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How should Capcom handle fan service with Street Fighter character designs going forward?

  • Continue to do whatever they want with the character designs, as they always have.

    Votes: 449 56.1%
  • Go more conservative with the defaults, but go nuts with the fan service alts if they want to.

    Votes: 177 22.1%
  • Do whatever with the defaults, but offer conservative alts for those with more sexy defaults.

    Votes: 61 7.6%
  • Get rid of sex appeal entirely in Street Fighter games.

    Votes: 54 6.8%
  • Meh, I honestly couldn't care less.

    Votes: 59 7.4%

  • Total voters
    800
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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
I know I asked this question a while back on Reddit & I've been needing to get your opinions on the matter, but I've been trying to get the wording right since ResetEra started. With that said, here goes.

Street Fighter is host to a number of unique character designs. Some are hits, some are misses, though what constitutes as a hit or a miss can depend on the eye of the beholder. But as far as the female character designs go, Street Fighter has been relatively tame with the fan service with a few exceptions like Cammy, Rainbow Mika, Juri, & Poison. And in the case of Juri & Poison, the sexiness of their designs lines up with who they are as characters (Rainbow Mika is a pro wrestler, so the fan service makes sense for her from a marketing perspective within the lore of Street Fighter). And with characters like Ibuki, the sex appeal in her old design was just enough to where it didn't dominate the entirety of her design (I'm referring to the exposed hips of her classic SFIII outfit). Transitioning into Street Fighter V, the game has leaned pretty heavily into the sex appeal with some of the alternate costumes as well as some of the general character designs for the veterans & newcomers (namely Laura, who mostly has sexy costumes beyond her Sports costume). While I'm not here to say that sexy = bad character design, I have noticed some reactions towards this move for the series. And with Street Fighter becoming a more prominent esport, it does raise the question of how Capcom should handle its character designs going forward (especially with the likes of ESPN asking for specific costumes). We've already seen Capcom start to react to this with Juri's new design being toned down as well as a few tamer alternate costumes (like Laura's Sports outfit & Cammy's CPT & School outfits) being introduced. Even Menat, one of the new characters in Season 2, is pretty tame as far as her default outfit goes. But my question to you is this, ResetEra. How should Capcom handle fan service with Street Fighter character designs going forward, for both the default costumes & the alternate costumes? I'm genuinely curious to hear your opinions on the matter.

As an aside, I should also mention that the sex appeal isn't limited to the females alone, but it also extends to the guys (Hot Ryu, some of Alex's costumes, Urien's Loincloth Code....even though it is his classic outfit, Ed's Battle Outfit, etc.).


Warning from the Mods
I have no idea how this thread got onto the topic of Gamergate, but that stops now.

This thread is also dangerously close to being locked if users cannot discuss this topic in good faith.
 
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Deleted member 14002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,121
Safe defaults.

Moderate fanservice as unlocks.

Heavier fanservice as paid DLC.

Options to filter out opponents costumes by fanservice. Have it switch to default costumes for whoever has it enabled.
 

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
GIVE SAKURA PANTS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

I hope they keep up with the default/story costume stuff seen in SFV.
 

KZXcellent

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
The base costume needs to be appropriate. Lean into the fanservice with the alt costumes. It's embarrassing that they have to switch off the default costume during events like EVO because it's too racy for ESPN.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Loot Boxes! /s

Make them unlocks. Default shouldn't be very fanservice-y.
 

David

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,002
Neo Yokio
I like sexy outfits and fanservice, if those keep selling then the free market might agree with me.

For tournaments maybe the best thing to do is just keep the standard costume.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,207
Dark Space
Capcom will continue on with the super sexy outfits, while making sure they are banned when the game is televised.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
The base costume needs to be appropriate. Lean into the fanservice with the alt costumes. It's embarrassing that they have to switch off the default costume during events like EVO because it's too racy for ESPN.
I'm still surprised that Disney XD had less of an issue with it than ESPN (unless ESPN acted on behalf of themselves & Disney XD).
 

JEH

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,225
The base costume needs to be appropriate. Lean into the fanservice with the alt costumes. It's embarrassing that they have to switch off the default costume during events like EVO because it's too racy for ESPN.

ESPN seems to be the only ones with that issue. They've been on European and Korean tv just fine and TBS in the states was ok with the defaults for everyone as well.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
ESPN seems to be the only ones with that issue. They've been on European and Korean tv just fine and TBS in the states was ok with the defaults for everyone as well.
Oh, so it is just an ESPN problem. I almost forgot about TBS being cool with all of the default for ELeague.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Do what they want. Designing your game characters looks around the potential e-sports aspect of it is to be frank stupid. There is plenty about the designs in SFV that are up for fair criticism but also at the same time if that's the direction they want to go they shouldn't compromise.
 

