HSBC issued an alarming warning that Earth is running out of the resources to sustain life

HarryHengst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
730
I am shocked.
Who would have thought that being fruitful and multiplying and filling the earth and subduing it could result in this?

(I've been saying it for a long time, we need global population control. There is no other way.)

https://d33wubrfki0l68.cloudfront.n...on-1750-2015-and-un-projection-until-2100.svg
No we dont. The earth can easily support billions more, only not at a western lifestyle. If we went back to all being farmers there is no problem and we would not boil the earth.

When you say population control, you want those others to stop reproducing, while keeping your own lifestyle intact.
 

Conmex

Banned
May 19, 2018
416
Reading this posts and similar is so fucking weird to me, are you all just living in an alternate reality where like half the developed nations are not actually stagnating population wise (like they currently are)? Have you people seen whats happening to Japan? Germany? We are already getting to the point that some countries are even going to stop growing in population(japan 2020 i believe) and some of you want to control it further, the fuck is going on in this thread??
The poor would suffer the worst in their little fantasy scenarios as well. Who do you think will have their populations controlled? The rich or the people who need government assistance to survive?
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
I get it’s a light-hearted and topical reference, but the problem with people posting fucking Thanos in threads like this, is they should be citing Malthus, or the many other academics or literary touchstones on the subject.

It’s not a meme, it’s marketing, and it’s the dumbing down of our culture, whih is part of the problem.
Who is Malthus?
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,223
Most developing countries don't contribute nearly as much twords climate change as the developed world does.

India is one of the few exceptions and that's probably due to there being a billion people there




https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data
That's probably due to developing countries ultimately still consuming less than developed countries, per capita at least...

I also think that people from developed countries should not be be on a moral high ground, asking for population control when we were the ones who spent the resources while stepping all over these countries and exploiting them. We don't get to exploit them,ruin the world and then point fingers and ask them to control their population because we now have less resources to go around. Developed countries already had our baby booms and are now slowing down. If the economies of these countries improve and they also become more educated the trend would be for population growth to be stagnant.

I think what we should do is to first look at our own consumption first rather than tell other people what to do because they are not the ones overconsuming.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
10,113
If the world is fucked then the world is fucked I guess

This problem is greater than people are able handle I suppose, or it isn't and we find a solution, either way it is what it is
We all have our part to play westerners should try to forego their luscious lifestyles... We brown people on the other hand should think about controlling our rampant over-population trend...
If we keep pointing fingers at each other then noting can be gained...
Part to play? Be real this entire problem is caused and largely continued by western countries and other MEDC. It's almost entirely your fault and your problem to fix.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,668
That's probably due to developing countries ultimately still consuming less than developed countries, per capita at least...

I also think that people from developed countries should not be be on a moral high ground, asking for population control when we were the ones who spent the resources while stepping all over these countries and exploiting them. We don't get to exploit them,ruin the world and then point fingers and ask them to control their population because we now have less resources to go around. Developed countries already had our baby booms and are now slowing down. If the economies of these countries improve and they also become more educated the trend would be for population growth to be stagnant.

I think what we should do is to first look at our own consumption first rather than tell other people what to do because they are not the ones overconsuming.
Or at the very least help developing countries create a path to sustainability so they don't end up like us.
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,219
Boston
Making like 90% of all women sterile would be a better solution.
yea because children of men is the kind of future we need

Or at the very least help developing countries create a path to sustainability so they don't end up like us.
Developing countries are using a lot of unsustainable or "dirty" energy because it's cheap and able to respond to their rapid expansion, much moreso than clean energy. I dont remember the source but I saw some interview from a western source of some official from South Asia where they effectively said, how dare you fuel your own economic growth on dirty energy then come lecture us for burning coal
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
366
The OG Thanos.

You can look up the Malthusian cycle for more detail but in a nutshell: there is a a maximum amount of food that can be produced. Population will rise until it exceeds that amount of food, resulting in famines resetting the cycle. After things have stabilised again, population will start increasing etc.

What Malthus couldn't predict is the incredible advances we've made in food production over the centuries, such as fertilisers.

He thought humanity was fucked back in 1800 and look where we're now.
 

Militaratus

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,154
Mars colonization, when?

Staying on one single planet was a mistake, we always knew resources were finite and going to run out sooner or later.
 

Azraes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
790
London
I think a lot of people have been aware of this but we're living in a hypernormalized world. Fat good that did USSR and now we're taking it to a global scale that should be fun.

Anyway on point - climate change is going to accelerate a bunch of events. Water disputes already happen across several countries and territories. This is poised for escalation and is on a climate change watch as is. To put things into perspective there have been 263 conflicts from 2010 as opposed to 94 from 2000-09 and 100+ in the 1900s. And this doesn't even cover all the conflicts. [Source] Here's a paper on the geopolitical effects and conflicts from climate change.

