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Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,642
Hamburg, Germany
Bear with me here.

So we got plenty of threads about how shitty Epic is, and how insufferable Sweeney, and how unfair their buyouts are, and all that stuff. Besides all of that, I can't help but genuinely like the EGS so far.

When it started, I figured it'd be something like the beginnings of Humble Store or GOG after they went past retro games. A few somewhat good games for worse pricing, along with about 90% of indie games you can literally get anywhere for a better deal. The dev percentage split seemed like a scam and of course I, along with others, snickered about the once legendary Epic Games, now known only for Fortnite and other, more forgettable stuff, opening up a game store of all things.
But by now, I'm super surprised how this venture turned out.

Despite lacking some basic options like a cart (how!) the actual content really is hot. There's not a single filler game on there, the curation seems to be really good, and you can blind-buy almost every game without making a huge mistake.

This should probably have been the first point - I really do appreciate how they don't just throw their money at the biggest stars on the market aimlessly, but seem to care about finding a good exclusive or semi-exclusive basis of well-regarded or anticipated AAA games and many, many really cool but small-ish AA-/Indie games that simply would be forgotten days after release on Steam.

You can literally see this, for example, with the fantastic Operencia, which was on Steam's main page for about its release day and then never was seen again, while on EGS it's still just a tiny bit of scrolling away from any new customer, complete with its flashy big teaser image and all. Which I also like, by the way, no incredibly off-putting text list with tiny icons, surrounded by a jizillion "community" features and other lists and whatever the fuck, the games are front and center and get all the attention. GOG did this a while ago, which sadly didn't last too long, and I really liked their launcher back then as well (it's way better again in Galaxy 2.0, which fucking owns, btw).

Despite everyone throwing fits whenever it happens, I'm super happy for all smaller devs getting a shot on EGS exclusivity, I have a feeling they're not exactly paying change for the deals, and whenever devs get more (be it money, prominence or advertisement) out of their work, that's alright with me I guess. I also obviously very much appreciate the free games and Epics handling of this in paying the devs for every sold copy. (At least that's how I understood it works). In fact, Alan Wake being scheduled for next week's freebie, after I literally just thought about how it was basically erased from Steam after it was discounted to hell and back pretty much made me think about creating this thread.

I really hope this whole thing is working as a more profitable alternative for small and medium-sized game studios and single devs, and will find a solid stone to stand on its own (and maybe with less exclusivity deals as well). Personally, I also would like the bickering in every single EGS related thread to tone down a little bit -since this probably won't happen though: If there's any dev on Era who can share experiences with this storefront, or others who don't hate it and want to discuss it apart from its games' threads, that would be good too, I guess.

anyway, enough ramblings.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,038
Work
Yeah but EGS wants to compete with Steam. As they need more content to continue driving people onto the store, it's going to have more and more and more and more. Once you've got a couple hundred games worth of things, your visibility to the market who is buying your games is likely going to be far less than Steam. On Steam your able to follow curators who are tailored to content you like, and the automatic suggestions Steam gives to you are pretty solid the more you use the service, bringing attention to games that otherwise wouldn't get it.

The mass amounts of visibility games get on the store now is a temporary thing while they work on actually getting more games on their service.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,970
Canada
You know Operencia didn't release on Steam right? It wasnt on Steam's main page because its not out there until 2020.

Also are you seriously using Alan Wake of all games as an example of games getting buried on Steam?
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
There's not a single filler game on there, the curation seems to be really good, and you can blind-buy almost every game without making a huge mistake.

Obviously, quality is subjective and all that, but unless you consider everything to be good that's not an asset flip i find the point to be extremely debatable

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You can literally see this, for example, with the fantastic Operencia, which was on Steam's main page for about its release day and then never was seen again

Because Operencia isn't going to release on Steam until end of 2020.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,232
Enojy while it lasts, because Epic wants to make EGS as big as Steam. If they succeed, every new game will be on EGS too and it'll get just as crowded. The problem isn't curation, is that there's a TON of good games out there.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
The problem is that this great discoverability you're describing is literally impossible for any mature platform. They can't keep it up over years. Stuff will inevitably get lost. That's aside from whatever anyone may think of their business practices and what it bodes for PC gaming if it continues.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
I agree, it's a free store front. It's missing some features, but the free games are great, the sale was good and the exclusives they are buying are all very solid. I have zero issues with the epic store and the outage bugs me. Competition is good.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,643
So one of the biggest positive attributes is just due to the smaller library size? even without filler asset flip type content its going to end up in a similar situation to Steam fairly quickly in that regard.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
User Banned (1 Day): Trolling, misrepresenting the concerns of other users.
All the shitstorm over the Epic Game Store is typical gamer overdramatic whiney bullshit. Worry about something that actually matters.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
There was never any reason to hate on a digital storefront. Epic's offering is clearly interesting for those who create and publish games, and players aren't entitled to a choice of platforms/stores beyond those chosen by these creators/publishers.
 

