Funny, I was just watching this video critique of the Raimi films and it was also shitting on MJ as a terrible person.
Did the op just watch this instead of the actual movies?
Funny, I was just watching this video critique of the Raimi films and it was also shitting on MJ as a terrible person.
They didn't. You can try but she is designed to push Peter, not be her own character who interacts with Peter. You do not understand this. They could make her the first ever self-made Billionaire and she wouldn't have agency within this movie.Yes it does, and she demonstrated her agency within the frames we saw.
Films require characters like these, her being a side-character and not being involved in Peter's main story thread does not make her a bad character.
Spider-Man 2 is way too cringy to watch today.
They didn't. You can try but she is designed to push Peter, not be her own character who interacts with Peter. You do not understand this. They could make her the first ever self-made Billionaire and she wouldn't have agency within this movie.
Why do you hate MJ for dating guys? Her thing with Harry is a dick move on Harry's part more than anything imo, since he knows Peter likes her too but just goes for it anyway. And MJ gets understandably frustrated with Peter in SM2, because he told her he didn't return her feelings at the end of SM1, after which she tried to move on with astronaut dude, only to have Peter keep trying to get close/pushing her away in 2.
Then she doesn't have agency if she is designed to flesh out Peter's story. You aren't making sense.No, she is designed to flesh out Peter's coming of age story by being one of the side characters in his story. That's all.
Some of you don't understand characters like this need to exist for world building to work, especially in film's about teenagers who have active social lives. Lots of moving parts, and side-characters need to exist.
She was a well fleshed out side-character.
Reminder everyone:
MJ in Homecoming is not Mary Jane Watson, she's a different character created for the movie and her real name is Michelle Jones. I kinda wish that they just went full on an just called her Mary Jane but eh not much we can do now.
Homecoming is also the first Spider-Man movie where the final battle didn't involve Peter having to rush off to save his girlfriend. That should be applauded given how Raimi's pretty much did that with all the female characters in his movies. The women in his movies only exist to either be saved or as a reward for the hero.
I have recently rewatched the movie and Michelle does has a lot of depth;
This is obviously going to be explored in future Spider-Man movies as Homecoming exist to set the stage and the universe that MCU Spider-Man operate in. Even the Raimi's Spider-Man movies did this as Peter didn't get the girl in Spider-Man 1 and their relationship would be explored, albeit badly, in 2 and 3.
- She's an outcast,
- She's a bookworm,
- Puts on a shield of a jokester to mask her loneliness,
- Is very smart,
- Has a crush on Peter but doesn't know how to tell him,
- This is my theory but I suspect that she knows that Peter is Spider-Man given that she knew that Peter was in the marching band and robotic club and dropped out, she also hangs very closely to Peter.
This is a ridiculous comment. Part of a film's purpose is absolutely to world build, I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Come on....
Not every character can be a main character.
She was his love interest in that film yes, but the film clearly showed her as a character intersecting and moving through Peter's coming of age story.
Again, characters like this are perfectly fine and indeed required.
She had enough agency on show for a side-character, she is shown as able, determined, interested. She was head of the group preparing the Homecoming dance, leader of the Decathlon team, someone who would call Peter on his shit due to her principles, etc...
If you're going to hold up Liz and Rami's MJ and compare them without context, sure, otherwise no.
she was not intended to be as much of a focus as MJ from Rami's films. MJ in Rami spanned all 3 movies, Liz is a side-character in the first MCU SM. Obviously MJ was more fleshed out, that doesn't mean Liz was a poor side-character.
Her only being seen when Peter is around doest mean she didn't have agency. She was not a main-character, and that's actually okay.
Agency reasoned above.
Liz didn't have agency because you only see her when Peter is around. You don't follow her, and her story is dependent on Peter. That's not agency. What does Liz do on screen that shows she has agency? Throws a party where the story centers it around Peter showing up to prove he knows Spider-Man? She is a capable team lead who leans on Peter to win? Does a late night swim at the pool to invite Peter to participate because HE needs to have fun? Tells Peter at the end that he should figure out his shit? She is designed to prop Peter up.
MJ was cute and said lines that resonated with the audience. It isn't fine because then the message of the story weaves through one character, and that makes side characters purely story pushers.
There is a reason why SM1 and 2 are valued so much because Raimi knew side characters need to embody the message he was telling just like Spider-Man. They all had to give up what they wanted the most.
I've never hated this word more.
You know what?
Yes. The first 3 Spider-Man movies were like a sip of water after slogging through a terrible desert. It's the most delicious water you think you've ever had.
Then you get back home and crack open a bottle of the good stuff and remember the taste of that terrible post-desert water and realize the awful truth.