I don't understand the grinding issue in Assassin's Creed Odyssey

Oct 25, 2017
1,144
Part of the appeal of RPGs is that it's a power fantasy - remember those mobs that wrecked you at the start of your journey? Well after some trials and tribulations you can come back to that area levels later and absolutely stomp. It's satisfying - ACO steals that sense from the player with their level scaling. It's really, really annoying to feel like you aren't making much progress because the enemies magically jump up to your level. Can be highly frustrating when bounty hunters swarm while you're just trying to complete a mission, or you're on a roll unlocking missions but find yourself level gated just when things start to get good - it essentially restricts your freedom of movement.

Really not a fan of the level scaling; definitely a bone-head decision if you ask me!
I definitely hit that power fantasy feel even with level scaling. Once you get your build set up and the better gear there's a big difference from early game.

 
Oct 28, 2017
666
It's one of those things that is championed by people who didn't play the game and who hate microtransactions as a way to dismiss it.

In reality, t's not an issue at all. One of my favorite games of 2018.
Exactly this. It's a non-issue imo. I'm the kind of person who normally just finishes the story missions, then does side stuff, and even I never had significant problems with Odyssey's level-gating. Just doing a few random forts/quests/collectibles between missions is usually enough imo.
 
Jan 3, 2018
1,570
I'll say it again for everyone, grinding is not how you feel towards content. It's an objective process that people can either like or dislike. If Odyssey required you to do like 40 procedurally generated orichalcum quests to progress, that would fit the definition. Fortunately, Odyssey doesn't even require you to do all the unique story missions to have enough EXP to progress.

If grinding merely meant "doing content I don't like to get to content I do" then the main story could plausibly be called grinding in a game if all I enjoyed was endgame combat.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,716
Assassin's Creed switched genres and there are some people who aren't fine with it.
I can' tblame them. I don't have a problem with doing side quests (and a lot of them were quite enjoyable in Odyssey, admittedly) but I definitely mainlined majorit yof the old AC games, I didn't do much of the side content. If I had that same attitude with Origins and Odyssey, I'd hate both. Tbh I found Origins to be somewhat annoying still, because there were really only a handful of enjoyable side missions there. Origins did actually feel like grinding sometimes, like I was only doing side quests to progress the main story. In Odyssey, I never felt that, but I can totally see why one would.
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,188
California
Is there a reason you're so angry all the time?

I mean, being nice isn't exactly a site rule but why always come at things really aggressively?

I don't agree with a lot of people on Era, but I can still get my points across without coming across like I'm foaming at the mouth
If you are upset by unhinged and unregulated anger do yourself a favor and avoid the political threads in EtcetEra section of this forum.
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,188
California
Exactly this. It's a non-issue imo. I'm the kind of person who normally just finishes the story missions, then does side stuff, and even I never had significant problems with Odyssey's level-gating. Just doing a few random forts/quests/collectibles between missions is usually enough imo.
I love video games but I'm not the best at the them. I'll fully admit (probably because I only play at night after 12-13 hour work days and foggy and tired) I'm weaker skill wise but even I had no trouble playing or felt that the content was locked out or had to grind in order to have fun. Being annoyed by some mechanical changes is one thing but this narrative that there is a grind to progress in this game is hogwash.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,927
USA
I'll say it again for everyone, grinding is not how you feel towards content. It's an objective process that people can either like or dislike. If Odyssey required you to do like 40 procedurally generated orichalcum quests to progress, that would fit the definition. Fortunately, Odyssey doesn't even require you to do all the unique story missions to have enough EXP to progress.

If grinding merely meant "doing content I don't like to get to content I do" then the main story could plausibly be called grinding in a game if all I enjoyed was endgame combat.
Agreed. It's like when I see "lag" used incorrectly, which happens a lot. While you do a lot of similar things throughout these games (like the lairs, camps, and tombs), they're not just doing the same exact one over and over. There is always some variation, and when you're done with them, you're done.
 
Nov 2, 2017
978
There IS no grinding in Assassins Creed Odyssey (ie the need to just randomly kill shit for exp to level up, to meet the requirements to continue playing the game).

There are always a pile of level appropriate quests available to undertake, whatever level you may be. (and by quests, I mean fully voiced missions involving characters in the world that actively add to the story of the game- NOT generic notice board missions that send you on generic collect this/kill that assignments, etc. (though the game has these too if you feel like doing them, for feel the need to even more EXP earning activities) but I never even bothered, because there are so many real story quests constantly at or just below my level.

