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I just fought off the urge to punch a complete stranger in the head

Nov 19, 2017
398
Nothing that transpires between a dude wearing a Trump shirt and a random person in an Indian restaurant is going to move the needle on fascism. Now we're just getting sensationalist.
I'm well aware of that fact. Like I said, I'm simply saying that the OP's angry response is understandable. I don't think he's a bad person for feeling how he did. Thinking about how punching the guy is going to affect fascism as an overall movement in the US is a logical argument. OP admits to having an emotional reaction in the moment. There's a difference between the two. No one is completely rational all the time.

And anyway, it's more that I find your overall attitude to be too easy on the idea of fascism. You tell yourself it could never happen here (or wherever you are) for comfort, I assume? For me, personally, and learning what I have about what fascism can lead to, any amount of it is downright scary to me. Again, I'm simply saying that I can understand the OP's anger. He isn't unreasonable or crazy for his response.
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
So what is your point exactly? If we don't want to attack the guy in the shirt we're supporting fascism? If we don't actually attack him?

Or just that violence is a normal reaction to someone who you believe supports fascism?

The bottom line is that the root of all this has to be handled through a peaceful process. Moving on to violence as a solution is pretty tough to come back from at all levels. It's not a normal reaction and the people who think the guy got what he was fishing for are probably right.
a: lol. Brush up on your history

B: Feeling angry at someone that supports fascism is a perfectly normal and valid response.

No, I agree with your post on what the shirt represents.

But I am assuming you've probably seen people like this before and haven't punched them. So there's a reason other posters are adverse to the idea of hitting this guy if he isn't immediatly trying to is instigate anything.
I already mentioned that I wasn't defending punching him in the face. From the start I've been mentioning the fact that the anger is perfectly fine and natural without not giving a single defense for punching them in the face

If it isn't clear, personally, I would not, for a myriad of reasons, strike at the guy. An average dude would be able to break me in half. I even think punching a random in the face might not be the correct way to go about things! Even if just for the fact that the negative consequences for you will far outweigh the positives.

The OP was right to feel angry, and if he socked the guy in the face, I'd give it the worlds biggest shrug and definitely not vilify him. That direct response was at the fact that that poster was pretending that the guy wasn't actually 'doing anything' when making a political statement is, in fact, an action.

Apologies if I was a bit too rough earlier, this is a sensitive subject.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,203
I think that when you attack someone and try to cite the message on his shirt as your defense it's not going to get you very far. Do you believe this is incorrect?
I was simply pointing out that trying to argue Freedom of Speech when talking about violence between two individuals, is muddying the waters. If I punch you in the face because you say something dumb/ offensive, then your speech hasn't been abridged. Your personal space and safety? Totally abridged and probably illegal on my part. But it still has nothing to do with your free expression of ideas, as abhorrent as they may be.

Basically, don't make this into some sort of existential affront to liberal democracy by trying to put a thin patina of bullshit on top of your standard, "talk shit, get hit" occurrence.

An occurence--I must remind everyone--never actually happened.
 
Mar 18, 2018
3,389
I already mentioned that I wasn't defending punching him in the face. From the start I've been mentioning the fact that the anger is perfectly fine and natural without not giving a single defense for punching them in the face

If it isn't clear, personally, I would not, for a myriad of reasons, strike at the guy. An average dude would be able to break me in half. I even think punching a random in the face might not be the correct way to go about things! Even if just for the fact that the negative consequences for you will far outweigh the positives.

The OP was right to feel angry, and if he socked the guy in the face, I'd give it the worlds biggest shrug and definitely not vilify him. That direct response was at the fact that that poster was pretending that the guy wasn't actually 'doing anything' when making a political statement is, in fact, an action.

Apologies if I was a bit too rough earlier, this is a sensitive subject.
I agree with everything you say. Looking back you've clearly been dogpiled a bit in this thread so I probably should have replied what I did to someone else. I apologise.

But on the subject of how to confront people wearing that sort of thing, while punching ain't smart they should be confronted. I don't believe that people who wear shirts like that are upset if they receive no attention as people in this thread are claiming. I grew up around racists and they get off on the idea that 'their people' accept their ideas, not that other people get upset by them. They don't want confrontation and they don't like it, they want agreement.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,029
a: lol. Brush up on your history

B: Feeling angry at someone that supports fascism is a perfectly normal and valid response.
This circles back to the OP.

