How Trump’s Election Shook Obama: ‘What if We Were Wrong?’

FromAshesRise

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
923
The democratic process is not a strawman. You were calling for Barack Obama to flagrantly overstep his bounds as President and ignore both the rule of law and the democratic process over what at the time was purely an ideological difference between parties (it may prove that actual illegal activity occurred, but we're still waiting on an investigation). That's authoritarianism, not democracy. How do you think the Conservative wing of this country would have reacted to that? How do you think they would react once in a position of power?
We don’t live in a democracy. The US is a republic.

And yes, I think it was honestly a failure of Obama to not demand a re-election at least, or flat out refuse to give up the Presidency to Trump at worst.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck if neo nazis and white supremacists cried about it. The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place - rather than innocent pocs or folks in other countries.

To be clear - I’m not for authoritarianism. I don’t believe fascism and neo Nazi ideals should be allowed to have a major political voice in this country. Those are two exclusive ideas and your tacit attempt at invoking horseshoe theory is wrong.
 

TerminusFox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,851
Not surprised he was blindsided by Trump's election. At the end of the day, he seemed pretty clueless about what americans wanted. He was a pretty bad president IMO. His only redeeming quality was that he was very charming and thus very popular with liberals. But looking at his record and failure to LEAD the American people just irks me to death.

- Sandy Hook Shooting: He cried on stage. Great to see. Compassionate and human. But what then? He did nothing to stop the second shooting. He let Republicans control the debate. He blamed the lack of action on Republicans saying no. And while it's a valid excuse to some, he's the fucking president of the united states. he is supposed to lead. He is supposed to get shit done by any means necessary. Compromise, give republicans what they want, they control both chambers of congress, let them win a few battles but try to get something in fucking return. Do SOMETHING. Anything. Bill Clinton had to work with newt fucking Gingrich. But he got welfare reform done, banned ARs and had several other legislative accomplishments despite Reps impeaching him. Obama couldnt get anything through the legislative branch other than...

- Obamacare. His one big legislative accomplishment and he couldnt get a single republican vote. thats all he needed. One. To make it a law and something Trump couldnt gut the day he walked into office. I dont care if you have to promise John McCain to go to war with Syria, do it. Do something. Anything to get that vote. Now Obamacare has been gutted to oblivion. Much all other accomplishments of his like the Iran Deal and Dreamers act. All of his big moves were executive actions that were easily reversed thanks to Trump exercising his executive powers. What's the point of getting shit done when it's going to be easily reversed in a year?

While his inability to lead congress and compromise with them was bad, His biggest failure was not leading the american people. He oversaw two big movements and did nothing. Both the BLM and Occupy Wallstreet movements were criticized for not having leaders, well you have a black president from a working class family leading the nation, why couldnt he take the lead? A lot of times he was too afraid to side with black people after these shootings. He didnt want to be hated by white people so all he could say was that Trayvon could have been his son. Grow some balls man and stand up for your people and call out your corrupt police department, and the racists in this country. If anything, americans respect someone who speaks their mind... just look at trump. he said everything wrong and still got elected. Obama couldnt even criticize cops. he should have been down in Ferguson, talking to people on the streets and getting shit done. it's why people elected him.

Then there are the ridiculous decisions to sit idly by while republicans blocked his Supreme Court nominee, while Putin played him like a little bitch first with Syria and then with the elections, (i mean he told Putin to cut it out. Thats it. Cut it out. Like he's a toddler. To Putin. I bet Putin laughed out loud when he hung up.) and making Comey, a republican, the FBI director. I dont know why democrats feel its necessary to put Republicans in charge. Republicans dont do this. The FBI was extremely leaky under Comey, leaking all anti-hilary stuff to Rudy Gulliani and Comey didnt do anything. And what did Obama do? Nothing. He should have been fired when he called Hillary extremely careless on national tv over some fucking emails.

And finally letting Israel bomb Gaza three separate times in 8 years killing thousands of women and children, personally signing off on droning pakistani villages that killed hundreds of women and children, not getting the doctor who helped them locate Osama Bin Laden out of pakistan, letting Asad drop chemical weapons on his own people after making that the red line, and letting ISIS take half of Iraq were all awful fucking moves that made the world a more dangerous place.

But hey he was charming and could make jokes and sing on Jimmy Fallon so we all love him.
Jesus Christ.

You legitimately don't understand how our government works. Like literally, have no clue.

In the age of Trump this is a comical level of ignorance.
 

4859

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,093
In the weak and the wounded
Destruction at whose hands? I'm not against the destruction of political parties, but it should never be done by a sitting president.

Ok, That's a damn good point. Yeah not the president.

Unless its all fucking parties.

With Nobody knowing who they are 'supposed' to vote for based on their prescribed parties they might have to pay attention to shit like how their policies would benefit/hurt them or something.
 

robosllim

Banned
Dec 4, 2017
548
Ok, That's a damn good point. Yeah not the president.

Unless its all fucking parties.

