I don’t get the praise for Fox Engine aka that one we only saw used on cross gen hell

[BAD]

Didn't Fox Engine only get used on sports games outside of MGS V if we're talking full scale games? Sure PT was hot but it's been visually surpassed and was what, 30FPS?

Why the f do so many people say it was amazing? Sure not for that barren as shit low res texture open world in MGS V that ran smooth on last gen as a baseline?

Seriously, the textures are rough on inspection in MGS V and the world is remarkably barren compared to even competition like Assassin's Creed or The Witcher 3. I'd be pissed if it weren't 60fps and looked that similar to the last gen versions.

So what gives? Did we see this Engine really put to some impressive test somewhere that I never noticed? Because MGS V cross gen world isn't it

 

[BLLYjoe25]

It really isn't that great. It's just because of Kojima using it that everyone acts like it's the best engine in existence. I really don't get the praise for that guy.

 

[ApeEscaper]

For a early gen 2015 game its pretty good especially for first Open world 1080p 60fps game on PS4

What other open world games are 1080p 60fps on consoles?

Infamous tried but its mostly around 35fps yet that is a game made exclusively for PS4 which the devs would be able to make nore use out of PS4 power. While Fox engine made for multiplatform support including last gen. Fox engine very optimised on last gen consoles, current and PC

 

[Dremorak]

None of the things you said are actually things that the engine handles. The fact that it was 30fps on last gen is because of the power of last gen.
Every platform has its limits OP.

 

[BAD]

For a early gen 2015 game its pretty good especially for first Open world 1080p 60fps game on PS4

What other open world games are 1080p 60fps on consoles?

Click to shrink...

You could make a lot of open world games 1080p 60fps if they were cross gen and as barren as MGS V

 

[Dogui]

1 - People praised the engine in it's demo.

2 - It was a long time ago

3 - It's owned by Konami that barely develops big games nowadays, which means Fox Engine will never have it's potential explored unless they offer it to other devs.

 

[BLLYjoe25]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

 

[BAD]

1 - People praised the engine in it's demo.

2 - It was a long time ago

3 - It's owned by Konami that barely develops big games nowadays, which means Fox Engine will never have it's potential explored unless they offer it to other devs.

Click to shrink...

That's part of my point. I don't think MGS V, cross gen hell hole, is at all a good illustration for claiming the engine is fantastic or excellent. We have no fuckin clue what the engine actually looks like on non-barren titles

 

[VanWinkle]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

What are you talking about? Who are you talking to?

All the "defense" so far in here has been very reasonable.

 

[garion333]

It really isn't that great. It's just because of Kojima using it that everyone acts like it's the best engine in existence. I really don't get the praise for that guy.

Click to shrink...

I realize this comes off as snark, but I think you're on spot for a large portion of the hype around the engine.

It's also because of the open world 1080p/60 fps, obviously, and that is praise worthy. But a lot of it is pure hype.

 

[oxfist]

I'd say the E3 2014 trailer of The Phantom Pain pretty much sums up what, to me, is one of its greatest strenghts: the photorrealism, lighting, shadows, character models, among other examples. Sure MGSV is not as dense as other more 'open-world' games, but The Witcher 3 or Assassin's Creed indeed have rough textures when looked at in detail, that's how game engines work.

They're not gonna have a fully modeled tree with realistic, independently animated, branches if the tree is just gonna stay in the background, that happens a lot with bushes and stuff like that. You can't seriously look at how the original Assassin's Creed ran on 360 or the whole thing about Unity's glitches and say those are better engines than the Fox Engine.

Of course it also comes down to game experience and personal taste, to some degree, but I'd say the technological achievements of the Fox Engine in terms of optimization, realistic lighting and shadows, particle animation, character model refinement, and so on, are pretty much objective. The game doesn't run amazingly on every platform, that's true, but also remember it runs on PS3, 360, PS4, Xbox One and PC. That's HUGE for a game not nearly as rough as the Dark Souls 3 engine, which had severe issues at launch and just broke the game.

 

[Sabretooth]

Don't know if this opinion counts for much, but I played MGSV:TPP on an AMD Radeon 5670 at high graphics (1366x768) and it was the smoothest good-looking game I played on that graphic card. The buttery smoothness was something else entirely, I had no performance hiccups or anything.

 

[Putyouinmyoven]

MGSV was a massive disappointment but you're nuts if you don't think that engine was good - that game plays buttery smooth from start to finish and looks fantastic despite being cross gen

 

[GregsVice]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

Is this the OPs alt? Lol calm down

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

I personally think it holds up quite well and looks nice visually.

There are certainly more impressive-looking games out there but at the start of the generation it certainly looked good and ran like a champ.

 

[cardboardboxer]

If its fun who cares. MGSV: Ground Zeroes was probably my favorite game experience this generation prior to the Switch.

 

[butman]

It really isn't that great. It's just because of Kojima using it that everyone acts like it's the best engine in existence. I really don't get the praise for that guy.

Click to shrink...

If MGS V had been made with Unreal Engine 4 there would be a feast for the eyes.

