I don't get the concept of cultural appropriation

uncelestial · Dec 27, 2018

House_Of_Lightning said:
Nah man. There are no racists in California and Californians moving to Texas cities and kicking out poor people is just fake news.

What Texas needs is more TechBros.

/s

Oh yeah, Texas is doing great as it is. They love Trump, guns, banning evolution, deregulation, the oil industry, immigration scuffles, and just re-elected Ted Cruz. DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS. Educated people from California moving there, and there being an industry to work in other than petroleum will ruin it! It's perfect, absolutely perfect. I really enjoyed all the discussions about immigration I had there growing up as soon as people learned my background as a 1/4 Mexican person. After the bruises healed I really appreciated their point of view.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

You all happy about telling minorities that you're good with stealing from them? That all of the accolades you receive from white people is enough to ignore where they jacked the spices and recipes from?
Motherfuckers invaded other continents just to get salt. SALT. Boiling your spuds had never been so glorious until you had to jack it from other countries.
This ain't the silk road. You don't get to lie thru this. We're not moving breadfruit from one island to feed slaves anymore. The slaves own that. . Give respect to your learning of other cultures and stop undercutting them every chance you get. Assholes.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

Welp fuck.

I have to stop putting potatoes in my breadpie with lamb because that (unironically piece of shit) Columbus gave me privileges. My ancestors who never moved off this island will forever be tainted with shame for appropriating this tuber when the Genoans brought it on the island.

Gonna go seppuku now.

Ah shit, that's cultural appropriation, gotta sheep fuck myself to death.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
Welp fuck.

I have to stop putting potatoes in my breadpie with lamb because that (unironically piece of shit) Columbus gave me privileges. My ancestors who never moved off this island will forever be tainted with shame for appropriating this tuber when the Genoans brought it on the island.

Gonna go seppuku now.

Ah shit, that's cultural appropriation, gotta sheep fuck myself to death.

Congratulations on being supremely stupid.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

D i Z said:
Congratulations on being supremely stupid.

Congratulations on considering knowledge "property".

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
Congratulations on considering knowledge "property".

There was knowledge in that post? I just assumed you jumped into your alt to say dumb shit and get away with it.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

D i Z said:
There was knowledge in that post? I just assumed you jumped into your alt to say dumb shit and get away with it.

Oh, this ain't an alt. I'm just stating that recipes are not properties (well, "traditions") and there is no competition to see who prepares something better. And just because white people in America doesn't know better than remarketing others' traditions (because they for sure don't know shit about European ones) doesn't mean people should stop cooking whatever they want - and even become an expert of it.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
Oh, this ain't an alt. I'm just stating that recipes are not properties (well, "traditions") and there is no competition to see who prepares something better. And just because white people in America doesn't know better than remarketing others' traditions (because they for sure don't know shit about European ones) doesn't mean people should stop cooking whatever they want - and even become an expert of it.

Record scratch.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

D i Z said:
Record scratch.

I stand by my point: white people in America know shit about European cooking and traditions, while I definitely consider people from South America way more "european" and mediterranean than most pricks with a northern sounding name there. Europeans north of Mexico detached themselves from the humble origins of people in the countrysides of Europe under oppressive monarchies to invent their own origin story as piece of shit bourgeois people that freed themselves from having to pay taxes to piece of shit people ruling UK.

knightmarre · Dec 27, 2018

Cultural appropriation is a dumb term that people with too much free time use to claim shit. Doesn't matter what authentic ethnic restaurant you go to in the U.S. you will find latinos in the kitchen cooking your food.

Latinos mostly don't give a shit who borrows the culture for their own use.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
I stand by my point: white people in America know shit about European cooking and traditions, while I definitely consider people from South America way more "european" and mediterranean than most pricks with a northern sounding name there. Europeans north of Mexico detached themselves from the humble origins of people in the countrysides of Europe under oppressive monarchies to invent their own origin story as piece of shit bourgeois people that freed themselves from having to pay taxes to piece of shit people ruling UK.

Tell me more.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

knightmarre said:
Cultural appropriation is a dumb term that people with too much free time use to claim shit. Doesn't matter what authentic ethnic restaurant you go to in the U.S. you will find latinos in the kitchen cooking your food.

Latinos mostly don't give a shit who borrows the culture for their own use.

