I just can’t agree with anybody that calls the Nintendo 64 a failure.......

[daTRUballin]

Something that bothers me is when people claim the N64 was a failure. Compared to the PlayStation, sure. It was a relative failure. The N64's 32 million units sold versus the PlayStation's ~100-105 million units pale in comparison, but I feel like people tend to only look at the numbers when determining whether a console is a failure or a success, including the N64.

There are several reasons why I don't believe the N64 was a failure. Despite not selling nearly as well as the PlayStation, it still sold more than the Saturn and was a very popular console in its heyday (at least in the US). If you wanted to experience local multiplayer on console, the N64 was the console to go to. It was basically the king of console multiplayer during its gen. It was also home to some of the most revolutionary games of all time like Super Mario 64, Goldeneye, and Ocarina of Time. It was definitely a culturally relevant console during its heyday, and I don't think anybody can deny this. Even if it didn't reach the same heights the PlayStation did.

A lot of people are going to point at the console's poor third party support, and yes, it is true that the third party support was pretty abysmal compared to the PlayStation's which is why the library was so small. It did have some great overlooked gems though. A lot of people would say this was the point where Nintendo started falling behind the competition, but I would say the GameCube is when Nintendo started truly falling behind. As I said in another thread before, the N64 was when the cracks first started showing. The GameCube was when the cracks burst open. While I do agree that the N64 was the start of Nintendo's troubles, what with all the consequences of going with cartridges instead of CDs and the loss of third party support, but it was still a very popular console. The GameCube's third party support was better, but I think it was in a far more dire situation than the N64 was in.

I do admit that the N64 is a very nostalgic console for me and it's probably my favorite console ever, so maybe my bias is getting in the way of things a little bit, but I feel like some people don't look at the bigger picture when claiming the console was a failure and only look at its number of units sold compared to the PlayStation. I also have similar thoughts about the original Xbox in regards to when people call it a failure, but that's a different discussion for another day.

Anybody agree with me on this? I'm very interested in reading your thoughts and opinions on this subject.

 

[Mona]

The games alone make it not a failure

both Rare and Nintendo were killing it

 

[Deleted member 1413]

I thought it had done more than that, hmm.

But, sure, it's not.
Similar to the PSP which has actually sold more than the 3DS so far but it couldn't compare to the DS behemoth.

 

[Shroki]

At the time, it was definitely a disappointment coming off the SNES and NES, but relative to GameCube or Wii U, it was certainly a sales and marketing success.

In hindsight: The system had many classic games and commands respect. At the time, the software lulls were huge and the lack of Japanese support really hurt their ability to compete with Sony.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

The N64 wasn't a failure.

The Gamecube though...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

The Nintendo 64 is one of the best consoles of all time and also happens to be the console that converted me from a hardcore Sega fanboy into a multiplatform gamer.

It brought first person shooters to consoles
It revolutionised 3D gaming on console
It still to this day has the best wrestling games ever made
It popularised couch multiplayer gaming
It was Rare at the peak of their powers
It was the console where Mario Kart started to really grow in to the franchise we know it as today

Just like the Dreamcast, the library was about quality, not quantity.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

The thing about N64 is it actually held out pretty well compared to SNES in North America. It still lost to PS1, but it actually wasn't really a failure in NA.

The rest of the world is where it didn't do as well. Almost 2/3s of its sales came from NA I think. And in Japan Saturn actually beat the N64 iirc.

 

[Renna Hazel]

In the states it sold nearly as well as SNES, but PS expanded the market so much that Nintendo lost a ton of marketshare. It also sold really bad in Japan.

With that said, N64 is the best gaming console of all time. I wonder if the Switch can surpass it. It's off to a better start.

 

[headspawn]

They gave up the console market and accidentally birthed PlayStation by their missteps.

Not only that it was also the beginning of the strangled 3rd party relations that has been a thing for about 21 years now.

