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saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Let me make sure I understand this right because it has been a long day. You are implying,, well not implying straight up saying that ResetEra is somehow against Transgender LGBT and minorities .

Staff/moderation is one thing. Members is another thing. Despite having some flagrant blind spots, the moderation is some of the best online, considering the sheer size of Era. But when it comes to its members, Era is full to the brim with misoginy, racism and transphobia. As this thread and many others quite handily show. Gaming side in particular is a complete shitshow for any progressive issue. The only reason why Era doesn't devolve into what Gaf devolved to is its moderation and a few of its members who simply are having none of that.
 

Vinnie20

Banned
Dec 23, 2018
450
Maybe S8 is so bad people will sign massive partition to stop the Star Wars show? I am all for stopping those two hacks making more TV show, period.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,012
Considering how thorough the OP is, including the very informative edits, this thread is super embarrassing with the aggressive replies.
Yeah that poster who was banned on page 1 was like foaming at the mouth. Glad I didn't read the other 12 pages. Chill out people, there are much more important things in the world to get angry about.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I used to be sad that I wasn't a Star Wars fan, but now after Battle Front being a mess with MTX, and The Last Jedi situation I'm ok with not being a fan. I still haven't finished it, but because I'm just not interested to keep it running, even in the background. It seem to have a lot of questionable story and strategy decisions like this season of GOT (Angry Joe podcast on it).

In the end Star Wars fans are lucky, there's so many Star Wars media that they can afford to skip or not like a few of them, like Solo (I started this one too, I got to the explanation of his last name).
 

Pancoar

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,551
Considering how thorough the OP is, including the very informative edits, this thread is super embarrassing with the aggressive replies.
This thread makes me feel like I'm on GAF. The backlash against OP and other posters in here who've voiced their concerns against the show is so overblown it's ridiculous, and incredibly petty and dismissive simply because they have Dany avatars.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
the thing about callout posts is that they presuppose an agreement with the conclusions the poster has drawn from certain events, and how they reflect upon the character of the person being called out. In many cases there are far too many of these to allow for any one single opening to dispute the conclusion; they are all grouped together as being equal evidence and equally damning.

For most of the individual points here, I agree that when framed in this light, it looks bad. For many of them I think it seems unlikely for malice to be the cause, and for others I don't agree with the reading of the subtext.

I don't think I have a definitive thing I believe about the character of the writer producer team behind game of thrones. Maybe that will change one day, but for now i neither believe them to be angels or devils or anything in-between. who knows what they are.

I do know that I enjoyed and am enjoying the show they made. It isn't a perfect show. There are problems with it. Misogyny in writing is real. The representation of female characters matters. There's no reason medieval settings can't have more not-white people. How the fuck did
missande get captured
?

There is also good stuff. I have a lot of respect for the show as a work.

Anyways, what i'm saying is that reading this list of points and stuff and understanding its meaning hasn't changed me in any way. Most of this is stuff I already know, framed as meaning something I don't particularly agree it does. And frustratingly, it all comes from a progressive place that I'd consider myself part of. Maybe I have slightly different views than I think I do. Or maybe I just disagree.

either way, in direct reply to the main sentiment of this thread: it's always ok to boycott things if you feel like it.
 

TinfoilHatsROn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
Hey so I fucking hate Dany and want Jon's head on a pike for just being a dumbass who should have died permanently.

But D&D are still fucking terrible directors and absolutely hacks in every sense of the word.

They can barely follow a plot line given to them by Martin and once they have any bit of creative freedom to do something different they fuck it up.

Nor can they try to capture the spirit of GOT.

For this reason I look forward to them directing Star Wars. I wanna see how badly they'll fuck it up.
 

Froli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,653
Philippines
I'm just saying, I was okay with episode 3 even with the criticisms directed at it. But then Episode 4 broke me lol, I gave up and just straight up spoiled myself with the existing leaks. I just don't fucking care anymore
 

RockyMin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,450
Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong.

Incredible, you think your opinions are fact.