This is the lowkey racist shit you all get to do day to day. Get the fuck out of here with that.

Haze · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
What if you're actually an expert of it; what if not all the people "who traditionally make it" make it right. Or even what if people from other cultures actually don't know how to do it most of the times.

Because I sure can't cook a pizza for shit.

Yet I've eaten shitpizza by italians and great pizza by egyptians.

Then continue making it but don't disingenuously a master of something you are only partly a part of

KillLaCam · Dec 27, 2018

Yeah I don't understand it 80% of the time because I'm from a place that mixes a bunch of cultures. Like I get it when some people try to act like they created this new unique thing that's really just a part of another culture.

But most of the time I see people claiming cultural appropriation it seems like it's just some person who likes an aspect of another culture and does a with it. Especially when it involves food. Like I don't get how some white lady selling shitty tacos with lettuce and ground beef for other white people is cultural appropriation. Everyone who knows about tacos knows where it comes from and knows that isn't an authentic one.

Haze · Dec 27, 2018

Burrman said:
My point is that they wouldn't know the dance period, if it wasn't for the game. At least this way they are getting more exposure then if it wasn't in the game.

My point is it doesn't matter if you know the dance or not if you don't know where it came from

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

D i Z said:
Tell me more.

What do you want to know?

How poor people in Europe suffered under bullshit liberal monarchies while americans thought they were better by betraying the values of the french revolution?

Or how americans constantly repressed any sort of popular movements against the dictatorship of the higher classes?

And how people in Europe actually suffered for real - there is a huge gap between dominating regions and poorer countryside regions - often because monarchies were too busy with wasting money in crusades and shitshows?

Clusterdreams said:
Then continue making it but don't disingenuously a master of something you are only partly a part of

Cooking is a set of skills that can be taught. Yes, of course there is meaning, and history, but meaning and history doesn't directly have consequences on how the food tastes.

House_Of_Lightning · Dec 27, 2018

i-Lo said:
As a non white Canadian the concept of cultural appropriation generating outrage never made sense to me especially if it had nothing to do with offending both the culture or the folks it originally belongs to.

I mean, who is the ultimate authority on this subject when it is not meant with ill intent on a person to person basis? If my friend wanted to dress up in say, some traditional south asian attire (my parents are indian) to fit in during some cultural celebration, I'd be happy that they took the time and made the effort. But prior to it, would that person need to seek permission from internet gatekeepers of culture?

I understand that things are far from equitable when it comes to opportunities for different races on an institutional level. But on a street level or an individual level, this concept can be mind bending when the west (well, at least Trump nation) claims to "melting pot" of different cultures which runs antithetical to the idea of cultural appropriation that is not meant to be bigoted.

How do you feel about the Trudeau thing with him wearing the traditional garb? I've met a few Indian Canadians who weren't necessarily offended by it but thought it was pointless showboating.

knightmarre · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
What do you want to know?

How poor people in Europe suffered under bullshit liberal monarchies while americans thought they were better by betraying the values of the french revolution?

Or how americans constantly repressed any sort of popular movements against the dictatorship of the higher classes?

And how people in Europe actually suffered for real - there is a huge gap between dominating regions and poorer countryside regions - often because monarchies were too busy with wasting money in crusades and shitshows?

Ignore him, this dude is a known troll. He is not here to discuss anything and will most likely respond with some passive agressive one liner.

Bramblebutt · Dec 27, 2018

Cultural appropriation is taking an artifact of a culture and modifying, recontextualizing, or trivializing it against the wishes of the culture's creators and participants, often for profit. It's an issue ultimately about a sense of collective ownership of tradition and history. There are really obvious examples of this in the form of imperialist nations straight up stealing artifacts from subjugated populations for display in museums, but the more pernicious and controversial aspects of this issue have to do with intellectual property rights more than physical property rights. While many specific practices and symbols of the dominant culture here in the US are usually legally protected from unauthorized bastardization and profiteering, foreign or marginal cultures often don't get any legal protection, an issue that's hard to solve because of how diffuse and difficult to legally define the concept of ownership of a sacred practice might be in IP law, in addition to how difficult it may be for that culture to even seek representation in the system.

Basically the issue can be summed up in that Disney is allowed to seek restitution for profits made off of the image of a cartoon mouse, or disallow people to use that image without their consent in an effort to "protect the brand", but the Cherokee nation has no recourse if people make disrespectful
costumes out of their traditional garb for fun and profit.

