I can't enjoy Chrono Trigger as much as I think I should.

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,235
Yeah, I know this is gonna be controversial. This isn't intended as a hot take, though, and I'm not in any way trying to dismiss Chrono Trigger's status as a classic or say it's bad. I just don't find it that enjoyable and I wanna say why so I can know if some of you guys actually agree with my reasons or not.

Chrono Trigger is one of the most acclaimed and beloved games of all time, and yet, after trying it many many times, I still don't think it's all that great. It is probably the game I have started and quit most times in my life. I tried to play it at many different moments since I was a kid, then as a teen, then in high school, once again in college, and now as an adult, and I always end up running out of steam at some point. Never finished, got so far as the Black Omen once and never did it or the side quests. I'm currently playing it again, and I intend to finish it once and for all this time, but this playthrough is making clear for me why I have always struggled so much with the game.

For one thing, I can see what the game has going on for it: it is incredibly polished, it is a luxury of a game. It looks amazing, sounds amazing, the variety of animations and little scenes and things you can do is nothing short of impressive. The game feels expensive. I suppose since it had so many great talents that were stars of the industry at the time (still are), Square wanted to get the most of them, it probably had a really big budget so the devs were allowed to go crazy with it, and it shows. The story was also very good and it hit a sweet spot between being complex enough to be interesting and engaging without sounding pretentious or alienating and simple enough to be easily enjoyable without feeling childish, and I don't think any FF ever topped that.

Now, to the things I don't like. There are basically two major problems that kill my will to progress in the game:

1- It takes too damn long to be able to fast travel. You might read this and be like "this guy is crazy, the game is literally about going into portals and appearing somewhere else". Well, the portals in the game don't act like fast travelling, just as regular doors, really. You have have to walk to get to it, you go through it, you appear at a predefined place and have to make your way to place you're actually going. Until you upgrade the Epoch so it can fly, basically in the end of the game, there isn't anything at all that will reliably teleport you to the place you want, you always have to go to the nearest portal and cross the rest by foot. I lost count how many times I had to rethread the same damn paths through freaking Truce Canyon and Guardia Forest, it gets to a point where I give up on doing stuff because I have to go through these same areas again, fight the same weak enemies again. Every. Single. Time. There isn't any vehicle that will facilitate transversal in the world map either (super weird considering this game is basically a DQ/FF crossover and these games always have these things) so, wanna go to that island? Sorry pal, no way to cross the ocean, go to portal X, then portal Y, then through a cave, fight the same enemies, then fuck you. Again, I know the flying Epoch solves this, but it comes way too late in the game and you have to struggle with this for most of it.

2- The combat is kinda dull and there's basically no sense of character progression. Yes, you level up the characters and they get stronger just like any other RPG, but that alone doesn't feel like progression. Aside from small things like being able to heal, or use magic, the characters don't learn new stuff that change the way you play or allow you to perform new powerful combos. They aren't very different from each other in the first place. There's basically three abilities: physical damage, magical damage and healing, and then you have each character do a combination of them, boom. Getting new characters usually don't represent getting access to game changing abilities, they will probably just do the same stuff other characters did in a different way (like Frog can do the same Crono and Marle already did, but combined; Ayla can only do physical damage as Crono and Frog already did, but stronger). Listening to Retronauts' episode on the game recently, they said CT feels like a combination of DQ and FF that gets rid of all the bad things of those games and boy, I couldn't disagree more. The battle system and character evolution simply strips away all the strengths DQ had (turn based strategic precision and resource management) and FF had (character based diversity of abilities and great progression with over the top combos and builds).

Sure, there are double and triple techs, and they are luxurious. The amount of programming and animating that it took to make all of them is impressive and part of the game looking so gorgeous, but, in the end, many of them are redundant, since most of them basically do more damage/ heal more HP. They have an interesting system where the position of the enemies influence the AoE but that wasn't really explored all that much. There might be more about the systems that I'm not aware of, but if there are, the game does a bad job making me use them, because I can get around doing the same thing every time. The boss battles are like puzzles sometimes, but still, you're just attacking and healing, just in a different pattern. In the end, I think the battles were intended to be more visually appealing than anything, as the variety and quality of animations is, again, fantastic, but in terms of gameplay, they feel very repetitive for me.

