How Quantic Dream defended itself against allegations of a 'toxic culture' - Interview with Cage, employees and others

[Adamska]

Some quotes:

“We stayed calm and answered their questions, but they ignored all our answers because these were not in line with their own personal theories. In their articles, they rearranged and truncated my answers in order to make me say what they wanted,” Cage said. “Then they sent their questions to our Employee Representatives, who answered in all honesty that they never heard any complaint and that the allegations were complete nonsense to them.”

Cage added, “The story they wanted is very simple: Quantic Dream and their top managers are very successful … but this success was built on a toxic atmosphere and perverted management.”

Cage said the company has dozens of formal testimonials from employees and former employees saying they had no issues with the company.

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“We were really surprised, because we are very strict about the company’s management,” Cage said. “We have internal and external accountants, lawyers, administrators and shareholders, and doing anything illegal in a small company like ours would be hard to hide. We seriously investigated internally again and questioned third parties to understand if we had done anything wrong, but again we couldn’t find anything.”

Cage said three different authorities backed up the company. These included a Tax Control audit in 2018, which was a complete audit from three major audit companies, one American and two French, who did due diligence about the company in the context of an investment from a company listed on NASDAQ. And it also included a government body (called “URSSAF”), which sent two people onsite for three weeks to check all the employees and directors’ contracts, salaries, taxes, financial accounts, and transactions — including the contract and transaction of the director that was described as illegal in an article.

“All these independent institutions reported that the company was very well managed, that it respected the law in all aspects, and that they had no issues to report,” Cage said.

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"Anyone who reads the verdict can see that this is utterly misleading, but their version was the one that some people wanted to hear, so they just interpreted the court’s findings in order to serve their own editorial appetite,” Cage said.

He said the court noted, “Contrary to what the employee claims, there is no evidence of a deterioration in working conditions within the company.”

Another French journalist who was not connected to the published stories sided with Cage and Quantic Dream. Vincent Jolly, senior reporter at Le Figaro magazine, told me in an email (and speaking only for himself) that he did some reporting on the case and chose not to write a story about allegations of a toxic culture.

Jolly added, “Having covered Quantic Dream frequently in the past years and knowing some of the employees myself, I just don’t see unbiased evidence that would support the claim of the investigations. There is no smoking gun. There is, from my point of view, just no story here".

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Much more here.

Honestly QD handled things very much professionally, IMO. It was very clear that something was wrong with the way the story was being reported what with how every decision surrounding what made it to the court was favorable towards QD, but I suppose the intent was to make some sort of big exposé where there wasn't really anything illegal or abusive going on. In any case, it also seems the investigations and audits concluded that the company is actually a great place to work, so I hope this can be put behind since this is one of the best studios out there.

 

[Gilver]

Does anyone have that pic at Quantum Dream of the picture of some farting ballsack on the wall?

 

[Dragoon]

If they would have been guilty, there would have already been 50+ messages instead of 1 by now.

 

[Staticneuron]

Cage said three different authorities backed up the company. These included a Tax Control audit in 2018, which was a complete audit from three major audit companies, one American and two French, who did due diligence about the company in the context of an investment from a company listed on NASDAQ. And it also included a government body (called “URSSAF”), which sent two people onsite for three weeks to check all the employees and directors’ contracts, salaries, taxes, financial accounts, and transactions — including the contract and transaction of the director that was described as illegal in an article.

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That sounds pretty intense. I wonder how this happened despite all those investigations.

Another tidbit

“I honestly believe that a lot of people who are involved in this feel that because the cause is a good one — that we should defend vulnerable employers from sinister workplace situations — that those in the media doing the investigating felt like the ends justify the means,” Williams said. “Even if they can’t prove something, and even if they haven’t got the right people or the right facts, it’s kind of OK. Because what they are doing is noble and they have this oral license.”

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I also thought the "truth" would be an important factor in being noble.

 

[Adamska]

If they would have been guilty, there would have already been 50+ messages instead of 1 by now.

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That's actually not unlikely.

Also, let me add that I encourage anyone who's willing to comment to read the piece in its entirety, especially the comments from the employees. There's just too much content to condense in a single post.