House_Of_Lightning · Dec 27, 2018

uncelestial said:
Mom and Pop

Boy you really despise just normal every day people don't you?

D i Z said:
Lemme stop you right there. "As a non white Canadian". What are you? It kind of matters for context.

You didn't read their post at all, did you? I know you didn't, cause if you had, you'd have read the part where he answered the question you asked him.

House_Of_Lightning · Dec 27, 2018

Bramblebutt said:
Basically the issue can be summed up in that that Disney is allowed to seek restitution for profits made off of the image of a cartoon mouse, or disallow people to use that image without their consent in an effort to "protect the brand", but the Cherokee nation have no recourse if people make disrespectful costumes our of their traditional garb for fun and profit.

This is a pretty good take. Thanks!

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
What do you want to know?

How poor people in Europe suffered under bullshit liberal monarchies while americans thought they were better by betraying the values of the french revolution?

Or how americans constantly repressed any sort of popular movements against the dictatorship of the higher classes?

And how people in Europe actually suffered for real - there is a huge gap between dominating regions and poorer countryside regions - often because monarchies were too busy with wasting money in crusades and shitshows?

Cooking is a set of skills that can be taught. Yes, of course there is meaning, and history, but meaning and history doesn't directly have consequences on how the food tastes.

How far back do you want to go with the oppression Olympics? You dropped your anti_American wallet a few feet back, btw.

D i Z · Dec 27, 2018

House_Of_Lightning said:
Boy you really despise just normal every day people don't you?

You didn't read their post at all, did you? I know you didn't, cause if you had, you'd have read the part where he answered the question you asked him.

Stay out of my lane. Say something of value for once or step off.

Deleted member 20603 · Dec 27, 2018

Bramblebutt said:
Basically the issue can be summed up in that that Disney is allowed to seek restitution for profits made off of the image of a cartoon mouse, or disallow people to use that image without their consent in an effort to "protect the brand", but the Cherokee nation have no recourse if people make disrespectful
costumes our of their traditional garb for fun and profit.

You've brilliantly distilled it down in a way anyone could understand. Quoting for emphasis

Felt · Dec 27, 2018

Yeah there's a distinct difference between cultural appropriation and someone appreciating another culture and the difference is obvious.

It's easily seen in the definition of the word, I.e taking ownership of something without the owners permission.

A white dude cooking up some Indian food is appreciation, that same dude putting some indian-fusion dishes in his American restaurant is still appreciation, that same dude opening up an Indian food restaurant is appropriation.

Like as soon as you think of a way to make money off something another culture made, done.

WrenchNinja · Dec 27, 2018

All cultures partake in appropriation. The issue is when a culture that's in power takes ownership of something from one that isn't, and the latter culture is also ridiculed for doing said things and isn't given any respect.

Burrman · Dec 27, 2018

DigitalOp said:
You're missing the entire point....

Great... They know the dance.

They don't know where it comes from, they don't know where it originates

Now its a Fortnite dance called Hype.

It's entirely white washed for white audiences or anyone who is anal about participating in Black HipHop Culture.

That isn't enamoring, it isn't respectful

It's just a continuation of companies and media taking black culture shit and repackaging it for the masses to consume while stripping our ownership of it.

This thread is a shitshow. Like it's bad enough people don't give a fuck I the first place but now we have cats totally missing the point and talking shit like this isn't a real thing that affects multiple cultures and minority groups.

It's fucking annoying

My point is that more ppl know the origins of the dances because of fortnite. Some think it's a fortnite dance but I'm willing to bet many ppl found out about these artists because of this game that they otherwise wouldn't know anyways

Deleted member 7130 · Dec 27, 2018

There are more factors at play than just whether or not you appear like a racist caricature by dressing in or expressing another culture's aesthetic. In America, it's often used as another means for white people to either enrich themselves and/or climb social hierarchies. All the while, the people who cultivated and grew up in those cultures are shat on for them.

NTGYK · Dec 27, 2018

I'm an Indian dude getting married to an Indian girl and all my white/middle eastern/Asian friends are down to wear kurtas and stuff at my wedding.

Makes my mom ecstatic haha

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

Felt said:
Yeah there's a distinct difference between cultural appropriation and someone appreciating another culture and the difference is obvious.

