• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
The announce of the fighter pass #2 for Smash Ultimate was, for me, a huge disappointment. I don't think we need any more characters in this game, or at least, I don't think new characters is the priority for this game. There are tons of things that could, in my opinion, make the game way better than your or my favorite pick for the next fighter pass.

First, we have already A LOT of characters, with Byleth, we have 75 unique characters. If you are a video game fan and if you love Smash Bros, there exists at least ONE character that will suits your playstyle. If not I don't think a new character will change the way you will look at the game, it's probably the game in itself that is not for your taste. We could expand the roster infinitely and we will never make everyone happy, at some point it's good to stop and think about something else. And oh boy there is a lot to think of.

Second, the game focus too much on characters and forget about anything else. Where are the new solo modes ? Sakurai said that homerun contest will be the last mode to be added in the game but we will still get fighter until februrary 2021 ??? Why not a target mode tailored for every fighters ? That would be hard to make but I am willing to pay for that. I am also willing to pay for new solo content, like why not a story mode ? There are so much more to add in this game than just characters. We could also get new stages not linked to new characters, with a much more detailed layout than the typical travelling stage with a bridge and 2 plates. That is sad to focus only on characters, after all, Smash is also well known to have great single player content.

Third, the game in itself is far from perfect. The patches so far are kinda lackluster, they always fail to adress the major issues with the game. Why is the online mode as bad as it was one year ago ? Why the buffer is still so bad ? Why is the input lag still so high ? Why is training mode so bad ? Why are their so few options online ? Where are Squad Strike and Special Smash online ? Why so many characters are not getting buffs or even fixes despite all of us knowing about them for quite sometimes. I could go on, I have my own grips with the game (how I think recoveries are broken in this game) and I guess you have too. My point is that instead of adding new characters, maybe the team should focus on fixing everything wrong in this game. There are so many clips of characters behaving weirdly because some of their moves don't interact properly with another character's moves. You may say then "but blackquill, requesting solo content and also requesting bigger patches is not really clever right ?" and you are ! If I had to choose between more content or a more polished game I would choose the latter one. I was making a suggestion on what kind of content I would see instead of characters.

Last, it would be good if Sakurai stops working on this game, taking vacation and making another game that isn't smash bros is good.

Well that is all and that is why I don't want more newcomers in Smash Ultimate. The roster size is becoming more and more of a burden. Yes, it's nice to have new characters every two or three months but the thing is, if you come back on the game only to play the character and end up not loving him, you sure are not going to play a lot more afterwards. But instead, if you get great single player content, a new interesting mode or even an online mode that is not rage inducing, you are more likely to play more because the overall quality of the game has been improved. Adding a new character has not as much impact as you guys may think. Also Byleth is so bad and uninteresting moveset wise, I am looking forward more to the new patch than the character

tl;dr : too many characters, dev team should focus on more various contents and make bigger patches instead.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,163
yes, new characters are the reason you don't have online squad strike
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,102
I agree this game need new modes but I see why Sakurai is pushing to get as much character as possible.
Sakurai said on a interview or Famitsu column that if Next Smash were to happen, they won't be able to put out all those characters again, so he's going all out now.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,696
Panama
the whole point of this game was to have everyone in it at the expense of everything else.

hoping for new modes and stuff seems like it'd be something for the next game when they reset the cast and have more resources for those modes.
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,525
you realize the choice isn't "new characters or new modes" it's "new characters or nothing"?
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,480
They could add a Battle Pass

And call it a Smash Pass

So I can make a "Smash or Pass" joke

That would make me happy
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
I kinda agree. REALLY wish they'd improve the features of Ultimate, not just add new characters. Online friend lobbies are still slow when selecting new characters when you wanna swap. I want more alt costumes, new modes, etc.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
This is a great case of misconstruing the lack of something as being because of the existence of something else.