 

[ShinkuTachi]

Eh, tbh, the only Nintendo consoles I'd call a commercial failure are the Virtual Boy and the Wii U.
As far as the N64 goes, something not doing as well as its predecessor doesn't necessarily make it a "failure." Not doing "as well" and "failing" are two entirely different things.

 

[Shroki]

Blame Yamauchi.

The man's arrogance, insistence in high licensing fees and stubborn refusal to move away from cartridges are the biggest reason Nintendo ceded so much ground to Sony.

 

[Jon Carter]

It was a success in North America, a bomb in Japan and a disappointment in Europe. It definitely was culturally relevant though, but even without the comparison with the PS1, it still didn't do very well overall.

 

[scottbeowulf]

They gave up the console market and accidentally birthed PlayStation by their missteps.

Click to shrink...

This. And I just never could get into this console. I've owned almost everything from nes up but the N64 was always a weird one for me. Didn't like the controller, the terrible choice to go cartridge, and the lack of games that I wanted to play at the time. I was at an age that more adult orientated games were starting to draw me in and the N64 just didn't cut it. In my mind it will forever be the cheap feeling, greasy controller console that kids could play free at McDonald's.

 

[Aroll]

Depends on how you define failure.

N64 was right in my wheelhouse of my teenage years, and since online hadn't blown up to anything really yet, the local multiplayer aspects of games like Goldeneye were just epic. The console had a lot of really great, amazing, games. So sure, content wise, it was awesome.

But...

- The controller was not a well designed controller
- It sold SIGNIFICANTLY less than the SNES
- It had WAY LESS games than the SNES.

It's not that it's a relative failure compared to PS1. It's a failure compared to Nintendo's prior systems. Plus, their handhelds were still killing it.

I think it's one of those things where, the games and such were epic, ground breaking, and industry changing, but the hardware itself wasn't a good match. It's the case, to me, of great games, but unappealing hardware. It was the best case scenario sort of thing for the Wii U. If Wii U had the lineup that N64 had, it would have hit 30 mil. But, if you have an appealing system and a lineup like that (IE, see Switch), 30 mil is just the starting point.

But yeah, it's tough because N64 had so many great and amazing games. But, it also at the time was the lowest point for Nintendo's consoles. Then it got worse with GCN before they bounced back with Wii, then got worse again with Wii U before Switch.

In addition, N64 was basically the mistake console. Because PS1 should ahve basically been the N64 and Sony and Nintendo should have always worked together. But they bungled that partnership and the N64 was born.

 

[HeySeuss]

So your argument is that it sold better than Saturn and third party support wasn't as bad as GameCube.

Despite my love for just about everything Nintendo, they shit the bed with their direction of the N64 and created a rivalry in Sony rather than a partnership that would have cornered the market and would have squashed the Xbox before it even started. 32 million in sales coming off of the SNES is a failure. Their arrogant ways of bullying third parties was a failure that they are still trying to overcome today. Their cartridge based media was a failure which continued to their next console.

So while it had excellent games, it was a failure.

 

[Djawed]

The games alone make it not a failure

both Rare and Nintendo were killing it

Click to shrink...

They were also the only ones.

 

[SuperBlank]

Seems less of a failure in retrospect given how many seminal titles it provided, and the "failures" future consoles would prove to be, but it really lost a lot of Nintendo's favour and standing in the industry.

However it seems more like a catalyst for future failures Nintendo didn't learn well enough from than any sort of catastrophic failure in and of itself.

 

[Deleted member 249]

The N64 wasn't a failure, but it wasn't necessarily a success. Relative to the PlayStation, and the damage done to Nintendo's stature, and the performance of their previous consoles, it was, however, an utter, dismal flop, and the effects of that are still continued to be felt to this day.

 

[Slappy White]

It was in no way a failure. It just wasn't a massive success. It was a fantastic second console to own back in the day.

 

[Poimandres]

The NES sold 62 million
The SNES sold 49 million
The N64 sold 33 million

Is that a success? No, not really. By Nintendo's own measures, and especially in relation to the market leader.

