Hundreds of Masked Men Assault Anti-Extradition Bill Protesters and Journalists in Hong Kong

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Seattle, WA
Sad to read this, Hong Kong is an amazing city, I'll be spending a few days there later this year.
One thing I'm quite ignorant about is who the Pro-China people are, are they all immigrants from mainland China or are there Hong Kongers who prefer less democracy and more state control?

They're probably mostly people who just want the whole thing to be over with now that the extradition bill has been "killed".
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
No one outside of Taiwan will care except for maybe some sanctions from UK for breaking the treaty. Taiwan is already lost to China since the 1950s.
EU.


And I'm sure the US will fight China again if they have to.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,783
Seattle, WA
EU.

Lip service.
Post Tianmen massacre EU banned weapons exports to China.

EU.
And I'm sure the US will fight China again if they have to.
US has made it clear that the only consequence of Hong Kong losing political independence is the loss of their preferential trade status.

There is nothing the west will do and frankly there isn't anything wrong with China ending one country two systems outside of the UK treaty. UK has the best case for sanctions.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
Sad to read this, Hong Kong is an amazing city, I'll be spending a few days there later this year.
One thing I'm quite ignorant about is who the Pro-China people are, are they all immigrants from mainland China or are there Hong Kongers who prefer less democracy and more state control?

They're probably mostly people who just want the whole thing to be over with now that the extradition bill has been "killed".
Also, Beijing lapdogs are guaranteed money and security at the end of all this. Anyone who is loyal to the CCP will win basically. Cash handouts have been handed out to pro-Beijing rallys for many years.
 

Armoured_Bear

Member
Nov 17, 2017
306
No-one will do anything meaningful to help Hong Kong, China is too powerful and rich and the world is far too corrupt now :(
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
There is nothing the west will do and frankly there isn't anything wrong with China ending one country two systems outside of the UK treaty. UK has the best case for sanctions.
Yes this is already known and obvious. UK could hardly care with the Brexit dumpster fire they have.

At least Hong Kongers will try to fight for what they believe is right and just, even if there are no results to be found at the end of it. At least those memories and histories will continue for people who are empathetic to their cause.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,753
London
The only way this Hong Kong thing is going to end is control by the CCP. The whole movement primarily lead by teenagers and early twenties people is going to backfire on them because the end of the one country two systems is hastened along by years / decades due to the ever growing list of things they're protesting and the unrest they caused. They really should have just stopped when they got the extradition bill killed.
China already violated the terms of the handover when they refused direct elections of the CE. The erosion’s happening anyways.

There is a case, but even if the UK weren't so spineless, there's nothing they could use as leverage against China.
Park the Queen Elizabeth in Victoria Harbour
/s
 

IDreamOfHime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,943
Saw a sloppy news report on UK tv that made it sound like the white shirts were the pro democ protesters.
 

Blade Runner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,055
I read elsewhere that the white shirt thugs are owned by the triads and the CCP makes use of them. Just disgusting.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
The Brits should have conquered all of Qing or the Western powers, including Japan, should have left Qing be.
Colonialism is a terrible thing. Don't ever advocate for it. It's terrible that Hong Kong ever became a colony, but that doesn't excuse Chinese fascist rule. People should have their own self-determination.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
204
I saw the post on Reddit. How much of it is true?
In short, the white shirts are gangsters within the Triads, the black shirts are protestors returning from the Central protests.
Many local businesses in the Northern NT pay the triads protection money in exchange for a stable business environment and much of the Northern NT is VERY pro-China. As the protests have scared away many mainland shoppers which some retailers rely on, the triads were called in to hunt down and beat protestors to bring back the status quo. Similar situation happened on Umbrella movement in NT years ago.
Village residents were warned to stay home this weekend as various triad groups mobilised and waited until the protests in Central were cleared before moving to MTR stations in Yuen Long, Tai Po, Tin Shui Wai and Tuen Mun and beating people wearing black clothes as that is the colour of the anti-extradition movement.
Most people had no idea the triads would actually make good on their threats and thus hundreds of returning protesters and innocent people were caught up in the violence.
This was made worse by the fact that most the HKP's best anti riot units were deployed on HK Island leaving a few local beat cops in Yuen Long to handle the all the shit going on. They failed and fled the scene “on purpose” and it wasnt for another hour before thousands of riot cops could be redeployed from Central to Yuen Long to stop things from escalating.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,626
Yes this is already known and obvious. UK could hardly care with the Brexit dumpster fire they have.
Brexit is tearing the UK apart, it's just not done with violence. There may not be a UK as it is today in a few decades because of it.

