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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Keza MacDonald article

Source

The downside to making something critically revered and loved by millions is that it isn't easy to get out from under its shadow. For Hidetaka Miyazaki and the game development studio he now leads, FromSoftware, Dark Soulswas a golden ticket. In 2004, Miyazaki was a designer on the Armored Core series of mech games. By 2015, he was the company's president and the games he has directed – Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodborne – have been lauded as some of the greatest of the modern era.

"FromSoftware had made adventure games, before we acquired our recent reputation for the series everyone is familiar with," he says wryly. "One of them was Echo Night. We didn't want to just recreate it, but we know what makes a good adventure game, and we thought, let's see what we can do. I've observed some surprise in the reactions so far from people who were not aware that FromSoftware does other things besides Souls. This serves as a reminder to me that we have an established reputation – and that we should work on different games, so we can be more flexible and build a broader profile. That's how I see our future.

"We'll obviously continue to make the larger scale productions that we've become known for. That is our reputation. But at the same time we want to put out one-off, quirky, flavourful games. We are not always given the opportunity and the timing may not always be right, but I think that is who we would like to be."

Miyazaki cites classic Japanese girls' manga as an inspiration close to his heart – he has been reading it for most of his life – as well as Celtic spiritual tales by Scottish Victorian writer William Sharp, published under the name Fiona Macleod.

"It's creatively fresh for me personally. I am drawing from different sources of energy," he says. "But it's not just me, it's the staff too. People working on our other games find it a nice change of pace! Internally, it's been perceived as a breath of fresh air. As you can imagine, our other title, Sekiro, has a completely opposite mood and direction. The more time I spend working on Sekiro, the deeper I sink into this zone of blood and gore and conflict. But if I want to get out of it, I can walk over to the other side of the studio and ease myself into a completely different feeling when I work on Déraciné.

"But after a while with this very quiet and calm story, I start to feel like it's almost too far from the stress of real life, and I can't stay in it forever, so I throw myself back into Sekiro. I think there might be some people in the studio who think I must be slightly mad to be able to simultaneously work on two completely different games, but it gives me flow and balance."

"I had a chance to check out some of the games that were in development before the current VR headsets shipped, which gave me a very strong sense of how VR can transport you; it feels like you exist in a different space," he explains. "But at the same time, when you try to touch or feel something in that space, it's not there. There is a sense of disconnect; of being there, but not really. It's an uncomfortable feeling that I wanted to harness and overcome, so I went back to a game concept that I had about being between worlds, about being present but not quite present, and thought about how VR could help me to realise it."

Really interesting article and comments, the whole thing is worth a read

Send me back to a bonfire if old
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
Déraciné is a wickedly odd concept. And it sounds so interesting.

On the other hand I legit can't really stand Sekiro. Still the top game director today IMO.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,050
Miyazaki is joining the long line of Directors that want to do something new but their fanbase would never allow them.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,171
i think it's cool he's going in a completely different direction with the psvr game. as much as i'd like to see more Souls-ish stuff

probably one of my most anticipated games though i'm particularly sure what it is or what to expect
 
OP
OP
oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Miyazaki is joining the long line of Directors that want to do something new but their fanbase would never allow them.

Well most directors are not also the president of their company, so he has a good chance of working on other things

It probably helps that the thing he is known for isn't an IP, but a type of game (Souls like) so he has more flexibility from the get go
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
Why can't you stand Sekiro?

An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.

Bland and has no heart are probably the most empty criticisms one can throw around, especially a game you haven't played no less. Theres literally what three minutes of footage from a likely 30 hour game?

Plus it's ok for a game not to be like souls. It doesnt have a character creator because it is not suppose to be like souls.
 

Oleander

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,589
Harnessing the disconnect of being able to see and not touch in VR sounds like it's the perfect game for the medium. I'm looking forward to both FROM games!
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
I wonder how emotionally draining and burdensome it must have been to make such truly dark and horrific worlds that the entire FROM team developed. Their atmospheres are so oppressive and sinister that I'm surprised they managed to make so many games over almost a decade.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
Bland and has no heart are probably the most empty criticisms one can throw around, especially a game you haven't played no less. Theres literally what three minutes of footage from a likely 30 hour game?

Plus it's ok for a game not to be like souls. It doesnt have a character creator because it is not suppose to be like souls.

