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Lime

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Written by Anshuman Iddamsetty tracing the ways that representation of fatness is worrying, how it's tied to who is making video games, how their creative choices are structured and motivated by commodification and capitalism, and perhaps the answer to better representation lies in the working conditions and the economic framework of video game development

Preston brought up one of her first experiences in the motion capture studio. "You walk in and your character is being told how worthless they are for having a large body in this intense torture scene ... As a fat person in real life, you have to have a healthy disinterest in what others think of you to get the job done."

What Preston alludes to is the opening hour of Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus, the sequel to the critically acclaimed Wolfenstein: The New Order and reboot of the wildly popular anti-Nazi series. Preston's likeness was the literal scaffold for Sigrun Engel, the fat queer daughter of the chief antagonist of Wolfenstein II. The abuse Sigrun endures at her mother's hands is a mirror to the abuse your character — the handsome, white, straight William "B.J." Blazkowicz — suffers from his own father. Domestic violence, the game argues, is where fascism takes root.

"When fat women appear they're almost exclusively never player controlled actors," said Todd Harper, an assistant professor at the University of Baltimore's program in Simulation and Digital Entertainment and an advocate of fat acceptance, over Skype. "The only one I can think of is Fat Princess… and you don't even control her in the Fat Princess games! She's the football!"

Burns acknowledged that AAA teams often employ people from marginalized groups but few could risk their careers being branded, "a troublemaker." "It's hard to describe just how much forward momentum it feels like there is, how much sports-team 'hoo-rah, go us!' attitude that big AAA teams can have. The people who notice the problems often feel like they don't have allies or won't be taken seriously or might even get in trouble. So they keep it to themselves."

While the repercussions of being a troublemaker (or to a larger extent, a whistleblower) are real, I'm reluctant to place the onus of change on the few and powerless, as is Burns. I mean, I've observed this behavior myself, at times been the troublemaker, too — not in video games or software development, but during my time working in publishing.

What if the fault lies in the nature of the corporate product itself?

"Games often reflect the culture they're made in," wrote Kiva Bay, a fat activist and writer, in a conversation over Google Docs. Before Trump and the Alt-Right, we forget that one of the largest and most naked displays of hate was once a subreddit devoted to terrorizing fat people. Although r/fatpeoplehate drew from the same well as Gamergate, its scope was wider. In the subreddit, pictures of fat people — almost exclusively young women — were shared for open ridicule. Many were doxxed, others targeted for prolonged campaigns of abuse, subject to the terrifying and detailed fantasies of people who genuinely believe fat bodies should be exterminated. For a time it was Reddit's most popular and most toxic sub — 150,000 subscribers strong at its height and who knows how many lurkers — and was shut down only after intense public scrutiny.

"I think we just haven't seen a mainstream project that truly tackles the experience of fat embodiment in a way that is humane or compassionate towards fat people," Bay said.

But few things suggest cancelling the human project and starting over like Darlene Fleischermacher, a psychopath from Dead Rising 3. Darlene makes her entrance riding a mobility scooter, burping and farting and eating a turkey leg at the same time. The camera lingers on her exaggerated features to accentuate the horror of her design and I find myself wondering about the person tasked with modelling her feet, which are too big for her heels. Her weapons include projectile vomiting, of course, and an oversized... spork. Once defeated, Darlene is pinned by her mobility scooter and drowns to death in her own vomit. This unlocks the 'Gluttonous' achievement.

Dead Rising 3 would go on to sell 2.5 million copies according to Capcom's Investor Relations data. (The previous titles sold 1.8 and 3 million copies, respectively.) Of the millions who bought any of the Dead Rising games, how many would honestly interrogate the fat characters they encountered? If I were to hit my head and generously claim that 80 percent of Dead Rising 3's audience found Darlene objectionable, that's still half a million people who did not. How many do you need to scale a lie?

Think back to Darlene — briefly — or King Hippo from Nintendo's Punch Out (1985), a boxer whose weak point is inexplicably his belly; Earthquake, from SNK's Samurai Shodown (1993), notorious for his signature farts; Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance's (2002) Bo Rai Cho, who, same; the lumbering Boomers of Valve's Left 4 Dead (2008) with their exposed bellies and blinding vomit; Bob from NAMCO's Tekken 6 (2009) whose moves are all named after food; Rufus from Capcom's Street Fighter IV (2009), his belly rigged with its own jiggle physics to make him a single lethal breast; Roadhog from Activision Blizzard's ferociously popular shooter Overwatch (2016), shirtless and leatherbound, huffing strange fumes to up his health.

"The most common mode is fat as a stand-in to show that a character is greedy, to show that a character is slovenly, to show that a character has low moral fiber," said Harper. In other words, fatness a universal shorthand that ensures a player can both read and read into the systems of a particular game without alienating them. And so we get the qualities we've come to know about fat bodies in games, their lust for food and drink, their greed and corruptible nature.

