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Cudpug

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,557
It's very well made but I feel like a lot more could be done with the concept. I think it is a delightful game that kept me hooked for a long while, though I certainly didn't collect every single moon before feeling as if I'd had my fill. My biggest gripe was that they knocked out the biggest and best kingdoms early (Sand Kingdom is huge), while some of the later kingdoms were much smaller and less interesting in my opinion. Still prefer Galaxy 1/2, personally.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,483
I can't speak to the worlds or music, that's personal preference. But I can talk about the overabundance of moons design.

Basically, I think the idea is for you to explore the world at your own pace. While doing so, you're supposed to keep an eye out for those telltale hints of moons. The hidden ground pounds, the hidden angles around the walls, etc. It rewards you for being always aware of your surroundings. On top of those, you have the multitude of tasks to do that also reward moons. After you've had your fill of a world, you move on. Or if you're a completionist, you ask the parrot for the names of the moons and you basically transition to a scavenger hunt. The required number of moons is low specifically to allow you to advance if you're not feeling collecting EVERY moon.
 

Numberfox

Member
Aug 5, 2018
5,971
3D Mario is in that weird position where it's trying to appeal to 2 very different audiences: the ones who enjoy linear structured gameplay like Galaxy/3D Land, and the ones who enjoy the more open-world-like design of 64 and Sunshine. The people who enjoy the latter like it specifically because of how free form the open-world-like design, allowing you to essentially figure out your own platforming instead of performing the platforming the designers specifically created for you. I think both have their strengths, and Nintendo does both designs incredibly well, it's just that they've created two different audiences in one genre they more or less monopolize, so one audience is gonna get disappointed every release.

Just keep in mind this is from someone who basically is just speculating, since I personally don't enjoy 3D platformers at all. I guess the best way I'd recommend understanding the appeal is watching someone who really loves Odyssey. I'd recommend dunkey.

Here's his initial review:


And his recent Mario video almost a year later:


To put it in perspective, he generally only makes one video per single-player game. However, the fact that he's come back to the game a couple times since and still produces content on it nearly a year later shows how much he enjoys playing this style of 3D Mario.
 
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Rayman not Ray

Self-requested ban
Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,486
I'm of two minds with Mario Odyssey. I enjoyed it at the time, but I have very little interest in going back to it. I think it's a great game, but maybe it suffered in comparison to BotW, which I was playing at the same time.

Personally, I don't relate to any of the main critiques. I though that searching for moons was its own reward, and having tons of them didn't feel like it diluted the experience.

What made me stop playing was that I beat the game, and didn't have any interest in going back and finding more moons. The first playthrough of each level was great, but I'm not sure they all stand up to being revisited.

Also, I unlocked the super hard final challenge, tried it a few time, and got frustrated and quit. I love super hard platformers, but for some reason I found that level to be frustrating and not fun.
 

TwinsUltra64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Cyberspace, EUROPE
Adventure is not the same as story.

For me, the adventure is my own and generally more important than the story in a game like BotW or the original Zelda. Same goes for randomized versions of The Legend of Zelda, Zelda II, or ALttP. Exploring and making my own adventure over a "corridor" that I have to follow is much more preferable to me.

I was talking about the main lenght of Breath compared to Ocarina, it took me 125 hours to finish Breath (finding all the shrines and completing all the sidequest) and the game felt like there's missing something for the main adventure that the older games had like dungeons, shrines were more like a filler and that's it.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
I feel like there is some sort of positive hype machine with each new game release, completely disconnected from game quality, especially with big Nintendo games. But then months later you get the "real story" as real criticism comes out. At this point I don't even care about the hyperbolic hype bubbles that form before and during a games release.

Mario Odyssey was billed as Marios return to sandbox, the first since Sunshine. The problem is, like Sunshine, MO has no idea why people want a sandbox or why Mario 64 was good. I'll say it plainly: Mario 64 was so good because it was really satisfying to use an acrobatic Marios full moveset against a consistently fresh and challenging set of platforming obstacles laid out in an open environment. Both Sunshine and MO put this concept in the back seat.