 

[L Thammy]

The former IT manager, who declined to be interviewed for this story and referred GamesBeat to the articles already published, allegedly accepted the apology. But then he later informed the company that he wanted the creator to be dismissed immediately, and that he wanted to be compensated with one year’s salary (plus 40%), otherwise he would “tell the whole story to the press,” Quantic Dream said.


To the company, this sounded like blackmail, Cage said.


“We tried to talk. We offered a neutral mediator, which he accepted first then refused. We tried to find solutions, but he rejected all options,” Cage said.


Three other colleagues of IT manager in the IT department resigned and also asked for compensation. The IT manager sought help from government institutions, but Cage said that Quantic Dream provided explanations and documents. In each case, the investigating bodies either closed or resolved the investigations. Then the IT manager reached out to French journalists, sending the 12 inappropriate pictures, and three journalists responded.

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Maybe it's known and I just haven't followed the story, but it goes through a whole bit about how responsibily Quantum Dream was acting and then we have four people resigning over this.

 

[John Harker]

For what it’s worth, I have friends there, and they are pretty happy and have been for awhile.

thats less to say about the issues that some of had which I’m sure were rather personal, and more to say that the situation appears to at least not be universal. I hope everyone can feel the same happiness, should be a priority

 

[Adamska]

That sounds pretty intense. I wonder how this happened despite all those investigations.

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But that's the thing, once the disgruntled employee had given his story to the press, those outlets ran with it. There wasn't much concern with QD's statements or the measures they took. That said, it's interesting to note that what took place actually seems to have strengthened their internal investigations and audit measures, so employees going forward should be even safer.

 

[ghostcrew]

Does anyone have that pic at Quantum Dream of the picture of some farting ballsack on the wall?

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I’m not gonna post NSFW images here (of farting ballsacks or more egregious examples) but, yeah...

Sexism and homophobia constitute one of the "comic" springs of choice of the series. Others are bad play on words on surnames, poop, sodomy, overweight, a little bit of Nazis and a lot of nudity. One of the images, soberly titled "Accountants.jpg", for example, shows two of Quantic Dream female employees’ faces pasted on muscular men bodies, and delicately subtitled: "All women are born equal, but the best become WHORE (sic)».

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The most shocking [images] present Quantic Dream's collaborators in sexual positions, adorned with homophobic or sexist slurs, or even made up to look like Nazis

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Others have apparently witnessed homophobic or racist jokes. One incident involved a burglary caught on CCTV. After watching, Cage allegedly asked an employee of Tunisian origin, "Is that a cousin of yours?"

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Cage said the allegations were "ridiculous, absurd and grotesque".

"You want to talk about homophobia?" he said. "I work with Ellen Page, who fights for LGBT rights. You want to talk about racism? I work with Jesse Williams, who fights for civil rights in the USA... Judge me by my work."

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No idea why anyone would think that this was a toxic workplace...

 

[Gilver]

I’m not gonna post NSFW images here (of farting ballsacks or more egregious examples) but, yeah...

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Was it that detailed? damn.

 

[devSin]

So professional, Sony couldn't run fast enough to get away from them.

 

[Staticneuron]

I guess they are lucky that this didn't effect them to bad and that they also took stronger measures to make the workplace better. I find that it is interesting that companies have all these rules when the reason that they have them is because of incidents like these.

I’m not gonna post NSFW images here (of farting ballsacks or more egregious examples) but, yeah...
No idea why anyone would think that this was a toxic workplace...

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So let me get this straight. The evidence you provide includes some of the images in which the employee got an official reprimand for. A comment about something Cage "allegedly" said. And an image if penis with a farting ballsack? While The last one is weird, how can that be an issue when so many agencies investigated the company? That means that no one complained, or the image is not violating some sort of law. The Allegedly is an odd one because even Jurno's have anonymous sources. And they didn't even refer to one for that accusation. And lastly the article already explains all that went down with the photoshop images, including the time frame and how the problem came around.

So no, it doesn't sound like a toxic place to work at. I have worked at toxic places and there isn't only a handful of complaints about that type of a place in years. There is BS that goes down daily, weekly, monthly in places like those and there is always going to be more than a few that complain.

