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DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
People saying "he's right" are missing the forest for the trees. Someone else mentioned it earlier here but take a look at how Republicans have been operating for the past few decades. When have Republicans ever berated their voter base for complaining?

Newflash: Complaining gets votes.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
It's really that... he's not wrong that youth voter turnout sucks but what he's doing is exceptionally counterproductive.

It's not unlike his general attitude in the debates which is feels based on what the party can't accomplish instead of what it can.

How such a downer is so beloved is baffling to me. It indicates a rather defeated Democratic base, I think.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Those are not the people I am talking about. Thise that are capable but do not, then choose to bitch about the system. I'm also certain Biden is talking about the same. If you are perfectly capable and chose not to, then, sorry.

How big is the group you are talking about?

This type of argument seems to be used for tone policing and "know your place" silencing.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,613
here
isn't telling him your problems 'getting involved' in politics?

ur representatives should know your issues
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
is he... asking them to vote more progressive?

At this point I am seriously doubting he is still taking his campaign all that seriously. More likely that he is just incredibly arrogant and thinks he can gaffe his way to some sort of automatic nomination because he's Joe Biden, that guy who was best bros with Obama.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
If you don't vote, Trump gets re-elected and you moan then I agree with Biden. Getting involved doesn't have to be about big actions.
 

Robochimp

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,677
People saying "he's right" are missing the forest for the trees. Someone else mentioned it earlier here but take a look at how Republicans have been operating for the past few decades. When have Republicans ever berated their voter base for complaining?

Newflash: Complaining gets votes.

Young people aren't the base of the party though.

Republicans are literally able to put the fear of God in to their base.
 

MrGerbils

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
314
If you don't vote, Trump gets re-elected and you moan then I agree with Biden. Getting involved doesn't have to be about big actions.

Yes, please vote for anyone other than Biden. Do whatever little you can to not have this asshole win the nom.

Get out and vote in the primary.

And if Biden wins the primary get out there and vote third party in the general.

We have to do something to wake these old assholes up.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
and voters want their issues addressed, not dismissed

Joe makes it sound like whining, when instead most people want to know what he is going to do about their issue before they vote for him

He's not talking about voters in his comments though. He's talking about the type of college students that attend protests but never vote(it's quite common).
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
It's really that... he's not wrong that youth voter turnout sucks but what he's doing is exceptionally counterproductive.

It's not unlike his general attitude in the debates which is feels based on what the party can't accomplish instead of what it can.

How such a downer is so beloved is baffling to me. It indicates a rather defeated Democratic base, I think.

The youth and the left aren't the base, never were.

Drop out so we can elect someone that gives a shit.

Elections must be won - they're competitions, not promotions.

People saying "he's right" are missing the forest for the trees. Someone else mentioned it earlier here but take a look at how Republicans have been operating for the past few decades. When have Republicans ever berated their voter base for complaining?

Newflash: Complaining gets votes.

Republicans operate on seperate terms to the Dems. They're more inclined to fall into lock step, have massive propaganda networks to filter their messages and are more disciplined in general and they don't rely on the youth vote anymore than the Dems do to win elections. The youth vote is something to get voting over the top, not the backbone of political campiagning.

Republicans complain while voting, Dems don't. They appeal vastly more to older people, as well.
 

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
Young people aren't the base of the party though.

Republicans are literally able to put the fear of God in to their base.
Republicans operate on seperate terms to the Dems. They're more inclined to fall into lock step, have massive propaganda networks to filter their messages and are more disciplined in general and they don't rely on the youth vote anymore than the Dems do to win elections. The youth vote is something to get voting over the top, not the backbone of political campiagning.

Republicans complain while voting, Dems don't. They appeal vastly more to older people, as well.

They may not be the base but young Republicans still go out of their way to complain and vote simultaneously without getting berated on. Hell, its encouraged that they complain no matter the age group. I find it hilariously incompetent and self-sabotage in putting down your voter base's ability to complain. Complaining is what people do to get invested, its literally the first step of getting involved in the political process. Telling people to "shutup and vote" is literally telling them that the first step is stupid to begin with.

In addition, in regards to "Youth" in this context AKA Joe Biden bashing milennials, milennials aren't in college anymore. Hell, I'm a millenial; we are already in the workforce/attempting to get in the workforce.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
They may not be the base but young Republicans still go out of their way to complain and vote simultaneously without getting berated on. Hell, its encouraged that they complain no matter the age group. In addition, in regards to "Youth" in this context AKA Joe Biden bashing milennials, milennials aren't in college anymore. Hell, I'm a millenial; we are already in the workforce/attempting to get in the workforce.

Joe Biden doesn't mention millennials(that's HuffPO). He's explicitly talking about college students who protest but don't vote. It's something that's a gigantic problem for the left.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
"Get involved, but only in the way that I want"

I mean if Joe Biden wins the nom that's what the base decided. The primary is your point to vote in the election if your progressive. Once the noms are set, you vote based on the future you want, and, if someone like Trump wins, the non-voter is just as responsible as those who voted for Trump.
 