With Nobody knowing who they are 'supposed' to vote for based on their prescribed parties they might have to pay attention to shit like how their policies would benefit/hurt them or something.
That would be wonderful. I know plenty of Republicans who agree with Democrats on a handful of policies, but they'd never vote for them because, gosh darn it, a Democrat is just two steps away from a Communist, and we can't have that!
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
White House
Not surprised he was blindsided by Trump's election. At the end of the day, he seemed pretty clueless about what americans wanted. He was a pretty bad president IMO. His only redeeming quality was that he was very charming and thus very popular with liberals. But looking at his record and failure to LEAD the American people just irks me to death.

- Sandy Hook Shooting: He cried on stage. Great to see. Compassionate and human. But what then? He did nothing to stop the second shooting. He let Republicans control the debate. He blamed the lack of action on Republicans saying no. And while it's a valid excuse to some, he's the fucking president of the united states. he is supposed to lead. He is supposed to get shit done by any means necessary. Compromise, give republicans what they want, they control both chambers of congress, let them win a few battles but try to get something in fucking return. Do SOMETHING. Anything. Bill Clinton had to work with newt fucking Gingrich. But he got welfare reform done, banned ARs and had several other legislative accomplishments despite Reps impeaching him. Obama couldnt get anything through the legislative branch other than...

- Obamacare. His one big legislative accomplishment and he couldnt get a single republican vote. thats all he needed. One. To make it a law and something Trump couldnt gut the day he walked into office. I dont care if you have to promise John McCain to go to war with Syria, do it. Do something. Anything to get that vote. Now Obamacare has been gutted to oblivion. Much all other accomplishments of his like the Iran Deal and Dreamers act. All of his big moves were executive actions that were easily reversed thanks to Trump exercising his executive powers. What's the point of getting shit done when it's going to be easily reversed in a year?

While his inability to lead congress and compromise with them was bad, His biggest failure was not leading the american people. He oversaw two big movements and did nothing. Both the BLM and Occupy Wallstreet movements were criticized for not having leaders, well you have a black president from a working class family leading the nation, why couldnt he take the lead? A lot of times he was too afraid to side with black people after these shootings. He didnt want to be hated by white people so all he could say was that Trayvon could have been his son. Grow some balls man and stand up for your people and call out your corrupt police department, and the racists in this country. If anything, americans respect someone who speaks their mind... just look at trump. he said everything wrong and still got elected. Obama couldnt even criticize cops. he should have been down in Ferguson, talking to people on the streets and getting shit done. it's why people elected him.

Then there are the ridiculous decisions to sit idly by while republicans blocked his Supreme Court nominee, while Putin played him like a little bitch first with Syria and then with the elections, (i mean he told Putin to cut it out. Thats it. Cut it out. Like he's a toddler. To Putin. I bet Putin laughed out loud when he hung up.) and making Comey, a republican, the FBI director. I dont know why democrats feel its necessary to put Republicans in charge. Republicans dont do this. The FBI was extremely leaky under Comey, leaking all anti-hilary stuff to Rudy Gulliani and Comey didnt do anything. And what did Obama do? Nothing. He should have been fired when he called Hillary extremely careless on national tv over some fucking emails.

And finally letting Israel bomb Gaza three separate times in 8 years killing thousands of women and children, personally signing off on droning pakistani villages that killed hundreds of women and children, not getting the doctor who helped them locate Osama Bin Laden out of pakistan, letting Asad drop chemical weapons on his own people after making that the red line, and letting ISIS take half of Iraq were all awful fucking moves that made the world a more dangerous place.

But hey he was charming and could make jokes and sing on Jimmy Fallon so we all love him.
This is the type of stunning level of ignorance of basic facts about government that led to Trump. And Bernie Sanders.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,500

Deleted member 9838

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,773
Ehhh sure I do but you don't seem to understand fundamentally what someone means when they want you to specify and instead you continue to talk in vague garrulous talking points. No, I don't appreciate the core concept of your post as its far too common to see someone post verbose garbage that actually has no quantitive substance behind it.
My post isn't about pragmatic specifics. I made a big picture concept post about his presidency which rings true. Look at his healthcare bill, his inaction during the 2016 campaign with regards to russia, weak executive orders on immigration, spineless human rights pushes in the military and drone bombings, etc. Not my problem if you lack the insight or ability to make these observations and see how they apply to Obama's presidency.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,105
We don’t live in a democracy. The US is a republic.

And yes, I think it was honestly a failure of Obama to not demand a re-election at least, or flat out refuse to give up the Presidency to Trump at worst.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck if neo nazis and white supremacists cried about it. The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place - rather than innocent pocs or folks in other countries.

To be clear - I’m not for authoritarianism. I don’t believe fascism and neo Nazi ideals should be allowed to have a major political voice in this country. Those are two exclusive ideas and your tacit attempt at invoking horseshoe theory is wrong.
I don't think you understand some of the words you're using, genuinely.

The United States is a Republic through which leaders are elected via a democratic process. This has nothing to do with your complete fabrication of my calling the U.S. a democracy. Whether or not the country is technically 'a democracy' we utilize the democratic process in the election of our leaders and the legislation of our laws.