No it's not wrong. The EU is dead. Disney stated it and the new movies show that they did just that. And as someone who first saw A New Hope on the day it opened in theaters in 1977, the new movies do suck.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
Look, D&D's writing is racist and homophobic and sexist, we've been over this, but it's also just really bad regardless. There are plotholes so big you could fly a star destroyer through them, multiple times per episode. Characters behave in totally bizarre and unrealistic fashion on a regular basis. Their writing makes the Star Wars prequels look like Citizen Kane before you get to any of the bigotry.

You can tell when they ran out of source material (Thanks Martin!) and had to increasingly write their way out of the problem.

They crashed and burned, literally.

Dany going mad queen was foreshadowed the moment she offed her brother but it it went from subtle to sledgehammer in short order.

This along with completely removing nuance from characters. Remember when Cersei was the victim of sexist torture and treatment by the Fairh Militant? D&D don't, turning her into a cartoon villain. Arya becoming a 1 dimensional murdery murderer.

Even with the source material to play with, D&D messed with the progressive messaging of Martin and it shows.

It's frustrating because when it shines through, the show does show why the books are well regarded. This series has just shown why they shouldn't really be rewarded with a bigger project but I'm sure Disney will learn this soon enough.
 

Bulby

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,035
Berlin
Shitty shit. I barely picked up on any of this. It's all so true. Like what happened to Brienne. Wtf?

I dont know why everyone is so pissed at Brienne being emotional in that scene. She is a highly emotional character. Look how she reacted when Renly was murdered.

She is also a massively insecure person. She is incredibly strong willed and capable but she is insecure about her place as a fighter in a world of men, she is insecure about the way she looks and her femininity. And the first guy she lets past her barrier, bearing in mind she was a virgin at 30+ years old, who she thought she had built a real bond with, leaves her. She bottles up a lot of shit inside her.

This doesnt at all take away from how strong she is in her skill and mentallity. Its not about her being an independent woman and she doesnt need a man. Its about her being a real person who has weaknesses and insecurities despite her strength and will.

On one had we argue that being vunerable isnt a weakness and its ok to cry ect. and then as soon it happens we treat it like a sign of weakness. Whats the about?

The only issue with that scene is that because of this fucking hyper speed story telling we are currently on, we may not see Brienne again and that being her last scene would be an issue. But the scene itself is not.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,253
While i was initially a bit more dismissive, I can't say that i could disagree with / disprove any of the "receipts" in the OP.

While i'm not calling for a boycott or whatever, D&D's track record does seem to have some yikes-worthy segments.
 

KenobiLTS

Banned
Nov 27, 2018
1,166
Incredible, you think your opinions are fact.

No it's not wrong. The EU is dead. Disney stated it and the new movies show that they did just that. And as someone who first saw A New Hope on the day it opened in theaters in 1977, the new movies do suck.
Amazing you're telling me I shouldn't think my opinion as a fact while you're doing the same thing by saing "new SW movies suck". I mainly meant your "New SW movies are shit" statement in my earlier post. Yes EU is dead for good or bad, but I didn't mean that.
SW movies do not suck, you don't like them. There you go, now i fixed your wrong sentence.
 

Metal B

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,396
After the end of Session 8, we need a thread about who did the worst landing after falling from grace:
Daenerys Targaryen (Show) or Anakin Skywalker.

And it would be hard to say, who was worse. Daenerys did the chosen one aspect better, but Anakin at least had a better build up in being terrible early one. He had experience in killing children and woman before killing the Younglings.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I feel like OP knows them personally. I dont but I agree with him regardless
op isn't a man, brother, dude or guy

okay carry on. In this thread about sexism.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
I dont know why everyone is so pissed at Brienne being emotional in that scene. She is a highly emotional character. Look how she reacted when Renly was murdered.

She is also a massively insecure person. She is incredibly strong willed and capable but she is insecure about her place as a fighter in a world of men, she is insecure about the way she looks and her femininity. And the first guy she lets past her barrier, bearing in mind she was a virgin at 30+ years old, who she thought she had built a real bond with, leaves her. She bottles up a lot of shit inside her.