While I dislike the idea of passing an opinion on a place that I have never been to myself, from what I have heard, is that QD is not as bad as they were originally portrayed.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

So it'll be hard for outsiders to tell what happened before the libel lawsuits are settled. If we take what the company says at face value, it sounds like they were the victims of some kind of blackmail. Yet, it's hard for me to take them seriously when they say shit like this:

This story shows that we should all be very concerned about how information can easily be manipulated, but also about how politics gets into video games. Quantic Dream doesn’t do politics, but we refuse to be instrumentalized by people who use our notoriety to promote their political agenda or sell their articles.

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this is the kind of tripe people on kotakuinaction would post

 

[L Thammy]

This article seems a lot more measured than the quotes in the OP make it seem, honestly. It contains a lot of quotes from various actors involved here, whether they're beneficial or detrimental to Cage's position. For example:

Regarding the third-party audits, Dan Israel, one of the Mediapart writers, responded, “We asked a lot of questions on these issues. If David Cage and Guillaume de Fondaumière had shared these explanations with us, we would have quoted them on that. They did not: They only explained that there was an audit that did complete due diligence about the company, and that everything was deemed legal. We included this comment in our article. We were meticulous in including all the answers they gave us on these important matters.”


In response to a query from GamesBeat, journalist William Audereau, author of the Le Monde article, said in an email, “Our investigation spanned over three months. I consulted extensive internal documentation, talked with around 20 former or current employees, including some very high profile, who all confirmed the stories. While investigating on their own, Mediapart (a major French investigation website) and CanardPC (one of the most independent video game outlets) reached the same conclusions. Quantic Dream calling it ‘falsehoods’ or a ‘sensationalized story’ sounds like another awkward PR spin from the company, and this is a pity for people who suffered, and for some of them still suffer from what they described as a toxic workplace.”

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[Fisty]

So did they just have no one testify to any of the allegations? I'm confused

 

[Adamska]

No idea why anyone would think that this was a toxic workplace...

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I mean, there's plenty of statements that explicitly say it's not a toxic environment, but I suppose some will always think otherwise. Personally, I'm glad that the people who work there don't feel they're being subject to any sort of abuse, even if a few employees tried to exploit this possibility (and lost).

 

[ghostcrew]

The article ends with Cage’s takeaway from the experience was employees that lied, media that can’t be trusted and ‘haters’ on the Internet that don’t like his serious games.

cool.

 

[Staticneuron]

This article seems a lot more measured than the quotes in the OP make it seem, honestly. It contains a lot of quotes from various actors involved here, whether they're beneficial or detrimental to Cage's position. For example:

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Didn't he name the third party companies? Is there something that prevents the media to reaching out to those companies and asking them directly? Is it a french legal thing?

 

[Adamska]

employees that lied

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They did lose their suits so far.

media that can’t be trusted

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I suppose we can trust everything Fox News talking heads spew?

and ‘haters’ on the Internet that don’t like his serious games

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Natch. In the sense that there's plenty of haters, obviously. It's not wrong to point out that, I suppose.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

I really wanna google "farting ballsack" but I'm scared of the potential outrageous porn results and what the NSA will think of me going forward :(

 

[YukiCT]

I remember reading Quantic dream thread and it did not seem like they were cleared at all.

Quantic Dream has been condemned by French Court over still ongoing cases of employees harassments & toxic working conditions

Essaye-toi mon homme. POU-AH ! CASSÉ !

www.resetera.com

“The image had no specific angle (not homophobic, racist or misogynist, as the Labor Court confirmed), but it was definitely not acceptable,” Cage said

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If you read the tryagame.fr article linked in the OP, you see that the judge also called the photoshops "homophobic, misogynistic, racist, and profoundly vulgar", and acknowledged that this was going on for years internally in the QD office. The judge said the employer was at fault for this.

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Two conflicting information.

 

[L Thammy]

Didn't he name the third party companies? Is there something that prevents the media to reaching out to those companies and asking them directly? Is it a french legal thing?

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Hell if I know.

The article is generally supportive to Cage, and honestly a lot of it makes me uncomfortable with how it

The article makes it seem like it's a one disgruntled employee who was trying to profit off of quitting, but if you had other people quitting over it, I can't help but feel like we're missing something.

