I hope with PS5, Platinum Trophies become mandatory for all titles

Jawmuncher · May 14, 2019

Just now the Castlevania Anniversary Collection Trophy List was posted
(Link Here: https://www.exophase.com/game/castlevania-anniversary-collection-psn/trophies/).
It's not that bad of a list, but for there's no platinum. I've learned this is due to Developer Discretion, but I find it odd that Sony hasn't just adopted MS's strategy of having all games be valued the same.

The trophy system in my eyes is already kind of weird, and i've complained about it all the way back with Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes (That game and many others don't have platinum trophies either). Considering the ranking of trophies is all over the place (There was a time where I had less overall trophies than someone else, yet had a higher trophy level than them). The inclusion of platinums as mandatory for all titles wouldn't destroy the trophy system. It would just give consumers more value which isn't a negative last I checked.

EDIT: While catering to Trophy/Achievement hunters isn't something needed to be successful. I feel like this would be an overall positive change. With the only negative being the potential addition of Q&A for titles needing it. Which I understand would be a bigger issue for smaller developers but I feel there has to be some sort of middle ground to make the process easier overall.

Jessie · May 14, 2019

I hope they seamlessly integrate PS4 BC, particularly with digital exclusive games. Trophies and PS+ freebies have some really weird continuity between PS4 and PS3/Vita.

Cess007 · May 14, 2019

I remember someone saying that Platinums are left to Dev choice, and that some Devs rather not have a Platinum because increases checklist/QA time

DGenerator · May 14, 2019

I'd rather trophies just done away if people are going to base value on a game's merit on an arbitrary list of objectives that are an external force outside of the game.

Squarealex · May 14, 2019

Platinum trophy doesn't exist on "inde game" or "cheap game" (or Retro) since PS3. I doubt they change.

But yeah, can be a "strategic" or a reason to buy a game because "they have one platinum".
I'm surprised Crash/UC Collection/PS2 HD Remaster/Spyro they have 3 platinum (and most of them are easy)

Weiss · May 14, 2019

I have no idea why anyone puts any merit into trophies.

I platinumed Bloodborne and Gravity Rush because they were fun games to play and I wanted to explore all their content, not so I could get a little jpeg on my PS4.

Acorn · May 14, 2019

The trophy system has always sucked imo. Too many tiers, what one dev thinks is worth a gold another might think it's a bronze and the player thinks silver.

Should just have been numeric like achievements were imo. Oh and I agree with the platinum stuff, what decides if a game gets a plat or not? Price?

DanGo · May 14, 2019

Cess007 said:
I remember someone saying that Platinums are left to Dev choice, and that some Devs rather not have a Platinum because increases checklist/QA time

Bingo.

Leave it up to the devs.

ascii42 · May 14, 2019

On X360, XBLA games had 200 points, retail games had 1000. I don't remember the ratio of trophy value between games with platinums and games without, but I think it was similar. For those that don't know:
Bronze =1 point
Silver = 2 point
Gold = 6 point
Platinum = 12 point

Musubi · May 14, 2019

Um... what is this garbage? The Rondo of Blood and SotN collection on PS4 has a platinum but this 8 game collection doesn't?

AxeVince · May 14, 2019

It is now up to the dev to chose if they want to have a platinum (early during PS4 era it became like this, before you needed to have a specific length).
As mentioned, the more trophies you have, the more risks to see your build rejected because all need to be awardable for your game to go to sale.

Cess007 · May 14, 2019

Found this: https://kotaku.com/developer-releases-vita-game-with-easy-trophies-so-a-l-1827936257

Al-Ghanim explained the only requirement to get a platinum trophy into his game was including a certain number of other, lesser trophies. Bronze, silver, and gold, each intended to correspond to the level of difficulty involved in earning them, have a point value, and once a certain threshold is crossed the game is eligible for a platinum trophy

It seems that to get your game elegible to have Platinum, you need to have a certain amount of other trophies ranks. I can see why some Devs would rather no deal with the extra work that requires

Deleted member 1003 · May 14, 2019

I love trophies but I would rather if the whole achievement/trophy system was retired.

Alucrid · May 14, 2019

if we still get reward points for trophies sure otherwise doesn't matter to me

Squarealex said:
Platinum trophy doesn't exist on "inde game" or "cheap game" (or Retro) since PS3. I doubt they change.