Sunshine was focused on aiming a water gun most the time. You only got the Mario you wanted on those brilliant underground courses where Fludd was gone. Sunshine had other issues too with collectables padding and pacing. But the focus was on the water gun.

Odyssey was focused on capturing. I actually liked the hat throws and stuff you could do with that. But every time you capture you dumb down the game to basically 1 or 2 moves, down from Marios 15+ moveset. And boy oh boy do you capture. It felt like the only time you were Mario was when you were running to the next scripted capture segment. Even the grey pipes at the end were almost always capture sections. Also the 2D throwback sections were again a step backwards. It was a game of 99% gimmicks and 1% meat. Mario 64 had the special caps but you were still Mario, plus these sections were sparse.

Next Mario game I just want to be Mario. I don't want to be a Bullet Bill, a Koopa, a caterpillar, a T-Rex, or whatever. I just want to be Mario facing an open sandbox environment full of fresh platforming ideas. Also, it's time to reinvent Marios look. Don't turn him into a Barbie doll. Give him a new identity. Even Mickey Mouse has been reinvented several times.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
I don't like short games, I love games that takes tons of time
I was commenting the fact Nintendo hide Breath of the wild's lenght behind stuff that are not important for the adventure, Ocarina of time is a longer game. I guess this is for another topic since I'm going OFF TOPIC.
Why do you play games?

FWIW, you never answered why you played games? I've played 250+ hours of BotW for the adventure, which was getting new experiences. The minority of that time was about story, koroks, shrines, whatnot. Climbing a rainy Zora mountain from the "wrong" direction and succeed to pass it was a great personal adventure, for example.

My son has spent 100+ hours in Mario Odyssey, where the minority of that time was collecting the moons. The main time was trying to perfect the jumps to try to get up on "impossible" places.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
I loved the game, it's not for everyone, like every other game. But I still greatly enjoyed it. So much love and care went into. I'd pick it over Breath of the Wild any day.

It's OK to not like things. You don't need "help".

One of my favorite games of this gen. Mario is just so fun to control and some of the moves you can pull off by chaining stuff together are crazy
It's ok to not like things other people like. Just means youhave different tastes

Also these.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
I can understand OP hating the game this much if they played SMO right after completing SMG.

Going from that linear level progression style of rapid fun and engagement, moment after moment, with little downtime and music that's GOAT tier to this would be kind of jarring... as much as I like SMO.

Hell maybe even going from 3DW would make this feel like a slog, especially with the stupid number of unnecessary throwaway moons.

But the game does enough differently and well, with a new and excellent mechanic, and with enough unique charm. The optional/bonus content is quality as well. In the end, all things considered, it's a very good game.
 

TwinsUltra64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Cyberspace, EUROPE
FWIW, you never answered why you played games? I've played 250+ hours of BotW for the adventure, which was getting new experiences. The minority of that time was about story, koroks, shrines, whatnot. Climbing a rainy Zora mountain from the "wrong" direction and succeed to pass it was a great personal adventure, for example.

My son has spent 100+ hours in Mario Odyssey, where the minority of that time was collecting the moons. The main time was trying to perfect the jumps to try to get up on "impossible" places.

This wasn't what I meant, what I meant was hiding a short game behind fillers if that makes sense, at least give me some reward for exploring the entire world and not a korok poo this is not what I was expeting.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
I agree with you totally, but I knew coming in that I would almost assuredly prefer 3D World and 3D Land to it.

I thought the levels were mostly pretty boring too and that the game was mostly a tedious, poorly paced slog with poorly communicated direction to guide the player along. Mario feels pretty good to control for the most part, but I definitely far, far prefer 3D Land + World to this game. Even going in with tempered expectations I still wound up feeling disappointed with it. At least Breath of the Wild makes up for how disappointing I found Mario to be.

If I had one word to describe Super Mario Odyssey it would be meandering. Kind of hard to think about describing a Mario game like that.
 