I remember reading Quantic dream thread and it did not seem like they were cleared at all.

Two conflicting information.

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Again going by just this article, Quantic Dream was actually fined for this whole picture thing because the judge ruled that they should have stopped it at the very beginning, but the judge also thought that the employee was trying to profit by fabricating an image of a toxic workplace.

 

[Slayven]

Hard to trust the dude when he uses "I can't be racist, i worked with a black guy once"

 

[L Thammy]

Quantic Dream had to pay the IT manager compensation of €5,000 ($5,572) because the court ruled that the company should have anticipated the potential risk of an employee editing pictures and should have prohibited this activity from the start. Cage claims that the French journalists twisted the meaning of the ruling, interpreting it as a loss for the company. That tone carried over into international articles, like this one in Variety, with the headline, “Detroit Developer Quantic Dream Loses Court Case Over Harassment.” The French journalists in particular continue to interpret this outcome as a victory for the plaintiffs.

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This is the part which mentions the compensation. And a few paragraphs above:

The IT manager asked for €115,000 ($128,215) and the reclassifying of his resignation into unjustified dismissal (in France, a dismissal has to be justified on very serious grounds, otherwise the employee is entitled to significant compensation).


The judge rejected the IT manager’s request for compensation and ruled that the IT manager had voluntarily resigned. The company believed that the threat to tell the press unless the employee was fired was “totally unacceptable.” The judge also rendered similar verdicts for two other employees from the IT team, and a third case is under appeal. In the two other cases, the judge ruled that the employees were “instrumentalized by others” in hopes of getting higher compensation, Cage said.

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[SinCItyAssassin]

I've read this entire thing rolling my eyes.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Hard to trust the dude when he uses "I can't be racist, i worked with a black guy once"

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Yeah, this.

 

[Tfritz]

that's an... interesting framing for an article

 

[L Thammy]

Didn't he name the third party companies? Is there something that prevents the media to reaching out to those companies and asking them directly? Is it a french legal thing?

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Got a little curious about this and did some quick googling on the auditing firms he mentions. The URSSAF he mentions seems to be not actually a government body, but a series of private organizations that collect money for social security. At a glance I don't think it's suspicious or anything though. I can't find the People Vox he mentioned; what I found instead a warehouse management software company by that name.

EDIT: Also found a People-Vox which specialzies in... electronic voting, I think?

 

[Deleted member 51539]

Quantic Dream was cleared of all allegations once David Cage declared he has worked with Ellen Page.

 

[Staticneuron]

Hell if I know.

The article is generally supportive to Cage, and honestly a lot of it makes me uncomfortable with how it

The article makes it seem like it's a one disgruntled employee who was trying to profit off of quitting, but if you had other people quitting over it, I can't help but feel like we're missing something.

Again going by just this article, Quantic Dream was actually fined for this whole picture thing because the judge ruled that they should have stopped it at the very beginning, but the judge also thought that the employee was trying to profit by fabricating an image of a toxic workplace.

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I found that interesting as well. But it seems they were all apart of the same department. Maybe something went down they all didn't like. And to be honest I am not sure how you could stop it. This guy photoshopped on his own and shared it on his own. He received punishment like you would imagine any other company would do. But I doubt it could have been prevented. Even if they already had rules specifically stating it. Someone could always violate them.

But if this article is to be believed it does seem wrong for the other employee to call for the offenders firing for a first offense. It would only make sense if this was not the first time they had an issue with the guy. I would side with the IT guy if this was an incident that happened more than once.

Got a little curious about this and did some quick googling on the auditing firms he mentions. The URSSAF he mentions seems to be not actually a government body, but a series of private organizations that collect money for social security. At a glance I don't think it's suspicious or anything though. I can't find the People Vox he mentioned; what I found instead a warehouse management software company by that name.

EDIT: Also found a People-Vox which specialzies in... electronic voting, I think?

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This is another reason why I would be hesitant to talk about what went on there. It would be nice if an ERA member that understands these companies could explain because it makes no sense why they would be mentioned in terms of wrongdoing/toxic culture in the work place.