It's easily seen in the definition of the word, I.e taking ownership of something without the owners permission.

A white dude cooking up some Indian food is appreciation, that same dude putting some indian-fusion dishes in his American restaurant is still appreciation, that same dude opening up an Indian food restaurant is appropriation.

Like as soon as you think of a way to make money off something another culture made, done.

I'm unsure about that. An indian food restaurant that is owned by a white dude, but employing actual people from India, would be cultural appropriation?

What about all the asians and mediterraneans not from Italy opening up pizza places and calling them pizzerie? Is it cultural appropriation?

From my point of view, it is cultural appropriation when the cultural aspects are actually bastardized and removed from their original cultures, turning them into farce or not, to the point of denying they were part of their source. As long as the traditions and histories are respected, taught, known and clearly stated, everyone should be able to learn and do anything.

Of course, this is way, waaaaay worse when a dominant culture does it on a culture that is being straight up dominated.

JCG · Dec 27, 2018

Disney's overprotective attitude towards their early cartoons by unreasonably extending copyrights through lobbying is also another problem, not something that should be taken as a model for how any cultural elements should be handled.

Wein Cruz · Dec 27, 2018

Alimnassor said:
The White Chef should not be hawking Chinese cuisine period. I believe strongly that regional food should never used by someone not from said culture. You can eat it but, to make it is theft. Food can never be authentic unless it's made by it's own culture.

This is so dumb that you have to be joking

DOT_mjo · Dec 27, 2018

How many of y'all in here who are saying cultural appropriation is a dumb term are white?

Also, Fortnite is a perfect example of this. If you can't see why what Fortnite is doing is wrong, then you just don't want to acknowledge that cultural appropriation is an evil thing.

Felt · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
I'm unsure about that. An indian food restaurant that is owned by a white dude, but employing actual people from India, would be cultural appropriation?

What about all the asians and mediterraneans not from Italy opening up pizza places and calling them pizzerie? Is it cultural appropriation?

From my point of view, it is cultural appropriation when the cultural aspects are actually bastardized and removed from their original cultures, turning them into farce or not, to the point of denying they were part of their source. As long as the traditions and histories are respected, taught, known and clearly stated, everyone should be able to learn and do anything.

Of course, this is way, waaaaay worse when a dominant culture does it on a culture that is being straight up dominated.

It's still cultural appropriation. The guy is profiting off of another culture's cuisine. He didn't create or develop the menu - it was obviously stolen in the first place unless the dude was raised in India.

Those are examples of it. They aren't the most awful racist examples but they are still appropriation. They said "hey we could make good money if we open an Italian pizza shop in this location". Why didn't they just open a restaurant from their own background? Prolly because they figured they'd make more money off another culture's cuisine. If they create their own fusion dishes between Italian and their background then they didn't steal.

People can learn about and respect the history of other cultures yes but if they use that knowledge to make money they are literally appropriating it.

Edit; plus pizza has already been bastardized it's an old topic, try this: Hawaiian fam opens poke restaurant. Gets popular. Bunch of rich non-hawaiian nvestors open dozens of poke shops. Is that not appropriation?

Bramblebutt · Dec 27, 2018

JCG said:
Disney's overprotective attitude towards their early cartoons by unreasonably extending copyrights through lobbying is also another problem, not something that should be taken as a model for how any cultural elements should be handled.

I agree, but my point isn't that every cultural group should behave like Disney, just that there are legal privileges afforded to the owners of artifacts of the dominant culture that are not afforded at all to marginal cultures. The laws of my country protect the integrity and ownership of the idea of Mickey Mouse much, much more than it protects the integrity and ownership of the sacred traditions of a marginalized people.

Edit: I also disagree with the notion that any person from any group can just claim any usage of the product of their culture is appropriation. There needs to be a clear majority of people from that group who object to the artifact's appropriation for any claim to be legitimate. Otherwise it's impossible to really establish that the culture as a group actually objects to the artifact's appropriation and is not just willing to share it freely.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 27, 2018

Felt said:
It's still cultural appropriation. The guy is profiting off of another culture's cuisine. He didn't create or develop the menu - it was obviously stolen in the first place unless the dude was raised in India.

