is too greedy and the contractors are too willing to step over one another.
I think the Top carries the most blame. The studios need contracts to keep the lights on and keep people employed, they simply can't just stop working or not taking work otherwise everybody looses their job. In the end its another victim of the stage "profits at all cost, race to the bottom, more profits each year".
I guess animators also a fan of anime, their hobby their passion, they willing to sacrifice to work a lot for their dream job and companies take advantage of that.
If this means that studio employees get paid more and aren't forced to churn out 60 episodes a year with a one week lead time between each episode production, then I'm all for it. No need to do a constant churn to keep things in the forefront of the fandom when you can do 13-20 episodes, toss them on Netflix, and reap the benefits.
Musou Tensei
Guest
Nah, it will be some westernized garbage in an anime coat, if I want that i could just watch/read Marvel crap. People who think that this will bring back how anime were in the 80's and 90's are just delusional.
Ummmm, let's switch gears from this atrocity and highlight a upcoming Netflix anime, with quality POC representation that doesn't look like complete trash
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...-cross-cultural-future-of-anime/#eb461cf1b9e5
I think Netflix investing into a Japanese animated production, created by a black animator from NYC, is a magnificent example of how this new initiative is somewhat revolutionary.
HOLY SHIT CANNON BUSTERS IS COMING TO NETLIX???!
WHAT'S THE VOICE ACTING LIKE
PLEASE DON'T BE ANOTHER URBANCE
This probably would work better without seasons and more content providers. On top of having more flexibility.
I would imagine it is that bad because TV needs content to actually show something, if there is not enough what are you going to do. If you remove one piece everything will probably crumble. =/
I am all for them having enough time to work relaxed at on a high level, this would improve all genres and produce more quality work. But due to everything being for profit this will always be pretty hard.
Now if one benevolent company controls all studios and can space out everything in a fair manner then it would totally different. Studios would have enough time for everything, the quality of most shows would rise across the board and there still would be enough stuff to show daily.
How was Anime back then anyway? Most only remember the high profile titles and movies. For each of the high profile ones you had also quite a few lower that not everybody enjoys.
Honestly Shirobako shows quite a few problems you could easily solve if profit wasn't the most desired end. Especially the time issue. =/
Oh shit I forgot that something like that existed in Jojo.
I feel like that was a moment that was supposed to set up the villain as super creepy, but because of pandering and such ended up being super creepy itself.
But I generally agree that this was not a good episode. I'm just glad that this isn't the norm for the series.
No animation is produced like that in general; it was hyperbole. But it is easy to see the huge quality difference between anime that toss out 45+ episodes a year versus the ones that do 20 or less; art is more consistent and there's generally less filler.
I've heard about that, but I've never sat down to watch it. I'll add it to the list.
I'm sure you're right; I'm clearly coming from a perspective of someone not in Japan, and they obviously require more anime shows to fill time slots than we do, or rather, they have more anime to fill time slots than we do, so that would lead to larger gaps in shows.
Please, Netflix pick up berserk. After castlevania I imagine they could do a good adaption. Make Berserk GoT tier
Ohhhh
Given the way things are, I can only see them changing if animators unionize.
Of course, if that happens, everything will be outsourced to Korea.
I am also not in Japan but its a logical conclusion you can come to if you think about TV in general and watch Shirobako. If a TV has nothing to broadcast they loose money and viewers loose interest. Anime also is often pretty close to themes that are currently important or in the "Zeitgeist". Just look at Yaoi Animes recently or those that talk about the hobby (Anime and Videogames). Other TV shows often can be produces much in advance as they have a set narrative. Obviously Anime has set narratives too, but if you have a show about a specific topic and your are broadcasting it way to late then most viewers loose interest.
In the end most of these issues will only change once (if) we reach a society were profit and growth aren't the "holy gods" anymore. Otherwise people will still be driven by their greed and exploit others to have more then them.
Obviously I am talking about the whole world. Those at the top will always outsource if they can, they simply waste their supposedly existing intelligence to make numbers higher each year. =/
Ummmm, let's switch gears from this atrocity and highlight a upcoming Netflix anime, with quality POC representation that doesn't look like complete trash
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...-cross-cultural-future-of-anime/#eb461cf1b9e5
I think Netflix investing into a Japanese animated production, created by a black animator from NYC, is a magnificent example of how this new initiative is somewhat revolutionary.
WHAAAAAAAAAT! IS THIS
GLAD I CLICKED THIS THREAD
I like that Netflix is bringing more anime to the west. What I don't want is for them to westernize anime. Western videogame publishers like EA and Microsoft have expanded the videogame market immensely. But the heart and soul of what I loved about videogames has long since gone. I don't want that to happen to anime.
Ummmm, let's switch gears from this atrocity and highlight a upcoming Netflix anime, with quality POC representation that doesn't look like complete trash
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...-cross-cultural-future-of-anime/#eb461cf1b9e5
I think Netflix investing into a Japanese animated production, created by a black animator from NYC, is a magnificent example of how this new initiative is somewhat revolutionary.
Wooow - getting some Bebop vibes here. Awesome.
Absolutely.
I enjoy their current output mostly. Would love for them to pickup and adapt a major series like Berserk at some point. Or perhaps a reboot of some classics like Trigun or Bebop.
If this means we continue to get content like Castlevania I'm all for it.
Ummmm, let's switch gears from this atrocity and highlight a upcoming Netflix anime, with quality POC representation that doesn't look like complete trash
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...-cross-cultural-future-of-anime/#eb461cf1b9e5
I think Netflix investing into a Japanese animated production, created by a black animator from NYC, is a magnificent example of how this new initiative is somewhat revolutionary.
That looks amazing. Getting serious Cowboy Bebop and Trigun vibes from this.
Please don't reboot old classics, it doesn't make sense and they will only get ruined in the end. They will remove stuff, change the narrative and mold it so its more western to reach the American market... (which for some reason always is "soooo" important).
They will absolutely do that, otherwise it has little audience outside of Japan and maybe Europe. There is already one that wants reboots of old series... .
Yeah, I mean, whoever has a problem with that scene probably hasn't seen the show at all. Its incredibly relatable.
But they're legal now, unlike there other 20+ services that still do it illegally.
The problem with services like CrunchyRoll and Funimation is that their subtitles and dubs are just really bad.
Funimation also just had a really terrible website.
Sure, but it's one of the few places that dare stream to my region.
The other one being Netflix. So kudos to them for bringing more anime over here.
Most people probably underestimate this factor. If the subtitles are bad then most will go for Fansubs, therefore you should be better then them. Also regional subtitles for Europe, because I know a lot of people that simply don't watch most Anime because they only have English subtitles. They also seem to underestimate how much fans care about quality in everything, especially if you have watched Anime for a long time. Seeing subtitles that simply sound wrong or don't entirely match the spoken content puts me slightly off. =/
I think raunchiness shouldn't matter outside of personal opinion and maybe pace and atmosphere.