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I don't get Kylo Ren's character development
- Thread starter rrc1594
- Start date
- Status
This.
Kylo is great because he wanted to be Vader but he couldn't. Dude straight up kills his master and then asks Rey to please join him. He said please.
Forget Kylo Ren, I'm still waiting for the new movies to make some sense of the what the First Order exactly IS, and that the political situation of the area is after RotJ.
Ok, I figure that they were birthed as the remnants of the empire who were left over after the Empire fell in RotJ. I've got that much, but as of TFA, are they a government? Do they actually control any territory? There was some offhand mention of a Republic fleet in TFA when those planets got blown up (and the entire fleet for a galactic republic was stationed around a single planet?), but if the Republic is essentially what took power after RotJ and is the target of the First Order, then why are Leia, Poe, etc fighting for "the rebellion" still? What are they rebelling against? Shouldn't they have just been part of the Republic military apparatus?
I'm sure all of this was covered in other threads about the new movies, but I was kind of LTTP to them and don't have the time to browse hundreds of pages of threads. The original trilogy was nice and straightforward. The Empire was the big oppressive government, the rebels were rebelling against that government with limited resources. Two movies into this new trilogy, and I still don't know where the hell everybody stands in relation to each other. I was legitimately surprised when the opening crawl for The Last Jedi started by saying how victorious and powerful the First Order was, considering they got their asses kicked in TFA.
And don't even get me started on that stupid movie-long chase scene in space from TLJ...
Ok, I figure that they were birthed as the remnants of the empire who were left over after the Empire fell in RotJ. I've got that much, but as of TFA, are they a government? Do they actually control any territory? There was some offhand mention of a Republic fleet in TFA when those planets got blown up (and the entire fleet for a galactic republic was stationed around a single planet?), but if the Republic is essentially what took power after RotJ and is the target of the First Order, then why are Leia, Poe, etc fighting for "the rebellion" still? What are they rebelling against? Shouldn't they have just been part of the Republic military apparatus?
I'm sure all of this was covered in other threads about the new movies, but I was kind of LTTP to them and don't have the time to browse hundreds of pages of threads. The original trilogy was nice and straightforward. The Empire was the big oppressive government, the rebels were rebelling against that government with limited resources. Two movies into this new trilogy, and I still don't know where the hell everybody stands in relation to each other. I was legitimately surprised when the opening crawl for The Last Jedi started by saying how victorious and powerful the First Order was, considering they got their asses kicked in TFA.
And don't even get me started on that stupid movie-long chase scene in space from TLJ...
OP
OP
Reading the thread his action do fall into character. I just felt him killing Snoke was a way of him moving pass being Vader, he is not going to be someone's underling. He fully embracing the dark side, he has full control of the army, and he is crazy powerful. All these things made him a huge threat.....then last 30 minutes happen.
You are looking at in terms of light and dark while he's not. He wants to rule and wants Rey to rule with him.
Him killing Snoke isn't to embrace the Dark Side, it's to reject it. Kylo Ren doesn't believe in sides in TLJ.
Kylo Ren's motivation at this point is just "fuck Star Wars." Plucky rebels, big bad empires, Jedi, Sith, space stations, lightsabers - it's all bullshit. Burn it all down and start from scratch. Kill anyone who gets in your way.
He's never gonna become Vader or the Emperor. Him killing Snoke isn't an usurpation. It's taking that whole piece off the board.
The supplemental material explains that a number of Empire forces hid away in the Outer Rim while the New Republic bickered over having an army. People who wanted a strong military split and joined with the ex-Empire as they rebuilt in secret. By TLJ (dialogue from Rey), the FO don't have a government but they are a couple weeks away from controlling the galaxy through military force. The Republic proper (still obsessed with an image of peace and not investing in an army) didn't take it seriously so Leia split off and formed a defense group herself, which is the Resistance.
For me, I have no sense of care for any of these characters. 7 was decent, 8 was absolutely horrid.
George Lucas could create characters and worlds you cared about. Can't say the same about 7 & 8.
Kylo Ren is like a domestic terrorist who feels alienated from the light and he uses the whole 'kill the past, no sith/no jedi' motto, to claim to fight the establishment and just uses excuses to be a dick and lash out.
That's why I guess he fixes his mask in ROS. Despite trying to seduce Rey that's all he's about, insecurity and hate.
That's why I guess he fixes his mask in ROS. Despite trying to seduce Rey that's all he's about, insecurity and hate.
Episode IX needs to start with him as an unstoppable badass laying waste to all resistance and in complete control. Otherwise, he's a non-threat.
So he's pathetic, then? They even poked fun at him at the end of The Last Jedi and his first duty as Supreme Leader was an embarrassment.
My reading of Ben's character is that he's actually the opposite to Anakin. Whereas Anakin grew up with nothing, spent his life fighting against the darkness inside of him and ultimately lost that battle, Ben grew up with everything and is spending his life fighting against the light inside of him. Anakin wanted to be a good person but was pulled towards the dark his whole life, but Ben wants to be evil yet admitted he was being pulled towards the light.
I'm not even sure if Ben knows what he wants or why he wants it, but I do know he has no excuse for his behaviour. Anakin was understandable - he was fighting against his own nature, after all. He was a hero that saved billions, if not trillions, of lives as he tried desperately to be a good person, but the deck was stacked against him and he ultimately lost the battle for his soul. Ben, though? He might as well just be acting edgy because he thinks it's cool.
