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I actually don't hate Epic Game Store

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,206
You're just trying to dramatize things to get your point across (by suggesting Epic will take over and Steam will fade away) and it's becoming embarassing frankly.
Taking over is exactly what Epic’s trying to do. You may not see it, but a lot of us clearly do. Hence the reason they’re deliberately paying to keep games off Steam.

Valve’s saving grace is that there’s too many new releases for Epic to take on, and some publishers can’t be bought like 2K and Deep Silver.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,146
Taking over is exactly what Epic’s trying to do. You may not see it, but a lot of us clearly do. Hence the reason they’re deliberately paying to keep games off Steam.

Valve’s saving grace is that there’s too many new releases for Epic to take on, and some publishers can’t be bought like 2K and Deep Silver.


Trust me. A lot of people pretending not to see it can see it and hope for it to happen. All for platform warring.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,206
Trust me. A lot of people pretending not to see it can see it and hope for it to happen. All for platform warring.
Absolutely. They’re fighting to have less choices in the PC market, which is dumbfounding.
Of course the vast majority of Epic defenders are never seen in PC related threads, so that tells you all you need to know.
 

CrusoeCMYK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
418
The belief that Epic isn't in this to completely takeover the market has the same energy as believing they're here to save it. Might as well get sauced on the rest of Tim's reasoning for 'competitive' inducements.
 

DGP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
444
User Warned: Inflammatory false equivalence
The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,146
The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.

One person just readed what the people in charge of the store said. The fact that they had a summer sale like this just prove they're desperate.

Your kind of reaction is as pathetic as the one you're describing. You're basically the kind of person to complain years after when they're in a shit situation because they've been accepting shitty practices years before.

Is it an exageration to say games going EGS exclusive has seen their prices going up across the board ? Because we have price tracking websites to prove as such.

Again, people are just reading what Sweeney and co are saying.

And it smells like shit for customers:
Opt-in review system, no communities, no features, no seasonal sales (which they backtracked... For now in a desperate attempt to exist), no EGS keys unless they made a deal with a store (that's a new one indeed, the platform deciding if a competitor can sell or not. Disgusting). No discovery tools. Lot of curation. I can go on and on. Now if you want to believe the wealth will trickle down, I cant stop you from being super naive.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,916
The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
By "pretty damn good", are you talking about the sale that was so mismanaged that multiple games were pulled from the store entirely, at least one developer engaged in potentially illegal predatory pricing mechanisms, and people simply wanting to buy several games had their accounts erroneously flagged by antifraud measures?
 

Peff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
745
One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
Was that person Sergey Galyonkin, Director of Publishing Strategy for Epic Games Store?

There won’t be massive sales events that take up the entire store like on Steam. As to why, Galyonkin says such events effectively kill off sales for games that don't participate in them as well as for new games that launch right before that event. Instead, games on sale will be featured alongside non-sale games.
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,280
1. mechwarrior devs refunded anyone who wanted and they got to keep their preorder bonuses
2. we or you do not know that. read the mechwarrior thread about the reasons for epipc. the reasons for epipclike visibility, a lower cut (12 procent versus 35 procent)
3. sure, but the game will come out where the customers are any way, so...
4. maybe, but they are choosing to do what works for them now. the future problem would still be the same even if they chose steam
1. That's just the bare necessities that really. When you're making decisions like that, you're breaking the trust, and that is hard to recover from.
2. The lower cut doesn't effect the userbase.
3. How does that make my point any less true?
4. Yeah, sure, but being on all possible stores is at least one way of trying to maximize sales.
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,280
The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
That's really just you saying that you don't understand the discussion, and the arguments people have for not wanting to support the store.
Not exactly sure what you're trying to add to the discussion with your post here really.
 
Jul 18, 2019
262
Praha, CZ
1. That's just the bare necessities that really. When you're making decisions like that, you're breaking the trust, and that is hard to recover from.
2. The lower cut doesn't effect the userbase.
3. How does that make my point any less true?
4. Yeah, sure, but being on all possible stores is at least one way of trying to maximize sales.
1. you wrote they should be held accountable and that is what they are doing, so why argue against this?
2. you wrote that it would maximize potential sales and i wrote that the lower cut and more visibility will help with that.
3. i was saying that they don't expect you to jump through any extra hoops because it will come out on steam anyway
4. yes, and it will be on all possible stores eventually in an even better state than without the egs money

again, I recommend reading the link i send you, it gives many reasons why the mechwarrior devs took the right decision.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Taking over is exactly what Epic’s trying to do. You may not see it, but a lot of us clearly do. Hence the reason they’re deliberately paying to keep games off Steam.