 

[Deleted member 4482]

I don't believe a word of this article

 

[Mifec]

Hard to trust the dude when he uses "I can't be racist, i worked with a black guy once"

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Never forget

Cage is a man who fetishized the home invasion, beating, sexual assault, and violation of a woman in Heavy Rain. In Indigo Prophecy, the female lead becomes submissive and weak when she meets the male lead. In Omikron, a characters wife is tricked into being a sex object for the player. In Omikron and Indigo Prophecy. Asian characters are given voices I can only described as 'buck-toothed'. In Beyond Two Souls, the Native American family are wise sages in tune with nature. In Heavy Rain, the only black character is a thuggish ex con who attacks the white cop.

 

[Lulu]

that's an... interesting framing for an article

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OP definitely had some interesting things to say in the last QD thread

 

[Damn Silly]

So most of the article is...fine I guess, but boy there are parts where it seems like the author is actively running defence for Cage.

Like, I'm not sure we need the flowery shite like "Quantic Dream has created deeply emotional stories that elevate video games to an art form, such as The Nomad Soul, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, and Detroit: Become Human." when discussing serious workplace allegations.

And, uh, rather importantly, the matter hasn't actually been resolved yet.

 

[Systolique]

Careful, don’t be fooled by OP and his weird arguments.
Le Monde and Mediapart are the two biggest investigative newspapers in France; there is no agenda or « bias » at work here, only quality journalism.

Quantic Dream WAS CONDAMNED at the Prud’homme because of the pictures.

Also URSSAF is a private organization working for the government, it collects taxes from freelancers.

 

[Glasfrut]

This feels weird...

 

[Alien Bob]

I only judge David Cage by his work, which is enough to keep me at least 100m removed from him at all times.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

The fact this story generated a fraction of the outrage of single DLCs is disheartening. That David Cage still gets to play moral high ground and people are ready to stan for him after everything that emerged is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Yuntu]

So most of the article is...fine I guess, but boy there are parts where it seems like the author is actively running defence for Cage.

Like, I'm not sure we need the flowery shite like "Quantic Dream has created deeply emotional stories that elevate video games to an art form, such as The Nomad Soul, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, and Detroit: Become Human." when discussing serious workplace allegations.

And, uh, rather importantly, the matter hasn't actually been resolved yet.

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I was about to ask. I thought this thing wasnt done yet.

 

[Asbsand]

I think the allegations hit harder because Cage has his tactless ideas implemented into his game and it helps paint the picture that as a company they're very unsolidary and offensive. But that said, while I do think Cage is over-protective I also believe some of it, given that employee allegations were dropped in court, implying there may have been some hipocrisy.

But the allegations of immature behavior, sexist tone at work? Of course. This is really not too uncommon at certain work places as we have seen.

The allegations about employees sharing nudes of their female co-workers or whatever it was... Something about sharing on computers, you know I still kinda believe that, but I just question how moderated it was, who did it and how management actually reacted to it.

None of us worked there. We can speculate and draw conclusions from official rulings but otherwise it's a game of faith and personal agendas.

 

[GhostTrick]

Some quotes:






Much more here.

Honestly QD handled things very much professionally, IMO. It was very clear that something was wrong with the way the story was being reported what with how every decision surrounding what made it to the court was favorable towards QD, but I suppose the intent was to make some sort of big exposé where there wasn't really anything illegal or abusive going on. In any case, it also seems the investigations and audits concluded that the company is actually a great place to work, so I hope this can be put behind since this is one of the best studios out there.

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There wasn't really anything illegal ?
Lol, the nerves you got.

Le studio de jeux vidéo Quantic Dream condamné aux prud’hommes pour des photomontages

Le conseil de prud’hommes de Paris a jugé que le fleuron français du secteur était resté « passif » devant des montages qui circulaient.

www.lemonde.fr

They've been condemned and we had this debate before. You were also banned for your bad faith arguing, telling 3 to 5 french native people, some of them well versed into french law, that they were wrong and didnt understand the article.

We get it, you love QD. But those things happen and the court said it happened and that QD has been passive and violated their obligations.

 

[pld]

I see OP is still defending Quantic Dream eventhough people have explained them times and times again that they are wrong.

 

[GhostTrick]

Heck, VentureBeat's article is a fucking joke.
A french court cleared them ?
They've been condemned lol.