The only real critique that you can make on this game, is yes, there ISN"T a critical path that you can just blow through in 15-20 hours like maybe you could in earlier games, because this game has far more content than just that. So, in other words, you CAN say it has too much content, and that is fine if that is somebodies opinion, I suppose, but its one that I think a majority will disagree with.
 
Oct 27, 2017
576
I'll say it again for everyone, grinding is not how you feel towards content. It's an objective process that people can either like or dislike. If Odyssey required you to do like 40 procedurally generated orichalcum quests to progress, that would fit the definition. Fortunately, Odyssey doesn't even require you to do all the unique story missions to have enough EXP to progress.

If grinding merely meant "doing content I don't like to get to content I do" then the main story could plausibly be called grinding in a game if all I enjoyed was endgame combat.
I remember when grinding was going through the same level/area over and over again killing mobs for xp and collecting resources.
 
Oct 27, 2017
422
I just did the main missions and the gold colored side quests and never had an issue with levels.
This is where I'm at, and I'm consistently 3-4 levels ahead of the main quest, but I do also clear a lot of the points of interest, which can feel pretty grindy at times. Especially considering how similar every point of interest is. Two, maybe three story building, two to three treasure chests, three to four war supplies, one super elite enemy, and two to three normal elites. It's still fun, but it gets very repetitive and grindy. However, I just did the farm on Euobea with the four grain silos, creeping through the wheat fields with two mercs chasing me. It was actually very harrowing and fun.

What I'm genuinely curious about is the post board quests. Are those generic, procedurally generated quests? They all seem to be just very basic assassinate/fetch quests, and some are timed. I just started ignoring them completely because it felt like every time I finished one, another would replace it in the list, and I ain't about that boring ass shit. Reminds me of the annoying "spider are eating my grapes!" quests that kept happening over and over and over and over and over again in Skyrim, or the even worse base defense ones from Fallout 4.

There's also the hourglass quests out in the world that appear to have story content tied to them because the NPCs actually have conversations, but I've kind of been ignoring those too, for the same reasons as the post board quests.

Gold sidequests + story quests + points of interest + occasionally taking down mercenaries + going after all Cult of Kosmos members = pretty streamlined gameplay experience where leveling has never been an issue.

Playing on normal, by the way, with level scaling set to two levels below mine on lower level areas.

EDIT: Can anyone shed light on how the fucking battleground quests work? I'll get to a zone with available battleground quests, ignore them for a few hours, and they'll go gray. Did I just lose the ability to engage those? If so, that sucks. I'm now going to start going after them as soon as I get to a zone.
 
Last edited:
Nov 16, 2017
183
But how do you complain about this? I know i do every quests but i'm 20 level ABOVE what's recommended. How is it possible to feel a wall by just playing the game?
If you just play the main quests, there are a couple of moments where the level requirement jumps by 5 levels - and if you're only playing the main quests, you'll have only just scraped through one level under as it is.
The side quests give out as much xp as main quests and there are 10x as many of them, it's not a difficult thing to understand. You are already playing the content that others feel is grindy.

I bought the double XP on project stream and after leaving athens / meeting dad had to spend 5 hours grinding another 6 levels just to start taking on some new main quests. I felt that wall with double xp - some people were already 10 levels higher by the time they hit that point without the double xp.
the non-main quest content gives out shitloads of xp and the game is balanced around doing a lot of it. you're doing all of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
895
Let me start by saying I finished Odyssey, clocked around 140 hours, did pretty much everything the game had to offer, bar some later added quests and the ending of the 2nd DLC (waiting for the story improvements). I did all this mostly on the normal difficulty setting and did not use any MT or uplay rewards to gain an advantage.

While I personally didn't have any problems with 'grind' due to my playstyle, I do understand people feel limited by the way level-scaling and level-gating are implemented in Odyssey. The way they have gone about it is simply not elegant. There is nothing that justifies the scaling and gating. Aera levels are ONLY higher because they expect you to go there later in the storyline. Equally you could say that the story quest levels are only higher because they take place in higher level areas. From a story context view, outside of some specific content, you aren't suddenly facing more powerful foes, there is no story justification given for why some areas are higher level. In the end it is just "we want the player to experience the areas in roughly this order, and studies show 'numbers must go up' ".

While the game gives players the opportunity to create their own Odyssey by giving them choice in player character and dialog options, it takes away player agency in perhaps the most important part of AC: Odyssey, exploration.