Valve’s saving grace is that there’s too many new releases for Epic to take on, and some publishers can’t be bought like 2K and Deep Silver.
It's not going to happen, most people will continue to refuse to use the Epic store outside of some outliers like free games and exclusives. It's incredible seeing some act like they are the parental guardians trying to lecture everyone why nobody should support them and notify developers not to make any deals with them.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,785
The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
You have no idea what you are talking about and your gross exaggeration is really pathetic.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,303
1. They should do what's best for them. Of course you will say it's a cop-out answer but in reality they need to eat and survive so how can you blame them for taking money or some other deal?

2. Again you are grandstaning acting like you know better. Here's a thought, go make your own game and see if you can be successful at it. Coming to the forum acting holier than thou and suggesting to everyone what they shouldn't do is not only arrogant but misleading. Not every small developer has a success story even if they put their games on Steam only. You're just trying to dramatize things to get your point across (by suggesting Epic will take over and Steam will fade away) and it's becoming embarassing frankly.
1. Please read the question again. I have pointed this out to you several times yet you keep answering to the wrong thing.

2. It is not dramatizing to point out the obvious. If you are a small developer trying to keep the lights on, supporting a company that cuts you out from even competing is detrimental to your own interests. You don't have to be an actual developer to realize that you will be completely and utterly screwed if you can't bring your game to market. If the answer to that is, as you seem to be suggesting, "don't worry, Steam will still be around", can't you see that basing your argument in favor of a store to the existence and prosperity of its competitor is inherently contradictory?
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
You have no idea what you are talking about and your gross exaggeration is really pathetic.
Well we've now reached the hypothetical stages, where Steam is now the underdog and Epic is really the only option out there. It's pathetic the determintaion some have taken upon themselves to this guiding hand that takes us all away from the dark side.
 
Jul 18, 2019
262
Praha, CZ
i also worry that a lot of youtube grifters are taking advantage of the resentment and throw more fuel on the fire with their outrage videos just to get clicks. you know the ones, like yongyea and so on who when they are not raging against the "sjws and feminazis" they rage against game developers.

not saying that people here follow that, just that i worry about other parts of the gamers online who fall for their grift and get deceived
 

Adamska

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,738
Absolutely. They’re fighting to have less choices in the PC market, which is dumbfounding.
Of course the vast majority of Epic defenders are never seen in PC related threads, so that tells you all you need to know.
Have we actually reached the point where people who don't mind Epic's model are not "real PC gamers"? Lol.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,503
Free games are nice. But I will not support the timed exclusivity bullshit. I'm remiss to even support it on consoles (I've only done it once). They feel it's the only way to compete. But it's really not. And is only a very temporary solution.


The outrage over EGS is one of the most pathetic Gamer (TM) Outrage campaigns I've ever witnessed. If it weren't for Gamergate, it'd probably win the award.

Pretty much everything people have warned me about the EGS has been a gross exaggeration or just flat out not happened yet. One person told me it'd be the end of game sales if Epic has their way and literally weeks later, they had a pretty damn good Summer Sale type of event.
You do realize they straight up lost money there. They were eating the losses to promote their store. Not like that's going to continue long term. They're in a position due to fortnite that's allowing them to dump money on developers for exclusivity and sales like that. Also the latest crap like how Tetris Effect uses steam's services to run while being exclusive to Epic store. Is just a joke. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much value steam provides. I'm not saying that it won't help developers get better cuts in the long run, it already has. But their service is crap, they continue to miss rollouts for relatively minor features. They're competing for marketshare before they even have a proper competitive product. As it stands as soon as they stop dumping money, everyone will leave. They're focused on investing in the wrong things for longevity.
 