What fascinates me is how these inhumane portrayals of fatness find their way up slide decks, creative briefs, and vertical slices — a polished sliver of gameplay created for PR purposes — without anyone questioning them.

Visibility, of course, matters, but not if it ends up being another feature on a product landing page, commodified the way body positivity means absolutely nothing now. What if the fault lies in trying to appeal to an audience of millions in the first place? Imagine a game meant only for a few thousand players or a few hundred. Let's take a step back — imagine a game made by diverse teams working sensible hours? That's the problem, isn't it? The economics of a neoliberal project as vast as AAA games development means that whether it's a workforce, an identity, or a certain silhouette, people will always be exploited. And what comes out of that cruel logic isn't a video game — it's a spreadsheet.

More at the link: https://theoutline.com/post/3032/fat-people-in-video-games?zd=1
 

Dimmle

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Oct 25, 2017
312
Persona 4 has an especially cruel depiction of a fat student. It's a little shocking to return to.
 

Kin5290

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Oct 26, 2017
3,390
That's an interesting first example. The abuse that character suffers over her size directly motivates her defection and joining the good guys. She's also shown as a fundamentally good person, and is even represented as sexually desirable.
 

Vankash

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Oct 27, 2017
174
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When i think about it...even Final Fantasy XV had such thing
- over sweating
- long hair

basically the depiction of a nerd from the 2000's
 

KratosEnergyDrink

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Oct 27, 2017
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Every woman character in League of Legends has exactly the same extremely thin body with big titts.

Same in Xenoblade 2, its just so boring that they all look the same.
 

Adamska

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Oct 27, 2017
7,042
At least you can be as fat as you want in soulsborne games and that doesn't impact gameplay in the slightest. Also, Bill from The Last of Us is kind of chubby, but no less of a person because of that, much like Parker on RER. Games should strive to have more fat people as characters put in the same level as skinny or buff people, or at least without any fat innuendo or food/bodily function related jokes. Heck, even MGS2's Fatman is a positive example compared to what was pointed out.
 

Deleted member 6949

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I always wish there were more fat people in games, especially as playable characters. It's weird how things have been getting more diverse in every way except body type.
 

Bigg

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Oct 25, 2017
6,618
That's an interesting first example. The abuse that character suffers over her size directly motivates her defection and joining the good guys.
The article frames Sigrun's portrayal as mostly positive but still flawed in some ways. It's far more critical of Darlene from DR3, who is just a textbook example of the "gross fat person" trope.
 
Oct 30, 2017
678
It's peculiar, considering the ridiculous stereotypes of 'people who play video games' that are still pervasive today.
 

Thatguy

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Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
This feels true in every entertainment medium by and large. As for games, do you want to play as a character that can parkour and jump higher than their own height it do you want to play as a sluggish slow character?

Fighting games or games with a large cast usually have fat characters, almost always as some sort of heavy weight fighter or comic relief.
 

Aters

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Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I'm part of the problem. I always want to play as a physically fit person in videogame. I want to run fast and jump high amd playing as a fat person just feel weird when doing all those actions.
 

Vankash

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Oct 27, 2017
174
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At least you can be as fat as you want in soulsborne games and that doesn't impact gameplay in the slightest. Also, Bill from The Last of Us is kind of chubby, but no less of a person because of that. Games should strive to have more fat people as characters put in the same level as skinny or buff people, or at least without any fat innuendo or food/bodily function related jokes. Heck, even MGS2's Fatman is a positive example compared to what was pointed out.
Cunningham in MGS:PO was chubby too but wasn't a villain because of that. If i remember correctly
 

Deleted member 22585

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It's really cruel sometimes, to the point where I sometimes talk to my TV and say "Come on guys, really?".

Fat Drake was amazing though.
 

Crayon

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Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I'm getting flashbacks to that thread about the anorexia awareness site addressing videogame characters. Idk if anyone remembers but they took female characters and photoshopped them to look heavier and it really pushed some buttons.

We're super rude to fat people in our media and it's not even that funny or anything. It's like some kind of comfort bullying.
 

Shifty1897

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Oct 28, 2017
702
I'm a little conflicted on this. Clearly some of it is mean spirited, like the doughnut drake skin in the Uncharted games, but then again, it wouldn't make any sense to have a morbidly obese person as the main character in most video games.
 

Radishhead

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Oct 30, 2017
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I don't think there's anything wrong with having fat people as villains - or protagonists - so long as they have a sufficient number of character traits that can describe them by more than just their weight or eating habits.
 

Kcannon

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Oct 30, 2017
5,660
I'm getting flashbacks to that thread about the anorexia awareness site addressing videogame characters. Idk if anyone remembers but they took female characters and photoshopped them to look heavier and it really pushed some buttons.

We're super rude to fat people in our media and it's not even that funny or anything. It's like some kind of comfort bullying.