This doesnt at all take away from how strong she is in her skill and mentallity. Its not about her being an independent woman and she doesnt need a man. Its about her being a real person who has weaknesses and insecurities despite her strength and will.

On one had we argue that being vunerable isnt a weakness and its ok to cry ect. and then as soon it happens we treat it like a sign of weakness. Whats the about?

The only issue with that scene is that because of this fucking hyper speed story telling we are currently on, we may not see Brienne again and that being her last scene would be an issue. But the scene itself is not.
Uh. I agree. Where did I say anything that disagreed with what you said? Where did I say I was "pissed off at Brienne being emotional"?

It was nothing to do with how she reacted - it was everything to do with how Jaime treated her. That is, a nonsensical U-turn in his character development. Poorly setting up their getting together then pulling out the rug on that immediately for some kind of drama hit. Just weak, weak, weak.
 

dudefriend

Banned
Apr 27, 2019
416
To some of the people defending this crap I'd just like to say foreshadowing ≠ character development, Dany character wasn't at a point where this was believable, and also it wasn't just Dany character that was screwed over this episode
succinct and accurate. and they did it to the audience for no reason considering HBO was apparently willing to support a much more involved season, and seemingly the cast is too since they're all vocally disappointed
 

Bulby

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,035
Berlin
Uh. I agree. Where did I say anything that disagreed with what you said? Where did I say I was "pissed off at Brienne being emotional"?

It was nothing to do with how she reacted - it was everything to do with how Jaime treated her. That is, a nonsensical U-turn in his character development. Poorly setting up their getting together then pulling out the rug on that immediately for some kind of drama hit. Just weak, weak, weak.

When you said 'like what happened to Brienne, wtf'. I assumed you were referring to the OPs interpretation -
  • Brienne, a woman who repeatedly asserts her strength and independence, is paired off with Jaime, who immediately abandons her and leaves her a crying mess in the street
Apologies if I misread that.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
When you said 'like what happened to Brienne, wtf'. I assumed you were referring to the OPs interpretation -
  • Brienne, a woman who repeatedly asserts her strength and independence, is paired off with Jaime, who immediately abandons her and leaves her a crying mess in the street
Apologies if I misread that.
I get you - no I wasn't referring to that, but I think you're misreading that statement. The "crying mess" isn't the key part of that sentence, it's how her character is treated politically – she was always independent but now is relegated to a throwaway used by a male character, totally secondary to him. They could come back from this in the final episode, but it's unlikely.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
To some of the people defending this crap I'd just like to say foreshadowing ≠ character development, Dany character wasn't at a point where this was believable, and also it wasn't just Dany character that was screwed over this episode
I can't disagree with this.

The act was a clear case of the writers going "Oh shit, we need to get Dany to go mad queen asap" after ignoring the chance to build up to this over the last 2 series in a better fashion.

For the record I called this 2 days before the start of the series. The issue isn't the fact that it happened, but that it was shoehorned in to end her arc like it was.

The hints that Dany was never the leader her title proclaimed were there for years, but frankly overlooked by the writers until the 11th hour.

Maybe it's because I binge watched the show from series 1-7 but the clear idea was that Dany was so desperate to prove to herself she wasn't her father that she wouldn't notice when she did.

However, about 2 series of development in the other direction recently skewed this until this about face. It's frankly shit writing to get to the conclusion that was there all along.
 

dudefriend

Banned
Apr 27, 2019
416
i honestly hope they go through with it and add a bunch of their trademark gratuitous sexual violence and racism into a children's series because it'd be a hilarious way to kill off star wars

the new star wars shit is creatively bankrupt and aesthetically stagnant. theres no artistic reason for any of it to exist
 

larrybud

Member
Oct 25, 2017
716
the show is pulp fantasy. outsized violence and sexualization is par for the course. people love weird sex and killing shit.

it's almost as if we're just a bunch of semi-evolved animals. i'll take my antidepressents now.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
After the end of Session 8, we need a thread about who did the worst landing after falling from grace:
Daenerys Targaryen (Show) or Anakin Skywalker.