100mega

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,160
Chalk me up as someone who cared for the game less and less the more I played it. To me it pales in comparison to most 3D Mario adventures due to the abundance of Moons, lack of challenge and repetitive goals. I didn't hate the game and I had enough fun to not resell it, but it isn't the second coming of Jesus that a lot of people made it out to be. It's got issues.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
Super Mario RPG put its genre change right in the title, though
So now we're willing to acknowledge that one franchise can span multiple genres that make comparisons nonsensical, but only if they "put the change in the title"? What even is your argument here? Comparing a 3D open world game to a timed linear course platformer makes sense because nobody knew it wasn't a platformer because it wasn't "in the name" and everyone bought it blindly?

I guess Mario vs Rabbids is a bad platformer? Or is it a bad party game?
 

Blergmeister

Member
Oct 27, 2017
350
I enjoyed the game myself enough to find 800+ moons before moving on, but I dont want to talk about me.

My wife, casual gamer who has nostalgia for the N64 era, really bit on this game. I'm talking Mario 64 and Banjo style exploratory platformers being her jam. In addition my kids were just the right age, 4 and 6, that they'd watch their mom and get excited to point out all those plainly obvious moons. I mean, jumping up and down.

My 6 year old started her profile and can make it through pretty good portions of the game on her own thanks to assist mode and my 4 year old is happy as can be being planted in New Donk city (no enemies) and left alone to explore and discover.

I know this doesnt help you OP with your concerns but explains why this specific game is highly praised by my family.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
It was mildly amusing, but I bored of it real quick and had absolutely no desire to go back for more moons after the game was over. The Galaxy and World games were so much more fun to me.
 
OP
OP
Dest

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,057
Work
I enjoyed the game myself enough to find 800+ moons before moving on, but I dont want to talk about me.

My wife, casual gamer who has nostalgia for the N64 era, really bit on this game. I'm talking Mario 64 and Banjo style exploratory platformers being her jam. In addition my kids were just the right age, 4 and 6, that they'd watch their mom and get excited to point out all those plainly obvious moons. I mean, jumping up and down.

My 6 year old started her profile and can make it through pretty good portions of the game on her own thanks to assist mode and my 4 year old is happy as can be being planted in New Donk city (no enemies) and left alone to explore and discover.

I know this doesnt help you OP with your concerns but explains why this specific game is highly praised by my family.
No, this does help. Just not in the way I think I was looking for. I'm glad that you have a personal experience with the game that you'll cherish and can share with your family. That's awesome and I'm glad the game had such an appeal and bought you all together.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,579
I love the game because it's so fun to control Mario. The gameplay is top notch and even if the task is mundane, the gameplay will make in fun. In fact, I turn on the game and just aimless run and jump around the worlds because it's pure fun to control Mario.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
3D Mario is in that weird position where it's trying to appeal to 2 very different audiences: the ones who enjoy linear structured gameplay like Galaxy/3D Land, and the ones who enjoy the more open-world-like design of 64 and Sunshine. The people who enjoy the latter like it specifically because of how free form the open-world-like design, allowing you to essentially figure out your own platforming instead of performing the platforming the designers specifically created for you. I think both have their strengths, and Nintendo does both designs incredibly well, it's just that they've created two different audiences in one genre they more or less monopolize, so one audience is gonna get disappointed every release.
yeah it does seem like a tricky situation
 
Oct 30, 2017
887
I feel like there is some sort of positive hype machine with each new game release, completely disconnected from game quality, especially with big Nintendo games. But then months later you get the "real story" as real criticism comes out. At this point I don't even care about the hyperbolic hype bubbles that form before and during a games release.

So the thousands of extremely positive reviews, many of which are from jaded videogame reviewers who have played literally everything and are hard to impress, who explicitly state what they loved about the game in great detail, are all "disconnected from reality", while threads like this are the "real story".

Got it.

Opinions are fine. What isn't fine is shitting on everything positive, pretending it's all "fake news", and then putting a massive amount of weight on a small minority of people who didn't like the game as "real". I mean..come the fuck on. What compels you to do that? Why is this thread the "reality", and the fact that SMO has sold like 15,000,000 copies and is one of the best rated games of all time NOT the reality? Who is disconnected from what?
 