You claim you're "not for authoritarianism" but literally in the same breath say "The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place". You're literally advocating for the thing you're supposedly "not for". That's not to say your implicit trust in the police and military of this country is, misplaced at best. It's been well-documented that all levels of law enforcement in this country have been infested with white supremacists, and are used to perpetuate a state of institutionalized racism.

I can't even comment on your suggestion of "horseshoe theory" when you're literally advocating for a police-state while simultaneously pretending you're "not for" authoritarianism.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
White House
Calling something ignorant without providing information to support the your statement...
I'm not educating people who are willfully ignorant in 2018. Every paragraph of his post includes comments that are either historically untrue or make no fucking sense. Bill Clinton working with Newt Gingrich had nothing to do with the AWB being passed. It was passed in 1994, before the midterm election. "Welfare reform" was passed after the midterms, and heavily supported by republicans. If you want to claim that bill was good for anyone, be my guest. It hurt people.

Obamacare includes multiple republican proposals from the 90s and even the Heritage Foundation. It includes policies that Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, and other republicans offered; the "keeping kids on their parents plan until they're 26yo" policy is a republican proposal. And they all voted against the bill? Get the fuck outta here with that weak argument.

It is a fact that republicans determined on the day Obama was sworn in that they would not work with him. Mass obstruction was their political gamble, to ensure he received all the blame for the economy. They voted against the stimulus, despite both presidential candidates spending the final weeks of the campaign agreeing that some type of stimulus needed to be passed. Despite the fact that the bill included tax cuts they proposed.

It is not the president's job to lead GRASSROOTS movements like BLM or Occupy. He was in no position to do so or pass any laws that benefited them. He did quite a bit on civil rights and justice reforms unilaterally in his final years though. What does "getting shit done in Ferguson" even mean when it's a city with its own local government. He's demanding Obama do things that no other president would be expected to do...in large part because a president is ineffective in those roles. The president does not control local state police departments.

And fuckouttahere with your foreign policy complaints after suggesting Obama trade war with Syria for a vote on Obamacare. I'm out.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,226
Last couple pages show why we desperately need a year of mandatory civics and government classes in high school.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,277
We don't have 50 years to fix issues that require progressive shifts.

If we're going to wait on meaningful healthcare reform, education reform, housing reform, climate change, and UBI among other ideas for five decades, this country will have literally collapsed on itself. These are all active volcanoes in real time. We're lucky if we have 25 years to fix these things...

Status quo is precisely the problem. Status quo is still running on socioeconomic ideals of a decade ago, which, is nothing more than a literal corpse today. The real thing to do is to name the corpse, and that's something the atypical political left is failing to do.

Naming the beast goes a long way in dealing with it. Not naming it allows the GOP to avoid reality. No candidate on the Democratic ticket should have allowed Trump's empty "immigrants are taking your jobs" card to survive a weekend, and it was not challenged by anyone who was running. This is a huge part of the problem. In fact, this is probably a bigger issue than talking about solutions because the Democratic party does such a pitiful job in the specificity of core issues that shitlords can walk in, say something, and actually convince people that what they're saying is true.
I agree with you in principle. But it will absolutely fail in practice. We've seen this.

Obama had set us on a good course, but Trump convinced just enough people in the strategically crucial districts that it was the wrong course and that the greater good is some kind of evil communist conspiracy because of emails and Benghazi and Pizzagate and whatever other crazy fuck thing he threw at the wall.

And one of the reasons Trump won, believe it or not, was because the people who voted for him did it out of spite for being called out on their moral failings. They just don't give a fuck! In fact, now, they're taking it as a badge of honor. When you have people like Steve Bannon running around telling people to embrace being labeled and chastised by liberals, and people are listening to him, we're already fucked.

We can try to fight the good fight as-is, yelling into bullhorn or screaming at a hearing or press conference, but all we're doing at this point is reminding them that we're still here and they'll continue to just shuffle us out of the room and make wisecracks at our sanity.

I hate saying this, but Democrats are going to have to move toward the center, not to the left, just to get INTO a position to take advantage of a potential slip-up by the GoP, if they ever make one that the white majority is actually concerned about. Nothing will change until a majority of white voters is negatively and directly impacted by one of Trump's legislative initiatives. You can't shame most of these people into action. You have to hurt them financially or scare them in some other lifestyle-threatening way to get their attention. Fear-mongering goes a long way in getting these people's attentions. The GoP knows this and uses it quite often to their advantage. Dem's need to find a different kind of boogey man to scare the moderates to get them to move forward with them, instead of just turtling with the GoP in their fear bunkers. But I'm not even sure if that's possible to be honest. I just can't figure out any other way to pull people away from the right.

I know it sounds like I'm throwing in the towel, but I'm suggesting that liberals need to set up the board first before they advance. We're just trying to rush up the middle, but the GoP is circling our flanks. We can't advance like this. Even Obama is admitting that - America is just not prepped mentally for progress. America is still hampered by traditionalists and nationalism.