So yeah, I guess in a few words, the game has incredible production values but in terms of gameplay it isn't engaging enough for me and that ruins the pacing. It's tedious to move around and I don't feel like I'm getting stronger, and there are other contemporary RPGs with much better systems in those two regards. I suppose the huge appeal of the game comes from either people playing it when it came out (which I didn't), or people who don't care as much for the battle system as for other elements, like the story, graphics, characters, etc.

I'm ready now, come for me. Or is there anyone there who agrees with me?
 

Jeronimo

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,997
It sounds like you've tried a few times and don't like this game. No set amount you "should" enjoy it exists. BTW, I've never played it.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,489
Your #1 seems like a complaint you'd have of any 16-bit RPG of that era of the Square/Enix style. You very rarely got access to vehicle traversal until late in the game in any of these.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
29,009
I think it's a really solid and well-crafted game but I never got the "best game/best RPG of all time" talk. I'm not gonna call it "overrated" because I think that's a term that says less about the game and more of the public's reception to it, but I feel as far as RPGs go, the characters are less memorable than say, the average Final Fantasy, where I feel like I get to intimately know these characters and watch them come together as a true party. I like Robo, Magus, and Frog, but the rest of the cast is kinda forgettable to me (and really I only find Robo and Frog particularly memorable for their character designs).

Amazing soundtrack though. Definitely one of the all-time greats.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
It was amazing at the time. It isn't entirely surprising that people would lose patience with it today. Appreciate the soundtrack.
 

Indelible

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,045
Canada
Not every game is going to click with everyone, it is personally my favorite game ever but I understand if someone doesn't like it.
 

Spongehead56

Member
Jul 6, 2018
210
Wisconsin
I loved Chrono Trigger when it came out, and played through it multiple times. But it's hard to enjoy nowadays. I've tried to replay it a couple times over the past year and it never hooks me. Don't try and force yourself through it. Let it go and move on :)
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,756
I've been meaning to try Chrono Trigger at some point. Curious to see what I think about it after playing it.
 

Deleted member 60096

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 20, 2019
1,295
It's ok to not like a popular game.
This, its okay not to like it and forcing yourself won't help. The amount of times I've tried unsuccessfully to playthough Trails in The Sky, so that I could understand CS3, waiting to find it interesting is insane. Theres a certain point when you realise that no amount of time will help you like a game that doesn't click with you
 
Oct 26, 2017
557
You are allowed to dislike or like anything at all, whether it's a piece of media, an idea, an interaction, or literally anything, no matter how many people on the internet tell you how you should or shouldn't.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
4,693
I played through it and I thought it was fine. Probably revolutionary for its time, but it's just okay now. At least for me. It's okay if you don't like a popular game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,805
Your #1 seems like a complaint you'd have of any 16-bit RPG of that era of the Square/Enix style. You very rarely got access to vehicle traversal until late in the game in any of these.
To be fair, in FF4, FF5 and 6, you get access to chocobos very early, and FF5 throws stuff like the boat and Faris' dragon into the game every few hours.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,372
It was amazing at the time. It isn't entirely surprising that people would lose patience with it today. Appreciate the soundtrack.
Agreed. I adore it and it's my favorite game of all time, but if you're a person who doesn't appreciate the pace of games from this era, I can definitely see feeling like it moves too slowly.

I still think it feels brilliant. Great story telling and characters. Better time travel story than most time travel stories in any medium.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,805
This, its okay not to like it and forcing yourself won't help. The amount of times I've tried unsuccessfully to playthough Trails in The Sky, so that I could understand CS3, waiting to find it interesting is insane. Theres a certain point when you realise that no amount of time will help you like a game that doesn't click with you
I bounced off the game too. You're talking about TotS:FC? I was eagerly awaiting the town to blow up or the villagers to get smoked and have the plot actually start....until it didn't. Spent like 10 hours trying to get into it but it was boring as fuck
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,852
It's also okay to try to get into a game....

I tried Mass Effect THREE times and hated it. Forth time I fell in love.

So, sometimes it pays off. This has happened multiple times, too.