SlipperyMoose

Member
Oct 28, 2017
772
Does anyone have a link to a good video tour of the epic game store. I don't really do to much PC gaming but i'd be curious to see what it's all about.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,303
Well we've now reached the hypothetical stages, where Steam is now the underdog and Epic is really the only option out there. It's pathetic the determintaion some have taken upon themselves to this guiding hand that takes us all away from the dark side.
I have been asking you for three pages now to make an argument on the benefits of EGS for small developers and the only argument you made is that Steam will still be there for them.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,795
Msk / SPb, Russia
I don't hate any store either. I simply refuse to use those which don't care about me as a customer and care about some other completely irrelevant shit instead.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,785
Well we've now reached the hypothetical stages, where Steam is now the underdog and Epic is really the only option out there. It's pathetic the determintaion some have taken upon themselves to this guiding hand that takes us all away from the dark side.
What was the point of your post? You read what he said.
I have been asking you for three pages now to make an argument on the benefits of EGS for small developers and the only argument you made is that Steam will still be there for them.
they will never answer you.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I have been asking you for three pages now to make an argument on the benefits of EGS for small developers and the only argument you made is that Steam will still be there for them.
What was the point of your post? You read what he said.

they will never answer you.
The makers of Hayes, are they still not a small developer? They seem to think it's a good deal for them, they got their game noticed, I got a good sale on it. Nothing really needs to be said beyond that other than your continued persistanece nobody should be using the store because bad things might happen if we do.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,795
Msk / SPb, Russia
yeah irrelevant shit like making a better game thanks to the extra money or keeping a studio alive. try to see it from the developers' point of view?
I'm a gamer, not a developer. I won't make my experience worse in hoping that anything of what you've said is even true - which I'm not actually sure in as the last thing I'll do on this market is trust game developers.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,785
The makers of Hayes, are they still not a small developer? They seem to think it's a good deal for them, they got their game noticed, I got a good sale on it. Nothing really needs to be said beyond that other than your continued persistanece nobody should be using the store because bad things might happen if we do.
It seems like your not reading anything but you sure want to pretend that egs is a good thing for everybody. You also didn’t answer the question which is not surprising considering your other posts.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
73
The makers of Hayes, are they still not a small developer? They seem to think it's a good deal for them, they got their game noticed, I got a good sale on it. Nothing really needs to be said beyond that other than your continued persistanece nobody should be using the store because bad things might happen if we do.
Supergiant is a relatively large indie developer that has made several award winning games. At least one of them was a huge sales sucess. If they had been an unknown developer releasing their first game Epic would never have paid them for exclusivity. That payment is also probably the reason they decided to be exclusive.

The reason Epic is not going to be good for tiny developers is because Epic is not going to pay them for exclusivity and Epics curation means they are not even going to be allowed onto the store.
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Member
Apr 4, 2019
1,110
Greater Toronto Area
Supergiant is a relatively large indie developer that has made several award winning games. At least one of them was a huge sales sucess. If they had been an unknown developer releasing their first game Epic would never have paid them for exclusivity. That payment is also probably the reason they decided to be exclusive.

The reason Epic is not going to be good for tiny developers is because Epic is not going to pay them for exclusivity and Epics curation means they are not even going to be allowed onto the store.
It is widely known that Epic is using Sergey Galyonkin's SteamSpy to see what games are topping Steam wish lists to find their 'exclusives.'

Epic will never pay for indies that aren't already popular or becoming popular on Steam. Ironically most indie devs complaining about Steam can't make it into the EGS because they lack popularity on Steam.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,504
Argentina
It is widely known that Epic is using Sergey Galyonkin's SteamSpy to see what games are topping Steam wish lists to find their 'exclusives.'

Epic will never pay for indies that aren't already popular or becoming popular on Steam. Ironically most indie devs complaining about Steam can't make it into the EGS because they lack popularity on Steam.
People cheers curation then argue about indies having it better with EGS, pretty contradictory 🤣
 