Also the character balance is mostly fine for once. I'm really not sure what needs fixing on that end outside of smaller stuff.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,022
While I agree that I would really like to see some things, mainly online, given a boost, characters aren't the reason that isn't happening. If the characters don't happen, that doesn't mean the updates to improve things automatically do. Plus characters bring in the most money, while a (paid) mode wouldn't do the same.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Because new fighters generate excitement and sell. People will be excited for Crash, DOOMguy or whatever in 2021 and it will be watched by millions still. You're not going to get that same level of excitement for stages or side modes, unless they're very, very good.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
I want Sakurai to work on another revival of an old IP like Kid Icarus, bursting with creativity and fresh possibilities. But it doesn't matter what you or I want. All that matters is insane fanboy speculation drives word of mouth for Nintendo's brands. That's the reason this DLC keeps getting made and will never, ever stop. People are emotionally invested in their preferred corporate brand being recognized and will yap endlessly about it, increasing Nintendo's presence in online discussion.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,627
This might be a bold prediction, but I think we're going to get character passes for this game for years to come. So you should get used to it.
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
I actually don't disagree.

But people want new characters just for hype really and to promote their wishlist of characters. At least most. I wish Sakurai woulda stopped, and started working on something else and new, he's great
 

Deleted member 32135

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,555
Character balance is pretty good. Of course there are dominant characters, as in every game. Ultimate mechanics usually beneficts to the fastest characters of the roster. However, trying to balance the game for 1v1 as well as for free for all 8 players is not an easy task... so the big guys, not usually in the high tier list for 1v1 matches, can enjoy their moment in other kind of battles. But the number of different characters who have won majors are much bigger than in Smash 4, Brawl or Melee.

New fighter pass existance is what will bring us new balance patches for two more years. Content wise the game has a lot already on it for single and multiplayer and they added some extra modes people asked for since the launch. Also, personal opinion, Smash mechanics has proven not to be great for the kind of single player modes propsoed in previous games like Subspace Emissary or Smash Run. The game is at its best when fighting in an arena with fall offs (it even loose a lot when the scenario has not fall offs), and proved to be just a poor platformer/beat em up when tried something different... and I guess they know that.

I agree in relation to fix those small glitches between some characters, but don't pretend either that the game is broken in this way or that they didn't make anything about them, since some have been fixed by patches already. Online lag, more than modes, should totally be adressed but this is Nintendo we are talking about so sadly I really don't expect anything.

The "Sakurai should take a break" argument is something people repeat but somehow never give a reason to that. If the guy is happy doing Smash over anything else, then let he do it. He has created a series from scratch and elevated it to being, probably, the biggest money maker game at the moment for Nintendo.

Edit: Also, recovery wise Ultimate tries to incintivate the out of stage game, which usually is the hypest to watch by the spectactors and also beneficts the low level players to enjoy the game and not die so easily. I agree some recoveries are too good anyway, while others that look too good are easily exploitable (KK Rool).
 
Last edited:

Vyse

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,392
You'll get a more robust story/adventure mode when the next game comes and they gut 30%+ of the roster, for now you get new characters.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
I actually don't disagree.

But people want new characters just for hype really and to promote their wishlist of characters. At least most. I wish Sakurai woulda stopped, and started working on something else and new, he's great
Sakurai prefers working on Smash because rather than working on one game, for him it's like working on many multiple games. That's the real appeal of more characters at the end of the day, not "hype" but the fact that more gaming worlds can congregate and get immortalized in a way that allows for them to exist in multiple different permutations. I may never get another Earthbound game, let alone replay it more than once every three years, and this will eventually apply to all franchises on here, but the world I love will still be represented in a game I'm bound to return to regularly for years to come.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,515
Spain
You really don't understand that the guy who designs the texture of a new character is not the same as the guy who programs online mode?
 
OP
OP
Blackquill

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
the whole point of this game was to have everyone in it at the expense of everything else.

hoping for new modes and stuff seems like it'd be something for the next game when they reset the cast and have more resources for those modes.
one wasn't made in expense of the other

You guys tell me totally the opposite things, I don't know what to respond.

This is a great case of misconstruing the lack of something as being because of the existence of something else.

Also the character balance is mostly fine for once. I'm really not sure what needs fixing on that end outside of smaller stuff.

I don't think it's that fine. Smash 4 top tier got overnerfed (Cloud, Bayo, Diddy) and some of them have attacks just straight up not work (especially for Bayo). Some other characters are good but for the wrong reasons (Link who is supposed to be projectile based character is actually great mostly thanks to its magnificent nair). Finally a lot of charcters may look cool but are weirdly designed (Little Mac for example)

Because new fighters generate excitement and sell. People will be excited for Crash, DOOMguy or whatever in 2021 and it will be watched by millions still. You're not going to get that same level of excitement for stages or side modes, unless they're very, very good.