But yeah, can be a "strategic" or a reason to buy a game because "they have one platinum".
I'm surprised Crash/UC Collection/PS2 HD Remaster/Spyro they have 3 platinum (and most of them are easy)

what? there's some stupid mayo game that has a plat.

Saber · May 14, 2019

I've thought about this for a while, but believe that Sony should have some sort of "Platinum seal of Approval" to give games that deserve a platinum. It could be as simple as meeting certain requirements like possibly at least 50 total trophies. A system put in place so games that cost less than $5 and take less then 10 to beat don't exist. Overall this is all just my thoughts and opinions, feel free to share your thoughts.

Jawmuncher · May 14, 2019

AxeVince said:
It is now up to the dev to chose if they want to have a platinum (early during PS4 era it became like this, before you needed to have a specific length).
As mentioned, the more trophies you have, the more risks to see your build rejected because all need to be awardable for your game to go to sale.

Cess007 said:
Found this: https://kotaku.com/developer-releases-vita-game-with-easy-trophies-so-a-l-1827936257

Interesting. I still wonder how having the platinum would make the QA bump up that much though. I mean we still see glitched trophies and the like all the time afterall. Is having the trigger for all trophies linked to the final platinum trigger that much of an additional resource?

Adamska · May 14, 2019

Eh, I don't think every game has to have a platinum, but I fully admit to not be fully aware of what exactly makes a game not eligible for a plat. And, in the end, it's not like it takes more work to earn a platinum trophy than to earn every trophy, it's literally the same.

Hanbei · May 14, 2019

Squarealex said:
Platinum trophy doesn't exist on "inde game" or "cheap game" (or Retro) since PS3. I doubt they change.

There are literally hundreds of indie games with a platinum trophy. I suggest you visit exophase.com and see for yourself.

Adding a platinum trophy or not has always been up to the dev, not Sony (on PS4 at least).

Hippopuncher12 · May 14, 2019

Agreed, it's especially weird when a game comes out on both Xbox and PS4 and the Xbox version has 1000 achievement score but no Plat on the PS version. Just give them the same list, it makes no sense.

Ascenion · May 14, 2019

Eh, just switch over to a level system full stop. Trophies are already bullshit. Each trophy technically has a gamer score which is tied to experience to level up. Platinum is just an extra XP boost for and a status thing rather than making any actual sense. You should just hope they revamp the whole thing. They took a simple concept (high score, every little bit helps) and fucked it up.

Cess007 · May 14, 2019

Jawmuncher said:
Interesting. I still wonder how having the platinum would make the QA bump up that much though. I mean we still see glitched trophies and the like all the time afterall. Is having the trigger for all trophies linked to the final platinum trigger that much of an additional resource?

As someone who works in QA, I can tell you that yes, it bumps the work a lot.

You gotta make sure the Trophies popup correctly, with a different set of scenarios (what if you died just as you get the item/thing you need for a trophy? Did I get the trophy?), and with a lot of variables. Worse are trophies related to finishing games, you gotta finish the game in all difficulties with a lot of scenarios (what if I skip this optional boss, or mission? What if do this missions out of order) too check the trophy popups correctly.

And this is my experience, while working only on the mobile area. I can imagine the variables are much worse in the console games.

Brazil · May 14, 2019

You have my hammer, Jaw. Finding out that a huge indie title or something doesn't have a Platinum trophy is weirdly deflating.

Dullahan · May 14, 2019

Freaking agreed. This is just damn annoying.

SunhiLegend · May 14, 2019

I mean sure trophies are cool if you're into that sort of thing, but I'd rather just leave it to the devs to decide if that is the case rather than having it mandatory, even though I've put hundreds of hours into some games I haven't got a single platinum this gen, it's not something that adds any value for me.

Jawmuncher · May 14, 2019

Cess007 said:
As someone who works in QA, I can tell you that yes, it bumps the work a lot.

You gotta make sure the Trophies popup correctly, with a different set of scenarios (what if you died just as you get the item/thing you need for a trophy? Did I get the trophy?), and with a lot of variables. Worse are trophies related to finishing games, you gotta finish the game in all difficulties with a lot of scenarios (what if I skip this optional boss, or mission? What if do this missions out of order) too check the trophy popups correctly.