tmarg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
542
Kalamazoo
The makers of Hayes, are they still not a small developer? They seem to think it's a good deal for them, they got their game noticed, I got a good sale on it. Nothing really needs to be said beyond that other than your continued persistanece nobody should be using the store because bad things might happen if we do.
I assume you are talking about Hades? They aren't a small developer. They made Bastion, which was wildly successful, and Transistor, which was also successful. They would receive ample promotion from any store they choose to put their games on. Also, I think we can safely say that they haven't been completely happy with the performance of Hades on the EGS, since they felt the need to illegally manipulate the price of the game during Epic's $10 off sale, and were forced to walk it back after threat of legal action.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,897
The people that are Steam only, or never EGS are lucky, they eventually get the EGS exclusives outside of EGS where Steam only games are hardly ever likely to be on anything but Steam. No EGS, no Origin (yes Origin sell non EA games), no GOG, just the allowance to sell Steam codes on reseller sites which the likes of Amazon, Pepsico, and Alphabet would nod in approval. Sure it's not Valve's fault that devs wipe their hands clean after throwing PC players a bone by giving them a port and forgetting about it, but EGS could give them incentive to at least put it on multiple launchers before being finished with the PC side.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,897
I’ve been seeing this a lot lol
I started to have a long post in reply to one. First asking who are in the EGS Defense Squad, and what threads are certified PC Threads. Personally I get a lot of my PC info and information elsewhere like Reddit, or Google before Era. I also don't really post in a lot of Steam event threads, or Steam related threads unless it's about Steam Input/Steam Controller, or gyro aim discussions with reluctant console gamers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,617
Austria
The people that are Steam only, or never EGS are lucky, they eventually get the EGS exclusives outside of EGS where Steam only games are hardly ever likely to be on anything but Steam. No EGS, no Origin (yes Origin sell non EA games), no GOG, just the allowance to sell Steam codes on reseller sites which the likes of Amazon, Pepsico, and Alphabet would nod in approval. Sure it's not Valve's fault that devs wipe their hands clean after throwing PC players a bone by giving them a port and forgetting about it, but EGS could give them incentive to at least put it on multiple launchers before being finished with the PC side.
What incentive does the EGS provide that all the other clients on PC don't provide?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,897
What incentive does the EGS provide that all the other clients on PC don't provide?
Cheaper royalties right now especially if it is a UE4 game like Tetris Effect, and more money on top of that. The reason companies port games to pc, or decide not to is money. It will then rake in money from Steam only people after. Win win for them, especially Sony who don't really need loyal PC players.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,617
Austria
Cheaper royalties right now especially if it is a UE4 game like Tetris Effect, and more money on top of that. The reason companies port games to pc, or decide not to is money. It will then rake in money from Steam only people after. Win win for them, especially Sony who don't really need loyal PC players.
I'm not really sure what you are saying.
What does Sony have to do with anything?
 

UF_C

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,221
Y
EGS's problem is four fold

  1. People REALLY like Valve for some reason (to be fair, I love their refund policy). EGS is a threat to that (it really isn't) so it must be bad
  2. For a lot of folk, EGS still has no killer app. Once it does it tends to be a similar progression of "Ugh, fine" to "This is barebones, but fine" to "Cloud saves would be nice. But aside from that"
  3. It is lacking a lot of basic shit. Cloud saves are a must in 2019 if your name isn't Joe Nintendo. I would need to check if it is still an accurate statement, but it isn't the best store for certain regions of the world ( admittedly, neither is Steam). And Epic already managed to get a history of dicking over some of their clients (Supergiant). And I am sure there are other straight up problems with it.
  4. This and 1 are the biggies: Most of the EGS benefits are actually for developers. Curated clientbase means you aren't going to get buried by every single mobile port made in unity. Clean store pages means you won't have people associating your "mature and nuanced" game with "Preteen Titty Grabbers 78: EX Edition" and so forth. And lack of social integration makes it less likely you need to pay your community managers to maintain a third party site. A bigger cut per sale is just the cherry on top.

So when you have a store that doesn't provide a lot of benefits to you, the gamer, that your fellow gamers are screaming is evil because Sonic is way lamer than Mario?

And if you get past that bullshit you then run into stupidity regarding fraud alerts due to too many individual purchases during a sale (that is why we have shopping carts) or having to search for where Hades keeps its saves before you reformat or just fucking you over if you are from a region of the world that EGS doesn't properly support.

Which tends to result in a combination of REALLY angry and frothy people screaming how much they hate EGS and a smaller portion of people saying "its not that bad. Its... mostly okay. Look, Satisfactory and Outer Wilds is my jam". And then when you have shit like "Oh em gee, they ruined the kickstarter you backed 12 years ago by changing the store for a year" people go ballistic (rather than realizing that THAT is actually a case of just being another launcher since no transactions are required).