 

[GhostTrick]

They did lose their suits so far.

I suppose we can trust everything Fox News talking heads spew?

Natch. In the sense that there's plenty of haters, obviously. It's not wrong to point out that, I suppose.

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Mediapart and Le Monde sure are like Fox News... Lol.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Imagine working for one if not the most prestigious French media outlet and being compared to Fox News.

Years of journalism school, wasted!

 

[Thera]

I am not confortable with a thread defending this guy.

 

[Nessus]

I mean, it's possible for a company to have a toxic work environment and for a disgruntled former employee of that company to decide to try to leverage that to get what they feel they are owed.

Also, I find his continued insistence that they don't make political games ridiculous. A story about a race of slaves in Detroit (a city that is 78% African American) struggling for equal rights, who are forced to stand at the back of the bus, with one group led by a character portrayed by a famously outspoken black civil rights activist.. isn't political?

 

[mazi]

this is pretty fucked up. nothing is resolved yet and we have an article (and the OP) trying to clear up cage's name and sweep the whole thing under the rug.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Pretty disgusted at some of the posts here. But I guess it’s all cleared up now! Close this thread. You’re on the wrong forum.

 

[Staticneuron]

Careful, don’t be fooled by OP and his weird arguments.
Le Monde and Mediapart are the two biggest investigative newspapers in France; there is no agenda or « bias » at work here, only quality journalism.

Quantic Dream WAS CONDAMNED at the Prud’homme because of the pictures.

Also URSSAF is a private organization working for the government, it collects taxes from freelancers.

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There wasn't really anything illegal ?
Lol, the nerves you got.

Le studio de jeux vidéo Quantic Dream condamné aux prud’hommes pour des photomontages

Le conseil de prud’hommes de Paris a jugé que le fleuron français du secteur était resté « passif » devant des montages qui circulaient.

www.lemonde.fr

They've been condemned and we had this debate before. You were also banned for your bad faith arguing, telling 3 to 5 french native people, some of them well versed into french law, that they were wrong and didnt understand the article.

We get it, you love QD. But those things happen and the court said it happened and that QD has been passive and violated their obligations.

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Ok given how wierd people are acting towards an article written by Dean Takahashi, Which I seem to remember writing as far back as EGM, Gamefan and others. I am really confused at what people are arguing as I put those articles through translator.

So in the venturebeat article it states

The Labor Court is an institution in France where any employee who has a complaint against an employer can request a hearing. A judge analyzes the evidence and renders a judgment. Both parties can hire legal defense, provide evidence, and argue the case.

The first hearing took place in 2018, but the judges in the case could not come to a decision. In a second hearing in 2019, the judge ruled that the plaintiff “did not provide evidence of a deterioration of working conditions within the company, […] and the production of press articles […] were insufficient to establish these facts.”

The IT manager asked for €115,000 ($128,215) and the reclassifying of his resignation into unjustified dismissal (in France, a dismissal has to be justified on very serious grounds, otherwise the employee is entitled to significant compensation).

The judge rejected the IT manager’s request for compensation and ruled that the IT manager had voluntarily resigned. The company believed that the threat to tell the press unless the employee was fired was “totally unacceptable.” The judge also rendered similar verdicts for two other employees from the IT team, and a third case is under appeal. In the two other cases, the judge ruled that the employees were “instrumentalized by others” in hopes of getting higher compensation, Cage said.

Quantic Dream had to pay the IT manager compensation of €5,000 ($5,572) because the court ruled that the company should have anticipated the potential risk of an employee editing pictures and should have prohibited this activity from the start. Cage claims that the French journalists twisted the meaning of the ruling, interpreting it as a loss for the company.

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When putting that into context and looking at that article, even when translated it states

Reached by Le Monde, the studio indicates that it will not appeal and welcomes the fact that the court ruled that the employee had "not provided evidence of a deterioration in working conditions within the company, or still an important and recurring conflict […], the production of press articles […] not sufficient to establish these facts ”. Quantic Dream adds that the judgment satisfies them "since it dismisses the complainant's main demands, as was the case in three previous related judgments".

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When now given the knowledge that if they lost the major points of the case it would have been €115,000, does it not seem that Cages claim about reports of the cases being a bit misleading have merit?