And this is my experience, while working only on the mobile area. I can imagine the variables are much worse in the console games.

My perspective on this is definitely limited, but I appreciate you giving some clarification. You're likely right that the console side of things does make it harder. Which makes me wonder if there would ever be a way for it to be implemented easier in the future with new hardware. Since i'm assuming that plays a part in how things are locked/unlocked and can be processed.

TheWickedSoul · May 14, 2019

yeah I agree, one reason I don't buy alot of indies on PS4, gladly will take the 1k on xbox.

Hamchan · May 14, 2019

I don't know why a Dev wouldn't give their game a platinum trophy. It's like they're self-declaring that game ain't on the same level as "bigger" games.

LiquidSolid · May 14, 2019

ascii42 said:
On X360, XBLA games had 200 points, retail games had 1000. I don't remember the ratio of trophy value between games with platinums and games without, but I think it was similar. For those that don't know:
Bronze =1 point
Silver = 2 point
Gold = 6 point
Platinum = 12 point

Those values are wrong, it's actually:
Bronze: 15 points
Silver: 30 points
Gold: 90 points
Platinum: 180 points

Full trophy lists typically have ~1200 points, while small lists have ~300 points.

Anyway, I mostly agree with you, OP, because getting a small trophy list for games like Papers Please, Hitman and Resident Evil 4 is a bummer (and enough to make me skip that RE4 port). But I do see the value of the small trophy lists for really short games with low replayability. I like playing those short games if they offer a unique experience but getting a plat for only playing them an hour or so doesn't feel right.

Soft Insubordination · May 14, 2019

I wasn't aware that games that had trophies were made without a Platinum "Good job, you got all of the trophies" trophy. Now I'm wondering how many games I have that don't have a Platinum.

ascii42 · May 14, 2019

LiquidSolid said:
Those values are wrong, it's actually:
Bronze: 15 points
Silver: 30 points
Gold: 90 points
Platinum: 180 points

Full trophy lists typically have ~1200 points, while small lists have ~300 points.

Anyway, I mostly agree with you, OP, because getting a small trophy list for games like Papers Please, Hitman and Resident Evil 4 is a bummer (and enough to make me skip that RE4 port). But I do see the value of the small trophy lists for really short games with low replayability. I like playing those short games if they offer a unique experience but getting a plat for only playing them an hour or so doesn't feel right.

The relative values are correct though, which is what I meant. I could have said that better though:
1 silver = 2 bronze
1 gold = 3 silver = 6 bronze
1 platinum = 2 gold = 6 silver = 12 bronze

Deleted member 9971 · May 14, 2019

Never cared for trophies only platty ones i got are the walking dead, tales of borderlands and nier automata. Wich all were easy to get and just playin the game through. Should be up to devs choice imo not forced.

MentalZer0 · May 14, 2019

The platinum trophy is the only reason PS trophy system is better than anything else, imo... I feel like I'm earning something after complete a game, and not just a stupid number. Makes no sense these games with no platinum trophy.

DOT_mjo · May 14, 2019

Agreed, but I also hope the trophy system is abolished because it subconsciously changes the way in which we are playing video games.

Curufinwe · May 14, 2019

Hamchan said:
I don't know why a Dev wouldn't give their game a platinum trophy. It's like they're self-declaring that game ain't on the same level as "bigger" games.

Lots of them aren't on that level. Danger Zone and Disc Jam only have 12 trophies because they are small games.

Apathy · May 14, 2019

Weiss said:
I have no idea why anyone puts any merit into trophies.

I platinumed Bloodborne and Gravity Rush because they were fun games to play and I wanted to explore all their content, not so I could get a little jpeg on my PS4.

Maybe I'm just an old man, but I play a game to play a game, not for a platinum. That's literally been the least important thing ever in the reasons to play a game

Hey Please · May 14, 2019

OP, do these games' Xbox version feature the whole 1000 Achievement points? If so, then for the sake for parity this should be addressed.

Cess007 said:
As someone who works in QA, I can tell you that yes, it bumps the work a lot.

You gotta make sure the Trophies popup correctly, with a different set of scenarios (what if you died just as you get the item/thing you need for a trophy? Did I get the trophy?), and with a lot of variables. Worse are trophies related to finishing games, you gotta finish the game in all difficulties with a lot of scenarios (what if I skip this optional boss, or mission? What if do this missions out of order) too check the trophy popups correctly.

