There's probably at least one asshole or racist somewhere working on a game that I don't know of, so I don't see the value in this level of boycotting.
If I see a game I'm interested in, I play it.
If I see a game I'm interested in, I play it.
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"I don't buy X game because person Y is in/involved in the game"
- Thread starter Aztorian
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OP
OP
I didn't have anything to bring in to the discussion as the previous answers I got were clear. I understand that there would be huge doubts from anything coming from a company with that history. Personally I only knew about some of their previous actions on this. I just wondered about the reception of the respons from the company on the ad that was used since it kind of looked like something well thought instead of anything related to their previous actions. But that's just from my point of view.
Honestly....never heard of him.
More likely cause I dont follow threads about developers/publishers that much.
I just had to google him to find out.
I only come here for announcements and information for new games and games I play lol.
Edit: Oh I heard about the controversy surrounding the game but not familiar with this specific person.
Same thing with the THQ thing, I heard about what happened but dont really know the names of any one who was involved.
While in the end it counts as one of the factors I choose to buy a game ... it IS a big factor most of the time because there is a finite amount of time I have to play games. Lots of amazing games that are already released I didn't play. There are new amazing games released every other month. Not playing an amazing game because a dev was an asshole is not sad because ... i will not be able to play EVERY amazing game there is so SOMETHING will have to be out so why not something that gives money to a neonazi or transphobe?
And there is also the fact that chances are, if the asshole is in a high enough position, chances ares that there will be a time where I will be playing this amazing game and something shitty happens and it destroys my day (I am looking at you, Atlus) instead of making me happy with the amazing game.
And there is also the fact that chances are, if the asshole is in a high enough position, chances ares that there will be a time where I will be playing this amazing game and something shitty happens and it destroys my day (I am looking at you, Atlus) instead of making me happy with the amazing game.
A severe lack of humanity or basic understanding of how damaging those are are the only reasons that really explain why.
To actually answer the question; I view my actions as a consumer in the same way that I view my actions as a voter. I cannot be concerned with how many people around me don't care. When everything around me looks like shit, I feel good knowing that, at least I did the the small, easy thing that was in front of me that allowed me to express my will/values.
There is no experience out there that is worth compromising this. If someone from a company feels comfortable enough to express views that actively harm people like me and the company does nothing, that company has just made the decision that there is not enough risk involved in owning that view to require them to distance themselves from it. At that point all I can do is distance myself from this company.
I know most people will still buy and not care, just like I know most people will not vote.
"Most" people really don't stand to lose that much if terrible beliefs become the norm and stupid people who do won't notice until the wave comes crashing down on them. I don't know what to tell you. I am a Black voter in the US. This is all old hat to me.
There is no experience out there that is worth compromising this. If someone from a company feels comfortable enough to express views that actively harm people like me and the company does nothing, that company has just made the decision that there is not enough risk involved in owning that view to require them to distance themselves from it. At that point all I can do is distance myself from this company.
I know most people will still buy and not care, just like I know most people will not vote.
"Most" people really don't stand to lose that much if terrible beliefs become the norm and stupid people who do won't notice until the wave comes crashing down on them. I don't know what to tell you. I am a Black voter in the US. This is all old hat to me.
It's up to you if you want to support games with shitty people in it. But it's also none of your business if there are people who don't. There's absolutely no reason for you to be bothered by them.
Basically this.
Terrible people cause all-around terrible situations. Who knew?
I just bought Dragon Quest 11 despite the composer being a shit bag.
Sucks. But the game is a ton of fun and I give credit to the hundreds of people working on it.
To the OP. Just because somebody on ERA calls somebody out. That doesn't mean they are boycotting the game.
I call out From Software for their Crunch bullshit. But I mean...I enjoy their games.
If I ever find out that someone with a position high enough to benefit greatly from the success of a video game or movie was involved with shit like child rape or homophobic rhetoric like I don't know laughing about and cheering on the suicides of gay people, then yeah I won't support those things with my money. I worked hard for every dollar I got and I'll be damned if I'm going to knowingly use it to help some jerkoff like that make a buck off of me.
