Discussion in 'EtcetEra' started by Trojita, Mar 13, 2018.
Less than half the states are gerrymandered, and that's declining. Same with voter suppression. Not to mention people voted for them.
Most of the bad shit in this country is the result of people either not voting at all, or voting for the GOP.
This whole line of thinking is generally foolish though, and Capitlalism vs Communism shouldn't be reduced to comparing body counts. Such an approach is both ahistorical and atheortical. It's basically nothing but hot air gotchas.
People are going to do horrible things sometimes. That reality isn't saying much about either as a dinge an sich.
The wheel doesn't work, we tried it, it failed, it caused damage. We should never use a wheel. We have legs.
"Communism is bad because it kills lots of people." Okay, let's test that hypothesis.
Have other kinds of system killed lots of people? Yes? Then it would seem that Marxian economics, on their own, are not the common factor in regimes that kill lots of people.
Like forget the bodycount of the USSR for a second, it also just wasn't what any earnest communist should actually want to emulate
EDIT: And this is relevant because of the degree to which groups like FullCommunism and even LateStageCapitalism employ USSR iconography etc
Lmao the complaining reached resetera?
Though the late stage capitalism mods are way too anal and shitty.
Communism is not compatible with any vestiges of Capital or the State in the same way that Capitalism wasn't compatible with the Feudal Manor.
Frankly I feel that painting capitalism, Communism, socialism, or some kind of combination as bad systems that can never work is simplifying things.
There's no bad ideas, there's bad execution. The question is what system benefits the most people in the best way.
There are elements from all of them that when used together can create a successful and functioning economy that provides people with what they need and want.
Neither the Soviet State nor the Chinese State ever broke from Capitalism.
You shouldn't let your frustration with what (very real) problems still exist in the world convince you that things are going backwards. They aren't.
I know that just sounds like "There was never a true communist country" but that's not the argument I'm making. If you analyzed the theory of communism (from the Communist Manifesto) and show how those ideas inherently lead to a violent regime, then that would be a good critique. But just pointing to historical examples without context means nothing. The USSR was not perfect example of communist society anymore than the U.S. is a perfect example of capitalist society. These are just labels for the ideas.
You're currently saying:
The USSR was violent.
The USSR is communism.
Communism is violent.
But that doesn't work because the USSR is not a perfect replacement for the word communism. Instead, you should frame your argument as:
Communism is composed of these ideas.
The USSR used these ideas.
These ideas lead to violence in these cases, and the reason for the violence were these ideas.
An argument against capitalism should proceed in the same way. What are the ideas inherent to capitalism, what do those ideas lead to? Otherwise you're just taking advantage of the fact that humans like using similar words for very different ideas.
The best argument for the French Revolution was that there existed a problem with the monarchy
The best argument for evidence-based medicine was that there existed a problem with alchemist guesswork
The best argument for traffic lights was that there existed a problem with unregulated intersections
The best argument for helium-based airships was that there existed a problem with the Hindenburg
Feudalism collapsed into Capitalism because the Feudal way of life was no longer able to cope with life's requirements. The Feudal state and its reactionary supporters lost the popular ability to govern, it lost the power to enforce its will, and the bourgeoisie replaced the Monarchy as the economic and political power.
As I tell my students, the fact that there isn't a single correct answer doesn't mean there aren't better, worse, and bad answers.
Personally, I don't think the whataboutism works out in Communism's favor anyway.
If there is any singular reason capitalism doesn't work in the modern age, it's the fact that it's entirely unsuitable to fight climate change, under capitalism we will never see any meaningful progress against it.
The state is the collective voice of the people and the state controls the means of production, ergo the people control the means of production in a techno/luxury communist state.
Also antibiotic-resistant super diseases. And nuclear proliferation.