I get it for a business standpoint but I talk as a huge fan of Smash Ultimate, who only wants the game to be better. Maybe for Nintendo it's good but for me, it's not as interesting and trust me, when Goku will be revealed (which will never happen) I would be really happy. But I don't think it would make my enjoyment of the game better. Characters reveals are events that happens almost outside of the game, I mean, the funniest part is the reveal, not the character most of the time.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
I didn't even want the first pass to be a thing, personally. It is what it is.

Though before someone says it doesn't affect me if I don't buy it, that's not really true as someone who dabbles in competitive play.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,346
They could add a Battle Pass

And call it a Smash Pass

So I can make a "Smash or Pass" joke

That would make me happy

a0c.gif
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,696
Panama
they said that things like trophies, trophy rush, target blast, master hand orders, smash run, etc were cut to be able to have time and resources to put every character in the game. that's also why the alternate B moves got cut instead of being improved.

they even folded event mode and story mode into one to steamline the process and removed a lot of the multiman modes and folded All Star into one of them.

if this is not characters getting in at the expense of modes, i don't know what it is.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
I don't think it's that fine. Smash 4 top tier got overnerfed (Cloud, Bayo, Diddy) and some of them have attacks just straight up not work (especially for Bayo). Some other characters are good but for the wrong reasons (Link who is supposed to be projectile based character is actually great mostly thanks to its magnificent nair). Finally a lot of charcters may look cool but are weirdly designed (Little Mac for example
It's still easily the closest we've had to a balanced roster since 64, if not ever. It's never going to be perfect, but I'm actually still surprised at how good it is.
 
OP
OP
Blackquill

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
You really don't understand that the guy who designs the texture of a new character is not the same as the guy who programs online mode?

I understand that, thank you for your not passive-aggressive comment at all.

Allocating ressources also means allocating different types of workers in the game's development. Nintendo (or Sakurai or Bandai Namco) invested in workers that can produce more fighters but not programs online mode. And I criticize this choice, not the fact that the guy that makes texture should fix the online mode.
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
The ROI on a patch I think isn't as much as on new characters. I guess Nintendo knows that as well. Also I'd be willing to bet there are more smash players like me than like you, That play with friends and aren't "serious" about it, and would rather have lots of characters to choose from and enjoy than have "one character that suits your play style." I can't imagine having much fun playing smash and only using one character.
 

OrigamiPirate

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
585
San Francisco
The only add on content I'm paying for are characters. Mii costumes if they come with songs, I discovered. If they add anything else, I hope it's free. But I'll buy Character Passes for as long as they make them, come hell or high water.
 

Gearkeeper 8A

Member
Oct 27, 2017
617
Why so many characters are not getting buffs or even fixes despite all of us knowing about them for quite sometimes.
But they are getting every single patch you see buff and fixes to characters that need them, the balancing is pretty good for a game with 70+ characters and one of the best balanced games in modern fighting games, yes there are things that can improve but the balance is one of the better things of ultimate another thing most of Twitter clips are false propapanga some of them are real issues but many of them are excuses to poor spacing or timing.
 

ShinNL

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
389
The purchase cost of those new characters is what funds the development of said patches.
Instead of the sale of the original copy funding the development cost of the game and the extra revenue from being a multi-million seller not being enough? And how other games have updates and patches, for free, to update the base game to sell more copies?

In the end of the day it's just each consumer buying overpriced characters. We're not kickstarters nor investors.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
Because people don't get hyped for new modes and tweaks; they go nuts for new characters.

Characters are what bring in the big money.
 

Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,725
I kind of agree with you here. As much as I enjoy new character announcements I have some major issues with the game.

- The online is terrible. The input lag even with good connection is absolutely garbage.
- The buffer system is ridiculous.
- c-stick aerials are so bad. Why do I have momentum with a c-stick aerial? Also the buffer causes some weird things with c-stick aerials. Sometimes it results in a neutral air with c-stick. LOL
- Let me deactivate the short hop aerial macro. I mean options are good, but it should be a toggle. I don't want this.


This is more of a personal preference but buffing aerials so much with auto cancel and nerfing shield as well was a bit too much imo. The game is so aerial focused. spamming aerials over and over again.