Deleted member 57378

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 2, 2019
360
He said it in a dickish way but if you voted for Trump, refused to vote for Hillary or in the 2018 midterms, it's hard to justify your complaints

That being said his own words here are a way to justify not voting for him in the primaries
Alot of us did and voted for them for a long time. Only to get concern tweets and olive branches to those who would want us literally dead. the established corporate democrates are either weak and inept, or complacent with what the GOP does. The evidence has been there for a loooong time.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
Alot of us did and voted for them for a long time. Only to get concern tweets and olive branches to those who would want us literally dead. the established corporate democrates are either weak and inept, or complacent with what the GOP does. The evidence has been there for a loooong time.

Yea can you imagine if Hillary had won and the Dems had taken the senate and house in 2016, we'd probably be in the same exact same position since you know they are complacent with what the GOP does and all according to apathy logic.
 

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
Joe Biden doesn't mention millennials(that's HuffPO). He's explicitly talking about college students who protest but don't vote. It's something that's a gigantic problem for the left.

Is it? What colleges are we, as a country, specifically relying on?

bRgO6.png


I reckon most of these "complaing college students" exist in universities/colleges in blue states.
 

Deleted member 11626

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,199
Obama's selection, and love for Biden continue to look worse as Biden gets more time in the spotlight. Fuckino DINO that doesn't deserve our support, but has an absurdly good chance at the nomination because the lobby is behind him. If he wins, then I am going to vote for him anyway, and hate myself the whole time for doing it. These fucks need to step aside and let those of us with an actual stake in the future, actually have a shot at doing something with it.

Boomers are the worst generation.

That's been undeniable for decades. They've damaged the means and potential of future generations because of their selfish shortsightedness, and they're even doubling down in old age. They're all going to die and leave behind chaos that the rest of us have to sort out. At this point, they're only worried about their own comfort in their twilight years. They are really only invested for the next ten years or so, but I don't think this country can handle another ten years of boomer politics and policies. They've been powerful and politically relevant for too god damn long
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
Is it? What colleges are we, as a country, specifically relying on?

bRgO6.png


I reckon most of these "complaing college students" exist in universities/colleges in blue states.

They aren't voting in primaries in any significant number nor are they getting out the vote in non-blue areas. (Also, there's a large number of college students in those red states)
 

MrGerbils

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
314
Do not do that. Four more years of Trump would guarantee progressive policies will never happen even in our grand children's time.

Four years of Biden would do that too. If Hillary had won people would be out at brunch while kids still got locked up in cages, folks still died from lack of health care, and we still started pointless wars.. it'd just all be done more politely.
 

Deleted member 57378

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 2, 2019
360
Yea can you imagine if Hillary had won and the Dems had taken the senate and house in 2016, we'd probably be in the same exact same position since you know they are complacent with what the GOP does and all according to apathy logic.
Well i remember the gop trying hundreds of times to repeal and overturn stuff durring obama. Even though they knew it was an effort futility. But democrats arent willing to fight back as aggressively. "We dont have the votes, he has impeached himself" as the most recent. Even if you cant win YOU STILL FIGHT. Not roll over and reach across the isle.

iirc didnt they have that the first 2 years of obama and all we saw was reaching across the isle?
 

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
They aren't voting in primaries in any significant number nor are they getting out the vote in non-blue areas. (Also, there's a large number of college students in those red states)

Why would someone from a blue state go to a red state? Atop that, we are still not addressing the fact that young Republicans can go out of there way to complain and vote at the same time without getting berated. Complaining, again, is literally the first step in getting involved in the political process. Having your political representatives/peers shout the mantra that taking that first step is useless is self-sabotage in alienating the potential voters in having that first step drilled into their heads as being useless thus you get apathy.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
They may not be the base but young Republicans still go out of their way to complain and vote simultaneously without getting berated on. Hell, its encouraged that they complain no matter the age group. I find it hilariously incompetent and self-sabotage in putting down your voter base's ability to complain. Complaining is what people do to get invested, its literally the first step of getting involved in the political process. Telling people to "shutup and vote" is literally telling them that the first step is stupid to begin with.

Because of what I said upthread, they're not 1 = 1 with Democrats either as an organisation or in mindset. They have issues with the youth vote, as well, millennials aren't their base. Nobody know the answer to get younger voters politically active, Biden's simply using the stick method to get them to challenge him. And Biden wants them to get to the next step, and gets irritated when too many don't bother doing that. Trump's got concentration camps and they shrug it off. If this environment won't get them to turnout, what will?

In addition, in regards to "Youth" in this context AKA Joe Biden bashing milennials, milennials aren't in college anymore. Hell, I'm a millenial; we are already in the workforce/attempting to get in the workforce.

The majority of millennials don't vote, had they done that reliably Biden likely wouldn't be a strong in the primaries as he is.