I don't think the Dark Side really cares, it poisons the mind either way. It's like a drug.
I get that he wants to destroy dogma in a sense, but he's kidding himself.
It's in the opening crawl. Leia and the Resistance are "resisting" the rise of the First Order
Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi,
has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC,
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE.
She is desperate to find her
brother Luke and gain his
help in restoring peace and
justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission
to Jakku, where an old ally
has discovered a clue to
Luke's whereabouts … .
Hux in his speech to First Order troopers before firing the weapon:
For sure. If they're smart they can play into that for IX - by creating a giant army to reshape the galaxy in his image he's really no different than any of the other villains in Star Wars history. That he can't escape the cycle.
Who knows if they'll go in that direction though.
I have a feeling he's going to kill Rose near the beginning so Finn has a revenge arc and Rey is like 'be the bigger man' you know the drill
I'm still pissed w how they handled Finn.
So much wasted potential 😤😤
I prefer him with the helmet on at all times. I just can't bring myself to give a shit about the character and yet I still prefer him to the rest of the cast. Though I'm amused by the Reylo ship TLJ spawned.
If your way of analysing this character is strictly on a scale of how scary or how badass they are, then you're doing it wrong. Kylo is super interesting if you look at him strictly as a character, not just a star wars villain.
The only potential Finn had was to be a red herring for JJ's mystery box marketing campaign. TLJ did about as much with his character as they could given the time frame of events.
Oh yes let's open up the final Star Wars movie of the trilogy by killing literally the only non-white woman with speaking lines in the whole bloody movie franchise to date. I'm sure that'll go down well.
seeing how the new republic treated her mother, his own parents being afraid of him, the heavy burden he has because of that mighty skywalker blood and snoke manipulating him from the shadows from a young age i wouldnt say he has no excuse for his behavior
I mean they could've done better than basically the same story bit from TFA.
Notes and TFA is enough of a foundation to rough out ideas on where the characters should go. And if they were truly "stuck" you just ask the man that wrote TFA for more details.
Rian Johnson just said, "I'll just do my own thing"
He not only threw out key points of interest setup in TFA, but he also threw out how the rules of the universe.
It would have been the right call if he actually had a story to tell instead of giving us a watered down version of Empire Strikes Back with a side of subverted expectations.
And how do you not have your main trio working together on screen? Their chemistry together was the best part of TFA
Hopefully JJ doesn't swinging heavily in the extreme opposite side of the spectrum with safe superficial fan service moments strung together for 3 hours and actually finds a balance between TFA and TLJ
We'll see, with Phasma looking very dead and Finn reunited with Rey, I have a bad feeling they're going to have to come up with a new personal crisis for Rey and Finn to deal with, even if that means fridging Rose.
I'm not a Rose hater btw, I enjoyed the character.
Ben's just spending his free time at Jedi School watching innocent cooking videos on Space YouTube, but the power of the
Exactly. She doesn't even have one line, just a few grunts, and I'm pretty sure Rose is the only non-Caucasian woman in all eight movies to have any lines at all. She's certainly the only one we could consider a major character.
I'll say it in every ST thread. I hate how Finn was treated. My wife and I left the TLJ with no interest in IX because I'm sure he'll be wasted again. The bait and switch of TFA still annoys me when I see its on TV. I mean IX has already been basically pieced together if spoilers are even remotely true.
But it wasn't. The sequel trilogy takes place over about two weeks. Finn starts as a new born baby with two friends and Uncle Han Solo. His only motivation throughout TFA was to get outta dodge and rescue/ date Rey. He could honestly give a fuck about the resistance. Finn gets knocked out at the end of TFA and wakes up at the start of TLJ with the same selfish motivations. He wants to protect/be with Rey and tries to abandoned the resistance at the first opportunity. At the end of TLJ he's a genuine hero who cares about a larger cause.
If JJ didn't end TFA on a cliffhanger all that extra character grow for Finn could have been handled with a time skip text crawl but that selfish part of his character had to be addressed unless they just kept him in a coma for the whole movie.
dont even waste your time, if someone thinks Finn has the same "story bit" in both movies, that person has made his mind already.
Finn's arc in TFA is all about him not wanting to have to do anything with the conflict, that's true. But him picking up the lightsaber and standing up for himself and Rey could have meant more than literally just that. They made a deliberate choice to basically restart Finn's character arc from the beginning for no reason. The threat was established, he was inside the FO and fled.
i dont understand how they "restarted" it when it he is the same at the end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ.
Him picking up the lightsaber could've been him progressing and refusing to flee anymore. Instead in the beginning of TLJ, it's like that never happened, and he's back to running away.
Edit: I also think that he didn't really needed to have to see the far reaching impact of the FO to have come to the realization that he needed to fight back. He was in the inside, he knew how they operated, that's why he fled. Fighting Kylo Ren even though he had no chance should've had a bigger impact on him.
But in order to get to the point where Finn could pick up the lightsaber he had to sell out the Resistance with a non-existance plan that got a lot of people killed. Dude wasn't malicious but he ends TFA as a myopic child.
Don't get me wrong a part of me will always prefer TFA trailer Finn but he has an arc in these films just not the one I wanted/hoped for.
Voiceovers don't really count because you can't see the person talking. Darth Vader was voiced by James Earl Jones but he isn't a black character, y'know?
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