Fox Engine was a whim of Kojima.

 

[KrillinLikeAVillan]

It was certainly impressive for a ps3/360 game, and you can run it in 4k 60fps on a pretty modest pc, check the digital foundry videos about it, they know their shit and they where very impressed by it.

Seriously, the textures are rough on inspection in MGS V and the world is remarkably barren compared to even competition like Assassin's Creed or The Witcher 3. I'd be pissed if it weren't 60fps and looked that similar to the last gen versions.

Click to shrink...

I think you have a pretty poor understanding about how demanding a 60 fps open world game is.

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

Did you have a ready made response waiting and clicked too soon?

 

[Ocean]

Because MGS V, for all its misgivings, stuck to the best possible design paradigm:

"If my target platforms can't run this game at at least 60 fps, I need to change the game of my target platform". And did so with a good looking open world game with great feeling gameplay.

 

[Solidsnakejej]

It did a lot of things really well at the time, lighting and image quality specifically. You can also look at PT even though highly concentrated it is really impressive

 

[cowboyblobemoji]

my pc when ground zeroes/phantom pain came out was well well under minimum spec & i could still play at 720p 60fps on high settings. other games on unreal engine would choke to 20fps or take 4 actual minutes to load anything and crash half the time if i tried that even at low settings

that's why i thought it was good

 

[Orb]

I don't know much about its internal workings, but all I can say is that MGS V looked beautiful and ran perfectly smooth on my PC with absolutely rock-solid high frame rate, even at supersampled resolutions, which is more than can be said for most modern game engines. I feel like I have to fiddle with settings to get things where I want. But with MGS V I just turned everything on max and it was perfect.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who is definitely not a Kojima or MGS fanboy, by the way. MGS V was the first game in the series I played. I genuinely think the performance of the engine was very impressive on PC and that's really it.

 

[nrtn]

it runs

 

[Malek]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

chill dude, you're trying too hard

 

[Dreamboum]

60fps 1080p, it holds up well, the lighting is great, the concessions for making an open world weren't so keenly felt compared to other open worlds during the same period. It allowed a huge level of customization and a great playground. Kojima also managed to make it look much better than it actually is like he did for Metal Gear Solid 2 and 4 back in the days, for example : day/night cycle with the phantom cigar

 

[closer]

It ran incredibly well on my underpowered laptop, cant remember another engine that looked that way and was as smooth

 

[fiendcode]

It's weird the engine was built to support Vita yet no Vita games used it. You'd have thought Konami would at least downport Winning Eleven for Japan.

Likewise I'm curious if it'll get a Switch port or not for annual PES/WE releases and maybe a MGSV port.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

It really isn't that great. It's just because of Kojima using it that everyone acts like it's the best engine in existence. I really don't get the praise for that guy.

Click to shrink...

Is it really that mystifying given his profound and well-documented impact on this medium?

It's fine if his work does nothing for you but feigning confusion over his popularity strikes me as odd.

 

[BAD]

Ok but seriously do we really think other studios that cut their game to do what it takes to be 60fps couldn't have achieved a similar looking open world? You guys don't think other open worlds last gen couldn't have been made as barren and had as low textured environments and such like MGS V and still gotten to their target of 60fps on current gen?

 

[Gustaf]

i mean i could run MGSV decently on a computer without a dedicated graphics card, so i think it is really fucking great

 

[Deleted member 1105]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

You are the one who even brought up Kojima and now you are trying to start an argument that no one else is joining in on. Chill out.

 

[Blackthorn]

It's an engine that put gameplay and game feel first while still looking great. MGSV has an almost Nintendo level of polish.

Plenty of engines may boast better effects but a large part of what made MGSV play so brilliantly was the locked performance while still tracking a huge number of variables over impressive distances.

I do think it's a damn shame the Fox Engine has gone to waste.

 

[Kuro]

Ok but seriously do we really think other studios that cut their game to do what it takes to be 60fps couldn't have achieved a similar looking open world? You guys don't think other open worlds last gen couldn't have been made as barren and had as low textured environments and such like MGS V and still gotten to their target of 60fps on current gen?

Click to shrink...

What AAA open world games has come out since MGSV that runs at 60fps? I think the game still looks fantastic because of its photorealism and high frame rate compared to something like Dragon Age 3.

 

[BAD]

What AAA open world games has come out since MGSV that runs at 60fps? I think the game still looks fantastic because of its photorealism and high frame rate compared to something like Dragon Age 3.

Click to shrink...

See this is part of why the praise is silly. Nobody else targets 60fps because they don't like the gross visual compromises it takes to get there. But because of that we have no other open worlds to directly compare to on frame rate to see what looks good. So how the f do people get off saying Fox Engine is great? We never saw its potential tested on current gen only and against any other games targeting the same performance

 

[Orb]

Ok but seriously do we really think other studios that cut their game to do what it takes to be 60fps couldn't have achieved a similar looking open world? You guys don't think other open worlds last gen couldn't have been made as barren and had as low textured environments and such like MGS V and still gotten to their target of 60fps on current gen?

Click to shrink...