Dems don't even have a clear frontrunner for 2020 and it's only 2 years away now. If they can't flip at least the House this fall... I don't even want to think about the next 6 years.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
This is the level of discourse in this country. No wonder we have gone to shit.
The discourse isn't the problem. You straight up don't understand what occurred in 2009+ and have created your own revisionist narrative like a fanfic writer that turns Kylo Ren into the good guy. The political dynamics that occurred in 2009 where the GOP had an enforced party strategy of saying "No" to everything. Where in 2015/16 Democrats did not have a majority in the Senate and could not get a liberal or moderate nominee passed because no Republicans would budge.

You're either incredibly ignorant or incredibly disingenuous.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,866
The discourse isn't the problem. You straight up don't understand what occurred in 2009+ and have created your own revisionist narrative like a fanfic writer that turns Kylo Ren into the good guy. The political dynamics that occurred in 2009 where the GOP had an enforced party strategy of saying "No" to everything. Where in 2015/16 Democrats did not have a majority in the Senate and could not get a liberal or moderate nominee passed because no Republicans would budge.

You're either incredibly ignorant or incredibly disingenuous.
This. It's no use trying to correct someone's views that are so far warped. It's like someone running around adamantly stating the Sky is Green. I'm not spending a whole day trying to convince them that it's obviously Blue.
 

rambis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,790
My post isn't about pragmatic specifics. I made a big picture concept post about his presidency which rings true. Look at his healthcare bill, his inaction during the 2016 campaign with regards to russia, weak executive orders on immigration, spineless human rights pushes in the military and drone bombings, etc. Not my problem if you lack the insight or ability to make these observations and see how they apply to Obama's presidency.
Welcome to the point? And rings true to who? You?


What about the healthcare bill? Since when were his executive orders weak? I thought he was being a tyrant?

Or Russia lol? How does this prove anything?


You are literally saying nothing in as many words as possible and accusing people for not understanding your rants of nothing.

Are you able to actually able to expand on anything or are nebulous talking points your only language?
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,500
I'm not educating people who are willfully ignorant in 2018. Every paragraph of his post includes comments that are either historically untrue or make no fucking sense. Bill Clinton working with Newt Gingrich had nothing to do with the AWB being passed. It was passed in 1994, before the midterm election. "Welfare reform" was passed after the midterms, and heavily supported by republicans. If you want to claim that bill was good for anyone, be my guest. It hurt people.

Obamacare includes multiple republican proposals from the 90s and even the Heritage Foundation. It includes policies that Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, and other republicans offered; the "keeping kids on their parents plan until they're 26yo" policy is a republican proposal. And they all voted against the bill? Get the fuck outta here with that weak argument.

It is a fact that republicans determined on the day Obama was sworn in that they would not work with him. Mass obstruction was their political gamble, to ensure he received all the blame for the economy. They voted against the stimulus, despite both presidential candidates spending the final weeks of the campaign agreeing that some type of stimulus needed to be passed. Despite the fact that the bill included tax cuts they proposed.

It is not the president's job to lead GRASSROOTS movements like BLM or Occupy. He was in no position to do so or pass any laws that benefited them. He did quite a bit on civil rights and justice reforms unilaterally in his final years though. What does "getting shit done in Ferguson" even mean when it's a city with its own local government. He's demanding Obama do things that no other president would be expected to do...in large part because a president is ineffective in those roles. The president does not control local state police departments.

And fuckouttahere with your foreign policy complaints after suggesting Obama trade war with Syria for a vote on Obamacare. I'm out.
how many times are you going to say "get the fuck out of here." how old are you?

He needed 1 republican vote to get to 60 votes for obamacare. he couldnt get a single vote. it didnt have to be McCain. it was just an example. i was originally going to say give bribes or give a blowjob to get that 1 vote, but that wouldve been too crass for this board. i guess i was wrong. But what i didnt realize was how some people would use that example to dismiss the thousands of innocent deaths that happened on Obama's weak and feckless leadership. leader of the free world, lol.

Obama was president for 8 years and income equality got worse on his watch. when do we start blaming him instead of republicans?

If you think the problem in Ferguson was an isolated suburban problem and not a widescale nationwide problem with police brutality then i would suggest you google the last few years with the search words 'white cop kills unarmed black man'. there is a reason why the attorney general is called Top Cop. He's the goddamn president, he cant just put his hands up and say the police departments are handled by the city and state, I cant do anything. i will just watch black men die for 8 years. i will just watch america get poorer and poorer because republicans wont let increase maximum wage. i will just watch while all white blue collars workers go from voting for me to a racist, vile and rapist piece of shit like trump.

and thats exactly what he did for this last 6 years. he just watched.

Bailing out the auto industry, the recovery act and obamacare were literally his only big legislative accomplishments. the only reason why the taxes increased is because he allowed the bush era to expire. he wasnt able to increase taxes on guys like Mitt Romney. he couldnt get the FEDERAL minimum wage increased in six years. He got lucky with John Roberts not killing Obamacare right at the beginning then got lucky when John McCain changed his mind at the last second on completely repealing Obamacare.