Saying "just don't play if you don't like" is a little off here, imo. Sometimes you've had a mindset shift or it just clicks for you when it didn't multiple times before, and it could be something very special in the end that is worth the extra effort.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,489
To be fair, in FF4, FF5 and 6, you get access to chocobos very early, and FF5 throws stuff like the boat and Faris' dragon into the game every few hours.
But those forms of travel are limited in their utility at that point in the games making them essentially the same as the "portal" issue the OP has to begin with (only having access to certain areas to "land" in and then having to walk the rest of the way). Honestly, the traversal in those games is so short at any given time it's not like you're walking from one city to another in something like Skyrim after all.

About the only annoying thing I find is the battles in something like Gardia forest being static and thus monotonous in that case.
 

Notorious Roy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
You're a mad man. MAD I TELL YOU!

But yeah, sometimes you don't enjoy games other people do. It happens, even though I completely disagree with everything you say about Chrono Trigger. This will be a boring thread though with everyone telling you the same thing. Triple Tech at least should make you feel like you're progressing in combat? Have you tried Luminaire as Crono? I felt so strong when I first used it...

Also, about Fast Travel... Chrono Trigger is as streamlined as an RPG can be, I didn't miss it at all in the beginning. When I got the option it felt like the whole world just opened up like a blossoming flower for me to enjoy. I could go back to all those mysterious boxes! And what about all those time traveling side quests? I enjoyed them so much. I made a difference in the world. But prior to that, nope, I was just focusing on the adventure and the next problem I had to face.
 

Galactor

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
620
play it emulated on pc and abuse the fast forward key and save states. Its anime disguised as an JRPG
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,085
Yeah, I know this is gonna be controversial. This isn't intended as a hot take, though, and I'm not in any way trying to dismiss Chrono Trigger's status as a classic or say it's bad. I just don't find it that enjoyable and I wanna say why so I can know if some of you guys actually agree with my reasons or not.

Chrono Trigger is one of the most acclaimed and beloved games of all time, and yet, after trying it many many times, I still don't think it's all that great. It is probably the game I have started and quit most times in my life. I tried to play it at many different moments since I was a kid, then as a teen, then in high school, once again in college, and now as an adult, and I always end up running out of steam at some point. Never finished, got so far as the Black Omen once and never did it or the side quests. I'm currently playing it again, and I intend to finish it once and for all this time, but this playthrough is making clear for me why I have always struggled so much with the game.

For one thing, I can see what the game has going on for it: it is incredibly polished, it is a luxury of a game. It looks amazing, sounds amazing, the variety of animations and little scenes and things you can do is nothing short of impressive. The game feels expensive. I suppose since it had so many great talents that were stars of the industry at the time (still are), Square wanted to get the most of them, it probably had a really big budget so the devs were allowed to go crazy with it, and it shows. The story was also very good and it hit a sweet spot between being complex enough to be interesting and engaging without sounding pretentious or alienating and simple enough to be easily enjoyable without feeling childish, and I don't think any FF ever topped that.

Now, to the things I don't like. There are basically two major problems that kill my will to progress in the game:

1- It takes too damn long to be able to fast travel. You might read this and be like "this guy is crazy, the game is literally about going into portals and appearing somewhere else". Well, the portals in the game don't act like fast travelling, just as regular doors, really. You have have to walk to get to it, you go through it, you appear at a predefined place and have to make your way to place you're actually going. Until you upgrade the Epoch so it can fly, basically in the end of the game, there isn't anything at all that will reliably teleport you to the place you want, you always have to go to the nearest portal and cross the rest by foot. I lost count how many times I had to rethread the same damn paths through freaking Truce Canyon and Guardia Forest, it gets to a point where I give up on doing stuff because I have to go through these same areas again, fight the same weak enemies again. Every. Single. Time. There isn't any vehicle that will facilitate transversal in the world map either (super weird considering this game is basically a DQ/FF crossover and these games always have these things) so, wanna go to that island? Sorry pal, no way to cross the ocean, go to portal X, then portal Y, then through a cave, fight the same enemies, then fuck you. Again, I know the flying Epoch solves this, but it comes way too late in the game and you have to struggle with this for most of it.

