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I don't get Kylo Ren's character development
- Thread starter rrc1594
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Well, you said "who he knows" tread him like shit ... not "from his perspective" thinks they treated him like shit. Big difference.
Instead I see vulnerability, like he looked generally unnerved having to deal with the Praotorian guards and it added a lot of suspense, and like Rey the audience may have fallen for his chance at humanity. Such a cool scene.
You like to bullshit for the sake of bullshitting.
Yes or no? Did he hate his parents?
My entire post was framed from his perspective. We know Luke is not a mass murdering uncle. We see two versions of that story. Perspective is implied and I provided enough context to make it clear whose I was using to describe his arc
This is a possibility , I think. All of these characters are coming to realization, some far sooner than he is so I think he gets his turn, yes. He lacks emotional intelligence so it would be cool to see him last to the party , just as it's wrapping up too :)
What are you talking about? It's a pretty big distinction. Knows/believes .. important difference. If your post was about how Kylo sees thiing that's fine .. but you wrote it in way to suggest it's an objective fact that Ben was raised by shitty parents. You got thin skin, dude
Nah, dude. I don't. You have poor reading comprehension and presented a straw man turning the conversation away from Kylo, the subject of my post, and making it about Leia and Han, who in TFA express regret and remorse over the way they raised him, a fact you are missing for the sake of "objectivity".
You don't murder your dad because you think he was a good parent. You are going on about objectivity when the entire conflict presented in this new trilogy all boils down to difference in perception . We know who perceived Han and Leia as shit parents . It was the guy who lunged his saber into his dad.
A curve ball was tossed at the audience concerning Kylo in TLJ
There was a chance of Kylo going Grey, but then just veers more evil with not much of an evolution.
Kylo is more and more just Anakin psycho
Half way he pauses and holds back because he felt his mother but later at the end he forgets that and just goes a-wall
There was a chance of Kylo going Grey, but then just veers more evil with not much of an evolution.
Kylo is more and more just Anakin psycho
Half way he pauses and holds back because he felt his mother but later at the end he forgets that and just goes a-wall
I just think not knowing what he looks like beneath the mask, knowing we would eventually see, is a powerful level of suspense. They blew the load pathway through the first movie.
That and blowing up 5 planets, a travesty so huge I don't know what enemy threat could even come close, I just have no weight in the events in these films.
They are going to turn this trilogy into an Avengers origin story. Gonna end up redeemed. Thanos is Palpy.
Yea, ya do. I was having a friendly conversation with you and you lost your shit because I didn't wet myself over your Kylo breakdown. No one set up a straw man. Like I said, thin ass skin
lol at you admitting you're purposely playing contrarian. We get it. You need people to wet themselves over you.
Arm chair psychiatry is easy.
Man this is just NOT true at all! Rey and Finn have a lot of character development in TFA
Rey + Finn in TFA were also the two characters with the best on-screen chemistry and believability
Wasn't being purposely contrarian. I said like one thing about what you said about Kylo and his parents. Then you proceeded to tell me that I just like to talk bullshit. Then you told me I have poor reading comprehension. Then you told me I was deliberately making straw man arguments. All because I didn't agree with the framing of what you said.
The thing that annoys me the most about Kylo in TLJ is that so much of his story (and others) is just straight up told to the audience instead of shown.
We're not shown why Luke feels the need to murder a teenager. We're just told that he had a bad dream and then tried to do it.
We're not shown how Snoke corrupted Kylo. We're just told "yeah Snoke corrupted him right under Luke's nose from across the galaxy! (but also snoke is irrelevant expectations subverted.")
We're not shown why Kylo has to murder all of his classmates. Just kinda told "well hes evil now hes gotta murder his friends yeah"
The more I've thought about it I'm actually OK with Luke becoming the failure that he is in TLJ. I just don't think the motivation was well developed. If we got a concrete demonstration of why Luke succumbed to the temptation to murder a child and drew his weapon then it would be different.
We're not shown why Luke feels the need to murder a teenager. We're just told that he had a bad dream and then tried to do it.
We're not shown how Snoke corrupted Kylo. We're just told "yeah Snoke corrupted him right under Luke's nose from across the galaxy! (but also snoke is irrelevant expectations subverted.")
We're not shown why Kylo has to murder all of his classmates. Just kinda told "well hes evil now hes gotta murder his friends yeah"
The more I've thought about it I'm actually OK with Luke becoming the failure that he is in TLJ. I just don't think the motivation was well developed. If we got a concrete demonstration of why Luke succumbed to the temptation to murder a child and drew his weapon then it would be different.
The temper tantrums were laughably bad.