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Aug 29, 2018
1,089
I mean I did like the music, most of the worlds, and don't think you can really fault the game for not being challenging during the first playthroughs critical path. Challenge in Marios has always been more in the secrets and collectibles until end game or post credits....so idk just don't feel that complaint as much personally, even though the main game if you are just breezing through was pretty easy it isn't most of the game and the novelty of each new possession kept me happy

Some decisions felt a little fan servicey to me; in particular I think that the final level of the game would've actually been a fantastic opening level, and could've provided a better start for the story as opposed to being a cute nostalgia play. Yeah there are a lot of moons but it is pretty fun going from collecting them like coins to where the hell is this last moon, and overall I love the game. A lot of cool moments, mostly fun mini sandboxes to explore (forgotten kingdom weakest imo), didn't love the rabbi but some of those bosses where really cool and mario himself controls fantastic (motion controls to go fast is annoying though)
 

Camstun187

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,166
China
It's a very relaxed game. I can't blame people for not taking to it's laid back nature. It's literally the chillest game ever.

It's not until you sit down with it on a rainy day thay it just clicks in all the right ways.

It's masterful, but very subtle. It grows on you. There is just stuff to do everywhere.

But, if you want some get-up-and-go, then it might not be for you.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I think one of the major disconnects between people who love this and BotW and people who dislike those games is that those two games in particular are a lot more about sandboxes than they are about structured levels/missions or progressing a storyline. Previous 3D Marios and 3D Zeldas have been much more focused on that, while these two new games are much more about giving you a whole bunch of tools and telling you to go nuts.

That doesn't mean the level design is poor, or that the moons/Koroks are filler, that means that the levels and goodies were designed specifically to encourage you to play around with the game world and the game mechanics without necessarily having a clear goal in mind.

I suppose some people might find this less fun or interesting than others. But I think that's the key difference between these games and past entries.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,238
Odyssey started out meh for me ( didn't like the cap kingdom) then it started getting good ( the dinosaur kingdom where the music finally hit) then I started to feel bored again ( The desert kingdom is too big and empty / boring to traversal ) and after that it was the water kingdom ( a snooze fest) but thank goodness it was short cause Finally the game started to pick up in when I hit the wooded mingdom, ( liked the music in this one ) but it was short lived cause wooded also became kinda stale, finally the game reaaaaaaalllly picked up with jungle, new donk and everything after ( except for snow, that one also sucked )

But yeah it was a rollercoaster of a ride for me, some kingdoms were just too boring or too big but others in between were amazing.

I ended up liking the game but a lot of the kingdoms were meh especially the end game kingdoms ( mushroom kingdom ) like come on no music ???? Fuck that
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
You're meant to miss stuff. If you try to seek out every moon in your first run, you're going to have a bad time.

It's more of an exploration game than a pure platformer. Every area you find will have something that you can interact with. It's not meant to be challenging, for better or worse, just playful.

It's a charmingly simple game honestly. I think you just expected something different, OP.
 

Galactor

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
619
I felt there was a problem with the "bird catching" moons. You were supposed to find the perfect spot to jump into the bird in the next cycle. But meanwhile you just did nothing. I thought Miyamoto wouldn't have allowed a moon encouraging mario not to move.
 

Rudderless

Member
Nov 3, 2017
25
Short version: You're dead inside.

Long version: LOL, not really. It's a different kind of Mario game from his recent adventures, and even a step away from SM64's sandbox approach. It doesn't have as many traditional obstacle-course-style objectives, which many players enjoy. A lot of Mario levels feel like clockwork contraptions that only really work when you slot in the missing cog: Mario. He makes everything tick as it should. These worlds are purpose-built for him. Meanwhile, games like Odyssey and Sunshine, to an extent, feel like places that could exist without him. Each approach has its pros and cons. Part of the reason people like Galaxy and its sequel so much is that they find a nice balance between the two styles.