I don't give a shit, I separate the character from their voice actor/actress. I'm not missing out on a game and content because of one person's beliefs, words, etc. If devs are scummy or do something stupid, I get the game used. Like right now with Gamefreak.
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As someone who is knee-deep in tapes or shirts from questionable bands I have developed a quite high tolerance for shitty viewpoints. It's strange really, face to face with a bigot, a sexist, a racist or whatever, I'll have none of that. I have zero tolerance for any sort of racism or phobia. In media, however, I can look past a looooooooooooooottttt if I enjoy the end product. The same applies to games. I tend to look past problematic stances to appreciate the creative energy a person or a team has.
That's probably not a very good standpoint to have, I'll be the first to admit. So in reality, I haven't boycotted a game because of person X. The THQ nordic stuff brought me close to not purchasing Darksiders 3, however. I still bought it in the end though...
So no, this is not a "don't care..." post. I do care and yet I still end up buying the games I really want to play.
Thus, my judgement should be: Guilty by association ... I guess.
That's probably not a very good standpoint to have, I'll be the first to admit. So in reality, I haven't boycotted a game because of person X. The THQ nordic stuff brought me close to not purchasing Darksiders 3, however. I still bought it in the end though...
So no, this is not a "don't care..." post. I do care and yet I still end up buying the games I really want to play.
Thus, my judgement should be: Guilty by association ... I guess.
Pretty succinct explanation, I pretty much do the same thing. I forget what the term is but what you describe in the second paragraph is similar to the reaction people who are vegan or don't drink alcohol get when they abstain from eating animal products/drinking, it's somehow seen as a judgement on the other person's decision, when it could just be totally independent.
THQN there were three people involved, one being a VP in the company from what I can recall.
In a lot of these situations, Mordhau, THQN, we're not talking about one or two people. In Mordhau's case, it seems to be across their small team of 10 people. In THQN's case, it seems to be in leadership positions. Your position is largely apathetic, but I think it's important to use real world examples.
A bigot / racist / homophobe / whatever is involved in a game but it's also possible a LGBTQ+ / PoC / Minority might also be developing the same game.
If I don't support the former's game then at the same time I don't support the latter who actually needs it.
If I don't support the former's game then at the same time I don't support the latter who actually needs it.
The default position for any game shouldn't be "I support this." It's up to the creators, PR, demos, footage of the game to convince you. It shouldn't be the default state of being for any game. We don't owe these companies our money, they need to demonstrate why we should feel compelled to spend our money. As a consequence, one doesn't need to add a balancing scale for this stuff. Do you have a real world example of what you're describing here?
Indeed. I told a friend of mine I wasn't going to Chick Fil A anymore because of their record on LGBT issues. My friend couldn't understand why. "It won't make a difference." "Don't you know there are tons of other companies that you buy from that have similar issues." etc etc
It's almost like they have to rationalize their own apathy by coming up with these 'justifications'.
I like to describe these people as the Eleanor Shellstrop pre-Good Place.
It depends on the size of the team, what's been said or done and who did it.
Smaller studio with only a handful of people where everyone is an important member of the development team? Yeah, not gonna support their games if at least one of them is a known bigot.
Larger studio? Then it's a case by case basis. If the bigot is a key staffer with a big paycheck, then yeah they're not getting my money. If it's just some random nobody then it honestly doesn't matter to me. There's bound to be a few of those at every company, it's just that most of them tend to stay quiet.
Lastly, if the company's business model is anti-consumer I'll either boycott or buy used depending on how it affects the gameplay.
Smaller studio with only a handful of people where everyone is an important member of the development team? Yeah, not gonna support their games if at least one of them is a known bigot.