R dott B

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
It's one of my favorite stores tbh. The client works and it has given me zero issues so I have no complaints.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Oh boy.
Bear with me here.

So we got plenty of threads about how shitty Epic is, and how insufferable Sweeney, and how unfair their buyouts are, and all that stuff. Besides all of that, I can't help but genuinely like the EGS so far.

When it started, I figured it'd be something like the beginnings of Humble Store or GOG after they went past retro games. A few somewhat good games for worse pricing, along with about 90% of indie games you can literally get anywhere for a better deal. The dev percentage split seemed like a scam and of course I, along with others, snickered about the once legendary Epic Games, now known only for Fortnite and other, more forgettable stuff, opening up a game store of all things.
But by now, I'm super surprised how this venture turned out.
Me too, they somehow managed to make me which was kinda interested on it facepalm hard with their focus on clearly not me.

Despite lacking some basic options like a cart (how!) the actual content really is hot. There's not a single filler game on there, the curation seems to be really good, and you can blind-buy almost every game without making a huge mistake.

This should probably have been the first point - I really do appreciate how they don't just throw their money at the biggest stars on the market aimlessly, but seem to care about finding a good exclusive or semi-exclusive basis of well-regarded or anticipated AAA games and many, many really cool but small-ish AA-/Indie games that simply would be forgotten days after release on Steam.
"No filler game", the mobile Rollercoster Tycoon game is in there!

You can literally see this, for example, with the fantastic Operencia, which was on Steam's main page for about its release day and then never was seen again, while on EGS it's still just a tiny bit of scrolling away from any new customer, complete with its flashy big teaser image and all. Which I also like, by the way, no incredibly off-putting text list with tiny icons, surrounded by a jizillion "community" features and other lists and whatever the fuck, the games are front and center and get all the attention. GOG did this a while ago, which sadly didn't last too long, and I really liked their launcher back then as well (it's way better again in Galaxy 2.0, which fucking owns, btw).
You mean Operencia, the game that did not launch in Steam due to it being moneyhatted? I wonder why it was never seen again in Steam if it hasnt launched there at all.

The UI is also a mess, having all the games only in one page, with only really having space for 4 visible games in a 1080p screen. This was already cumbersome before when they had only 20 games but now that it is 100 is even more annoying. For example this is the location of Operancia right now in EGS:
Whenever I have to scroll through it it gets quite annoying, but hey, at least now with the search bar I dont have to do that!


Despite everyone throwing fits whenever it happens, I'm super happy for all smaller devs getting a shot on EGS exclusivity, I have a feeling they're not exactly paying change for the deals, and whenever devs get more (be it money, prominence or advertisement) out of their work, that's alright with me I guess. I also obviously very much appreciate the free games and Epics handling of this in paying the devs for every sold copy. (At least that's how I understood it works). In fact, Alan Wake being scheduled for next week's freebie, after I literally just thought about how it was basically erased from Steam after it was discounted to hell and back pretty much made me think about creating this thread.
Most smaller devs arent getting in EGS though, and Alan Wake is in Steam too! It was just removed for some time because Remedy got the rights for the ip and had to change that part.

I really hope this whole thing is working as a more profitable alternative for small and medium-sized game studios and single devs, and will find a solid stone to stand on its own (and maybe with less exclusivity deals as well). Personally, I also would like the bickering in every single EGS related thread to tone down a little bit -since this probably won't happen though: If there's any dev on Era who can share experiences with this storefront, or others who don't hate it and want to discuss it apart from its games' threads, that would be good too, I guess.
maybe the tone will tone down if you also understood the issue other people have with the store instead of just saying we are wrong (not applicable to you but in general).