And it would be hard to say, who was worse. Daenerys did the chosen one aspect better, but Anakin at least had a better build up in being terrible early one. He had experience in killing children and woman before killing the Younglings.
Too late
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,143
i had thought the 'confederate' show had died. who the hell at lucasfilm thought it was a good idea to give their star wars show to anyone associated with that guaranteed disaster?
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Also the bizarre obnoxious sjw joke character in Solo was already an insane thing to exist. Expecting better is probably a silly thing.

The entire L3 thing was pretty mean spirited. Like, a character that was one big joke on activism and wokeness produced, written and directed exclusively by rich old white people. Expecting better from Lucasfilm at this point probably is silly.


Let's do a show about black people being enslaved in 2019 while we have an oppressive racist right wing government in power and a rising white supremacist mainstream culture bubbling!!! It's a passion project!!

D&D don't even have to write or make anything for me not to fuck with them off break.

and hiring them to make their own Star Wars series is a big fuck you to black folks who already feel very little love from Star Wars as a franchise

And yes, diversity at higher levels has been abysmal, and something KK needs to rectify and frankly should have planned it that way from the beginning. Easily her greatest mistake thus far. But, again, the productions we've received themselves have been progressive in their storytelling and casting.

Other than Rey and Jyn, both white women being leads, the Disney Star Wars films have been as progressive as any other production that places people of color in non important roles surrounding the important white characters.

You can't claim genuine diversity points off characters like Finn, L3, Enfy's Nest, Thandie Newton's "character" and the crew of Asian guys that died in Rouge One when even the little force user in TLJ was a brown haired white kid.

RJ and KK both have a poor track record for characters of color in quality and quantity, they won't help D&D not be trash.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,908
OP you need to get some air. Nothing is worth getting this filed up about. People creating new things, doesn't take away the things you already enjoy.

There's a finite amount of resources that will be put into Star Wars speficially. None of it should go to these two idiots.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,467
For most of the individual points here, I agree that when framed in this light, it looks bad. For many of them I think it seems unlikely for malice to be the cause, and for others I don't agree with the reading of the subtext.

The point here isn't necessarily that D&D are bigots, it's that regardless of their personal beliefs, they're clearly massively and harmfully ignorant. As I said in the episode thread:

It's (probably ignorantly and unwittingly) misogynistic writing, just like the show's treatment of PoC has been (probably unwittingly) racist, and the show's caricaturing of Renly and Loras as walking stereotypes was (probably unwittingly) ignorant and homophobic.

Point being: D&D are fucking dudebro morons who have no self-awareness in anything they write, and the homogeneity of the show's writers/directors couldn't be more plain. There are virtually no other voices around their table than straight white yes men.

I dont know why everyone is so pissed at Brienne being emotional in that scene. She is a highly emotional character. Look how she reacted when Renly was murdered.

She is also a massively insecure person. She is incredibly strong willed and capable but she is insecure about her place as a fighter in a world of men, she is insecure about the way she looks and her femininity. And the first guy she lets past her barrier, bearing in mind she was a virgin at 30+ years old, who she thought she had built a real bond with, leaves her. She bottles up a lot of shit inside her.

This doesnt at all take away from how strong she is in her skill and mentallity. Its not about her being an independent woman and she doesnt need a man. Its about her being a real person who has weaknesses and insecurities despite her strength and will.

On one had we argue that being vunerable isnt a weakness and its ok to cry ect. and then as soon it happens we treat it like a sign of weakness. Whats the about?

The only issue with that scene is that because of this fucking hyper speed story telling we are currently on, we may not see Brienne again and that being her last scene would be an issue. But the scene itself is not.

Here's what I thought about the Brienne scenes:

I wasn't angry at Brienne being emotional. It makes complete sense that Brienne would be emotional in-context.

What made me mad — and what I think is awful writing — is Jaime sleeping with Brienne to begin with, if he was only going to abandon her within hours. Brienne's self-perception of ugliness, and her life's events, have traumatized her. For her to lose her virginity to and feel loved and accepted by Jaime, only for him to abandon her, would compound that trauma and self-consciousness tenfold.