Larger studio? Then it's a case by case basis. If the bigot is a key staffer with a big paycheck, then yeah they're not getting my money. If it's just some random nobody then it honestly doesn't matter to me. There's bound to be a few of those at every company, it's just that most of them tend to stay quiet.
Lastly, if the company's business model is anti-consumer I'll either boycott or buy used depending on how it affects the gameplay.
It's rare for me to out and out boycott, but knowing something particularly bad about a game -- whether it's a shitty company or a shitty person -- is one of the bigger reasons I can be turned off of a game.
User banned (3 days): antagonising other members
Oh lawd, we still upset about that? lol
It's a shitty comparison. Not buying a game because of a high level company decision is different vs not buying a game because a single developer is a shithead
Do you think child trafficking has stopped?
Do you think THQN has made amends?
What are you referring to with the latter part of your statement?
Gee, OP. I personally don't feel that great about supporting someone that publicly talks about immigrants as "diluting the gene pool" or other racist shit, and feels proud of that...
Or supporting games with homophobic discourse as a reflection of a director's views on the lgbtq community...
I guess it's case by case, but even then i feel we've been normalizing so much the shitty behaviour that i don't want to support people that publicly shame others in this medium. Don't care if i'm missing something good because there are actually tons of good games out there.
Or supporting games with homophobic discourse as a reflection of a director's views on the lgbtq community...
I guess it's case by case, but even then i feel we've been normalizing so much the shitty behaviour that i don't want to support people that publicly shame others in this medium. Don't care if i'm missing something good because there are actually tons of good games out there.
Appreciate the warm sentiment to the CDPR post all.
I did respond on this point earlier, quoted it below:
OP
OP
Yes, I didn't have any further things to add as it was clear. I wasn't a 100% aware about the whole CDPR situation, only about the wont erase tweet.
Ah, alright. Just wondered if there was anything else causing confusion around people choosing not to buy some games.
OP
OP
I believe that would be Jonathan Aryan Jafari, or "JonTron", the YouTube personality of Hungarian-Persian explaining why he sympathizes with white nationalism against people like his own parents.
OP
OP
It happens at times that there are games where the studio, people involved, or something else taints the project that I'd otherwise be interested in and I can easily skip it. There are far too many games out there that I can play that skipping one game here and there isn't really causing me any distress since I can't keep up with the releases that I've already purchased. For me, THQ Nordic games are off limits along with Badland Publishing games and recently seeing that DMC5 thread means it'll get tossed on the ignore list for me. I'd love to play Darksiders Genesis, but the 8chan ties to the publisher after that bullshit stunt they pulled with no real apology/consequences to it means I can just focus on the other Diablo-likes coming for that fix.
Buy it used, sell it when you're done.
That's what I did with Kingdom Come, that's also what I'll do with Cyberpunk.
That's what I did with Kingdom Come, that's also what I'll do with Cyberpunk.
I'm not going to not play a game due to someone being in it or involved in it but if it's someone I really don't want to support I will wait for it to go on sale used.
Essentially this is my position. I don't really boycott. For one thing, voice actors, and in house studios are often paid upfront... so say a voice actor gets found to be a creep/racist what have you - depending on the severity, and breadth of their role I'll just say screw that guy and move on, playing the game as usual if it was a small part, or the offense was small. Basically there are too many other factors at play most of the time. The one artist they have employed? What if he didn't have a say in the choic to hire that voice actor, or what if the dev team is largely normal people but their director is outed as creep right when their game releases?
What if their jobs are on the line? Idk. I just feel really indifferent to most boycotts. That's not to say they're off the table entirely so to speak... I refuse to play that Kingdom Come game because the entire dev team was fully aware of their awful boss for quite some time throughout its development, at that point I feel they either stand with him or just don't care that they work for an awful person.
So it's really a very reserved response for me. For instance I fully love A Hat in Time, and think most people should give it a shot since it's largely a very inclusive game, with very wholesome people who work on it. (director excluded, I'm in the discord, and the devs are lovely people, we never hear from mekucube though) with that said I understand the reasons some might boycott it anyways.