At least Hong Kongers will try to fight for what they believe is right and just, even if there are no results to be found at the end of it. At least those memories and histories will continue for people who are empathetic to their cause.
Would protesting like this would have really impacting Brexit? Both parties seem all-in on that.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,266
I read elsewhere that the white shirt thugs are owned by the triads and the CCP makes use of them. Just disgusting.
I read that too. Uhh, think this through Triads, aligning your criminal enterprise with the government may work in Russia, but it seems short-sighted here.

Would protesting like this would have really impacting Brexit? Both parties seem all-in on that.
Do the parties seem committed to Brexit? I mean, they keep voting against plans and delaying it. Millions of people marching in the street for days on end would give them an "out."
 

Armoured_Bear

Member
Nov 17, 2017
306
I read that too. Uhh, think this through Triads, aligning your criminal enterprise with the government may work in Russia, but it seems short-sighted here.



Do the parties seem committed to Brexit? I mean, they keep voting against plans and delaying it. Millions of people marching in the street for days on end would give them an "out."
How is China different from Russia in this case?
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
I saw the post on Reddit. How much of it is true?
In short, the white shirts are gangsters within the Triads, the black shirts are protestors returning from the Central protests.
Many local businesses in the Northern NT pay the triads protection money in exchange for a stable business environment and much of the Northern NT is VERY pro-China. As the protests have scared away many mainland shoppers which some retailers rely on, the triads were called in to hunt down and beat protestors to bring back the status quo. Similar situation happened on Umbrella movement in NT years ago.
Village residents were warned to stay home this weekend as various triad groups mobilised and waited until the protests in Central were cleared before moving to MTR stations in Yuen Long, Tai Po, Tin Shui Wai and Tuen Mun and beating people wearing black clothes as that is the colour of the anti-extradition movement.
Most people had no idea the triads would actually make good on their threats and thus hundreds of returning protesters and innocent people were caught up in the violence.
This was made worse by the fact that most the HKP's best anti riot units were deployed on HK Island leaving a few local beat cops in Yuen Long to handle the all the shit going on. They failed and fled the scene “on purpose” and it wasnt for another hour before thousands of riot cops could be redeployed from Central to Yuen Long to stop things from escalating.
90% sure those are triads. I lived in the Northern Territories and there is tons of smuggling across the border. Police turn a blind eye to this too.

Even if the the police aren't working actively together with the triads, they are openly letting them get away with it because it helps their position and narrative.

Would protesting like this would have really impacting Brexit? Both parties seem all-in on that.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,626
Do the parties seem committed to Brexit? I mean, they keep voting against plans and delaying it. Millions of people marching in the street for days on end would give them an "out."
Yes.

They have had plenty of chances for an "out" like that and missed every one deliberately, on both sides. The parties want Brexit as much as China wants Hong Kong.

Boris is one of the biggest supporters of Brexit, that's not going to stop it.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,240
Fucking unbelievable one of the lawmakers (Pro-Beijing legislative council member Junius Ho) was caught on film congratulating the thugs. And to add to insult, the police turned their backs on the people while they were getting attacked. HK'ers now have to fight against the police and triads, who are clearly working together.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
204
Also, CCP most influential official newspaper People’s Daily and Xinhua News Agency directly reported siege of Hong Kong Liaison Office to many mainland websites on the front page today.
It is a strong signal that Beijing may prepare mainland public for direct intervention and step into the crackdown.
I could foresee that in the worst case NPC Standing Committee would step in and use Basic Law article 18 to proclaim martial law on Hong Kong.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,266
How is China different from Russia in this case?
I can't speak to Xi's history, but Putin is intimately entangled with organised crime groups. Russia is a kleptocracy, dependent on the wealth of criminal activity and money-laundering, China is under the control of a very strong central government which makes money through industry.
 