EDIT: Can anyone shed light on how the fucking battleground quests work? I'll get to a zone with available battleground quests, ignore them for a few hours, and they'll go gray. Did I just lose the ability to engage those? If so, that sucks. I'm now going to start going after them as soon as I get to a zone.
If you don't engage in the battleground, after some time the attacking faction will take over without your help. I don't know if there is a specific time for that, but I think I also experienced it while (fast)travelling a sufficient distance away from the region.
 
Nov 13, 2017
2,298
Midwest
Exactly this. It's a non-issue imo. I'm the kind of person who normally just finishes the story missions, then does side stuff, and even I never had significant problems with Odyssey's level-gating. Just doing a few random forts/quests/collectibles between missions is usually enough imo.
I played for over 60 hours and had issues. Did not just do story missions as well: I think the level scaling is a legitimate issue you can't just hand wave away because you personally do not feel affected. I think a sensible solution would be to have it off by default but add the option to turn it on via the menu.
 
Oct 28, 2017
624
At the end of the day it failed in its ability to sell the core fantasy of you being an assassin. As someone on here said, it's a swords and sandals RPG. That's fine if that's what you want, but if you wanted to play as an assassin, all the level gating, and the required xp harvesting it implies, destroys that. Not to mention the boat systems, the conquest systems, etc., having almost no linkage into assassination mechanics/tropes. Again, that's all super cool if you want to play a traditional RPG, but the idea that you can only drop assassinate someone within two levels of you is a super bummer.
 
Nov 13, 2017
629
At the end of the day it failed in its ability to sell the core fantasy of you being an assassin. As someone on here said, it's a swords and sandals RPG. That's fine if that's what you want, but if you wanted to play as an assassin, all the level gating, and the required xp harvesting it implies, destroys that. Not to mention the boat systems, the conquest systems, etc., having almost no linkage into assassination mechanics/tropes. Again, that's all super cool if you want to play a traditional RPG, but the idea that you can only drop assassinate someone within two levels of you is a super bummer.
The main characters in Odyssey aren't, "Assassins."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insert...-are-no-assassins-in-assassins-creed-odyssey/

That said, I've never had an issue with actually assassinating anyone in the game. It takes a little while to level up your skills to where you're good at it, but nothing "destroyed" it for me, as you put it.

How are boats are an issue? A misthios has gotta get around, right?

You're arguing for a pared back game in a different setting. I'm glad they aren't afraid to expand their games. Also, I really missed the Black Flag sailing, so I'm glad that is back.
 

Eon

Member
Nov 21, 2017
716
I finished all three campaign threads at 78h and level 52. I never was under minimum to approach a new quest. I just went where I wanted, hit up gold diamond quests and several side quests.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,439
I definitely hit that power fantasy feel even with level scaling. Once you get your build set up and the better gear there's a big difference from early game.

The lack of power fantasy is common complaint from people, but it rings hollow in Odyssey because not only are you leveling but you are getting skill points to invest in higher tiers of skills. Even when enemies stay around your same level you grow in power in comparison to them. It's also why the "you can't assassinate anyone anymore" complaint isn't true either. Half way through the game I was invincible and could one shot 90% of the mercs, and entire camps in seconds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,098
I don't get how ppl can skip side quests in rpgs, especially the major voice acted ones that add plenty to the world and character building.

Main story stuff is often the least interesting part of most rpgs due to the nature of the genre tends to lead to poor pacing for the main plot line.
 
Nov 2, 2017
7,336
If I remember correctly there were two instances for me where the main quest level requirement suddenly jumped 6 or 7 levels out of nowhere. The first time was around level 22 and the next was in the low 30s.

Grundy isn't really the right word for Odyssey, I would say repetitive is more apt. One of the main issues for me is how samey the open world and point of interest design is. Just way too many reused assets between zones and the majority of fort/camp/caves have a very similar formula.
 
Oct 28, 2017
624
That said, I've never had an issue with actually assassinating anyone in the game. It takes a little while to level up your skills to where you're good at it, but nothing "destroyed" it for me, as you put it.
It's simple level mechanics; as a level 3 you can not one-shot assassinate a level 5; you are guaranteed to get a brawl, or play cat and mouse. This curve may change later on (someone mentioned halfway through the game), I think I stopped playing around level 24 where it was still a frequent occurrence (mercenaries, of course, but even regular fort clears). Anyway, there's nothing per se wrong with that structure, unless you want to play as an assassin. Thus, "swords and sandals RPG".