And this is my experience, while working only on the mobile area. I can imagine the variables are much worse in the console games.

Isn't it the same philosophy for Achievements as well?

Ravage · May 14, 2019

Yes I agree it's really annoying and makes absolutely no sense. Sony needs to address this.

Kagoshima_Luke · May 14, 2019

Yeah, requiring 1000 GS for all games was one of the few things MSFT got right out of the gate this gen.

SlasherMcGirk · May 14, 2019

Everyone around here says that they don't need them or they aren't necessary but they clearly are to some people. Having them doesn't hurt anyone's experience.

lobdale · May 14, 2019

I hope with PS5 they cancel trophies

FRS1987 · May 14, 2019

If trophies are to stick around, i rather they get rid of multiplayer/online trophies. Some games are DOA with no communities or communities that die fast making online trophies impossible. I say keep it strictly offline and multiplayer online games should not have any trophies, otherwise team no trophies.

MentalZer0 · May 14, 2019

SlasherMcGirk said:
Everyone around here says that they don't need them or they aren't necessary but they clearly are to some people. Having them doesn't hurt anyone's experience.

Trophies and Achievements are challenges and it can prove that you REALLY played the game. Some titles even have the same system inside... GTA 5 for example. How could that hurt the experience? Based on my experience it actually improves, at least for me.

100%TrophyMaster · May 14, 2019

lobdale said:
I hope with PS5 they cancel trophies

Look deeply into your avatar's eyes—it craves and wants platinum trophies to go into next gen. All dogs want this

Hippopuncher12 · May 14, 2019

lobdale said:
I hope with PS5 they cancel trophies

This mindset really makes no sense to me, ignore them then, but yes let's take something away that others actually enjoy.

LiquidSolid · May 14, 2019

ascii42 said:
The relative values are correct though, which is what I meant. I could have said that better though:
1 silver = 2 bronze
1 gold = 3 silver = 6 bronze
1 platinum = 2 gold = 6 silver = 12 bronze

Ah, yeah that's right. It was adding "point" next to the values that made it seem like you were talking about the specific values.

Anyways, one of the things I'd like Sony to add to trophies next gen is blanking out trophies that are no longer possible to get. Like when EA closes down the online servers for a FIFA game, all the online trophies should be blanked out and you should still be able to get the plat or 100% if you get every other trophy in the game. Or another example is when Square Enix split FFXV Comrades off into a separate installer with its own trophy list, it was no longer possible to get the Comrades DLC trophies in the FFXV list without jumping through a bunch of hoops (I think you need to buy the Royal version, use the Comrades DLC code and then change your network settings so it doesn't update to the latest version). So unless you've already got those trophies or are willing to jump through those hoops, the most you can get is 90% trophy completion on FFXV.

CrocoDuck · May 14, 2019

I hope they implement trophies for PS1 classics. And we still can't sort trophy title games in alphabetical order unlike the PS3.

Cess007 · May 14, 2019

Jawmuncher said:
My perspective on this is definitely limited, but I appreciate you giving some clarification. You're likely right that the console side of things does make it harder. Which makes me wonder if there would ever be a way for it to be implemented easier in the future with new hardware. Since i'm assuming that plays a part in how things are locked/unlocked and can be processed.

Could be, but I honestly can't see neither MS or Sony spending too much time on finding new ways to improve/streamline this. As the choice falls on the Devs on Sony's case, I don't imagine a lot of improvements would be made on this.

i-Lo said:
Isn't it the same philosophy for Achievements as well?

Yes. But with MS, they don't have to worry to have an X amount of achievements to qualify for an extra achievement. It's still work of course; but I guess not as much as having to have (and test) X amount of bronce, silver and gold to qualify for a Platinum.

Freezasaurus · May 15, 2019

To be fair, if a game only has like 10 or so trophies, there's no reason it should have a plat.

stillwrapped · May 15, 2019

I hope I have the option to completely turn them off and never even see so much as a list of them.

Eppcetera · May 15, 2019

I'd be fine if they got rid of platinum trophies. Video game trophies are dumb.

I hope with PS5, Platinum Trophies become mandatory for all titles

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