Only 60 years of farming left if soil degradation continues isn't alarmist it's true. We do not have enough sustainable solutions. Some countries have under 40 harvests left before top soil no longer can sustain the growth of crops. A lot of European nations are in this boat. The Global Land Outlook was launched last year to look into this but we are still far away from a proper solution and with the way the political climate is, it's corporations that are trying to step in but even they aren't fast enough to help here.

Marine life is dying at a rapid rate. Pacific Ocean could just become a vast desert far quicker than imagined. Here's a recent piece.

There's far more in terms of using resources but the belief is that we will find other resources or start using other factors of production. It's not happening at any rate that can assist humanity. Besides if we destroy biodiversity and just keep ourselves alive it's not a long term fix.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,264
Mars colonization, when?

Staying on one single planet was a mistake, we always knew resources were finite and going to run out sooner or later.
Never. There isnt enough water, co2 or other resources(probably) on mars for a self sustaining colony. It would require tons and tons of resources which would be deleterious to planet earth. Thats not to mention entire lives being lived in corridors, where one mistake could lead to everyone dying.

A colony on mars will never happen, not in anyone's lifetime(maybe only by machine lifeforms), and it will be a huge waste of time and money. Our only recourse for long term survival is this one little planet that we know can sustain life.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Are you serious?

Having children is probably one of the most wholesome goals people have in life.

How dare you belittle their lives.

There are so many fathers and mothers on Era. Why would you think that their lives are to blame?
“Wholesome”? This is your argument?

I think having kids is a human right, in fact, so I am not actually disagreeing with your basic position. But I would support a limit on number of kids, in the face of fucking extinction.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,190
“Wholesome”? This is your argument?

I think having kids is a human right, in fact, so I am not actually disagreeing with your basic position. But I would support a limit on number of kids, in the face of fucking extinction.
That worked really well for China.

I am aghast at these posts.

You do it positively by offering birth control and abortion right and sexual education, not what you are proposing.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is all about offering positive solutions.
 

entremet

Member
Oct 26, 2017
36,627
Billions are living on borrowed time. The way population has multiplied during the past 200 years is insane.
Anyone who says anything else is a reality denyer.

There need to be large scale conservation programs for nature and a drastic reduction of population.
Other than killing people how are you going to achieve that? Population is already below replacement levels in the West.

And the West is the biggest consumer of natural resources.

We’re too comfortable. We want are extremely unsustainable car driven lifestyles.
 

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,768
It's easier for people to image billions of deaths as a solution then moving away from our unsustainable capitalist lifestyles Jesus christ
 

Deleted member 29806

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Nov 2, 2017
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Germany
What the fuck am I reading?

Edit: is this a meme thing?
I don't follow comics or superhero movies.
No it isn't but I find it a better idea than killing half of humanity, which was the solution in Avengers 3.

Another idea would be a virus that makes every woman sterile after childbirth. All 3 solutions would not be considered very kind, but desperate measures
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,335
Canada
Are you serious?

Having children is probably one of the most wholesome goals people have in life.

How dare you belittle their lives.

There are so many fathers and mothers on Era. Why would you think that their lives are to blame?
Your heart is too big and fluffy against what we might have to deal with.

But nothing seems to be getting done.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,596
That worked really well for China.

I am aghast at these posts.

You do it positively by offering birth control and abortion right and sexual education, not what you are proposing.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is all about offering positive solutions.
Go ahead and be aghast, dad. I actually made a choice about this, I don't have kids, but I'm guessing you do. I'm not going to judge your choice on a moral plane, but neither will I let you judge mine. This equation isn't hard – either almost everyone dies, or we choose to limit ourselves, in both the means you mentioned (birth control, sex ed, legal abortion) as well as preemptive, moral decisions about life unborn. Not to mention the entire other dimension of quality of life for generations to come.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,335
Canada
With Thanos being brought up I think we are talking deperate measures here, maybe a virus that makes every woman sterile after childbirth would be a compromise.
Lol I missed the part where the Avengers were brought up but yeah I really don't think we should fear or deny chances to curb lucrative habits if it means helping the only planet we have.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,190
Go ahead and be aghast, dad. I actually made a choice about this, I don't have kids, but I'm guessing you do. I'm not going to judge your choice on a moral plane, but neither will I let you judge mine. This equation isn't hard – either almost everyone dies, or we choose to limit ourselves, in both the means you mentioned (birth control, sex ed, legal abortion) as well as preemptive, moral decisions about life unborn. Not to mention the entire other dimension of quality of life for generations to come.
Uh, I don't have children. I am not even married.

But thanks for the morally empty suggestion.
 

Alej

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
399
We are fucked. Everyone of us writing/reading here while being less than 50 years old will experience the biggest global shit humanity will ever experience.

Near extinction experience.

Two possible solutions:

- treat global climate change like a comet who is arriving soon and will cause extinction. Our governments use every human resources on the planet in order to counter it.
That means autocracy.

- people change government to a global green autocracy NOW. That means war and autocracy.

Democracy/Capitalism/Free and Global Market/Productivism/Individualism was a mistake. Welcome the era of science, nature, efficiency and organization.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
That worked really well for China.