The part of the less amount of games making it easier to find gems also kinda misses the mark on how some games that were quite hyped before launch just had its hype die such as poor Ashen, dead on MP.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
I agree, it's a free store front. It's missing some features, but the free games are great, the sale was good and the exclusives they are buying are all very solid. I have zero issues with the epic store and the outage bugs me. Competition is good.

Competition that removes choice and takes away features is good... for whom? Not me the consumer. And thats who i care about.

OP os obviously clueless as well. Claiming a game that didn't release on steam is evidence of anything.

How are we supposed to take you seriously?
 

digifire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
310
Honestly I've already bought a few games off them, including what is ostensibly my game of the year (Outer Wilds), and while I'd rather have those games on Steam it's no worse than Uplay or Origin for me.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Not sure how arbitrarily excluding some devs without adequate explanation is a benefit to anyone other than the devs who do meet the arbitrary criteria to not be labelled "crappy", and are allowed onto EGS with a golden handshake.
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
I haven't tried it yet.

I hate the Steam shop and often have download issues where I load with 100kb or something. I doubt it's worse than that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,970
Canada
All the shitstorm over the Epic Game Store is typical gamer overdramatic whiney bullshit. Worry about something that actually matters.

If you think EGS outrage is seriously "typical gamer overdramatic whiney bullshit" you have no idea what you're talking about.

How dare people be upset about having to pay significantly more for games because of EGS. Fuck those guys stop whining.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
There was never any reason to hate on a digital storefront. Epic's offering is clearly interesting for those who create and publish games, and players aren't entitled to a choice of platforms/stores beyond those chosen by these creators/publishers.

I don't really agree with the first part as Epic has clearly demonstrated they will go after games that were already planned to come to other stores but in case anyone is unclear you are right, consumers are not entitled beyond the chosen place the developer/publisher chooses. If we were we would have games on every platform if possible and every storefront.
 
OP
OP
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,642
Hamburg, Germany
You know Operencia didn't release on Steam right? It wasnt on Steam's main page because its not out there until 2020.
That's weird, I distinctly remember it being shown to me on Steam for like a day max and me stumbling over it on there. Maybe it wasn't release day then, but early access?

maybe the tone will tone down if you also understood the issue other people have with the store instead of just saying we are wrong (not applicable to you but in general).

..I'm not doing that at all though? I get the criticism, well, most of it, I just think a lot of the drive-by shitposts in related threads are massively overblowing minor issues. Exclusivity per sé isn't a good thing, but I think I do understand that this is probably the only option to build up a competition towards Steam this day and age. I'm sure no one's first pick for "great PC store" is Greenmangaming or Gamersgate or Fanatical, despite all of them having way more comparable feature lists and libraries and sales, and despite all of them selling straight-up Steam keys.
 

Sankara

Alt Account
Banned
May 19, 2019
1,311
Paris
I honestly feel that the knee jerk reaction to EGS is hyperbolic and a lot of dumb conspiracy theories are out there that people fall for.

I don't like the exclusivity one bit, but I like developers are getting paid and are in better health. The toxic reaction by gamers also makes me want to take the side of developers who go EGS exclusive for a year, because the whining and complaining can be a bit too much.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,164
I have just created an account on EGS to buy Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, because I want to support its devs and don't think they deserve to have their game boycotted because of where they choose to sell it.

Call me shortsighted but they are a 5 or 6 persons team putting out a great game and they have 0 marketing budget, if EGS can let them earn a little more than they would elsewhere, then I'm happy for them.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,574
Beyond announcing games as exclusives - which only really matters if your game is already sought for - I don't see what kind of visibility a game is meant to have in the EGS? The store is a cluttered, unfiltered mess and it's only going to get worse as they get more games.

Epic's answer to discoverability is making a screen-sized banner for a several years old game just because its an AAA partner.
 
Jun 14, 2019
599
That's weird, I distinctly remember it being shown to me on Steam for like a day max and me stumbling over it on there. Maybe it wasn't release day then, but early access?

they did aplha/ testing on steam and then went epic store ecxlusives. i actually got into the testing and quickly fucked off back out when it went epic store exclusive.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
That's weird, I distinctly remember it being shown to me on Steam for like a day max and me stumbling over it on there. Maybe it wasn't release day then, but early access?
Nope, it was just the algorithm recommending you games you might enjoy that will launch soon. The game was never for sale in Steam.