Though i am sure you will find some way to disregard all criticisms of Obama because he's just a president with very few powers. he is the leader of this country and he didnt do a lot of leading. plain and simple.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,311
We don’t live in a democracy. The US is a republic.

And yes, I think it was honestly a failure of Obama to not demand a re-election at least, or flat out refuse to give up the Presidency to Trump at worst.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck if neo nazis and white supremacists cried about it. The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place - rather than innocent pocs or folks in other countries.

To be clear - I’m not for authoritarianism
. I don’t believe fascism and neo Nazi ideals should be allowed to have a major political voice in this country. Those are two exclusive ideas and your tacit attempt at invoking horseshoe theory is wrong.
Oof. This is not a good look. At all.

If you genuinely don't see the issues with what you're advocating here, I'd encourage you to take a break from the news and the internet for a little while. I mean that honestly, not as a put down.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,500
The discourse isn't the problem. You straight up don't understand what occurred in 2009+ and have created your own revisionist narrative like a fanfic writer that turns Kylo Ren into the good guy. The political dynamics that occurred in 2009 where the GOP had an enforced party strategy of saying "No" to everything. Where in 2015/16 Democrats did not have a majority in the Senate and could not get a liberal or moderate nominee passed because no Republicans would budge.

You're either incredibly ignorant or incredibly disingenuous.
I remember exactly what i happened in 2009 and 2010. i remember exactly how they said no to everything., i remember exactly when Ted kennedy died in august and left the democrats one short of the fillibuster proof majority when Scott Brown was elected.

What i am saying is that he is a politician. it's his job to work with the republicans. he needed one vote and he couldnt find it. Thats a failure on his part. It's disingenuous for you guys to blame everything on the republicans instead of holding our guy responsible for 8 years of democratic rule with very little progress. Lincoln bribed senators to abolish slavery. LBJ did some shady stuff to get the civil rights votes. its the president's job to get shit done.

P.S. This post below is the definition of disingenuous. the guy knew exactly what i was saying but chose to twist my words to make a bullshit point dismissing my entire post. as if there was not a single thing in there that warranted a decent response. would like you to call these out as well and not just the ones you happen to disagree with.

Obama was a terrible President he didn't go to war with Syria for healthcare.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
297
We don’t live in a democracy. The US is a republic.

And yes, I think it was honestly a failure of Obama to not demand a re-election at least, or flat out refuse to give up the Presidency to Trump at worst.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck if neo nazis and white supremacists cried about it. The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place - rather than innocent pocs or folks in other countries.

To be clear - I’m not for authoritarianism. I don’t believe fascism and neo Nazi ideals should be allowed to have a major political voice in this country. Those are two exclusive ideas and your tacit attempt at invoking horseshoe theory is wrong.
Americans live in a corporate dictatorship.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
I remember exactly what i happened in 2009 and 2010. i remember exactly how they said no to everything., i remember exactly when Ted kennedy died in august and left the democrats one short of the fillibuster proof majority when Scott Brown was elected.

What i am saying is that he is a politician. it's his job to work with the republicans. he needed one vote and he couldnt find it. Thats a failure on his part. It's disingenuous for you guys to blame everything on the republicans instead of holding our guy responsible for 8 years of democratic rule with very little progress. Lincoln bribed senators to abolish slavery. LBJ did some shady stuff to get the civil rights votes. its the president's job to get shit done.
He should have nuked the fillibuster in '09 and pushed stuff through before the Tea Partywave. But that would not have helped post-2010 and it would not have helped with Garland.

If you think it would have your vision of the GOP has governed since the '90s does not reflect reality. Their policy is to obstruct everything.

What you elect is a president, but what you think you are electing is a Monarch. You're a model example of the authoritarian moderate swing voter.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
White House
how many times are you going to say "get the fuck out of here." how old are you?

He needed 1 republican vote to get to 60 votes for obamacare. he couldnt get a single vote. it didnt have to be McCain. it was just an example. i was originally going to say give bribes or give a blowjob to get that 1 vote, but that wouldve been too crass for this board. i guess i was wrong. But what i didnt realize was how some people would use that example to dismiss the thousands of innocent deaths that happened on Obama's weak and feckless leadership. leader of the free world, lol.

Obama was president for 8 years and income equality got worse on his watch. when do we start blaming him instead of republicans?

If you think the problem in Ferguson was an isolated suburban problem and not a widescale nationwide problem with police brutality then i would suggest you google the last few years with the search words 'white cop kills unarmed black man'. there is a reason why the attorney general is called Top Cop. He's the goddamn president, he cant just put his hands up and say the police departments are handled by the city and state, I cant do anything. i will just watch black men die for 8 years. i will just watch america get poorer and poorer because republicans wont let increase maximum wage. i will just watch while all white blue collars workers go from voting for me to a racist, vile and rapist piece of shit like trump.

and thats exactly what he did for this last 6 years. he just watched.