You keep harping on the "barren open world" part without acknowledging the parts of the game (and the entirety of Ground Zeroes) that aren't just open desert

There are plenty of parts of MGS V that are detailed and look great, and you're acting like everything in the game is some massive compromise to get it to run at 60fps above all else

This seems like a really strange axe to grind

And regardless, even if what you're saying was true and the game looked bad (it didn't), the engine still had way more overhead and stability in my experience than other games running at similar resolutions and visual fidelity

 

[Smash-It Stan]

1080 60 open world. That alone gets accolades from me when most AAA games are 30 fps hell holes

 

[Betty]

PT was on the Fox Engine right?

There's something about the lightning that made it all look really good.

 

[Powerofthecloud]

The rending on the game was all fucked up some sort of crosshaching rendering techinque applied to the distance. I complained about it then and no one seemed to mind.

 

[Poutine Runner 2049]

60fps is a big deal to some people and it looked pretty good to boot for a cross-gen engine.

I guess its a lot less impressive in 2018 when we've had some absolute powerhouses graphically since then.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

60fps is a big deal to some people and it looked pretty good to boot for a cross-gen engine.

I guess its a lot less impressive in 2018 when we've had some absolute powerhouses graphically since then.

Click to shrink...

oh definitely.

MGSV was a looker back then but it has been topped, and when it came out nobody could believe they pulled off Ground Zeroes on the PS3 no less.

 

[KrillinLikeAVillan]

See this is part of why the praise is silly. Nobody else targets 60fps because they don't like the gross visual compromises it takes to get there. But because of that we have no other open worlds to directly compare to on frame rate to see what looks good. So how the f do people get off saying Fox Engine is great? We never saw its potential tested on current gen only and against any other games targeting the same performance

Click to shrink...

I can't really agree about the barren part, and the the textures are fine for a open world game, the metal gear games have always made use of simple textures in order to have more detailed character models, try running it on pc at higher resolutions and you will see just how well it runs compared to other open world games.

You seem to have some kind of personal beef with the engine but it was universally lauded by the tech savvy for being a pretty fantastic piece of code, the reason it hasn't been used in anything is because konami doesn't really care much about videogames anymore.

 

[MetalGearZed]

It gave us a great looking locked 60fps open world game on console. I consider that significant.

 

[KillLaCam]

60fps open world on consoles was super impressive back then.

 

[KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd.]

Some of it's games looked good, I guess. I don't remember people being hyperbolic about it, or saying it was the best.

I mean, if you didn't like MSGV, that's reasonable. It still ran well, and looked nice to most of us. It's cool if you don't, and it's also cool if you're not a fan of the tech.

I don't think it's going to be a pressing issue in the next coming years, so I think you'll be pleased.

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

Pre-strawmaning? I've never seen this technology before.

 

[ActWan]

MGSV is pretty much a wonder. Cross-gen, looks amazing (aside of some textures), 60fps on current gen and open world.
The FOX engine showed a lot of versatility with MGSV, PT and PES.
Also, it was great on PC.

 

[jwhit28]

I thought Fox Engine was amazing. The PC version scaled well both ways which was surprising especially for a Japanese game at the time. It ran well on both generations, and they managed to get 60FPS out of the new consoles which seemed like something only remasters were gonna do. You can say 60fps doesn't matter to most people but there is a reason that people with no idea what FPS is praise Call of Duty for how smooth it feels and how responsive the controls are compared to 30fps shooters.

Don't forget P.T. That game looked great, even compared to other closed space games.

 

[The Archon]

oh boy here come the Kojima defenders. you're talking a load of non sense btw OP. how dare you criticise the gaming god Kojima!

Click to shrink...

Are you from the future? Or are you referring to an invisible group?

 

[oxfist]

I can't really agree about the barren part, and the the textures are fine for a open world game, the metal gear games have always made use of simple textures in order to have more detailed character models, try running it on pc at higher resolutions and you will see just how well it runs compared to other open world games.

You seem to have some kind of personal beef with the engine but it was universally lauded by the tech savvy for being a pretty fantastic piece of code, the reason it hasn't been used in anything is because konami doesn't really care much about videogames anymore.

Click to shrink...

You are correct, but also remember that Pro Evolution Soccer games have ran on the Fox Engine, modified or not, from 2014 onward, and those games, like them or not, do look fantastic. Awesome lighting and shadows and player models as detailed as they come.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

It is a very scalable engine that can be open world that was designed to hit 1080p 60fps back in 2015 on a stock PS4 for MGSV. Does that gurantee 60fps, no, but shows how it can be pushed if wanted. PT was another test on how it can be used for more photorealistic visuals if they want and then Silent Hills was going to be it's next full use. That sequence at the end reveal showing Norman Reedus walking down street is realtime and not a video.

With a good base engine like that and the covet that engines improve over time of course there was excitement on Kojima Productions future use of said engine.

 

[LightEntite]

Because the game looks amazing, ran amazing, with a decent ability to scale?

what even is this thread

the game might have been shit but the visuals and what the engine delivered on were absolutely amazing