It's perfectly normal to feel anger when you're offended by something like this. But emotion is a spectrum. It's fine to think about it during dinner. It's fine to want to SAY SOMETHING to them. It's fine to still be thinking about that dude when you're driving home from the restaurant.

If the anger is such that you're legitimately having to fight off an urge to physically assault them then I'd say we've moved into the "get help" area. I think that's what much of the discussion has been trying to convey.

There's a lot of room here between being appropriately bothered by something and wanting to attack someone.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,516
a: lol. Brush up on your history

B: Feeling angry at someone that supports fascism is a perfectly normal and valid response.



I already mentioned that I wasn't defending punching him in the face. From the start I've been mentioning the fact that the anger is perfectly fine and natural without not giving a single defense for punching them in the face

If it isn't clear, personally, I would not, for a myriad of reasons, strike at the guy. An average dude would be able to break me in half. I even think punching a random in the face might not be the correct way to go about things! Even if just for the fact that the negative consequences for you will far outweigh the positives.

The OP was right to feel angry, and if he socked the guy in the face, I'd give it the worlds biggest shrug and definitely not vilify him. That direct response was at the fact that that poster was pretending that the guy wasn't actually 'doing anything' when making a political statement is, in fact, an action.

Apologies if I was a bit too rough earlier, this is a sensitive subject.
I agree with this.

In this thread people saying MAGA and America First are innocuous political slogans just like "Hope and Change" are being wilfully ignorant of reality.
 
Oct 29, 2017
9,988
Unless he physically attacked you that is an overreaction mate.

Who cares if he's a POS Trump supporter.
Yeah. The op has never been in a fight and this is what nearly pushed him over the edge? And he was going to sucker punch him at that? Huh
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
This circles back to the OP.

It's perfectly normal to feel anger when you're offended by something like this. But emotion is a spectrum. It's fine to think about it during dinner. It's fine to want to SAY SOMETHING to them. It's fine to still be thinking about that dude when you're driving home from the restaurant.

If the anger is such that you're having to fight off an urge to physically assault them then I'd say we've moved into the "get help" area. I think that's what much of the discussion has been trying to convey.

There's a lot of room here between being appropriately bothered by something and wanting to attack someone.
What level of anger do you think is acceptable for this?

John McCain levels of concerned?

OP even mentioned that they're Jewish. And this is literally harkening back to an ideology that killed countless like him.

Do you really want to point at a minority aggressively targeted by fascism and tell them they gotta turn that frown upside down?
 
Oct 27, 2017
364
Sometimes, I see people people take the butter out of the ramekin and actually place it on their plate. Like, what the fuck? They deserve perpetual-maiming, yeah?

This whole Trump t-shirt thing is an obvious cause for homicide; but the butter, right?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,911
Because that's totally what I said. Why are you even responding without reading the thread?



SUPPORTING A FACIST IS SUPPORTING FACISM
It certainly looks like it to me with your pulling out all the stops to defend a guy who had an urge to pummel someone while they were dining with their family because of what their shirt said.
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
It certainly looks like it to me with your pulling out all the stops to defend a guy who had an urge to pummel someone while they were dining with their family because of what their shirt said.
Yup

I'm defending the OP because he had a completely justified burst of anger against someone walking around with a shirt baring a symbol of hate.

Glad you understand :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
595
β€œI wish Hillary had married OJ”

Fun bumper sticker I saw on a gigantic truck, I just had to get a look at the guy and yes, he looked like he was heading to a white supremacist meth lab.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,911
Yup

I'm defending the OP because he had a completely justified burst of anger against someone walking around with a shirt baring a symbol of hate.

Glad you understand :)
Exactly. So it's not really that much of a stretch of the imagination to assume you would have no qualms with him or anyone else acting on those bursts of anger.
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
Exactly. So it's not really that much of a stretch of the imagination to assume you would have no qualms with him or anyone else acting on those bursts of anger.
First off, lmao, you're being ridiculous. Regardless od my stance on the matter, rhere's a very large gap between understanding someone's anger and justifying violence.