Those are examples of it. They aren't the most awful racist examples but they are still appropriation. They said "hey we could make good money if we open an Italian pizza shop in this location". Why didn't they just open a restaurant from their own background? Prolly because they figured they'd make more money off another culture's cuisine. If they create their own fusion dishes between Italian and their background then they didn't steal.

People can learn about and respect the history of other cultures yes but if they use that knowledge to make money they are literally appropriating it.

But then, where does it start to be "culture appropriation". Is it still culture appropriation if someone from the north of Italy makes a dish from the south, which are two vastly different regions with different recipes, cooking styles and tastes? What if someone is born, grew up in Italy, not italian on paper but talks a perfect neapolitan accent and eats neapolitan all along, and wants to become a master pizzaiolo: is that cultural appropriation? What about pizza with ananas, isn't it called "hawaian style"? Are they appropriating themselves of pizza? What about schools in Naples, teaching foreign students about pizza?

I also made an example in this thread of how a japanese restaurant led by a true japanese chef that respects all traditions is training not japanese people, often minorities here, to make sushi and other traditional japanese dishes. Is that bad? They should never, ever, open a japanese restaurant?

Felt · Dec 27, 2018

themuzzotheory said:
But then, where does it start to be "culture appropriation". Is it still culture appropriation if someone from the north of Italy makes a dish from the south, which are two vastly different regions with different recipes, cooking styles and tastes? What if someone is born, grew up in Italy, not italian on paper but talks a perfect neapolitan accent and eats neapolitan all along, and wants to become a master pizzaiolo: is that cultural appropriation? What about pizza with ananas, isn't it called "hawaian style"? Are they appropriating themselves of pizza? What about schools in Naples, teaching foreign students about pizza?

I also made an example in this thread of how a japanese restaurant led by a true japanese chef that respects all traditions is training not japanese people, often minorities here, to make sushi and other traditional japanese dishes. Is that bad? They should never, ever, open a japanese restaurant?

Starting from the end, I think it's fine if they create their own menu like I said previously in a fusion style. But if they open a traditional sushi restaurant and name it after a Japanese city it feels weird to me.

You gotta make your own shit. If cultures had copywrite law then there'd be no discussion.

Your early examples are not appropriation.

A non-Italian going to Naples to study pizza and opens a pizza shop in China is appropriation because they used another culture to make a profit but it's not the worst thing in the world. Just like it doesn't matter when people in Asia open up US BBQ restaurants.

You are thinking of some pretty light examples. Try some where investors notice a minority cuisine rising in popularity and appropriate it rapidly, driving local minority businesses out of business.

anamika · Dec 27, 2018

Felt said:
It's still cultural appropriation. The guy is profiting off of another culture's cuisine. He didn't create or develop the menu - it was obviously stolen in the first place unless the dude was raised in India.

This is silly. Indian dishes are not copyrighted and are very tasty and anyone is welcome to open a restaurant for Indian cuisine. As long as folks know that this is Indian food, what is the problem here?

In my views cultural appropriation is taking something from another culture, claiming it as your own and denying the original culture any rights to this aspect of their culture - this is actually damaging and oppressive and is what is connected to imperialism and colonialism and what is actually wrong. Not a white guy starting an indian restaurant that harms no one. Unless his cooking is shit.

For example, Indians have been using Turmeric in their cooking for around 5000 years. They have found that this has health benefits and have included it in their traditional medicine. Now research has proved that the Curcumin in Turmeric does indeed have benefits, including for breaking up plaque formation in Alzheimers. The Americans now want to patent Curcumin as a therapeutic chemical! - This is what I would call cultural appropriation - get exclusive rights to traditional medicines long used by other cultures and then deny those cultures the right to work with this stuff.

I have often seen Indian mythical characters, stories and Hindu Gods depicted on science fiction TV series in the West as strange aliens and exotic beings. Stargate SG - 1 had some of these Gods as Goauld - evil alien creatures. The 2004 Battlestar Galactica had Indian chants/prayers used for the colonists and the opening theme. How many Westerners recognized that? Or gave credit to Bear Mcreary instead for coming up with this strange, alien song? If there is an exotic/strange/alien land in Scifi, Indian stuff is often used.