Armoured_Bear

Member
Nov 17, 2017
306
I can't speak to Xi's history, but Putin is intimately entangled with organised crime groups. Russia is a kleptocracy, dependent on the wealth of criminal activity and money-laundering, China is under the control of a very strong central government which makes money through industry.
Thanks.
"Speak to" is one of those Americanisms that don't make sense to me, is it a recent term? Do people not use "speak about" or "speak on the subject of"?
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,266
Thanks.
"Speak to" is one of those Americanisms that don't make sense to me, is it a recent term? Do people not use "speak about" or "speak on the subject of"?
Dunno, I'm Canadian, this post says it started becoming popular in the 90s:

The phrasal verb speak to is widely used idiomatically to convey various senses, including show, demonstrate, express, relate to, address, or speak about. For example, one might say that this post speaks to the meaning of speak to, or that the existence of this idiom speaks to a gap in the language, or that these examples speak to how the phrase is commonly used. The phrase could usually give way to a one-word synonym, but people seem to like using it, especially in speech.

Because the phrase speak to is also widely used in other ways, tracing the exact origin of the newer use is difficult without exhaustive research. For what it’s worth, however, historical Google News and Google Books searches limited to pre-1990 texts uncover no instances (or very few, as we might be overlooking some) of speak to used this way, whereas a substantial number of examples are to be found from the middle 1990s. By the early 2000s, the idiom is ubiquitous.

Here's an example from the 60s, however.

I can speak to this one, but I can't speak to the Department of Defense situation.
– Hearings, reports and prints of the House Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries, U.S. G.P.O., 1967
From the same thread:

I'd suspected there might be a difference in distribution between "speak to * situation" and "speak to * condition." The top results from a quick Google Books search for "speak to * condition" are all from Quaker authors inspired by George Fox's claim that he founded their movement because one day in 1647 he heard a voice say "There is one, even Christ Jesus, that can speak to your condition." On the other hand, quite a few of the top results for "speak to * situation" also seem to be from Quakers.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
Hong Kong Government officials including Carrie Lam and Police Commissioner Stephen Lo just held a press conference at 3pm local time, with local press very angry at their slow and tepid response.

Carrie Lam held a press conference at 4am, some 4 hours after the storming of the LegCo Building on 1 June, yet today she comes out more than 15 hours after the Yuen Long attack last night. They really care more about their building than casualties and lost life.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,703
China is really turning into a hellhole, mass internment camps for Muslims recently, now this.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,626
Is Carrie Lam in danger of not getting elected again over this? Seems like this'd kill a political career in Hong Kong among the voters.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
Is Carrie Lam in danger of not getting elected again over this? Seems like this'd kill a political career in Hong Kong among the voters.
Beijing controls this. The Chief Executive is elected by a small committee loyal to Beijing.

The Chief Executive is elected from a restricted pool of candidates supportive of the Central Government by a 1200-member Election Committee, an electoral college consisting of individuals (i.e. private citizens) and bodies (i.e. special interest groups) selected or elected within 28 functional constituencies, as prescribed in Annex I to the Basic Law.

It's said that she wants to quit but Beijing is forcing her to clean up the mess. Besides no one wants that job anymore. She might as well be keeping it forever now.

 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,399
Disgusting, expected and a taste of things to come. I have no respect for anyone defending China in any way.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
In the 1900s, yes, but those days are past
Many firms still prefer to work in Hong Kong as it doesn't have the same restrictions in China (e.g. great firewall), with the plus of very low tax. It was a perfect balance of 'Western' rule of law mixed in with a Chinese controlled state. Rule of law is crumbling much faster than anyone would have anticipated.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,054
Earth
HK police official statement is they are not sure that the white shirt group participated in violence, and no arrest was made because they didn't hold weapon(They were sighted and photographed and filmed with stick and metal bar.
The violence perpetrated by the white shirt group resulted in at least 36 people wounded, and 1 is in critical condition


Police highest person in charge claim that police and Triad will never work together

Regarding HK...TVB is now pretty much just a speaker mouth for the government, most peopel are getting news and update from FB it seems
NOWnes might be ok, although kind of like to make big of little thing, they are the one that reported on the police firing on protester as they are leaving and such.

But most people are using FB to warn other of area where the white shirt people are gathering


Some other company like Shiseido are letting people off early or not opening to prevent their worker from getting into these incident
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,228
Spain
Disgusting, expected and a taste of things to come. I have no respect for anyone defending China in any way.
You have people here saying exchange Chinese students or Chinese immigrants are actually covert spies working for the government, that China is infiltrated in big western companies and controls them, that the US should unilaterally "destroy" China... Would you consider taking those fascistic Yellow Scare moments for what they are, "defending" China?