Vlaphor

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,202
Topeka, KS
The more the better, but give non-fanservicey outfits as an option as well for those who want it, as well as an ability to moderate which costumes you come across online. Something for everyone.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Can they do sexy along the lines of Super Street Fighter 2 Cammy?

It's Hollywood-sexy without being ridiculous. Can't imagine TV networks having a problem with that tier.
 

Brix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,681
They should do whatever the fuck they want. I voted for option #1. If movies and TV show Creator's put in whatever they want in their content then video game developers deserve the same fucking right.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,246
Do what they want/whatever the target audience has the stomach for.

Anything a person doesn't like, they can skip past with an alt or not purchase. If it's really an issue, give people an option to set default appearances like how in Capcom vs SNK 2, you could set default color palettes that you made.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
You don't grow more inclusive by intentionally pushing people away. Go moderate, leave the sex appeal to the 4.99 costumes in private that can be banned from tournaments.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,515
Let them continue to do as they please. Include both conservative alts and ones geared toward fanservice, base game and DLC alike.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
They need to tone down the male-gaze. They amped it up (much like well, the rest of the Japanese games industry) in SFV when it wasn't an issue at all in SF4. Having sexy, good looking alts is absolutely fantastic- but when the camera angles are constantly showing you certain parts of a character, it doesn't really matter how conservative the actual character design is.

An in-game example of how to do this is Karin. Karin's normal outfit is modestly dressed, but she has a very revealing swimsuit alt. But even when she's using the alt costume, there's not really any male gaze in the camera angles they've chosen for her, so it doesn't make you embarassed to show it off to kids or a family member despite the amount of skin showing.
 
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NinjaCoachZ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,777
The outfits aren't the issue, it's the leery camera angles and the cheesy poses/actions they make the characters do that make it seem worse.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
I still remember the 1up show where they announced SF4 10 years ago when Ono said he doesn't want to give the characters customizable costume because he wants them to keep their iconic looks and not look ridiculous
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
I think a conservative alt makes sense for steamed broadcasts, but I don't think it should influence the original character design at all. They should go wild and do what they want with the default.
 

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
I draw the line at seeing Cammy's belly button through her leotard. Clothes don't ever need to be that tight in any game. It's more goofy looking than sexy. I'm surprised that didn't add hard nipples to it, they might as well.

Other than that, go nuts. I personally don't care about what's appropriate for e-sports or kids.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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Oct 25, 2017
85,381
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I still remember the 1up show where they announced SF4 10 years ago when Ono said he doesn't want to give the characters customizable costume because he wants them to keep their iconic looks and not look ridiculous
I think Ono was referring to customization on the level of the recent Tekken games. As an example...

BabyishGracefulCanary.gif
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,591
Everyone should just be naked from the start and you have to unlock clothes through loot boxes.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
I draw the line at seeing Cammy's belly button through her leotard. Clothes don't ever need to be that tight in any game. It's more goofy looking than sexy. I'm surprised that didn't add hard nipples to it, they might as well.

Other than that, go nuts.
Actually, her nipples were kinda visible early on (you could kinda see where if you really look, but they weren't overt). It was later patched out, but it came at the cost of the textures of Cammy's leg muscles becoming inverted.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,905
JP
This premise is flawed. SFV is more fanservicey than previous games, so "continue as they always have" is not really an option.

As for my opinion - please go back to previous levels. I like it when characters like Makoto and Poison can exist in the same game, as opposed to everyone being Poison.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,756
South Central Los Angeles
"Fan service" should be done away with altogether. That's not even saying characters shouldn't have sexy costumes, but if a design solely exists to titillate it's not only objectifying, it's creatively bankrupt and does nothing to communicate a character's personality.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
I'm of the opinion that, so long as it doesn't dilute the series' appeal. I mean, yes, characters like Cammy have iconic designs that are a bit hard to alter without removing the sexualization, but it's doable. Give her, like, camo-colored trunk-shorts, or something.

Like, don't get me wrong I have nothing against fanservice costumes on a personal preference level. But I understand it makes quite a few people uncomfortable who would otherwise love the game, so, simply giving the characters less sexualized designs ought to not be an issue. And if people really want cheesecake that badly, go in with alt costumes.

So, "Go more conservative with the defaults, but go nuts with the fan service alts if they want to."