To address the criticism of the so-called 'throwaway' moons: they're there to give less experienced players a way to reach the finish, to reward explorers and give younger audiences a sense of playful discovery. It is, however, a game that at some point is going to annoy anyone who just has to get 100% completion, simply because there are tasks that weren't necessarily designed with that type of player in mind. Some are going to really struggle with a few of the more challenging late-game objectives. By the same token, those who enjoy testing their twitch platforming skills are inevitably going to be a little disappointed with the moons you can get your hands on with little to no effort. Here's the thing: you're not really meant to get everything. The option's there, but at the same time once you've seen the final kingdom – and let's face it, the barrier of entry isn't that high; there are tons of moons still to get if you head there at your first opportunity – there's nothing stopping you from quitting. That's why the very final rewards for the most dedicated players aren't all that exciting: the game doesn't want to withhold anything really desirable from the majority of players who don't necessarily have that desire to wring it dry.

You could argue that having so many moons diminishes the sense of achievement, and maybe there's a kernel of truth in that. Then again, Nintendo has always made games where the reward is not the shiny trinket at the end, but the sense of accomplishment that comes with it. When you conquered Luigi's Purple Coins (or whatever) you weren't happy because you got the star, but because you'd beaten a difficult challenge. So I don't really buy the criticism that the moons don't mean anything.

For me, a lot of the joy in Super Mario Odyssey comes from simply moving Mario around. He's just a pleasure to control: amazingly responsive, with a wonderful, flexible moveset that lets you pull off all sorts of neat little tricks. And the balloon bonus mode - which itself seems like a throwaway addition - lets you use it to its fullest, because you'll need to be clever to get some of the most well-hidden ones (and to find yourself a good spot to place your own). I'm one of those players who did wring it dry, who got 999 moons, who saw everything there is to see. And I still find myself going back every now and again – sure, partly to farm enough coins from the Bowser Kingdom beanstalk challenge to buy the new costumes they keep adding, but mostly because I just love the feel of the thing. I stick it on, run and jump and throw my cap around a bit, maybe hide or find the odd balloon, and that's enough for me. At the same time I don't blame anyone for wanting something more, or something different. It's just a matter of personal taste.
 

Vitor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
517
I get the feeling you prefer goal oriented Mario games, like Galaxy and 3D World. How much do you like SM64?
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,467
So now we're willing to acknowledge that one franchise can span multiple genres that make comparisons nonsensical, but only if they "put the change in the title"? What even is your argument here? Comparing a 3D open world game to a timed linear course platformer makes sense because nobody knew it wasn't a platformer because it wasn't "in the name" and everyone bought it blindly?

I guess Mario vs Rabbids is a bad platformer? Or is it a bad party game?
Spin-offs have been a long-standing thing for Mario games, and no one questions that spin-offs are going to have drastically different gameplay from the main Super Mario series titles.

People are always gonna compare the main Super Mario series titles, though, and so if Nintendo's decided that some of the main Super Mario titles are gonna be open-world sandboxes and some of them are gonna be level-based obstacle courses, they're going to need to be prepared for any potential reactions these changes and shifts are gonna get from consumers. It's Nintendo's responsibility to manage those reactions, not the responsibility of fans to moderate their own expectations and certainly not to decide there's no point in comparing the two approaches.
 

SeeingeyeDug

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,004
I enjoyed running through it and beating the main game. All the additional stars got boring. They wanted to make a bunch of end game content but it's too much. 1000 stars? I much preferred the 120 stars from M64. Each Star you went for changed the level slightly which isn't present in this game going for moons.

It's fun enough I suppose, but there are Way too many moons and it causes each one to not feel special. I lost my desire to play it pretty quickly. I still don't feel any desire to replay it.
 

sugar bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,644
It's a brilliant game but I like 3D World even more. The soundtrack of Odyssey doesn't even come close.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
United States
Some people like 3d world, some people dont. Odyssey was for people who dont. The end.

