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perfectchaos007

It's Happening
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Texas
It could be coincidence, especially since some of the Mario games released almost a year after the console released, but let me explain:

1. N64 & SM64
SM64 was a launch title for the N64 and was highly acclaimed for its groundbreaking 3D open world. Anyone over the age of 25 remembers how awe inspiring it was to run around Peaches Castle for the first time.
latest


Although the PS1 ended up outselling the N64, the N64 and SM64 were both critically acclaimed and considered a success


2. GCN & Mario Sunshine
After SM64, the fans were looking forward to the rumored SM128. What they got was a unique Mario game that was at worst a unique but ultimately mediocre Mario game, and at best a good Mario game that was ahead of its time. The GCN sold poorly and Sunshine was reviewed well below par for a Mario game.

3. Wii and Mario Galaxy 1&2
Yes, we all know the Wii was anchored its pack-in game "Wii Sports" but after the waggle fad wore off, it needed substance to keep the momentum going. Almost exactly 1 year after the console's launch, Nintendo released Super Mario Galaxy. Some say Galaxy, even to this day, is the best Mario game ever made as it somehow was able to match the innovation of the Wii itself. So, it should come as no surprise that the Wii continued to sell very well for the next 3 years after Galaxy. Oh, and for good measure Nintendo followed up Galaxy with a sequel on the Wii aptly titled Galaxy 2. Both Galaxy 1&2 were considered among the best Mario titles ever made and so it should come as no surprise the Wii was also one of the best selling Nintendo hardware units of all time


4. Wii U and Super Mario 3D World
Just like GCN owners were hoping for SM128, plenty of Wii U owners were praying for Super Mario Galaxy 3. Instead, they were treated to a juiced up version of Super Mario 3D land for 3DS. While both games were reviewed rather favorable, 3D World on Wii-U just lacked charm that surprisingly not even the introduction of cat Mario could bring. It was ultimately one of the more forgettable 3D Mario titles, and one that I think, if re-reviewed today, would get docked a bit for not standing the test of time. Mario 3D World was ultimately a below average if not forgettable 3D Mario title, and the Wii U was the worst selling Nintendo console since Virtual Boy.


5. Switch and Mario Odyssey
Fans got their first look at Mario Odyssey the same moment they got their first look at the Switch hardware as they were both shown in the Switch's release trailer. Rooftop party anyone? A home console that you could take anywhere was the theme, and fans responded positively. Other than the hardware itself, Odyssey received the some of the most buzz from that trailer. 7 months after the Switch's launch, Odyssey released with critical acclaim and a metascore that approaches the Galaxy titles. The Switch and Odyssey so far are both successful



There's definitely a correlation between a Nintendo console and the quality of its Mario title, but is it coincidental? Maybe. Discuss
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
Brazil
I have to disagree with you because 3D World is great. To be quite honest, I think I like it as much as I like Odyssey so far.
 

Jubbe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,779
Mario is a system seller? People like good games more than bad games? Wow this is some insightful stuff.
 
OP
OP
perfectchaos007

perfectchaos007

It's Happening
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Texas
weird way to write "the best 3D mario game up to its release date"
Yeah I figured that may be the most debatable part of my argument. I know it reviewed well, though not nearly as high as Galaxy 1, 2, or Odyssey. I enjoyed it for what it was at the time, but unlike the Galaxy titles I have no desire to play 3D World again. It was forgettable to me, but maybe I'm more alone on that opinion than I thought....
 

Fire Bocchi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,642
mario 64 94 sunshine 92. yeah thats so well below par

if you dont like the games thats fine, but dont try to bullshit us by pretending your opinion is a fact
 

Lord Azrael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
And what's your metric here? Your own opinion on each game? Because they are all over 90 on Metacritic. Your claims of Sunshine reviewing well below par and 3D World being below average are laughable.
 

MidiPour

Member
Oct 27, 2017
393
Texas
3D World was actually an amazing Greatest Hits Mario game that was misunderstood, it did enough to stand out from 3D Land. Even if I was a tad disappointed initially knowing the direction the devs went; from working on Land, and going from there to directly work on Worlds.
 

JomanC137

Member
Oct 27, 2017
290
That's an accurate description of 3D World, but no, it's more like the quality of Mario games correlates with the effort Nintendo puts on their respective platform, which are what made the Wii and Switch a success, they could certainly contribute but Nintendo's software library is too big to make such a conclusion
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
I think that Sunshine not being there at launch, and not being as significant of a release as Mario 64 was at the time directly harmed the Gamecube quite a big deal.

But really I think the Galaxy games did not impact the overall sales of the Wii to a significant degree and that 3D World regardless of how good it was or if it had been better for those who found it disappointing or not in the style they wanted would not have saved that sinking ship
 

MidiPour

Member
Oct 27, 2017
393
Texas
The correlation is dubious at best unless we see a break down of the hardware and software sales, the review aggregates for each respective game, along with meticulously gathering and synthesizing the general public reception of said games and hardwares online. :>
 

YukidaruPunch

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
143
Salvador, Brazil
It could be coincidence,
Yes! Yes, it could!

I think you just... pulled some random stats and correlations between things that aren't really that correlated.
Also, I don't think Galaxy 1 and 2 sold as well as they could, considering the platform. Didn't New Super Mario Bros Wii, a much tamer and safer take on the character and formula, sold a fuckton of times more?