If it's one or a couple of people on a large team, I don't care. Not saying I don't care about the things they've done to harm a community or the shitty things they might have said, but I'm not going to let those things steer me away from playing and enjoying something that I like. I'm not a fan of the CDPR Tweets that have gone out for example, but that is one/a couple of people out of a very large company and likely didn't have any association with the development itself. With their recent statement on some posters found in the game, I feel like the stance had in the actual game itself will be far different than making a tasteless/harmful joke on Twitter. Same goes for the THQ thing. There's so many people at THQ has under their umbrella that I don't feel like depriving myself or the thousands of people who make the games under that umbrella who likely don't share the same sentiments, thought process, emotions that drive someone to host an AMA on 8Chan. I can understand wanting to hate on an entire company due to a couple of people ruining the brand, hurting people, etc. but this is something that is common across many companies even outside of the gaming industry and it's total boners and I frankly as a consumer don't have enough time to investigate every company I do business with to see if someone has done a shitty thing with them at some point and what the punishment/ramifications were, nor do I need anything else to stress myself out over.
Personally I just make a decision based on whether I want to play the game or not. The lives of the developers don't factor in for me.
That said I agree that it doesn't make sense to argue against someone not buying a game, for any reason. I, along with everyone else, do not in fact buy the vast majority of games. For smart reasons, dumb reasons, or no reason at all. Not buying a game is the default position. You don't have to "justify" it. The game has to earn your purchase.
That said I agree that it doesn't make sense to argue against someone not buying a game, for any reason. I, along with everyone else, do not in fact buy the vast majority of games. For smart reasons, dumb reasons, or no reason at all. Not buying a game is the default position. You don't have to "justify" it. The game has to earn your purchase.
So you don't play any video games then? Or even buy any mass produced products?
Because I can guarantee you there is at least one "shithead" that has worked on every game and every product you own.
Put me in the the camp of "this puritan self righteousness is insane", because if you actually consistently apply the logic then you wouldn't buy a single mass produced product.
Honestly it seems kinda petty and vindictive to me, and as pointed out above completely illogical. If you don't buy products that shitty people have worked on you simply don't buy any products then, so why would it matter that you know who the "shitty" person is and what they've done specifically? So you can crow about how moral and righteous you are, and also name and shame?
Let me quote you this fantastic post, whichs explains why your argument might not work in most cases.
If it is something I wanna play I will play it. I honestly don't think about those things when buying a game.
what is this nonsense? do you feel that bad about what you're doing?
It can be a factor for whether I buy a game or not, but being honest? More often than not if I'm really interested in a game I'll get it anyway. I know it's awful of me and that I'm selfish for it, but I feel like there are already so few games that interest me to begin with. And even the games I do get and manage to enjoy, there's almost always gonna be something in it I think is awful and wish wasn't there -- and this applies to media outside of games, too. So like... If I want to be able to enjoy anything I kinda constantly have to do a certain amount of turning a blind eye already anyway.
But I super respect those who do choose to boycott games or studios, and I think exposing and putting pressure on those types of people and companies is really important.
But I super respect those who do choose to boycott games or studios, and I think exposing and putting pressure on those types of people and companies is really important.
It isn't a "fantastic post" it's a complete cop out.
So your moral indignation on "awful people" only extends to if you know specifically about it, but you're happy to turn a blind eye and support equally awful people so long as it isn't put under your nose?
If you're taking a moral stance of "I don't buy games which involve people with horrible opinions or actions" then it shouldn't matter whether it's specifically brought to your attention or not. Again, this is a cop out in order to be morally inconsistent.
Laws of averages dictate that any game developer of any size will have many, many people with "awful opinions and actions". Therefore if your moral line as to buying a game is to not support those people you cannot buy those games.
If you want to be morally inconsistent and pick and choose when you support these awful people and which ones to support go ahead, but be aware it isn't a consistent stance.
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