I honestly feel that the knee jerk reaction to EGS is hyperbolic and a lot of dumb conspiracy theories are out there that people fall for.

I don't like the exclusivity one bit, but I like developers are getting paid and are in better health. The toxic reaction by gamers also makes me want to take the side of developers who go EGS exclusive for a year, because the whining and complaining can be a bit too much.
oh boy, not even 30 posts in and then we get with the "conspiracy theories".
 

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,495
Enojy while it lasts, because Epic wants to make EGS as big as Steam. If they succeed, every new game will be on EGS too and it'll get just as crowded. The problem isn't curation, is that there's a TON of good games out there.
Yeah, they don't actually have a plan for what to do once they get that big. And it's not going to stay manageable forever.
 
Jun 14, 2019
599
I honestly feel that the knee jerk reaction to EGS is hyperbolic and a lot of dumb conspiracy theories are out there that people fall for.

I don't like the exclusivity one bit, but I like developers are getting paid and are in better health. The toxic reaction by gamers also makes me want to take the side of developers who go EGS exclusive for a year, because the whining and complaining can be a bit too much.

if the dev isnt also self publishing their game then they arent getting paid for any of these deals. only the publisher is
 

Deleted member 4609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
767
I honestly feel that the knee jerk reaction to EGS is hyperbolic and a lot of dumb conspiracy theories are out there that people fall for.

I don't like the exclusivity one bit, but I like developers are getting paid and are in better health. The toxic reaction by gamers also makes me want to take the side of developers who go EGS exclusive for a year, because the whining and complaining can be a bit too much.

You spammed the ever-loving shit out of the MechWarrior thread stanning for a company that isn't delivering what people paid for and tried to take out the Steam bits in the pre-order blurb without anybody noticing. And when called out on it they went "haha it's totes nothing".
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Epic store sucks, but it's true. The overreaction is in large part because of its invading steams space, rather aggressively.

I'm gonna take my free games and never use it.
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313
Honestly, I don't care about what store I'm using. They're just front pages made for gaming, nothing more. The rest doesn't matter to me.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
I don't really agree with the first part as Epic has clearly demonstrated they will go after games that were already planned to come to other stores but in case anyone is unclear you are right, consumers are not entitled beyond the chosen place the developer/publisher chooses. If we were we would have games on every platform if possible and every storefront.
Regarding the bolded, the deals are signed because the parties agreed to their terms; Epic can chase a deal with any game, but it won't happen unless those people who are creating and publishing the games agree with it.
 

JCADX

Member
Oct 29, 2017
301
The intention may be good (i doubt it), but Epic execution is an absolute disaster. We have games that basically exist because people supported an idea, a promise (sometimes pretty specific in platform offerings), and when devs have the money basically ignore those backers interests. Not only Shenmue 3 here, but also games with investors, like Phoenix Point. Other games were already announced and even were accepting preorders on Steam (Mech Warrior 5 recent scenario, and Metro Exodus infamous situation) and people see how they need to wait for another year. Other games are different, like Hades, Tetris Effect or Borderlands 3. They chose to release in EGS from the very beginning, not tricking anyone. This is the deal, take it or leave it. But other scenarios were "this is the deal, but wait, we have money now, this is the new deal, accept it or wait". People chose refunds.

We should consider that games like Shenmue 3 or Phoenix Point became interesting for an exclusivity deal (or "curation proccess", however we want to call it) because there were people that believed in an idea, acting as investors or backers to fund it. In other cases, those games were supported by players with visibility in Steam through wishlisting, or guaranteed an userbase to the devs via pre-ordering. How can a dev propose a Kickstarter now? People are cautious. What if i back this game that is promised for Steam, and, when everyting is settled, a publisher steps in and sells an exclusivity to Epic?

Epic may be a golden mine for the devs now, because they are desperate to build a catalogue to force people to use its lackluster store (no shopping cart, no cloud saves, no competitive sales, no competitive keys, no mods, no features that basically get delayer over and over in their Trello roadmap) and basically pay for all the copies players will not buy and cover the refunds. But what they are basically doing is ignore player interests here, the ones that are supposed to buy their games and use their store. Fortnite money is there to compensate now, but what about the future? Epic won´t be able to sustain these deals forever, and when that happens, those devs that betrayed backers, pre-orders or promises will be in real trouble. And players still get no advantage in all of this exclusivity scenarios, being forced to use a lackluster client that raises privacity and security concerns too.