I laughed out loud. I mean, was that the intent? To make people laugh at how childish the movie's star villain was?
I laughed out loud. I mean, was that the intent? To make people laugh at how childish the movie's star villain was?
I mean I laughed at it in a "lol sad manchild" way but that's one of the things I enjoy about Kylo. Not all villains are calm, collected masterminds. Some of them are spiteful babies. And it's pretty great to watch 'em get stunted on.
He's a decent-good character but a bad villain imo. Well him and the First Order. It's not going feel impactful when they finally get done in nor do they have any presence. He comes off as a Starscream whose biggest accomplishments are backstabbing and who helps set up an actual threat.
I mean, I dunno about you, but I'd be afraid if the most powerful living Force user were an abused child with anger issues.
That would be true if almost all of the tantrums weren't played for comedy.
I think the danger quotient is pretty apparent even when they're played for comedy.
Pretty much. Kylo Ren is one of the best characters of the new films but he never feels threatening. So far, Hux comes off as a better villain. Hux. The guy who had to sit through that terrible prank call.
Nope. At the end of the day, he just comes across like a brat. It may be possible to make a brat look dangerous, but Kylo Ren doesn't have that.
He's easily the most interesting character in the new ST but yeah... I have no clue what his trajectory is or where he'll end up or what his goal is... it's a loosely defined "he's trying to find himself," similar to Rey... but beyond that, no clue where they want to go besides Rey vs Kylo.
With no Snoke, and Palpatine coming back, Kylo might not even be the final villain either..
With no Snoke, and Palpatine coming back, Kylo might not even be the final villain either..
Joffrey is one of the greatest villians of all time and he was just a brat. (Not that is all Kylo is...) Considering he's now supreme leader I see him turning into the Caligula type.
Joffrey wasn't threatening either. He was constantly ineffectual and easily manipulated.
you have misinterpreted not only that scene where he kills snoke, but literally every single scene with a sith in the series. sith are not "badass". by their nature they are pathetic and fearful.
he didn't embrace the dark side, he just decided he didn't care about anything anymore.
the entire point of kylo ren is that he is not cool. he is not badass. he is desperately trying to be, but the evil heroes he looks up to are empty and hollow. they are not people to aspire to, they are just symbols of human weakness. they will never bring him the peace he wants. on some level he understands this, but he only uses it as an excuse to be more shitty.
he tries to instead reach out to rey, and manipulate her into thinking he's the only one who can understand her, because he doesn't know how to deal with the loneliness and emptiness he feels. he's trying to use her, because he's so laser focused on his own feelings he cant see the bigger picture.
as for what makes him dangerous; he is lashing out in all directions. nothing is more dangerous than aimless, unprincipled evil.
if you look more closely you will see what a blatantly obvious metaphor his character is.
he didn't embrace the dark side, he just decided he didn't care about anything anymore.
the entire point of kylo ren is that he is not cool. he is not badass. he is desperately trying to be, but the evil heroes he looks up to are empty and hollow. they are not people to aspire to, they are just symbols of human weakness. they will never bring him the peace he wants. on some level he understands this, but he only uses it as an excuse to be more shitty.
he tries to instead reach out to rey, and manipulate her into thinking he's the only one who can understand her, because he doesn't know how to deal with the loneliness and emptiness he feels. he's trying to use her, because he's so laser focused on his own feelings he cant see the bigger picture.
as for what makes him dangerous; he is lashing out in all directions. nothing is more dangerous than aimless, unprincipled evil.
if you look more closely you will see what a blatantly obvious metaphor his character is.
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Eh that's clearly Rey, but I understand your point. JJ's conclusion will be interesting in terms of the final arc of the character.
Snoke is more a classic big bad archetype. Voldermort crossed with Palpatine... but they shouldn't do that more traditional dynamic again. It seems to be a smart decision.
Vader stopped being an underling when he threw his master down a pit. They both killed their masters.
remains to be seen if Vader succeeded
Yup, he was a manchild in both flicks, that's why I'd refrain from saying he had any "development" as a character.
Sure. But he mostly felt that drive because he's a petulant man-child with way too much power on his own, already.
My dream is that Kylo breaks off from the First Order and creates a third power with the Knights of Ren. After TLJ I can't imagine him and Hux working together, there has to be a conflict between them.
Can we keep things civil? Disagreement is ok. I was agreeing with you anyway.
I really really want to see Hux try and get in Kylo's way. He's such a snake. Don't even care if he immediately gets nixed for it, it just feels so right after all the little passive aggressive shit between them. That part in TLJ where he sees Kylo passed out and immediately goes for his blaster cracked me up cause a little shit like Hux would totally do that. That could provide an interesting subplot in IX.
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