There are much more broad reasons as to why things happened like they happened, methinks.
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
N64 wasn't a success

3D World is better than Sunshine
 

Chacranajxy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
905
That analysis completely falls apart with 3D World. Like... what? It's as though you had to write something to support your premise, knowing full well how absurd it was.
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,940
I think your overall hypothesis is off base (N64 was eaten up by PS1, though undoubtedly Mario helped it move units), but I see your point. Sunshine's aesthetic and concept got a ton of criticism at launch and didn't reach as many new gamers as 64. 3D World is great, but it was a sequel to a handheld game. It did feel like Nintendo wasn't 100% committed to the Wii U if they weren't going to release a game with the scope of Galaxy.
 

dickroach

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
953
New Super Mario Bros Wii sold wayyyy WAY more than Galaxy.
and yeah, 3D World is a masterpiece.
this is all rubbish.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
I actually want a port of 3D world to Switch. It needs the big audience it deserves and it's perfect with its multiplayer too.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Oct 26, 2017
397
Mario games set a high bar. None of the games mentioned were bad, but there is a hierarchy. Going by Metacritic its Sunshine < 3D World < 64 < Galaxy = Oddysey

so what's the metacritic number a 3d mario needs for its console to be sucessfull? as, apparently, low 90 isn't enough?

95 = success
92= failure

? lol

like, all reviewed fantastic in my eyes.
 

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,083
You're missing 3D Land. Which was quite the success, though the 3DS was only a modest success. Mario games move in line with their system, including 2D, 3D, and Kart.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
The N64 was not a success outside a few standout software sellers. And shitting on 3D World smh
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,091
I see no flaw. 3D world was boring. So was sunshine (and I've got my own pile of grievances with 64). Good theory.
 

LegendX48

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
I can kind of see that. Worst mario title on worst selling nintendo console (Wii U) makes sense.
 

Astorgh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
93
Sorry op. Can't see the relation you are mentioning.

Mario 64, a literal game changer, was released in a console that sold only 1/3 of its competition.

And 3D world was a pretty cool game, released in a console with less than half of N64's sales.

Well performing consoles doesn't always mean great games. It has more relation with the amount of content, than the quality of content. Wii U would've been a crazy success if it was otherwise.
 

Jubbe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,779
Maybe the correlation is that the games that are looked back on as being inferior are because less people played them because they were on unpopular consoles.
 

Darmik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
683
I think you'd really need to interpret their success in a very specific way in order for this to work.

Super Mario 64 is the definite system seller. Best selling game for the platform. But yet the Nintendo 64 overall got completely steamrolled. I'm not sure why this is supposed to be a vastly different story than the Gamecube.

The Wii was a super massive hit. But New Super Mario Bros was a much bigger Mario platformer for the system. Not critically but sales wise.

Both DS and 3DS had 3D Mario platformers too but I'm guessing you're excluding handhelds.

Besides all of the Mario platformers have overall been critically acclaimed titles. Even Sunshine.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,013
Lol. OP is reaching.

Mario helps but doesn't cause a system to be successful. The Wii's success was not because of Mario Galaxy and the Wii U's failure was not because of 3D World. They definitely help though.

I might have my timeline wrong but if I remember correctly the Wii U was already destined to fail long before that game came out. It could've been Odyssey and the Wii U wouldn't have magically had Switch sales.

EDIT: I'm wrong. It was one year in to it's life. The sad short life of the Wii U.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,724
Canada
I feel like people who talk about 3D World like this didn't really play it. Or are completely unaware of the critical and fan reception.
 

petran79

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
Greece
Nintendo revolutionised 2d games, but regarding Mario64, if you played 3d games, from FPS to flight simulators, on computers or arcade games, it was not as impressive.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,483
The arguments in the 3D World section are such empty fluff. "I think if the game was re-reviewed today, everyone would share my opinion based on absolutely nothing whatsoever" Alright dawg.
 

CanUKlehead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,390
I like the Mario 3D games more than the others, actually. 3D World was amazing.

Not really sure there's much to OP's theory, tbh. The link just isn't there; Nintendo consoles, one can argue, can be just about their own games, but not just their Mario games.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
im sorry but i cannot take you seriously after all that balooney you wrote about 3D world.

Nice try, but don't lie to us, to yourself, to miyamoto himself by slandering 3D world like that so your phony theory can work.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,696
Australia. Nintendo Land
It could be coincidence, especially since some of the Mario games released almost a year after the console released, but let me explain:

2. GCN & Mario Sunshine
After SM64, the fans were looking forward to the rumored SM128. What they got was a unique Mario game that was at worst a unique but ultimately mediocre Mario game, and at best a good Mario game that was ahead of its time. The GCN sold poorly and Sunshine was reviewed well below par for a Mario game.

Below par really....didn't it get a 92 review????

Yeah. So this game was great.
 

Darmik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
683
I think 3D World (or a direct sequel) would do well on Switch too.

It's a perfect 'share the joy' game.
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,137
Portland, Oregon
Why didn't you include the NES and SNES and the correlation between their success and their Mario titles? Both of those consoles would still hold true to your theory.