As for this, the triads hold lots of power in Hong Kong, are intertwined with the private sector, and they are known for doing these things. It's hard for me to believe they really want to become part of China proper, but for sure they will want to scare the population and keep "order" in order not to scare tourists or business opportunities or whatever, so I don't think this is necessarily the Chinese government doing this, but the triads are playing China's hand anyway.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,639
This is a different time we live in. If the gov't paying these hooligans think they can do this kind of shit and it will actually work they are mistaken. This will just make things much much worse for them.
Unfortunately I think you are mistaken :/

You have people here saying exchange Chinese students or Chinese immigrants are actually covert spies working for the government, that China is infiltrated in big western companies and controls them, that the US should unilaterally "destroy" China... Would you consider taking those fascistic Yellow Scare moments for what they are, "defending" China?

As for this, the triads hold lots of power in Hong Kong, are intertwined with the private sector, and they are known for doing these things. It's hard for me to believe they really want to become part of China proper, but for sure they will want to scare the population and keep "order" in order not to scare tourists or business opportunities or whatever, so I don't think this is necessarily the Chinese government doing this, but the triads are playing China's hand anyway.
What? You think this are the triads by their own volition?

Fucking lol
 
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sapien85

Member
Nov 8, 2017
2,681
This is a classic move by authoritarian governments. Happened a lot in the early stages of the Arab spring too.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
HK police official statement is they are not sure that the white shirt group participated in violence, and no arrest was made because they didn't hold weapon(They were sighted and photographed and filmed with stick and metal bar.
The violence perpetrated by the white shirt group resulted in at least 36 people wounded, and 1 is in critical condition


Police highest person in charge claim that police and Triad will never work together

Regarding HK...TVB is now pretty much just a speaker mouth for the government, most peopel are getting news and update from FB it seems
NOWnes might be ok, although kind of like to make big of little thing, they are the one that reported on the police firing on protester as they are leaving and such.

But most people are using FB to warn other of area where the white shirt people are gathering


Some other company like Shiseido are letting people off early or not opening to prevent their worker from getting into these incident
Even if they are involved with the triads, they did not remain impartial when dealing with the white shirts and anti-gov protesters. Anti-gov protesters were shot at with gas cannisters while policemen were seeing having a friendly chat with white shirts.

Airlines are getting affected too.

 

Kuma Bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,543
Japan
HK police official statement is they are not sure that the white shirt group participated in violence, and no arrest was made because they didn't hold weapon(They were sighted and photographed and filmed with stick and metal bar.
The violence perpetrated by the white shirt group resulted in at least 36 people wounded, and 1 is in critical condition


Police highest person in charge claim that police and Triad will never work together
Despite all the footage and witnessed? Sure...

This proves that the Chinese government already has too much control and its probably too late now. The people are great, the food is great, the nature is great but the government just sours the whole deal when it comes to China.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,626
Despite all the footage and witnessed? Sure...

This proves that the Chinese government already has too much control and its probably too late now. The people are great, the food is great, the nature is great but the government just sours the whole deal when it comes to China.
This was inevitable, sadly. They're just moving the time table up. The Chinese government is simply too powerful for protests like this to stop in its tracks.
 
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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,054
Earth
Despite all the footage and witnessed? Sure...

This proves that the Chinese government already has too much control and its probably too late now. The people are great, the food is great, the nature is great but the government just sours the whole deal when it comes to China.
Just look at their wording, peaceful protest are violent revolutionaryies that throw firebomb, bricks and other stuff, white shirt are just some people starting some skirmishes
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,228
Spain
Unfortunately I think you are mistaken :/



What? You think this are the triads by their own volition?

Fucking lol
I don't know and it doesn't matter, the result is the same. The Triads don't want Hong Kong to democratize, because they will lose power. They want to keep a status quo where they can profit from corruption, and they might think this is a way of keeping the established order. Since the interest of the triads and the Chinese and Hong Kong governments are intertwined, I dont think this is necessarily a case of the Triads receiving direct orders from the Chinese government, yeah.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,639
I don't know and it doesn't matter, the result is the same. The Triads don't want Hong Kong to democratize, because they will lose power. They want to keep a status quo where they can profit from corruption, and they might think this is a way of keeping the established order. Since the interest of the triads and the Chinese and Hong Kong governments are intertwined, I dont think this is necessarily a case of the Triads receiving direct orders from the Chinese government, yeah.
You obviously don't know and of course it fucking matters...

Both governments are behind this, not sure why are you trying to blame it on the triads