You might call it a success based on the games... But then the Dreamcast, Saturn, Wii U, Gamecube etc could also be see as successful so...

 

[NinjaScooter]

It made a lot of money for Nintendo but it cratered a lot of their worldwide marketshare and destroyed a lot of relationships with third parties.

 

[Deleted member 2793]

I love the Nintendo 64 and it may be my favorite console of all time, but it's hard to not see it as a failure to Nintendo. They lost the third party support forever outside of the portable line with it (they had complete domination with the NES and SNES) and gave birth to their biggest rival, the Playstation.

The N64 actually made a profit for Nintendo, but I'm pretty sure they weren't happy with the results they got. That doesn't make it a bad platform quality-wise, the best software in the N64 holds better in the eyes of the public than most of the other games at the time -- just look at how popular Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are until today.

 

[freeradical]

Didnt realise that it was thought of as a failure. Those hardware numbers are solid in their own right.
And the games. So good.

 

[Fuchsia]

I mean you listed a lot of what was wrong with it OP. But like you've also said, a lot of the best games of all time on that system. Only a failure in a certain sense of the word.

Compared to other nintendo system sales, maybe... But in terms of overall quality of entertainment, it had a ton going for it.

And I know people hate the controller but I actually love it. Iconic.

Can't wait for the N64 Mini.

 

[Phediuk]

They lost 80% of their Japanese market share and virtually all 3rd parties abandoned them for the Playstation. That is the definition of failure.

 

[Hekku Takku]

I loved the N64. It didn't have much in third party support but so many gems on that system just from Nintendo and Rare.

And Extreme-G is one of my favorite racers.

 

[Jon Carter]

Worth reminding that we think of the SNES as much more successful than it was in terms of systems sold. It only sold 49.10 million units. That was also a big drop from the NES (61.91 million).

 

[Slime Stack]

This guy on twitter got super triggered on how the N64 is the most overrated console of all time simply because I mentioned the Mario 64 has aged well.

 

[daTRUballin]

So your argument is that it sold better than Saturn and third party support wasn't as bad as GameCube.

Despite my love for just about everything Nintendo, they shit the bed with their direction of the N64 and created a rivalry in Sony rather than a partnership that would have cornered the market and would have squashed the Xbox before it even started. 32 million in sales coming off of the SNES is a failure. Their arrogant ways of bullying third parties was a failure that they are still trying to overcome today. Their cartridge based media was a failure which continued to their next console.

So while it had excellent games, it was a failure.

Click to shrink...

Well, no. I acknowledged that the GameCube's third party support was better, but I think the GameCube was when Nintendo started truly falling behind the competition in terms of relevance.

 

[JusDoIt]

It was a business failure, but that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile console. I don't think Nintendo took Sony seriously and thought they could just coast on the strength of their first party output.

 

[Phendrift]

Ocarina and Mario 64 revolutionizing the industry saved the system from being looked at as a failure. Thank god it had those amazing games, the shitty controller and outdated cartridges did it no favors.

 

[Aters]

A generation grew up with "Nintendos", another grew up with "Playstations", the change happened with N64. Yeah it is a failure. It palesnext to its competitor, it pales compared to its predecessor.

 

[Kriegshand]

Well, no. I acknowledged that the GameCube's third party support was better, but I think the GameCube was when Nintendo started truly falling behind the competition in terms of relevance.

Click to shrink...

The gamecube had to pay for the misstep the N64 was. The goodwill was lost.

 

[Notaskwid]

It sold badly compared to the SNES too.

 

[hersheyfan]

In a vacuum, yes, N64 was not a failure. Although the PS1 saw explosive success in comparison, many fantastic games were released for it, and I look back on it fondly.

But when you consider that in the previous generation, Nintendo was essentially top dog in terms of console gaming, and Sony was a complete non-entity, getting beaten handily by the upstart newcomer has to have been disappointing. They left the door open by stubbornly clinging to cartridge media, and Sony capitalized.