Bailing out the auto industry, the recovery act and obamacare were literally his only big legislative accomplishments. the only reason why the taxes increased is because he allowed the bush era to expire. he wasnt able to increase taxes on guys like Mitt Romney. he couldnt get the FEDERAL minimum wage increased in six years. He got lucky with John Roberts not killing Obamacare right at the beginning then got lucky when John McCain changed his mind at the last second on completely repealing Obamacare.

Though i am sure you will find some way to disregard all criticisms of Obama because he's just a president with very few powers. he is the leader of this country and he didnt do a lot of leading. plain and simple.
Again, you are blaming him for something that is not his fault. That's literally the theme of your entire political posting history. The Obamacare bill was never going to get republican votes when the party decided their reaction to all of his proposals would be obstruction. And even still Obama searched for the votes and ensured the legislation included various republican proposals. So whose fault is that? Obama's, or a political party dead set on opposing him?

Income inequality was going to get worse regardless of who was president. What's your point, it's been a trend for quite some time. I wasn't aware that president's magically control this either. Oh wait, they don't.

You realize the president of the United States can't tell the AG what to do, right? You probably don't, because you are ignorant of basic history and government functions. The Justice Department dropped a bomb on the Ferguson police department in terms of their special investigation report (which you probably didn't know about either because, again, you aren't paying attention). And yet the reforms required to rein in the department would require the city and state, in elections. So again, what was Obama supposed to do.

Funny how all of Obama's legislative accomplishments occurred when his party controlled congress right? That's the case of nearly every modern president. People praise LBJ for being a master of getting shit passed, yet the minute democrats lost control of congress he became ineffective. Yet people want to act like Obama is the only one guilty of this. Hell, Trump has congress right now and can barely get anything passed. Give me a break.
 
Oct 27, 2017
796
Not surprised he was blindsided by Trump's election. At the end of the day, he seemed pretty clueless about what americans wanted. He was a pretty bad president IMO. His only redeeming quality was that he was very charming and thus very popular with liberals. But looking at his record and failure to LEAD the American people just irks me to death.

- Sandy Hook Shooting: He cried on stage. Great to see. Compassionate and human. But what then? He did nothing to stop the second shooting. He let Republicans control the debate. He blamed the lack of action on Republicans saying no. And while it's a valid excuse to some, he's the fucking president of the united states. he is supposed to lead. He is supposed to get shit done by any means necessary. Compromise, give republicans what they want, they control both chambers of congress, let them win a few battles but try to get something in fucking return. Do SOMETHING. Anything. Bill Clinton had to work with newt fucking Gingrich. But he got welfare reform done, banned ARs and had several other legislative accomplishments despite Reps impeaching him. Obama couldnt get anything through the legislative branch other than...

- Obamacare. His one big legislative accomplishment and he couldnt get a single republican vote. thats all he needed. One. To make it a law and something Trump couldnt gut the day he walked into office. I dont care if you have to promise John McCain to go to war with Syria, do it. Do something. Anything to get that vote. Now Obamacare has been gutted to oblivion. Much all other accomplishments of his like the Iran Deal and Dreamers act. All of his big moves were executive actions that were easily reversed thanks to Trump exercising his executive powers. What's the point of getting shit done when it's going to be easily reversed in a year?

While his inability to lead congress and compromise with them was bad, His biggest failure was not leading the american people. He oversaw two big movements and did nothing. Both the BLM and Occupy Wallstreet movements were criticized for not having leaders, well you have a black president from a working class family leading the nation, why couldnt he take the lead? A lot of times he was too afraid to side with black people after these shootings. He didnt want to be hated by white people so all he could say was that Trayvon could have been his son. Grow some balls man and stand up for your people and call out your corrupt police department, and the racists in this country. If anything, americans respect someone who speaks their mind... just look at trump. he said everything wrong and still got elected. Obama couldnt even criticize cops. he should have been down in Ferguson, talking to people on the streets and getting shit done. it's why people elected him.

Then there are the ridiculous decisions to sit idly by while republicans blocked his Supreme Court nominee, while Putin played him like a little bitch first with Syria and then with the elections, (i mean he told Putin to cut it out. Thats it. Cut it out. Like he's a toddler. To Putin. I bet Putin laughed out loud when he hung up.) and making Comey, a republican, the FBI director. I dont know why democrats feel its necessary to put Republicans in charge. Republicans dont do this. The FBI was extremely leaky under Comey, leaking all anti-hilary stuff to Rudy Gulliani and Comey didnt do anything. And what did Obama do? Nothing. He should have been fired when he called Hillary extremely careless on national tv over some fucking emails.

And finally letting Israel bomb Gaza three separate times in 8 years killing thousands of women and children, personally signing off on droning pakistani villages that killed hundreds of women and children, not getting the doctor who helped them locate Osama Bin Laden out of pakistan, letting Asad drop chemical weapons on his own people after making that the red line, and letting ISIS take half of Iraq were all awful fucking moves that made the world a more dangerous place.