I am aghast at these posts.

You do it positively by offering birth control and abortion right and sexual education, not what you are proposing.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is all about offering positive solutions.
Yeah it did. Imagine how China would look today if they had 2 or 3 billion mouths to feed.

What we need is a world wide 2 child policy.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,335
Canada
And then ? It won't do anything alone.
boom.
we have to make some serious compromises.

the other worry is a domino effect.

Palm oils are bad for nature?
Limit use of products that contain them (if you can)
Business runs out of money
Lays off workers
Unemployment increases
Look to another (harmful) business practice
Repeat

Still, we'd need to regulate a lot more of the damage we're doing.

You do realize that the policy created a male to female imbalance of a catastrophic proportion.
China's situation, particularly how it respects boys vs girls, was the factor in that so ...i dunno, ideally there would be a lot less infanticide in more progressive countries.... but uh...
 

BAW

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,276
I don't think these warnings will actually amount to anything, it's obvious the governments of the world are firmly in "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" territory.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
You do realize that the policy created a male to female imbalance of a catastrophic proportion.
It's not the policy that created this, it's the Chinese believe that a girl is worth less than a boy.

Anyway, China is still better off with this imbalance then with a massive overpopulation. As I said, imagine 2 to 3 billion people living in China instead of 1.5.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,668
We are fucked. Everyone of us writing/reading here while being less than 50 years old will experience the biggest global shit humanity will ever experience.

Near extinction experience.

Two possible solutions:

- treat global climate change like a comet who is arriving soon and will cause extinction. Our governments use every human resources on the planet in order to counter it.
That means autocracy.

- people change government to a global green autocracy NOW. That means war and autocracy.

Democracy/Capitalism/Free and Global Market/Productivism/Individualism was a mistake. Welcome the era of science, nature, efficiency and organization.
Why is autocracy necessary?
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
But as long as your phone is 1mm thinner this year who cares about planned obsoleteness
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,190
It's not the policy that created this, it's the Chinese believe that a girl is worth less than a boy.

Anyway, China is still better off with this imbalance then with a massive overpopulation. As I said, imagine 2 to 3 billion people living in China instead of 1.5.
And holy hell at the utter dismissal of why the policy was instated.

I think you are seriously downplaying the effect of that policy by just referring to unconfirmed statistics.
 

Dirt McGirt

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,634
Lol I missed the part where the Avengers were brought up but yeah I really don't think we should fear or deny chances to curb lucrative habits if it means helping the only planet we have.
Nah let's rather control populations in poor countries (Which is also our fault they are poor.) so we the holy west can buy an iPhone each year and eat beef till we throw up.
 

Deleted member 29806

User requested account closure
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Nov 2, 2017
2,047
Germany
I don't like how the article is mixing resources and pollution and climate change.

About the resources, I think there would be one simple solution: People need to eat less meat. High population in itself isn't that much of a problem once we not destroy most of the food resources by producing meat. Even the air resource is tighly connected to this.

Fossile resources, who cares? We'll see if we are far enough with renewable energy once they are depleted. If not, we just need to refrain from some of our comforts.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,668
I think it's telling that all the sterilisation arguments are focused on women not getting pregnant.

Palm oils are bad for nature?
Limit use of products that contain them (if you can)
Business runs out of money
Lays off workers
Unemployment increases
Look to another (harmful) business practice
Repeat
Green jobs in energy and recycling would probably offset a lot of the job losses that result from regulation.

It's not the policy that created this, it's the Chinese believe that a girl is worth less than a boy.

Anyway, China is still better off with this imbalance then with a massive overpopulation. As I said, imagine 2 to 3 billion people living in China instead of 1.5.
You're crazy.
 
Feb 3, 2018
1,130
I for one am happy I am 32 by the time this shit starts to become a serious problem I am too old to give a shit, no kids either and not having any either too many damn people on this planet as it is.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,341
Massachusetts
Why is autocracy necessary?
People aren't even willing to pay taxes unless put under threat of imprisonment. People aren't willing to make the personal sacrifices necessary for a sustainable environment (on an individual or corporate level) without either massive incentives or threat of forces.

We've been trying to incentivize a shift to green energy, lowered consumption, and so on for years. Decades, even. It hasn't taken, because democracy is the will of the people, and people aren't willing to make those decisions on an individual or societal level.

You're not going to get a democratic government to outlaw farming of cows, or use of personal vehicles, or mandate a switch to green energy. Not on the timetable we have.

Honestly - it's autocracy now, autocracy later, or by some miracle we drive headlong into oblivion while clinging to the institutions that we think can save us.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,335
Canada
I think it's telling that all the sterilisation arguments are focused on women not getting pregnant.
Alright, boys, you heard 'em. Snip snip!

Forreal though, gentlemen, you can do your part too :P

Green jobs in energy and recycling would probably offset a lot of the job losses that result from regulation.
Mos def, hopefuly such fields become a loooot more lucrative to people and governments in the future.