Moreover, that that could be Brienne's endpoint is just... it's all disgusting treatment of her character. It wasn't enough that these people write Brienne to often be largely opposite to her deeply empathetic, kind, and chivalrous book counterpart (see: her inexplicable bullying of Pod in earlier seasons), but they had to tear her down in the end, too. (I mean, the prior scene where Tyrion called out her virginity was already extremely mean-spirited. Both Lannister brothers come off as awful people in this episode.)

To circle back to the original sentence: women can be emotional. That's fine. What this episode, did, though, was have all these ostensibly Reasonable Men and Emotional Women. Jaime preyed upon and damaged Brienne emotionally. Tyrion inexplicably tries to reason with an inexplicably visibly emotional Cersei. Varys and Tyrion undertake an elaborate effort to gaslight the audience into thinking Daenerys is crazy, when that hasn't been earned, and discards all her positive character traits... which they have themselves praised before. It's (probably ignorantly and unwittingly) misogynistic writing, just like the show's treatment of PoC has been (probably unwittingly) racist, and the show's caricaturing of Renly and Loras as walking stereotypes was (probably unwittingly) ignorant and homophobic.

Point being: D&D are fucking dudebro morons who have no self-awareness in anything they write, and the homogeneity of the show's writers/directors couldn't be more plain. There are virtually no other voices around their table than straight white yes men.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,684
D&D can obviously adapt pre-written material for shows but once they have to come with their own ideas they obviously have no flair for it and things fall apart quickly.
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
op isn't a man, brother, dude or guy

okay carry on. In this thread about sexism.

tumblr_pqqar4vb3P1u84sa4o1_500.gif

tumblr_pqqar4vb3P1u84sa4o8_500.gif
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,387
D&D can obviously adapt pre-written material for shows but once they have to come with their own ideas they obviously have no flair for it and things fall apart quickly.
This is so far from the truth. Many people forgot that the best scenes from season 1 and 2 where not in the books. Fan favorite Bron would have been absent for most of the events after book 1. People still loved his scenes D&D wrote for him.

The Dany thing is 99,9 going to happen in the books as well. Martin has confirmed time after time that there will be minor differences between the book and the series but nothing more
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
D&D can obviously adapt pre-written material for shows but once they have to come with their own ideas they obviously have no flair for it and things fall apart quickly.

That and I dont know why they keep trying to do long form high budget storytelling

These guys burnout waaaay to fast on this formula

GOT tv series has some great high points, scenes and technical work. Its a shame that they repeated the history of Lost with this series (even if i personally liked the ending)

Either way Im with OP in that I wouldn't shed a tear if these guys are put in the bin in favor of a fresher and more dynamic creative group

These guys can't keep it together and you can see the damn dejected beat down look on their faces as they drone through the post episode documentary videos

The passion for their work left their bodies a few seasons back
 

Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,756
How about we don't give it to D&D

Give it to Phoebe Waller-Bridge instead, not only has she done the excellent Killing Eve & Fleabag, working on the upcoming Bond but she has already been in the world of Star Wars as an Actress in Solo.

I'm sure they could hold off until she is done on Bond.

Somewhere in the Trilogy she can give roles to Sandrah Oh & Jodie Comer, they don't even have to be in the same film together but even if they are it would be great.

They could Pair her up with Ava DuVernay co directing duties, it is time.
 
Nov 2, 2017
72
So these guys apparently have a laundry list of racism and sexism surrounding their work. But it's not until the second to last episode that people decided that they went too far? If this character got the ending you wanted, all else would be forgiven? If you stopped supporting these people 10 years ago this wouldn't be a problem.

Star Wars, just like GoT, is just a brand. It does not deserve this type of loyalty or outrage.

I love Star Wars and all, but I couldn't care less if the next movie is terrible. The movies I enjoy still exist.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,845
The past few seasons of GoT have been pretty shit by the standards of ASoIaF. Seasons 7 and 8 have been especially egregious.

...However, Star Wars is a fantastical fairytale with archetypal characters. The writing demands aren't the same, and I say this as someone whose favourite...anything is Star Wars. They'll do just fine.