How are boats are an issue? A misthios has gotta get around, right?
Sure, shanties are cool, water looks great, etc. But if you want to roll stealth there isn't much in those sea battles that will leverage your skills. Same with conquests.

You're arguing for a pared back game in a different setting. I'm glad they aren't afraid to expand their games. Also, I really missed the Black Flag sailing, so I'm glad that is back.
Again, it's perfectly fine they made that game, but if your primary interest was playing a game about the mechanics of being an assassin, you may find the core experience deeply unsatisfying.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,355
It's simple level mechanics; as a level 3 you can not one-shot assassinate a level 5; you are guaranteed to get a brawl, or play cat and mouse. This curve may change later on (someone mentioned halfway through the game), I think I stopped playing around level 24 where it was still a frequent occurrence (mercenaries, of course, but even regular fort clears). Anyway, there's nothing per se wrong with that structure, unless you want to play as an assassin. Thus, "swords and sandals RPG".



Sure, shanties are cool, water looks great, etc. But if you want to roll stealth there isn't much in those sea battles that will leverage your skills. Same with conquests.



Again, it's perfectly fine they made that game, but if your primary interest was playing a game about the mechanics of being an assassin, you may find the core experience deeply unsatisfying.
If you want to play as an assassin, then you go for the assassin skill tree, which will make one shot assassinations or close to it pretty easy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,858
Austria
What?

Locking out the main missions because you're under levelled is an MMO design.
No, it's an RPG design.
Try playing any classic RPG without doing any of the sidequests.
Try mainlining Gothic 2 without engaging with any side content.
It's possible.....probably. But it's going to be hard as hell.

That's how RPGs have always worked.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,226
No, it's an RPG design.
Try playing any classic RPG without doing any of the sidequests.
Try mainlining Gothic 2 without engaging with any side content.

That's how RPGs have always worked.
It's an mmo design. Those games you mentioned don't say "you can't continue till you hit this level" do they? They just get harder if you don't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,858
Austria
It's an mmo design. Those games you mentioned don't say "you can't continue till you hit this level" do they? They just get harder if you don't.
AC Odyseey locks you out of even attempting to do them? Okay, if that's true it's something different, that's true.
I also don't remember a lot of MMOs doing that, haven't played that many tho.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,226
AC Odyseey locks you out of even attempting to do them? Okay, if that's true it's something different, that's true.
I also don't remember a lot of MMOs doing that, haven't played that many tho.
It happens in quite a few MMOs. At a certain point the main questline is level gated, and you have to stop and go grind for a bit to continue unless you did a bunch of grinding while you played the main questline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,058
Can't wait for the thread where you've spend a bunch of money buying power in a p2w game, and then wonder why people think there's a balance issue in that game
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,858
Austria
It happens in quite a few MMOs. At a certain point the main questline is level gated, and you have to stop and go grind for a bit to continue unless you did a bunch of grinding while you played the main questline.
Maybe I didn't play enough AC Odyssey but that never happened to me. I also didn't finish the game, so I dunno.
That's weird, I agree.
 
Dec 30, 2017
568
MMO systems like this have no place in SP games, the only reason they added this was to sell more MTs.

EIther you pay to skip, or you stay in game longer and increase chances of paying something extra.
If you stay in game longer you decrease your chances because the side quests over level you.
 
Dec 30, 2017
568
Not that "it's not an assassin's creed game" again pleaaase no....
I was so tired by Syndicate i don't want to go back except if it's Unity style (the best AC game gameplay before the Origins era)
His argument is that side content isn’t skippable. In the older games you had the option to run through the main campaign. Allegedly that is less viable now, I haven’t played it personally.
 
Oct 29, 2017
483
Decades of games have included barriers to the mainline quest progression without some level of side quest action, and until recently these games included no microtransactions. Perhaps it's not the best game design, but it's a tried and true strategy for devs to add content to a game that doesn't quite fit the main story. Just bc games now include microtransactions doesn't invalidate this core justification for including side quests, even though devs clearly don't mind if some gamers will decide to pay to progress faster.

At the end of the day, I think ppl who don't like a game will never be happy with any aspect that interferes with their narrow field of enjoyment. If you like playing the game, then it's much harder to see why any of Odyssey's gatekeeping is a problem. If you're just meh on it, there's a clear conspiracy to bilk you for cash