But hey he was charming and could make jokes and sing on Jimmy Fallon so we all love him.
well said. He had my vote in 08 and a galvanized country behind him. It didn't take long for me to realize it was just business as usual, almost Bush' 3rd term if you will. That solidified to me that Washington really is corrupt to its core. And while it didn't work on me, I can at least understand why Trump supporters were drawn to his "drain the swamp" message. I think it's also why Bernie got so popular and why it'll take a no nonsense, tell it like it is, and back it up even if unpopular, candidate, to overtake Trump in 2020. If it's anyone that exemplifies D.C. politics they'll fail.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,500
You realize the president of the United States can't tell the AG what to do, right? You probably don't, because you are ignorant of basic history and government functions. The Justice Department dropped a bomb on the Ferguson police department in terms of their special investigation report (which you probably didn't know about either because, again, you aren't paying attention). And yet the reforms required to rein in the department would require the city and state, in elections. So again, what was Obama supposed to do.
Please spare me the lecture and go talk down to someone else. what a ludicrous post. dont assume anything about me. this is why i left poligaf despite being an avid Hillary supporter, you guys are unbelievably condescending. like holy shit. reminds me of the level of discourse on gaf towards the end of that board.

Your post absolves Obama and actually any president of all blame. income inequality? Not his problem. Police Brutality? Not his problem. Systematic Racism on a national level? not his problem. lack of gun control? not his problem. Obamacare including all these republican proposals and not getting a single republican to vote for them? Not his problem. Then why the hell did he include them? Oh that's right, his own democrats wouldnt have gone for a hardcore liberal single payer system. I guess we cant blame him for not being able to count on his own guys either, right?

What you elect is a president, but what you think you are electing is a Monarch. You're a model example of the authoritarian moderate swing voter.
Not even close. i only want him to compromise so he could get liberal things done even if they come at the expense of republicans getting a win here and there. Federal minimum wage increases would have gone a long way towards fixing income equality. Create a civil public agency that oversees the police departments. Pick an attorney general who would have actively investigated these unarnmed deaths. Though to his credit, Holder did step up after Ferguson but four years later we are still where we were when it comes to police brutality and systematic racism. Same goes for the head of FBI who just turned a blind eye to it all and pretty much single handedly handed the election to Trump.

PheonixDark mentioned how people dont like the welfare reform because of all the crap the republicans attached to it, but are we seriously saying american would;ve been better off without it? Will you guys at least concede that he was a very ineffective president? I mean if you are not going to blame him for not getting anything done, will you at least admit that he didnt get anything done? EDIT: And by anything i am talking about the things i mentioned in my original post. Gun Control, income inequality, systematic racism in our courts/police departments etc. i hate to add qualifiers to my post but people love to take things out of context.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
Not even close. i only want him to compromise so he could get liberal things done even if they come at the expense of republicans getting a win here and there. Federal minimum wage increases would have gone a long way towards fixing income equality. Create a civil public agency that oversees the police departments. Pick an attorney general who would have actively investigated these unarnmed deaths. Though to his credit, Holder did step up after Ferguson but four years later we are still where we were when it comes to police brutality and systematic racism. Same goes for the head of FBI who just turned a blind eye to it all and pretty much single handedly handed the election to Trump.

PheonixDark mentioned how people dont like the welfare reform because of all the crap the republicans attached to it, but are we seriously saying american would;ve been better off without it? Will you guys at least concede that he was a very ineffective president? I mean if you are not going to blame him for not getting anything done, will you at least admit that he didnt get anything done?
There is no compromise possible when your opponents are deliberately not compromising as an electoral strategy.

This is the fundamental truth of the GOP's entire modern congressional strategy. They only compromise when they have a majority but can't get the votes on their side because of the Freedom Caucus.
 

Replicant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,224
MN
Jesus Christ.

You legitimately don't understand how our government works. Like literally, have no clue.

In the age of Trump this is a comical level of ignorance.
Let me ask you this. If Democrats held both house and senate and had a majority rule on the Supreme Court, but Trump was president, how well do you think Trump would do? Can you imagine even worse than now?
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,661
Somewhere
Obama’s biggest failing is that he was too much of a coward to actually deliver change. He likes to think of himself as noble for trying to reach across the aisle, when all he did was waste 4 years before being trapped in a neutered second term.

Bipartisan politics is no longer possible in America and he should have known that the second he took office. Once you get in the chair, you start getting shit done. You don’t wait for the other side to agree with you. Republicans know this but Democrats still don’t.
I want the next democratic president to run the show like Trump did. I wanna see how fucking pissy the right gets when a Democrat starts using executive orders to push shit through.

I agree with you. Fight fire with fire. Dems need to stop playing nice with Repubs and start getting even.
 

¡Hip Hop!