2- The combat is kinda dull and there's basically no sense of character progression. Yes, you level up the characters and they get stronger just like any other RPG, but that alone doesn't feel like progression. Aside from small things like being able to heal, or use magic, the characters don't learn new stuff that change the way you play or allow you to perform new powerful combos. They aren't very different from each other in the first place. There's basically three abilities: physical damage, magical damage and healing, and then you have each character do a combination of them, boom. Getting new characters usually don't represent getting access to game changing abilities, they will probably just do the same stuff other characters did in a different way (like Frog can do the same Crono and Marle already did, but combined; Ayla can only do physical damage as Crono and Frog already did, but stronger). Listening to Retronauts' episode on the game recently, they said CT feels like a combination of DQ and FF that gets rid of all the bad things of those games and boy, I couldn't disagree more. The battle system and character evolution simply strips away all the strengths DQ had (turn based strategic precision and resource management) and FF had (character based diversity of abilities and great progression with over the top combos and builds).

Sure, there are double and triple techs, and they are luxurious. The amount of programming and animating that it took to make all of them is impressive and part of the game looking so gorgeous, but, in the end, many of them are redundant, since most of them basically do more damage/ heal more HP. They have an interesting system where the position of the enemies influence the AoE but that wasn't really explored all that much. There might be more about the systems that I'm not aware of, but if there are, the game does a bad job making me use them, because I can get around doing the same thing every time. The boss battles are like puzzles sometimes, but still, you're just attacking and healing, just in a different pattern. In the end, I think the battles were intended to be more visually appealing than anything, as the variety and quality of animations is, again, fantastic, but in terms of gameplay, they feel very repetitive for me.

So yeah, I guess in a few words, the game has incredible production values but in terms of gameplay it isn't engaging enough for me and that ruins the pacing. It's tedious to move around and I don't feel like I'm getting stronger, and there are other contemporary RPGs with much better systems in those two regards. I suppose the huge appeal of the game comes from either people playing it when it came out (which I didn't), or people who don't care as much for the battle system as for other elements, like the story, graphics, characters, etc.

I'm ready now, come for me. Or is there anyone there who agrees with me?
 

Deleted member 60096

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 20, 2019
1,295
I bounced off the game too. You're talking about TotS:FC? I was eagerly awaiting the town to blow up or the villagers to get smoked and have the plot actually start....until it didn't. Spent like 10 hours trying to get into it but it was boring as fuck
Yeah that game is an extreme example of the idea of not forcing yourself to play a game considering how slow the pacing is even for a JRPG, and the fans don't help you feel better about your chances, I've seen the claims of when the story starts range from end of Chapter 1 to literally the end of the game. At the end of the day the people who liked it, mostly liked it from the start even if it does get better later.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
I feel like most games are a product of their time, this one not being any different.
I feel like this is a strange crutch people use to discredit old games. I played the game over a decade after it's release.

It's not good for it's time. It's just good.
 
OP
OP
Leo

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,235
I know I shouldn't feel obligated to enjoy a game just because it's popular, it's just that I'm a huge JRPG fan, absolutely love Dragon Quest and really like most of the FF games, and still, can't seem to really enjoy this thing that is supposed to be the epitome of the genre during my favorite gaming era. It's weird.

Your #1 seems like a complaint you'd have of any 16-bit RPG of that era of the Square/Enix style. You very rarely got access to vehicle traversal until late in the game in any of these.
That just isn't true, the Dragon Quest games since 2 always had vehicles and they were integral to the game's progression. Games like 4 had several of them. The FF games had the airships, and I would say you can get them halfway through the game, generally.

Also DQ had the Zoom spell since very early, which is really the best kind of fast travel you could get in that time, and both DQ and FF had items or spells that could teleport you out of a dungeon, CT doesn't even have that, it's frustrating.
 

JohnF

Member
Jan 19, 2019
215
I feel like this is a strange crutch people use to discredit old games. I played the game over a decade after it's release.

It's not good for it's time. It's just good.
Yeah, I bought the DS version for my nephew a decade ago and he was able to appreciate how good it is. In my book, Chrono Trigger is the ultimate. Its soundtrack too, for that matter.
 

Stayfone

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
340
I feel like this is a strange crutch people use to discredit old games. I played the game over a decade after it's release.