Edit: I know 3d world gets a lot of love here, but i feel like that's a vocal minority. Most Nintendo fans prefer the openness of 64/sunshine. In my opinion, Nintendo made the right choice in pandering to that fan base instead of the galaxy/world crew. You can always get your linear 3d platformer next time.
 

Vivian-Pogo

Member
Jan 9, 2018
2,036
I love 3D sandbox platformers like Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie, but Mario Odyssey didn't quite click for me. I enjoyed my time with it up until I beat the main adventure, but it's not something I feel like wanting to go back to. I collected over 500 moons, but I can't say many of them were memorable objectives, which I feel is perhaps the biggest problem with the game. There's like a thousand moons in the game, and yet it feels like there's less variety than Mario 64 or BK with their 120/100 stars/jiggies.

Even A Hat in Time was more memorable to me than Odyssey, with stuff like Queen Vanessa's Manor or the entirety of the Bird Movie Studios. Nothing in Odyssey really stands out, barring the Pauline performance in New Donk City. That was excellent.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I played it for a few hours. I cant tell you how many worlds i finished because they were all thoroughly boring. Quit somewhere during the underwater levels.

I just don't get it. First with Zelda and now this. These campaigns take everything bad from gta and Ubisoft open world games and double down on them. And critics went nuts. 98? Really?

The thing i hated the most was beating the final boss and having to grind out the remaining tokens just to leave. It's like the game is forcing side quests on me, something even Ubisoft didn't do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
I liked it, but I was definitely disappointed in it in the end. I actually really liked the Hat Mechanics but the worlds were pretty bland in my opinion.

My 4 year old son on the other hand absolutely loves it and it's the only game he has actually cared enough to keep playing. So it's a great game to me for that reason alone lol.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Most overrated game of 2017. The game lacked identity in every way. Somehow suffered both from bloat (the number of moons made them an annoyance stopping the action everytime you did anything even mildly interesting) and a feeling of rush with the small amount of worlds and how quickly the game moves you along from one to the next (yes, you could stay and do more moons but I'd argue the game would rather you do it all post-game). By the time I had reached the end, I was tired at being rewarded for doing every little thing from ground pounding the shiny spot to actual difficult playforming challenges that it all felt like a chore and yet, I still felt like it ended to quickly.

The only real praise I can give it is it's probably the best Mario has ever controlled and some set pieces (end of New Donk and end of the story) were very well done.

As a side note that I don't feel like getting into, the boss design was also very lackluster.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
United States
I played it for a few hours. I cant tell you how many worlds i finished because they were all thoroughly boring. Quit somewhere during the underwater levels.

I just don't get it. First with Zelda and now this. These campaigns take everything bad from gta and Ubisoft open world games and double down on them. And critics went nuts. 98? Really?

The thing i hated the most was beating the final boss and having to grind out the remaining tokens just to leave. It's like the game is forcing side quests on me, something even Ubisoft didn't do.
Lol, gta and ubisoft games wouldn't exist without mario 64 and zelda oot. This is some backwards ass revisionist history on Nintendo, right here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
For one of your points Id reckon the Balloon quests offer difficulty?

At least from what Ive seen of Dunkey playing.

I really enjoyed the game but can agree the quantity of moons diminished the value of receiving a moon
 

ozfunghi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
I actually like the fact that it is littered with moons. Some are just for grabs, others can be pretty hard. But it just isn't as stressful when you can't get that "last" moon, because there's always another moon right around the corner. This gives the game a pretty laid back flow, which kind of suits Mario imo. I think it's also very easy to get into, not only because there are so many moons, but also because the levels are rather inviting. Also, the "assist" mode is awesome, my kids, 5 & 7 love the game, sometimes i need to help, but about 80% of the game they've completed themselves. It may not be a "masterpiece" by general Mario standards, but maybe because it keeps being fun while open to a more casual crowd as well. It's just a very easygoing game. To compare, after beating Bowser in Mario Galaxy, a game that blew me away, i couldn't get into the game anymore to search for new stars or visit new worlds. I actually find Odyssey less of a chore, just because by playing 5 minutes, you can collect 2 or 3 moons. So it's also much better suited for shorter play sessions.