Black Panther is often praised for the fictional Wakanda. But how many folks know that that the Jabari tribe's God, hailed by M'Baku is an actual Hindu God Hanuman seen all around India? So Americans borrow the name of an actual religion's God to build up a fictional, non-Hindu culture for making a Hollywood blockbuster for profit. Did anyone know that Hanuman is an actual thing in Hindu cullture? Or did they think that the Black Panther creaters came up with it? Did the creators acknowledge where they got this from? If not, then this is cultural appropriation.

In essence, don't take from other cultures and pretend that it's your own. Don't take from other cultures and vilify it and use it make other cultures look bad. Don't take from other cultures and prevent those other cultures from using it. - All this would constitute cultural appropriation.

Other than that, there is nothing at all wrong with using or even profiting off elements of other cultures. Go for it, I say. Make the world more inclusive.

iswasdoes · Dec 27, 2018

I think it's like gatekeeping, but when the thing is something white people are awkward about.

But I'm old and very new to these words

Hey Please · Dec 27, 2018

TheOnionPrince said:
I think it depends on the particular signifier of culture and the intent behind it.

If you are aware that a certain item is sacred to a culture and should only be worn by certain people in certain situations, probably don't wear it because it's disrespectful to the culture. If you are trying to do right by the culture, and aren't leaning into stereotypes, especially negatives ones, of a culture that is not your own, then I imagine that most people will be fine with that. But, you know, I'm a white dude so that's just my perspective.

That sounds reasonable enough. However, what I am getting at is that for things that are do not possess any hint of tried and tested overt or covert tones of bigotry, there is no absolute. I mean, it is not honestly possible for people to be always in the know about where each individual draws his/her/their line when it comes this stuff.

House_Of_Lightning said:
How do you feel about the Trudeau thing with him wearing the traditional garb? I've met a few Indian Canadians who weren't necessarily offended by it but thought it was pointless showboating.

Yes, perhaps it was showboating but like you said, there is no universal consensus one way or another. The prime minister did, presumably, get directions from a variety of people who work for him/with him in the PR department, as to how best to make a positive impression. To me, it shows they at least went out of their way to try something they thought would show respect. Then again, I pretty much do not care about making a fuss about cultural appropriation that does not intend to mock, vilify, take or get undue advantage of or profit from a culture or its people when adopting said attire or style.

People are free to look up my post history to see which end of political spectrum I swing because yet again, I will state that in an ideal multi-ethnic, multi-racial world where people keep on slowly but surely step away from cultural traditions and beliefs that are inherently exclusive in nature with successive generation or simply with time, cultural appropriation would not exist as that is what a true melting pot is, a singular but broad cultural unification.

Heshinsi · Dec 27, 2018

None of what you posted is actually cultural appropriation. Many people have no clue what is and isn't cultural appropriation. Wearing a thawb isn't cultural appropriation lol. Have you been to a mosque? Have you seen the multitudes of non Arab men wearing thawbs? So why would it suddenly be cultural appropriation when a white man wears it?

What is more closer to cultural appropriation is the turning of the keffiyeh into a fashion scarf. I remember when I lived in the states as a kid, watching a political talking head call the keffiyeh a picnic cloth in his rant against Arabs and Muslims post 9/11. Iraq war happens and suddenly it's a cool thing for westerners to wear as scarves. When we wear it, tablecloth, towel head, camel hearder, etc. When they wear it, fashion. Fuck that.

thermopyle · Dec 27, 2018

Of course some white people on here dgaf as usual or completely dismiss it cause of examples where the internet outrage machine misfires. The world's your oyster and us lesser fucks are just blessed when white people take notice of the "positive" aspects of our primitive cultures. We're really just being uplifted!

duckroll · Dec 27, 2018

Alimnassor said:
The White Chef should not be hawking Chinese cuisine period. I believe strongly that regional food should never used by someone not from said culture. You can eat it but, to make it is theft. Food can never be authentic unless it's made by it's own culture.

Culture and race can be very different things. Some cultures are multi-racial and some races are multi-cultural. Asia says hi. Does that thought blow your mind?

McScroggz · Dec 27, 2018

I think most people have a very shallow idea of what constitutes cultural appropriation is, which makes this a problem to begin with. Beyond that, people have become, in my opinion, overly sensitive about the more shallow idea of cultural appropriation to the point where for some it's a form of neo-cultural segregation and I find that not super healthy.

It is both a good thing to appreciate the different distinct cultures that have shaped our world while accepting the idea that sharing cultures and creating new ones is good too.