It's not good for it's time. It's just good.
It's not about old games being discredit, its about viewing them in the time-period they're from. CT is a good game overall, but by today standards it doesn't live up to the original hype.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
It's not about old games being discredit, its about viewing them in the time-period they're from. CT is a good game overall, but by today standards it doesn't live up to the original hype.
What are all these today standard games I should play lol
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,226
I liked it for a while when the DS version came out (firet time playing it).

But like a lot of JRPGs I eventually got lost, didn't know where I was going next or why, dropped the game and never got back to it.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,208
Every high regarded game is kinda overrated.

No game is as good as its hardcore fans claim it to be. Including the ones i'm an hardcore fan.

That said, i think CT is a great game (not a top 10 genre favorite thing tho) but i agree with your points. Though the fast travel one is silly and unimportant in the context of the game imo.
 

Stayfone

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
340
What does this even mean, exactly? Because I think there's a lot of stuff from CT that modern JRPGs could stand to take a page from.
Mostly just quality of life improvements i would say, like pacing and respecting the player's time more. I agree that CT is a good game and JRPG should indeed take a page from it, but whats often the case with older games carrying a lot of hype, is that they seldom meet it when played years later.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
I see what you're saying OP but calling the battles in CT dull is just not something I've ever heard. Seems more like you just prefer turn based with no positioning, which is fine.
 

lightning16

Member
May 17, 2019
1,630
I know I shouldn't feel obligated to enjoy a game just because it's popular, it's just that I'm a huge JRPG fan, absolutely love Dragon Quest and really like most of the FF games, and still, can't seem to really enjoy this thing that is supposed to be the epitome of the genre during my favorite gaming era. It's weird.
I feel you. JRPG's are my favorite genre and it was a bit disappointing to play the game regularly hyped as the best in the genre and to walk away from it thinking it was a good-not-great game. It's fine, though. It's always been a genre that has a ton of different things any given game can excel in, so I don't think it's unusual to find acclaimed games in the genre that aren't your cup of tea.
 
OP
OP
Leo

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,235
I feel like this is a strange crutch people use to discredit old games. I played the game over a decade after it's release.

It's not good for it's time. It's just good.
I agree with you and tend to think good things are timeless. When I play a retro game I play it with the mindset that I am playing a retro game, and I try to judge it for what it did at the time. But my issues with the game aren't because it's dated. I love many RPGs from that time, CT just chooses not to have a lot of things games already had at the time.

Hence why I'm always comparing it to DQ and FF in the OP, I think it makes sense to expect the game to be the best of both these two but instead it chooses to streamline a lot and, for me, that strips away what was more engaging about them.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,085
I agree with you and tend to think good things are timeless. When I play a retro game I play it with the mindset that I am playing a retro game, and I try to judge it for what it did at the time. But my issues with the game aren't because it's dated. I love many RPGs from that time, CT just chooses not to have a lot of things games already had at the time.

Hence why I'm always comparing it to DQ and FF in the OP, I think it makes sense to expect the game to be the best of both these two but instead it chooses to streamline a lot and, for me, that strips away what was more engaging about them.
Play it like it’s a new game since you never played it before, not a retro game
theres nothing FF has that Chrono trigger doesn’t
 
Oct 31, 2017
13,358
I’ve tried getting into it 3 times and could only make it to around the halfway point.

JRPG’s are by far my favorite genre, and I don’t like Chrono Trigger. It’s boring.
 

Seven Force

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,899
Mostly just quality of life improvements i would say, like pacing and respecting the player's time more. I agree that CT is a good game and JRPG should indeed take a page from it, but whats often the case with older games carrying a lot of hype, is that they seldom meet it when played years later.
I don't disagree about some games having a reputation being built up and not holding up as well in actuality, but I think CT is one of those rare games where everything that was great about it then is still pretty great today. For example, I think CT still has some of the best pacing in the genre; There's little to no filler and things move at a brisk enough pace that there's never really a notable lull in the action. Good pacing is something the genre (Hell, the medium in general) still struggles with, so I think it's definitely an aspect of it that shines even brighter today.
 

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
CT is actually considered as one of the best paced JRPGs of its era.

I don't like CT very much, prefer Chrono Cross. Bar the time travel stuffs, everything just seems so simple in CT, or rather streamlined.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
you can beat the game right after the epoch gets wings, sure, but that doesn't mean you're at the very end. there's a ton of shit you can do after you get the ability to fly.