Member
Nov 9, 2017
665
I think he's probably right. Everything the Democrats did in the 2016 election exemplified hubris. They assumed beating Trump was a slam dunk so they didn't even try. Clinton was a terrible candidate and had nothing better to offer than "toe the line" promises. Most of the campaign just seemed to focus on how bad Trump was rather than what she offered. Sabotaging Bernie also made it clear that they didn't want real change anyway.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,036
Let me ask you this. If Democrats held both house and senate and had a majority rule on the Supreme Court, but Trump was president, how well do you think Trump would do? Can you imagine even worse than now?
With somebody like trump? Trump just wants to be liked. It's not fucking hard to get him to do whatever the fuck you want as long as you tell him he will have big ratings and/or you pay him off. Seriously, all democrats would have to do is tell him is if you do this, you will be liked better than Obama.

That's fucking it.
 

lastflowers

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
342
Seattle, Wa
One thing I rarely gets pointed out in these articles is Obama at the end of the day is a black man, a black man at work in America.

The man tried to give people access to health care and they sued him. Imagine if he stopped code switching. They would have lynched him on the front lawn
Oofta, this is a bad look.
 

DR2K

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,946
To be fair, people really didn't like Hillary. Had Obama run again he would've won.
How does this narrative keep happening in the face of obvious math.

Donald Trump was a lot stronger of a candidate than we estimated. He promised whites the one thing they have historically bendes over backwards for. Social-racial superiority is more important to them than their livelihood.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,866
How does this narrative keep happening in the face of obvious math.

Donald Trump was a lot stronger of a candidate than we estimated. He promised whites the one thing they have historically bendes over backwards for. Social-racial superiority is more important to them than their livelihood.
And? Obama would've trounced him. He barely one the election, Hillary won the popular vote. So, what are you talking about? If he won by a landslide that would be one thing, he didn't.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
How does this narrative keep happening in the face of obvious math.

Donald Trump was a lot stronger of a candidate than we estimated. He promised whites the one thing they have historically bendes over backwards for. Social-racial superiority is more important to them than their livelihood.
You get stronger Dem turnout without the Hillary/Bernie nonsense + Obama being more charismatic + overperforming with AA turnout numbers each time.

Trump only won by a hair via the EC.
 

lastflowers

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
342
Seattle, Wa
User banned (1 week): Pattern of trying to discuss history of users instead of their arguments. Prior warnings and bans for similar.
It’s a shitty way to continually shove away criticism—despite my agreement that America is generally racist. Especially as a moderator, as it opens you up to imprecise ways at perceiving conversations from your own biases. I’ve watched you post for neigh on ten years, just saying it’s a bad look for you.
 

Slayven

1000% Demon King
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
44,690
It’s a shitty way to continually shove away criticism—despite my agreement that America is generally racist. Especially as a moderator, as it opens you up to imprecise ways at perceiving conversations from your own biases. I’ve watched you post for neigh on ten years, just saying it’s a bad look for you.
How is it basis to say a black man in america is held to a different standard than a white man in america? There are literally mountains studies that says just that.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,389
.S. This post below is the definition of disingenuous. the guy knew exactly what i was saying but chose to twist my words to make a bullshit point dismissing my entire post. as if there was not a single thing in there that warranted a decent response. would like you to call these out as well and not just the ones you happen to disagree with.
No it's not.

You literally said he should have promised McCain his war on Syria to pass healthcare.
 

rstzkpf

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,072
We don’t live in a democracy. The US is a republic.

And yes, I think it was honestly a failure of Obama to not demand a re-election at least, or flat out refuse to give up the Presidency to Trump at worst.

I couldn’t give less of a fuck if neo nazis and white supremacists cried about it. The police and the military should ideally be used to put those fuckers in their place - rather than innocent pocs or folks in other countries.

To be clear - I’m not for authoritarianism. I don’t believe fascism and neo Nazi ideals should be allowed to have a major political voice in this country. Those are two exclusive ideas and your tacit attempt at invoking horseshoe theory is wrong.
Now this is a hot take. Do you have any idea what this would do? Do you have any idea how our government even works?
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,389
It’s a shitty way to continually shove away criticism—despite my agreement that America is generally racist. Especially as a moderator, as it opens you up to imprecise ways at perceiving conversations from your own biases. I’ve watched you post for neigh on ten years, just saying it’s a bad look for you.
What the heck
 

Replicant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,224
MN
I hate vague nothing statements like this. What "big change" was Obama going to make with the congress he had? I mean specific policy he was going to be able to accomplish.


This seems woefully revisionist and ignorant to the the fact that the "wrong candidate" gather millions more votes than her opponent and also finished decently in the 08 primaries. This is revisionism is worse than anything that happened in 2016. Hilary was the right candidate until she wasn't, which was right after the vote happened. The left's obsession with perfect candidates is why they, even in face of the expected blue wave still look hopeless in 2020 with no clear cut leader.

Obviously you want to correct missteps and Hilary surely had hers but more importantly Democrats need to learn how to take losses without going nuclear and blaming everybody in sight and going on purges.

Sometimes people are just scum. A black president made millions on poor white people feel forgotten somehow and Trump was able to capitalize.
To be fair, Obama could have done a fuck ton more in his first two years but he was stuck on healthcare and at the end of that day, he even got a watered down piece of trash passed by giving into republicans demands and they still didn’t even vote for it.