Now using superficial elements of another culture for profit or social gains, or profiting off of the works of others without proper acknowledgement and all of that is wrong. That's the very simple idea of the type of cultural appropriation that is wrong.

Granted this is a nuanced subject and as I'm watching basketball I can't properly express the nuance concisely. Hopefully I'm reasonably cogent though.

Painguy · Dec 27, 2018

As a brown middle eastern dude I take it as American/European people trying to make up cuz they subconsciously/consciously feel guilty about bombing my home. Honestly 99% of the shit people bitch about on the behalf of middle eastern people are meaningless/stupid IMO. I could care less if you wore a turban or a Hijab for Halloween. I could care less if a white dude opens a middle eastern restaurant. Instead of whining about that stuff I wish people would focus on the actual issues that we have to deal with like the clusterfuck in syria and make noise about that, people losing their homes in Iran cuz of the sanctions, etc, ....but that takes actual effort and energy from those pretending to care. Instead we are left with people moaning about how bad and horrible Apu is, and how I have had to struggle because of him and his cartoony hindu accent. It's depressing and annoying seeing people telling me whats in the best interest of my people when they clearly have no idea(especially when its obvious they haven't even been to the middle east). Someone appropriating my culture doesn't really matter to me. I'm worried about there being middle easterns left alive to lay claim to their culture. As OP said, if anything its cool to see someone appreciating it enough to want to copy it or do something with it. /r

HardTimesFamilyPride · Dec 27, 2018

I like the way a friend of mine put it: "if you want to take part in our culture, you have to acknowledge our pain."

Heshinsi said:
What is more closer to cultural appropriation is the turning of the keffiyeh into a fashion scarf. I remember when I lived in the states as a kid, watching a political talking head call the keffiyeh a picnic cloth in his rant against Arabs and Muslims post 9/11. Iraq war happens and suddenly it's a cool thing for westerners to wear as scarves. When we wear it, tablecloth, towel head, camel hearder, etc. When they wear it, fashion. Fuck that.

I actually wanted to stop by MuslimEra and ask how people there feel about westerners wearing the keffiyeh. I have a couple that I wear (usually tied around my head in what seems to be the traditional style) but if there's a reason it would be offensive to y'all I'd prefer to know haha

DerpHause · Dec 27, 2018

D i Z said:
How far back do you want to go with the oppression Olympics? You dropped your anti_American wallet a few feet back, btw.

TIL that pointing out the current sufferings of parts of white America is near exclusively a construct of their own making = oppression Olympics.

Heshinsi · Dec 27, 2018

Yerba_Sutra said:
I like the way a friend of mine put it: "if you want to take part in our culture, you have to acknowledge our pain."

I actually wanted to stop by MulsimEra and ask how people there feel about westerners wearing the keffiyeh. I have a couple that I wear (usually tied around my head in what seems to be the traditional style) but if there's a reason it would be offensive to y'all I'd prefer to know haha

Nah don't stop wearing it. My annoyance was more aimed to the moment it became fashionable to wear it while they were still actively shitting on the culture that it came from. No one is going to bat an eye nor care when it comes to individuals wearing it. But when I start seeing mannequins in store fronts decked out in them, and models strutting runways with them, I was like, "motherfuckers, what happened to it being a table cloth we were made fun of for?!"

Me then: "So now it's cool?!"

Benita · Dec 27, 2018

Alimnassor said:
The White Chef should not be hawking Chinese cuisine period. I believe strongly that regional food should never used by someone not from said culture. You can eat it but, to make it is theft. Food can never be authentic unless it's made by it's own culture

This is complete bullshit.

The Adder · Dec 27, 2018

Someone from one culture profiting off of the works or culture of people of a different culture in a way people from that culture have been denied, claiming the works or culture of another culture as their own original creation without crediting its source, or using another culture as a prop.

For example:

White folks opening up a soul food restaurant inspired by black cuisine: Not necessarily cultural appropriation (rides on the execution)

White folks gentrifying a black neighborhood, raising the rent until the previous residents and businesses can no longer stay, then opening up a soul food restaurant in that neighborhood: Definitely cultural appropriation

A white person wearing cornrows: Not necessarily cultural appropriation.

A white person wearing a fake afro to dress up as a <Generic Negro>: Definitely cultural appropriation.

Etc

I don't get the concept of cultural appropriation

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