Might be a result of obesity becoming a bigger epidemic and general concern every day.

Still mean-spirited though.
 

pqvqs

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Oct 28, 2017
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Persona 4 has an especially cruel depiction of a fat student. It's a little shocking to return to.

I'm playing P4G for the first time now and when I first saw it I could only think "Who thought this sick stuff would pass as laughable?" And I know it's kinda of stupid doing this type of comparison ('who suffers more?') but I think what P4 did with fat people was way worse than what P5 did with gay people, even if by being neither of those I probably should stfu
 

Inkblots

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Oct 25, 2017
657
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I'm part of the problem. I always want to play as a physically fit person in videogame. I want to run fast and jump high amd playing as a fat person just feel weird when doing all those actions.
It does look a bit odd...

iUmw1kV.png
 

MMaRsu

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Oct 25, 2017
1,716
Warning: Advocating Bullying
Obesity is not good. Eating healthy is good. Finding a good balance is all the better.

People with born diseases I cannot fault them, but people who eat terrible and gain fat and gain fat and don't work out, then pass it on to their kids all unhealthy foods the kids are fucking 150KG at their 13th birthday..

I'm sorry but these type of people deserve ridicule in my eyes.
 

Aters

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I think both Persona 4 and Trails of Cold Steel demonize fat people. It was cruel, unnecessary and not fun at all. We really don't need these stereotype fat people in videogame.
 

LakeEarth

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Oct 27, 2017
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Ontario
In Street Fighter, Birdie and Rufus are supposed to come off as fat and disgusting. Honda fairs better, but still acts like a goofball in SF4.
 
OP
OP

Lime

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Obesity is not good. Eating healthy is good. Finding a good balance is all the better.

People with born diseases I cannot fault them, but people who eat terrible and gain fat and gain fat and don't work out, then pass it on to their kids all unhealthy foods the kids are fucking 150KG at their 13th birthday..

I'm sorry but these type of people deserve ridicule in my eyes.

Why do they deserve ridicule? Why should someone be demonized and marginalized because of their bodies?
 

yungronny

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Nov 27, 2017
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They tried this in Street Fighter and Tekken and nobody played as either of the characters. But I guess those are both over the top "HA HA HES FAT BUT HE CAN FIGHT!" examples. Still horrible characters.

Every woman character in League of Legends has exactly the same extremely thin body with big titts.

Same in Xenoblade 2, its just so boring that they all look the same.
maxresdefault.jpg


Just one example but they're at least making some progress. I wouldn't look to League for anything short of mainstream gamer appeasement.
 

RM8

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I'm part of the problem. I always want to play as a physically fit person in videogame. I want to run fast and jump high amd playing as a fat person just feel weird when doing all those actions.
Me too (as in, I prefer protagonists who look the part fitness-wise), but I don't think overweight / obese characters need to be punching bags. I say this as a borderline underweight guy, btw.
 

Deleted member 4346

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Yeah, video games are pretty hard on overweight people. That said, I wouldn't mind playing as a huge heavy powerlifter-type avatar. Those are always the bad guys rather than the player character.
 

Deleted member 15997

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I understand the desire to represent more body types in games (or at least represent them in a way that isn't terrible), but as someone admittedly ignorant on this topic I'm curious as to what ideas people have to improve this without dismissing obesity as a problem (not that it's difficult).

I think RPGs should definitely allow more body-shape options, but do these options effect character speed, or strength? Or is it part of the player power fantasy to have a larger character that runs like the wind?

I dunno, weight sliders in my RPGs please. The options range from Thin to Superman most of the time.
 

Kureransu

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Oct 25, 2017
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Every woman character in League of Legends has exactly the same extremely thin body with big titts.

Same in Xenoblade 2, its just so boring that they all look the same.
illaoi, jinx, taliyah, tristana, poppy, xayah, zoe etc.. while i'll admit that in the early days, riot was bad for this, but they have a lot of diversity in their female designs these days.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

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How do Pyra, Nia, and Morag look the same?

Same face, same body only marginal chances. At least the hair has different colors, their titts have different sizes and they wear different clothes, otherwise it would be hard to distinguish them.

To be honest most women characters in this game (and many other games) seems to derive from Barbie puppets.
 
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PatMan

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Oct 27, 2017
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I mean wouldn't having an obese protagonist send a message it's ok to be obese? Humans should strive to be healthy. Being fat is not healthy. Unlike race, sex, and sexual orientation, your weight is something you can control (unless you are part of a miniscule part of the population that has hormonal problems or are disabled physically)
 

Kcannon

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Oct 30, 2017
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Why do they deserve ridicule? Why should someone be demonized and marginalized because of their bodies?

People normally marginalize unhealthy habits. This is not a surprise. You won't see people demonizing exercising and athletic bodies.

Sure there are some cases that are genetic, but the majority are just indifferent to good health.
 
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