I could go on.... I wish I could enjoy Ultimate more.
 

Kalnet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,046
Sakurai is keeping this game alive because he did emphasized that it might not be possible to have the chance to get guests characters like Joker or maybe Banjo in future installments so he's keeping the ball rolling at the moment. I think he said this during his Smash focus E3 2019 video.
 

Laxoon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,833
I think I've heard a lot of people say over the course of other threads that they would prefer sequels to smash that preserved all the characters rather than something like a reboot with overhauled gameplay/new modes and less characters. I consider a reboot to be what the series needs, it's gotten really stale to actually play... but the character stuff is super hype not gonna lie. It's the biggest reason I still pay attention to it, my personal relationship with the game is a character-hype driven zombie. I own it, buy all the DLC and hardly play it. So yeah I get why people are very obsessed with more characters, it just works for them and they probably even enjoy playing the game unlike me.

It's hard to get mad at Nintendo too cause I see it as them giving huge fan service with these characters. I definitely would sacrifice a lot/most the characters for more solo modes/a total shake up in the gameplay department.
 
OP
OP
Blackquill

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
But they are getting every single patch you see buff and fixes to characters that need them, the balancing is pretty good for a game with 70+ characters and one of the best balanced games in modern fighting games, yes there are things that can improve but the balance is one of the better things of ultimate another thing most of Twitter clips are false propapanga some of them are real issues but many of them are excuses to poor spacing or timing.

There are really big problems, heavies are still too slow most of the time. They still haven't fould a proper balance between their flaws and their strengths. Ganondorf, who was hyped at the beginning of the game now is actually seen as one of the worst characters in the game, the reason, he is still one of the slowest character of the game with no projectile, his design is still flawed.

I could also talk about the patch that made Olimar hurtboxes bigger that his shield or Mewtwo tail that is so big, he can never space properly since he has long ass hurtbox behind everywhere.

There are problems with some characters honestly. Not all of them, the balance is actually quite good but it's not great either.
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,829
Orlando, FL
you realize the choice isn't "new characters or new modes" it's "new characters or nothing"?
This is the actual answer.

OP, you need to understand that a game as big as Smash has lots of different teams on it. One team is responsible for network play, another for animating, developing, and playtesting new characters, etc.

The team responsible for the single-player content in this game have likely moved on to a new project, leaving only the character development team behind. This new project could be anything, from a new game from that studio or maybe even an expansion of single-player content for Ultimate that has yet to be revealed.

The point is that the game continuously adding fighters has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of added single-player modes and such. The team remaining with Ultimate is just a fraction of the size it had during the peak of development, and they decided to focus on adding characters as that is a really good way to keep players engaged. That's all there is to it.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,685
I kind of agree with you here. As much as I enjoy new character announcements I have some major issues with the game.

- The online is terrible. The input lag even with good connection is absolutely garbage.
- The buffer system is ridiculous.
- c-stick aerials are so bad. Why do I have momentum with a c-stick aerial? Also the buffer causes some weird things with c-stick aerials. Sometimes it results in a neutral air with c-stick. LOL
- Let me deactivate the short hop aerial macro. I mean options are good, but it should be a toggle. I don't want this.


This is more of a personal preference but buffing aerials so much with auto cancel and nerfing shield as well was a bit too much imo. The game is so aerial focused. spamming aerials over and over again.


I could go on.... I wish I could enjoy Ultimate more.

C-stick aerials have drift because its a macro for analogue + direction instead of specifically an aerial input, and I agree its annoying.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
It's a bit of a tendency of not just fighting games but many other titles to fill up the game with a lot of "alternative content" so to speak (as in you choose a different character, car, weapon, etc. but hardly your experience will change too much because chances are you have your mains already). Black Ops 4 had a weak post-launch support but it had plenty of weapons instead. Forza games usually throw in a gazillion extra cars, most of which you'll never even touch because there's already hundreds of vehicles in the game. Most fighting games don't just throw in new rulesets, proper new game modes or exciting innovations, they prefer throwing in characters that often feel like the reskin of something existing. I understand these are the market trends and a lot of players want exactly this, but it's a bit of a shame most games focus on boosting the numbers but not really making the games more deep. Not that games like Smash Ultimate or Forza Horizon 4 lack depth, mind, but still.