 

[NinjaScooter]

Worth reminding that we think of the SNES as much more successful than it was in terms of systems sold. It only sold 49.10 million units. That was also a big drop from the NES (61.91 million).

Click to shrink...

The numbers for those earlier systems really put into perspective how much Sony changed and expanded the market beyond anything that had come before selling 100 million PSOnes and 140 million PS2s.

 

[Phediuk]

Also, total game sales were down by like 2/3 compared to the SNES.

The N64 was a massive blunder, period.

 

[Squarehard]

It wasn't a failure, but it wasn't a smashing success neither.

The important thing for me was that I enjoyed it, and that's all that really matters in the end.

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

Compared to SNES, the N64 was a huge stumble for Nintendo. They lost a tremendous amount of third party support, and got their clock cleaned by Sony.

The library was pretty good overall, but severely lacking in the number of quality games compared to SNES. I had fun with it, but I'm not going to sugar coat it like it was on the same level of their previous consoles.

 

[ilfait]

Their cartridge based media was a failure which continued to their next console.

Click to shrink...

This was a success in my eyes. I'm glad that PS1 used CDs, and I'm glad that N64 used carts. Both forms of media had their benefits and gave each console and its best games a strong identity. I like that Nintendo cared about load times, even if that wasn't their only intention.

 

[daTRUballin]

Seems less of a failure in retrospect given how many seminal titles it provided, and the "failures" future consoles would prove to be, but it really lost a lot of Nintendo's favour and standing in the industry.

However it seems more like a catalyst for future failures Nintendo didn't learn well enough from than any sort of catastrophic failure in and of itself.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I gotta say I fully agree with what you said here. I guess this was my whole point.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

They were also the only ones.

Click to shrink...

Which is complete nonsense because the N64 has an amazing third party library and enjoyed support from most major non-Japanese publishers.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Their cartridge based media was a failure which continued to their next console.

Click to shrink...

...GameCube used cartridges? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[hersheyfan]

This was a success in my eyes. I'm glad that PS1 used CDs, and I'm glad that N64 used carts. Both forms of media had their benefits and gave each console and its best games a strong identity. I like that Nintendo cared about load times, even if that wasn't their only intention.

Click to shrink...

Their real intentions however (countering piracy, and controlling the production) is what caused all the third parties to jump ship though (costs were through the roof to make n64 games vs. PS1's cd media). Load times are a drop in the bucket compared to what Nintendo lost in exchange.

 

[Vadara]

The N64 wasn't a failure.

The Gamecube though...

Click to shrink...

The system that game us Melee, F-Zero GX, and Metroid Prime ain't no failure, bub.

 

[BigTaffy]

As far as quantity of games is concerned, it was a big failure compared to SNES. I really missed all the JRPGs we were getting. That generation, they all went to the PlayStation.

However the games it did get were phenomenal (mainly just first party games and Rare games).

 

[Bishop89]

Sorry you lost me at King of local multiplayer.

I mean yeh it had gems like Goldeneye, Mario party, smash, but this pales in comparison to what was available on the PS1.

 

[Servbot24]

It's probably my least favorite Nintendo console, and the sales are certainly uninspiring at best. Ocarina, Majora and Mario 64 are all-time greats. I personally had a ton of fun with Smash Bros. There's a couple other decent games, but overall the lineup is extremely lacking compared to most other consoles.

Doesn't help that I don't like Golden Eye and think that Mario Kart 64 is worst in the series.

 

[HeySeuss]

...GameCube used cartridges? Or am I reading this wrong?

Click to shrink...

No I mean they were behind using cartridges on the N64 and then tried to get cute with the optical discs with smaller space than standard DVDs. Prolly could've said that better.

 

[Htown]

You can't really call it a failure when you look at all the actual console failures that came out around that time.

We're talking about a generation that saw like.. the 3DO and the Jaguar. Even the Sega Saturn sold like 1/3 as many machines as the N64.