I don't feel like what I personally feel is empty criticism. The areas look utterly devoid of what I like in From Software games. It looks very videogamey IMO. Just flat and very uninteresting. And not having a character creator doesn't excuse having a hero that IMO looks subpar and quite...well bland.

To each, his or her own. Hakuna matata.
 

Res

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
I don't feel like what I personally feel is empty criticism. The areas look utterly devoid of what I like in From Software games. It looks very videogamey IMO. Just flat and very uninteresting. And not having a character creator doesn't excuse having a hero that IMO looks subpar and quite...well bland.

To each, his or her own. Hakuna matata.

It looks very "videogamey" is perhaps one of the most nondescriptive terms I've heard that is used to describe a video game
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,424
Guess he got sick of reading Berserk too.
Ran out of Berserk to read*

I've seen Miyazaki mention his love of shoujo manga before. Now that I think about it too, he mentioned The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories as something he was reading in relation to his next game ages ago (which got me to read it - and while the stories are a mixed bunch, some of them are really good), and there's two shorts in that which are very Sekiro in hindsight (the one about the demon hunter, and the other about the blacksmith forging a mechanical body).

EDIT: Actually, those 'two stories' might have just been the one, Good Hunting.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
It looks very "videogamey" is perhaps one of the most nondescriptive terms I've heard that is used to describe a video game

It's quite simple. The Souls series and Bloodborne's first footage always hit me like it was some bizarre and kooky lived-in world. Even in trailers.

Sekiro didn't do that for me. If it did for you, that's cool! We can't all like the same things. It just didn't ring my bell in any way. Which was really disappointing for me, since it was my big E3 hype after the Game Awards.
 

Res

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
Ran out of Berserk to read*

I've seen Miyazaki mention his love of shoujo manga before. Now that I think about it too, he mentioned The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories as something he was reading in relation to his next game ages ago (which got me to read it - and while the stories are a mixed bunch, some of them are really good), and there's two shorts in that which are very Sekiro in hindsight (the one about the demon hunter, and the other about the blacksmith forging a mechanical body).

Lol that prosthetic is begging to have a cannon or crossbow attatchment
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,481
An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.

EDGE, massive From fans, have played it and said it's absolutely brilliant.

Anyway, Souls fans should not sleep on You Died, co-written by Keza MacDonald.

https://you-died.com/book/

It's really good.
 
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semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140

An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.

right now, i see the game as some kinda souped-up ps2-era character action game homage. not really sure why he's chosen to go this route. maybe he just wants to have some simple, straight-forward fun for a change? :) ...
 

TGM3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
It's quite simple. The Souls series and Bloodborne's first footage always hit me like it was some bizarre and kooky lived-in world. Even in trailers.

Sekiro didn't do that for me. If it did for you, that's cool! We can't all like the same things. It just didn't ring my bell in any way. Which was really disappointing for me, since it was my big E3 hype after the Game Awards.

It's not even about liking/not liking something, you just keep using fluffy meaningless language to try and describe a game you've seen a few minutes of. You said "The areas look utterly devoid of what I like in From Software games." but haven't actually said what it is they're devoid of. You said the "heart" is missing but wouldn't choosing to make Sekiro over another entry in a hugely popular series mean there's more heart in its creation? It looks "videogamey" but the areas in previous Souls games didn't? It's fine to have tempered expectations if the trailer didn't grab you in any way but you're talking without actually saying anything.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
It's not even about liking/not liking something, you just keep using fluffy meaningless language to try and describe a game you've seen a few minutes of. You said "The areas look utterly devoid of what I like in From Software games." but haven't actually said what it is they're devoid of. You said the "heart" is missing but wouldn't choosing to make Sekiro over another entry in a hugely popular series mean there's more heart in its creation? It looks "videogamey" but the areas in previous Souls games didn't? It's fine to have tempered expectations if the trailer didn't grab you in any way but you're talking without actually saying anything.

Well what did you like about it? Me not liking the same footage you've seen, should be fine. I respect that. We can't all like the same things.

Like you've said I've only seen a few minutes. But so did you. We had opposite reactions. That's OK. I'd never write off your opinion as fluffy and meaningless. I mean this footage is meant to sell the game. And it won't sell to everyone.