Alot of us did and voted for them for a long time. Only to get concern tweets and olive branches to those who would want us literally dead. the established corporate democrates are either weak and inept, or complacent with what the GOP does. The evidence has been there for a loooong time.

The evidence is that the system is more complicated with more barriers then you're willing to accept, and the fact that too few voted for Democrats when they needed it (this is why the senate is crucial) or we wouldn't be here in the first place. All the Dems have is what the voters gave them, and the voters never gave them the voters to do what needed to be done so they are working from a weakened position. Voting is the right answer, however, it requires long term investment with constant voting from every level in society it's not an instant panacea.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
Why would someone from a blue state go to a red state? Atop that, we are still not addressing the fact that young Republicans can go out of there way to complain and vote at the same time without getting berated. Complaining, again, is literally the first step in getting involved in the political process. Having your political representatives/peers shout the mantra that taking that first step is useless is self-sabotage in alienating the potential voters in having that first step drilled into their heads as being useless.

Because young progressives tend to complain but not vote. Young republicans will complain and even if their guy isn't in lockstep they'll hold up their nose to consolidate power cause it's the best path forward.
 

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
Again because they vote.

And again, because they aren't being berated for complaining.

Obviously the berating/lack of berating isn't the end-all-be-all of getting voter turnout. But as a milennial I do see where the current apathy stems from amongst my peers, being berated for taking that first step in getting your opinion heard is but one of a plethora of issues. And when you compare to the Republicans where they lack this self-sabotage, one rationally goes "maybe this putting down of political complaining needs to change?"
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,974
Yes, please vote for anyone other than Biden. Do whatever little you can to not have this asshole win the nom.

Get out and vote in the primary.

And if Biden wins the primary get out there and vote third party in the general.

We have to do something to wake these old assholes up.
It's like you want Trump to win

Please don't listen to this person
 

Nif

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
Four years of Biden would do that too. If Hillary had won people would be out at brunch while kids still got locked up in cages, folks still died from lack of health care, and we still started pointless wars.. it'd just all be done more politely.

What makes you think children would be locked in cages if Hillary had won? I also guarantee you Hillary wouldn't have nuked the individual mandate the way Republicans did. We'd also have one more liberal justice on the supreme court to stop things like Citizens United and the gross gerrymandering decision that recently happened. Allowing conservatives to win by sitting out of the process is incredibly damaging and taking things in the opposite direction people like you claim you want to go.
 

MrGerbils

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
314
What makes you think children would be locked in cages if Hillary had won? I also guarantee you Hillary wouldn't have nuked the individual mandate the way Republicans did.

Obama was already locking up kids and still holds the record for deportations (which includes family separations).
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
So, how many of those millennials interviewed/polled exist in red states?

They didn't say in the article.

This is a more comprehensive poll on youth voters from '18.

We wrecked the world...now engage, you selfish jerks!

Yes, they did wreck the world, but are the younger generations going to fix it? There is no hopping off this rock to another world, we're stuck with this one. So, what now? It's imperative for younger generations to replace the old ones, this isn't going to happen by not engaging. That's the whole point of changing the old guard.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
And again, because they aren't being berated for complaining.

Obviously the berating/lack of berating isn't the end-all-be-all of getting voter turnout. But as a milennial I do see where the current apathy stems from amongst my peers, being berated for taking that first step in getting your opinion heard is but one of a plethora of issues. And when you compare to the Republicans where they lack this self-sabotage, one rationally goes "maybe this putting down of political complaining needs to change?"

Again because they've shown historically they can be relied upon to actually vote and also the target of most Republican youth has been the Democrats. They tend not to eat their own, and the amount of truly grassroots movements are minimal.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
How big is the group you are talking about?

This type of argument seems to be used for tone policing and "know your place" silencing.
Well we have about 40% or more of registered voters who do not vote, take out those who cannot due to being in prison, instated that do not allow released convicted felons to vote, those that are discriminated, and those that just cannot make it regardless of thereason, I'm sure we are still left with a fairly sizeable chunk of voters in the 10s of millions that just sit on their hands and do nothing, or protest by not voting. Those are the people who, often I find are the loudest complainers of shitty policies that hurt them. They are a problem.

Why is a totally different argument, but it starts with voting. Followed by contacting you representatives. At a minimum, everyone should be doing this. Not everyone needs to join their local party or run for office, but refusing to take part and let you voice be heard by your representatives helps create the issues some of the they feel no reason to vote at all.

Youd be amazed how quickly a representative will change their side on something when 80% of their district contacts them. Prior to the announcement that over half the house is in favor, mine was not one. She was flooded with calls, letters and emails by most of her constituents. She jumped on board before to help get closer to 50%. She was one that said she will follow Pelosi but jumped the gun because we made it happen.
 

Nif

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
Obama was already locking up kids and still holds the record for deportations (which includes family separations).

The Trump administration made the decision to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal border crossing, which was not happening before. Children were held when there was reason to believe they were in danger, not because the people they were with crossed illegally. They were also not held indefinitely, which is what the Trump administration is pushing their conservative-appointed judges to approve.