Everyone should just be naked from the start and you have to unlock clothes through loot boxes.
Don't you dare remind me of that horrible excuse of a Soulcalibur game!
 

Zackat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,021
Make their main outfits more conservative. Also, tone down the camera angles. I need that Garret Hawke gif where he replaced Laura with Ryu in her intro.
 

captainpat

Member
Nov 15, 2017
877
The keep the raunchiness about sfv level and make better character model. Tekken shouldn't be embarrassing them like that.

I wonder if some people would call it censorship if Chun and Cammy went back to having these body proportions, lol:

I would if Daigo was working on the game.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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85,381
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I wonder if some people would call it censorship if Chun and Cammy went back to having these body proportions, lol:
Considering that SFIII onwards gave Chun-Li her iconic big thighs, I'm not sure toning them down would go over well with fans.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
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Nov 11, 2017
3,831
I wonder if some people would call it censorship if Chun and Cammy went back to having these body proportions, lol:
To be fair, Chun was always fairly busty.
They just didn't implement the really silly jiggle physics until 5 or so, so it wasn't readily apparent.
But yeah, I think the differences in character designs between SF3, 4, and 5 alone show that Capcom is perfectly able to change body dimensions without a problem, so I'd not mind.

But I'm sure SOME people would call it censorship... Because of course it's only artistic choice if it's an artist drawing titty booby super sssexy anime girls. But I think most people would be fine with it.
 

incogneato

Self Requested Ban
Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,119
This premise is flawed. SFV is more fanservicey than previous games, so "continue as they always have" is not really an option.

As for my opinion - please go back to previous levels. I like it when characters like Makoto and Poison can exist in the same game, as opposed to everyone being Poison.
Not everyone is Poison. Ibuki, Chun Li, Kolin, and Karin offset Laura, R Mika, and Cammy a good deal. Also, Street Fighter does really well with sexualizing the male characters as well. Ed and Alex come to mind.

I think Street Fighter is fine. It's one of the few games that equitably sexualize both genders.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
Not everyone is Poison. Ibuki, Chun Li, Kolin, and Karin offset Laura, R Mika, and Cammy a good deal. Also, Street Fighter does really well with sexualizing the male characters as well. Ed and Alex come to mind.

I think Street Fighter is fine. It's one of the few games that equitably sexualize both genders.
You forgot Menat as one of the more conservative characters (as far as default costumes go).
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
Depends on how Sakura looks. If she's in a different costume that's not some schoolgirl outfit or a track outfit then yeah, keep doing what they're doing. If she's still in the same stuff then they need to listen to fans more. The fan service stuff on the other hand I've got no problem with those being payable.
 
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Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,911
Not everyone is Poison. Ibuki, Chun Li, Kolin, and Karin offset Laura, R Mika, and Cammy a good deal. Also, Street Fighter does really well with sexualizing the male characaters as well. Ed and Alex come to mind.

Except you have skimpy bathing suit alts for Karin, Chun and Ibuki. Maybe even Kolin, too, I don't remember.

That's what pisses me off about Street Fighter fan-service: It totally ignores characterization. Karin's bathing suit alt actually pisses me off because she would wear some kind of classy one-piece with a skirt or something, not what she actually does in game.

You forgot Menat as one of the more conservative characters (as far as default costumes go).

Yeah, but you need to put that disclaimer in there because it took less than 4 months for them to release a risque christmas alt for her.
 

incogneato

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Nov 8, 2017
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You forgot Menat as one of the more conservative characters (as far as default costumes go).
Yes that works too.

Except you have skimpy bathing suit alts for Karin, Chun and Ibuki. Maybe even Kolin, too, I don't remember.

That's what pisses me off about Street Fighter fan-service: It totally ignores characterization. Karin's bathing suit alt actually pisses me off because she would wear some kind of classy one-piece with a skirt or something, not what she actually does in game.
I was writing under the impression we were talking about default designs. The men are fairly sexualized in the alt department as well. Ryu's infamous beard alt and one of Ed's alts were egregiously sexualized
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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Oct 25, 2017
85,381
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Except you have skimpy bathing suit alts for Karin, Chun and Ibuki. Maybe even Kolin, too, I don't remember.

That's what pisses me off about Street Fighter fan-service: It totally ignores characterization. Karin's bathing suit alt actually pisses me off because she would wear some kind of classy one-piece with a skirt or something, not what she actually does in game.
Ibuki's swimsuit isn't skimpy at all, it's actually a one-piece with a badass scarf. As for Karin, it's the exact kind of classy swimsuit that fits her character (the overcoat on her back & the sunhat help bring the classy swimwear look together).
 
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