Second, I'm not going to judge a person for punching someone that espouses an ideology based around killing minorities like them.
 
Oct 30, 2017
10,215
he is still supporting a candidate that claims all mexican immigrants are rapists
trump is already enough of a schmuck without you making things up about him

what he actually said about mexican immigrants is bad enough, dont undermine your position by overreaching
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
trump is already enough of a schmuck without you making things up about him

what he actually said about mexican immigrants is bad enough, dont undermine your position by overreaching
Donald Trump said:
They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.
Unless you want to take the 'and some, i assume, are good people' as him saying not all are rapists, I guess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,748
Terana
giving the troll what he wants, unfortunately. they crave provocation more than anything. But I get it, OP. I really do. Good on not acting on that impulse though/
 
Oct 30, 2017
10,215
Unless you want to take the 'and some, i assume, are good people' as him saying not all are rapists, I guess.
i honestly never saw the "they're rapists" part as him saying every one of them that isn't "good people" is a rapist

maybe im a minority on that though

cuz if that were the case he would be saying every single one of them that isn't "good people" is both bringing drugs and raping people, i dont think thats what he meant

he could very well believe that for all i know, but i dont think thats what that sentence means
 
Oct 25, 2017
311
Canada
I get the anger, but punching someone over a t-shirt would have been immature and highly unnecessary. People like that aren't worth wasting energy over when history is going to paint them as laughing stocks.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,005
You made it this far without knocking someone out or getting into a scuffle and this is the closest you got? Over that?

Either you're a monk or one patient mf'er
 
Dec 10, 2018
1,225
I live in AZ. I can't afford to punch every Trumper I see in person I'll probably be locked up for life or shot up and killed by a open carry asshole .
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
i honestly never saw the "they're rapists" part as him saying every one of them that isn't "good people" is a rapist

maybe im a minority in that though

cuz if that were the case he would be saying every one of them that isn't "good people" is both bringing drugs and raping people, i dont think thats what he meant
The progression of broad>broad>specific pulls a lot of attention to the specific one. But I guess thats also putting more thought in his words than he did, lmao.

Are you doing some kind of performance?
If hating nazis is a performance, I'm a mother fucking broadway star.
 
Sounds like you might be breaking down. He was just sitting there eating dinner with his family and his t-shirt enraged you to the point of needing to suppress an unprovoked violent attack?

Its good you at least recognize that your reaction was wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,203
Trump let the entire island of Puerto Rico rot, and hasn't mentioned the 3000 citizens--human fucking beings, ffs--that died under his watch. If it makes you feel better about yourselves to give this fucking cretin and his fans some measure of empathy, that's your pathos. These wastes of flesh love trolling normal folks because something is emotionally broken with the people who still follow Trump. People daydreaming about smacking the fucking taste out of their mouths should be the least of their worries if Trump is successful in remaking government in his image.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,649
I had a similar situation OP (without the violent thoughts).

I parked my car at the gym, next to a white truck. The truck had the following bumper stickers.

"come and take them" (with a picture of an AR-15)

"blue lives matter"

"Cowboy up"

I then walk up to the gym door and some asshole in a giant white cowboy hat walks out. He held the door open for me. I stopped and gave him a "nope" look until he walked on his way.

So in a way, I get it OP.
 
Dec 24, 2017
6,335
Sounds like you might be breaking down. He was just sitting there eating dinner with his family and his t-shirt enraged you to the point of needing to suppress an unprovoked violent attack?
Unprovoked only in the most strict sense of the word, if you saw a guy having dinner wearing a shirt with a Swastika on it you'd (hopefully) have the same reaction. Trump gear is just Nazi shit for people too afraid to wear the more blatant stuff because they want to announce their views with plausible deniability.
 
Unprovoked only in the most strict sense of the word, if you saw a guy having dinner wearing a shirt with a Swastika on it you'd (hopefully) have the same reaction. Trump gear is just Nazi shit for people too afraid to wear the more blatant stuff because they want to announce their views with plausible deniability.
Unprovoked in every sense of the word actually, including the literal sense. The guy was sitting there eating dinner with his kids.
 