---

What I have found most surprising though is that people pretty quickly stopped mocking it because of Fortnite. Maybe it is just me being out of touch with gamers, but the impression I always got is that Fortnite is Candy Crush or whatever: It is that game which everyone pretends to hate and think is for stupid kids. But that most of those people secretly play anyway. I totally expected EGS to get the "Ugh, it is a mobile game store" style vitriol. But apparently that got skipped. Go figure
you, and most other EGS defenders miss the point completely. We don’t want PC Gaming to become a walled garden. PC gaming is about an open platform where gamers get to CHOOSE where and how to play the game. EGS moneyhats go against this culture completely. Nobody cares that EGS opened up its own storefront. In fact, more competition is great. But when that storefront is an affront to everything that makes PC gaming appealing, we will hate the store with the power of a thousand suns.

Your whole post above is nonsense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,617
Austria
Alloeing games like Journey, Quantic Dreams games, and others on PC going to EGS first niw that there is a more profitable roadmap than just putting it on steam like Helldivers, and calling it a day.
You really think a company like Sony looks at a game like Helldivers and thinks "Man, if only we would have gotten an 88% cut on PC instead of 70%?" and that's why Journey is on PC now?
What about Microsoft then, they are putting their games on Steam now.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,146
Alloeing games like Journey, Quantic Dreams games, and others on PC going to EGS first now that there is a more profitable roadmap than just putting it on steam like Helldivers, and calling it a day.

It's cute that some people think Epic made a deal with Sony to release those games on PC.

Here's what happened:
Annapurna made a deal with Sony to release Flower and Journey on PC. Epic made a deal with Annapurna for Journey to be a timed exclusive.
Quantic Dreams bought the rights of their games. PC ports were planned long ago and there's even mentions of Steam/Steam Controller in the games files. Epic paid to have a timed exclusive.

Same for Tetris Effect.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,897
You really think a company like Sony looks at a game like Helldivers and thinks "Man, if only we would have gotten an 88% cut on PC instead of 70%?" and that's why Journey is on PC now?
What about Microsoft then, they are putting their games on Steam now.
Microsoft considers Xbox to be more than a console now (it's xbox live, and the services), and they own Windows, people also pushed and begged to get Halo and such on Steam, Valve even said they didn't have to do anything to make it happen. It was the demand of Steam fans, and Microsoft decided it was worth it to supply.

Sony isn't going to put its big first-party stuff on pc, but it seems like the games that go there is situational and since they are the publisher why not go for the most profit? During Helldivers move to PC, the EGS deals wasn't a thing.

Edit: I'll be back. On phone gtg for a bot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,617
Austria
Microsoft considers Xbox to be more than a console now (it's xbox live, and the services), and they own Windows, people also pushed and begged to get Halo and such on Steam, Valve even said they didn't have to do anything to make it happen. It was the demand of Steam fans, and Microsoft decided it was worth it to supply.

Sony isn't going to put its big first-party stuff on pc, but it seems like the games that go there is situational and since they are the publisher why not go for the most profit? During Helldivers move to PC, the EGS deals wasn't a thing.
You are really painting a pretty grim picture of Sony here because you are basically saying "Microsoft is listening to the demand of fans and Sony is looking at where they can make the most profit" and I'm not sure if that's intentional.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
543
Alloeing games like Journey, Quantic Dreams games, and others on PC going to EGS first now that there is a more profitable roadmap than just putting it on steam like Helldivers, and calling it a day.
Sony had nothing to do with that. Also EGS had nothing to do with the decision / porting of those games to the PC.
 

Walnut

Member
Nov 2, 2017
316
Austin, TX
Cheaper royalties right now especially if it is a UE4 game like Tetris Effect, and more money on top of that. The reason companies port games to pc, or decide not to is money. It will then rake in money from Steam only people after. Win win for them, especially Sony who don't really need loyal PC players.
How do you propose developers make money on the EGS once Epic stops buying exclusives, or if the developer is deemed unworthy of being bought out, or if the developer isn’t even allowed on the EGS in the first place, considering the active customer base on the EGS is small? 88% of a small number will always be less than 65-70% of a much larger number. Businesses are in it to make money, and unless your business has the golden ticket, it isn’t wise to launch exclusively on the EGS. Developers know this too, the only ones we’ve ever heard about putting their game up there are ones who got a check from Epic to do so.