And I did say what felt wrong to me IMO. Again just my opinion. It doesn't look authentic to me, in the way the previous From games did. If you disagree that's cool.

Anyway there's a great Miyazaki piece up there, I feel we are losing track of. He's a phenomenal director.
 
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TGM3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
I haven't come to the opposite reaction as you. Notice that I haven't actually given my opinion on what we've seen because we've seen so little.

Again, it has nothing to do with liking or not liking something. I'm asking if you can be more descriptive with your criticism because what you've said gives absolutely no insight into what you're trying to say other than you're not pleased. Using words like "heart" & "Videogamey" without actually clarifying what they mean is absolutely fluffy and meaningless and you're doing it again by saying it "doesn't look authentic". What does authentic mean here? All I'm getting from what you're saying is that you're yet another Souls fan who can't take not getting another Souls game.

It's good to see Miyazaki push forward on different fronts rather than continuing to retread old ground. FROMSOFT have a long history of dipping their toes into various genres and experiences and even if they've not always been great they're at least usually somewhat interesting.
 

SCB360

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,639
Well did you like about it? Me not liking the same footage you've seen, should be fine. I respect that. We can't all like the same things.

Like you've said I've only seen a few minutes. But so did you. We had opposite reactions. That's OK. I'd never write off your opinion as fluffy and meaningless. I mean this footage is meant to sell the game. And it won't sell to everyone.

And I did say what felt wrong to me IMO. Again just my opinion. It doesn't look authentic to me, in the way the previous From games did. If you disagree that's cool.

Anyway there's a great Miyazaki piece up there, I feel we are losing track of. He's a phenomenal director.

For whats its worth I do agree with you, comparing Sekiro with Ghosts of Tsushima or even Nioh and Sekiro does feel a bit underwhelming,

However, this could all be early footage and we'll be blown away by some closer to release
 
OP
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oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
For whats its worth I do agree with you, comparing Sekiro with Ghosts of Tsushima or even Nioh and Sekiro does feel a bit underwhelming,

However, this could all be early footage and we'll be blown away by some closer to release

To me personally, I think the combat looks a lot more fun in Sekiro, however I thought both Sekiro and Ghosts of Tsushima looked fantastic

I'm glad From are trying new things, as Samurai Souls would have been disappointing to me.

I don't want them to make Dark Souls 4 but with a different name and setting, I'd much rather they try new things
 

rocketpunch

Member
Dec 19, 2017
469
Great interview. I'm anxiously awaiting both games.

Anyone read anything by William Sharp/Fiona Macleod? I might pick up one of the books.
 

Baku

Member
Jan 24, 2018
352
I haven't come to the opposite reaction as you. Notice that I haven't actually given my opinion on what we've seen because we've seen so little.

Again, it has nothing to do with liking or not liking something. I'm asking if you can be more descriptive with your criticism because what you've said gives absolutely no insight into what you're trying to say other than you're not pleased. Using words like "heart" & "Videogamey" without actually clarifying what they mean is absolutely fluffy and meaningless and you're doing it again by saying it "doesn't look authentic". What does authentic mean here? All I'm getting from what you're saying is that you're yet another Souls fan who can't take not getting another Souls game.

It's good to see Miyazaki push forward on different fronts rather than continuing to retread old ground. FROMSOFT have a long history of dipping their toes into various genres and experiences and even if they've not always been great they're at least usually somewhat interesting.

Are you having a bad day or something?

I totally agree on the point of it looking "videogamey". While dark souls and bloodborne have worlds that really feels alive and "true", the footage of sekiro looks a lot like "bland video game level design".
The MC is not really interesting designwise.
But it's a first look and I personally believe the game has more to offer.

The combat looks rad though IMO.
 

TGM3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
Are you having a bad day or something?

I totally agree on the point of it looking "videogamey". While dark souls and bloodborne have worlds that really feels alive and "true", the footage of sekiro looks a lot like "bland video game level design".
The MC is not really interesting designwise.
But it's a first look and I personally believe the game has more to offer.

The combat looks rad though IMO.

Define "videogamey". Why does one game look videogamey while another doesn't. Define "alive". I'm asking really basic and simple questions, just define the words.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2018
10,255

An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.
Would have also liked a character creator myself.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I know he means something else but if my takeaway from this can be "dark souls was partially inspired by shojo manga" that's what it's gonna be
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,365
That's encouraging to hear, it'll be nice if they can get back to delivering a diverse catalog of games like they did pre-Souls.
 

Sasliquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
I don't want to know anything about his VR games except when it's out. All I can find is a general 2018 release?
 

Baku

Member
Jan 24, 2018
352
Define "videogamey". Why does one game not look videogamey while another doesn't. Define "alive". I'm asking really basic and simple questions, just define the words.

Okay okay.
Alive: When the world feels real. There is purpose to the design and the world feels "lived in".
From software, rockstar and naughty dog are top tier at this.

Videogamey: Leveldesign to basically act as a background to the gameplay. Not too much attention to details and stuff doesnt really add up.
Like when its just a theme but it doesn't really feel like it's a real place.

Are on the same page yet?
 

TGM3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
141
Okay okay.
Alive: When the world feels real. There is purpose to the design and the world feels "lived in".
From software, rockstar and naughty dog are top tier at this.

Videogamey: Leveldesign to basically act as a background to the gameplay. Not too much attention to details and stuff doesnt really add up.
Like when its just a theme but it doesn't really feel like it's a real place.

Are on the same page yet?

And from the few minutes of footage we've seen, explain how these things apply to Sekiro but not a Souls game? Bloodborne absolutely had a very distinct theme to it, so is it videogamey? It's even more ridiculous that you're trying to ascribe your definition of videogamey when it means "Not too much attention to details and stuff doesnt really add up" and you've seen a few minutes of footage. How could you possibly come to that conclusion?
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
I'm a little unsure about the direction they're taking with Sekiro and the VR thing, but Miyazaki and the talented devs of Fromsoft have earned my respect in a way that no other developers in the world have -- So I'm willing to give it a more than fair chance.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Okay okay.
Alive: When the world feels real. There is purpose to the design and the world feels "lived in".
From software, rockstar and naughty dog are top tier at this.

Videogamey: Leveldesign to basically act as a background to the gameplay. Not too much attention to details and stuff doesnt really add up.
Like when its just a theme but it doesn't really feel like it's a real place.

Are on the same page yet?
I don't think we've seen enough of the game to say that about Sekiro.

The trailer was story and action focused, not level focused which is where your complaints are.

Bloodbornes trailers were action or level focused without giving you any idea what the story was.

The lack of story details in the Bloodborne trailer didn't result in a game devoid of story but if you just went off the reveal trailers I can see why someone would assume it would. But people didn't assume that because they knew it wasn't a story focused trailer which is why I'm not assuming the worst by the Sekiro trailer.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
An ancient Japan/horror fusion "Souls-like" was basically my dream game. Nioh was great but didn't quite get there. I personally think Sekiro looks bland. I don't feel like the heart behind the Souls games and Bloodborne is beating here. The focus on a designed character that frankly looks terrible IMO, is not a good choice. There should have been a character creator here. I don't feel like this is a hero anyone will remember in a couple years. And what I've seen from the bosses, and the combat is just underwhelming. I didn't expect this from Miyazaki.

I'm now wondering if I saw the same trailer as you did. What I saw looked like my most anticipated title of next year.
 

Baku

Member
Jan 24, 2018
352
And from the few minutes of footage we've seen, explain how these things apply to Sekiro but not a Souls game? Bloodborne absolutely had a very distinct theme to it, so is it videogamey? It's even more ridiculous that you're trying to ascribe your definition of videogamey when it means "Not too much attention to details and stuff doesnt really add up" and you've seen a few minutes of footage. How could you possibly come to that conclusion?

I don't think you and me will ever understand each other. I never said that if a game have a theme-it makes it videogamy, but you seem pretty literal.

But my first impression of the aesthetic is "meh pretty bland japanese theme" and kind of basic design for a feudal japanese themed game. Sure, I can't say that things won't have purpose or add up.

I was describing videogamey more in a broad sense than I should've I guess.

But I don't feel the special kind of world building that From can deliver, but that is just first impressions from a short video. Those feelings might change with more footage, which I hope and believe they will.
But I sure hope its allowed to have "first impression feelings".
 
Dec 6, 2017
10,991
US
I...am strangely excited about this Deracine title even though I have no idea how this'll play in practice. Not as psyched as for Sekiro, but still.

Also, good interview.