Feb 4, 2019
558
I saw an suv the other day with a blue lives matter sticker. I looked over, and was like what a dick and kept going. Entertaining the idea of murdering someone in cold blood and then performing the perfect cover-up is only for pros.
 
Dec 24, 2017
6,335
Unprovoked in every sense of the word actually, including the literal sense. The guy was sitting there eating dinner with his kids.
For a gay person, that person wearing that shirt wants to deny your humanity. For an immigrant, that person wants to deny your human rights. For a black person, that shirt says you don't give a shit about them. For a woman, that shirt says you support sexual assault. For anyone who cares about those groups, that shirt is a direct affront to not only basic values, but it's an attack on your friends. It's not just a shirt, they chose to wear it in order to provoke those feelings from people and to peacock to the world about what a piece of shit they are, and that doesn't stop just because they need to eat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
40
A guy came into a store I worked in 10 years ago with a tattoo of a nazi war eagle his chest. Was it shocking and offensive? Of course. Did I once seriously think about hitting him? Fuck no. Why should I risk my job, life, and supporting my family over some asshole's tattoo?

Good thing you came to your senses and didn't get a criminal record OP. Unless your life is in danger in that moment, never physically hit or otherwise harm anyone.
 
For a gay person, that person wearing that shirt wants to deny your humanity. For an immigrant, that person wants to deny your human rights. For a black person, that shirt says you don't give a shit about them. For a woman, that shirt says you support sexual assault. For anyone who cares about those groups, that shirt is a direct affront to not only basic values, but it's an attack on your friends. It's not just a shirt, they chose to wear it in order to provoke those feelings from people and to peacock to the world about what a piece of shit they are, and that doesn't stop just because they need to eat.
I agree that those political sentiments you described are despicable, and are indeed deeply intertwined with Trump and the movement that supports him. But to respond to someone wearing a Trump shirt by violently assaulting them as they are peacefully eating dinner with their kids would be a completely unhinged and deranged response to that situation.

Unprovoked violence is absolutely never the answer and will never solve anything.
 
Feb 8, 2018
64
I agree that those political sentiments you described are despicable, and are indeed deeply intertwined with Trump and the movement that supports him. But to respond to someone wearing a Trump shirt by violently assaulting them as they are peacefully eating dinner with their kids would be a completely unhinged and deranged response to that situation.

Unprovoked violence is absolutely never the answer and will never solve anything.
Say it with me, class.

WEARING πŸ‘ A πŸ‘ SYMBOL πŸ‘ OF πŸ‘ HATE πŸ‘ IS πŸ‘ PROVOCATION πŸ‘

and also study your history. might wanna look up how progress in this world actually gets -made-
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,911
a: lol. Brush up on your history
and also study your history. might wanna look up how progress in this world actually gets -made-
There you go again... Why were you beating around the bush earlier about advocating for outright violence?

WEARING πŸ‘ A πŸ‘ SYMBOL πŸ‘ OF πŸ‘ HATE πŸ‘ IS πŸ‘ PROVOCATION πŸ‘
Please take this crap back to Twitter.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,911
For a gay person, that person wearing that shirt wants to deny your humanity. For an immigrant, that person wants to deny your human rights. For a black person, that shirt says you don't give a shit about them. For a woman, that shirt says you support sexual assault. For anyone who cares about those groups, that shirt is a direct affront to not only basic values, but it's an attack on your friends.
You know very well that none of that would hold up in any sane court of law, which is exactly where the OP would find himself if he had given into his violent impulse.
 
Say it with me, class.

WEARING πŸ‘ A πŸ‘ SYMBOL πŸ‘ OF πŸ‘ HATE πŸ‘ IS πŸ‘ PROVOCATION πŸ‘

and also study your history. might wanna look up how progress in this world actually gets -made-
Wearing a Trump t-shirt isn't a provocation that justifies violence. If you think so then you are unhinged.

And what are you suggesting, that violence is justified in the name of progress? Should we round up the 62 million people who voted for Trump and execute them by firing squad? Sentiments like this are very detrimental to actual progress. You aren't helping the cause by being edgy online.
 
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