I, personally, think that Epic Games has a lot to offer. They own Unreal Engine, and could boost small devs incentivating projects from then with a real exclusive portfolio for the EGS (like Unreal grants that made games like Close to The Sun a Reality). They have a solid cross-play structure that is helping games like Dauntless or Rocket League reach more audiences. But in which way is a good idea to antagonize with the potential userbase? All the good they could do is buried thanks to all these fiascos and the big mouth of Sweeney in Twitter. When Mech Warrior 5 devs statement announcing EGS exclusivity covered more how the refund proccess will happen than the exclusivity itself, you know something is quite bad here. But Epic can´t see it, can´t see the good they could do being focused in their own anti-consumer strategy.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
I honestly feel that the knee jerk reaction to EGS is hyperbolic and a lot of dumb conspiracy theories are out there that people fall for.

I don't like the exclusivity one bit, but I like developers are getting paid and are in better health. The toxic reaction by gamers also makes me want to take the side of developers who go EGS exclusive for a year, because the whining and complaining can be a bit too much.



People are right to complain. What conspiracy theory is there to say Epic is pushing for a toxic model ?

Toxic for customers AND smaller developpers.

Toxic for customers because the way Epic operates means higher prices across the board (because they dont allow 3rd party stores or limited one which THEY decide if they can sell a game, which is monopolistic af but whatever and because costs are passed onto customers to sustain a 12% cut) and toxic for the smaller developpers because we already know who Epic is targetting: AAA and AA games, high profile indies who already made big sellers before. Their model is a combination of race to the bottom and picking the winners.

With that kind of model, you have the perfect recipe to:
1. Murder the indie scene
2. Make the PC market a closed walled garden with higher prices and high piracy rates because of subpar services.
 

Deleted member 29249

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,634
No issues so far with it for me, got a game ad it works. Would like the wishlist feature from steam so I can make stuff I want and cloud saves of course. Hope it gets there soon.
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,525
So many wrong statements in the OP...

For that, there's a main EGS thread on Era if you're just gonna have this fluff piece.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,561
Beyond announcing games as exclusives - which only really matters if your game is already sought for - I don't see what kind of visibility a game is meant to have in the EGS? The store is a cluttered, unfiltered mess and it's only going to get worse as they get more games.
Maybe Epic could go all in on the "exclusive" angle and boot games off of the store when their sales wind down. They'll always have Steam to fall back on, right?
 
OP
OP
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,642
Hamburg, Germany
Regarding the bolded, the deals are signed because the parties agreed to their terms; Epic can chase a deal with any game, but it won't happen unless those people who are creating and publishing the games agree with it.
Exactly. If there's a reason to hate this (and I honestly don't think there is, at least I don't understand how it would be one for the regular consumer who can use whatever store/launcher for free, while it obviously is a huge plus for the dev/studio which seems far more important to me), the hate against Epic seems misdirected in many cases.

So many wrong statements in the OP...

For that, there's a main EGS thread on Era if you're just gonna have this fluff piece.
I wasn't aware of factually wrong stuff when I wrote it, and I surely didn't add them on purpose. As many, I wasn't following EGS a ton when it was new, so I'm sorry if I misrepresented, like I seemingly did with the Operencia part.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I don't mind it either. EGS gives me free games, I've amassed a decent library without having to do anything. Good enough for me.

I also don't mind the common complaint of how barebones it is. I don't play games on PC that much anymore as it is, but I hate opening Steam because of how bloated it feels nowadays. EGS feels like the exact opposite. It's clean, it's simple, it works.
 

City 17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
913
Oh, there are filler games in there, and no, you can't blindbuy.

But most of the time they go for the more anticipated games on Steam using different tools (SteamSpy being run by their guy + getting illegal access to people's Steam data for a while) or just safe bets like successful KickStarters (Shenmue).

It's incredible how one can make it all look like a good thing, although all of them were either safe bets or from devs with a proven track record, on Steam, and with better features. Meanwhile Epic has no time, interest or money for the devs that are in a worse financial situation or don't meet Epic's arbitrary seal of quality, although they might be the next big thing, it's safe to say the next Hollow Knight/Stardew Valley/Undertale etc., won't be on Epic Store, not before they come big, only then Epic will try to make a timed exclusive deal with them.