Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
For some reason, I never really paid any mind to Xenogears, despite how highly esteemed it is among JRPG fans and me loving 90s era JRPGs. I think the name kind of was made into a blur for me thanks to the Xenosaga and Xenoblade games, so I never really paid attention to Xenogears. So, the last month or so I was playing Chrono Trigger for the first time and it was a really tight and well-designed game that I definitely saw why some consider it the greatest JRPG of all time - although I didn't really care much about the tone or the narrative or the battle system, to be honest. Then I was in the mood for a PS1 JRPG and found out how amazing Duckstation makes PS1 games look, so I figured I would boot up Xenogears just to see how much the emulator improved it. Not only was I impressed by the visual presentation of Xenogears, but going from Chrono Trigger's light-hearted tone and cast of characters to Xenogears' much more melancholic and 'suffering' narrative felt like such a fresh breath of air to me to such an extent that the introduction with Fei and Elly catapulted me throughout the 55 hour journey. And by the end, I was absolutely enthralled by how great of a game it was. Here are some of the stuff that really impressed me:
  • The 90s anime intro was intriguing and gave a sense of wonder that I had no idea how it connected to the main story with Fei's life in the village. I ended up absolutely loving the premise of the plot
  • The story was so ambitious and grand that I don't think I'll ever get to see a game with such a massive story, amount of characters, time-span, lore and worldbuilding as Xenogears. Just browsing the translated Perfect Works book gives you an idea how incredibly vast the universe of Xenogears was imagined to be. Really impressive creative imagination by Tetsuya Takahasi and Soraya Saga / Kaori Tanaka!
  • Mitsuda's soundtrack is really amazing. It only suffers from a lack of songs to spread out across 55 hours of game, so sometimes the reuse of tracks can drag some of the experience down, but there are some really standout compositions, especially towards the end of the game. Absolutely loved the music!
  • Beautiful 2D sprites in a 3D space look really, really good in an emulator in 4K with extra enhancements (see below and sorry to the pixel purists, I used a filter!)
  • As someone who loves Valkyrie Profile, the battle system with its combos felt like I was right at home. Unfortunately I never really got properly introduced to it, so I didn't unlock all of the combos when I finished the game
  • The multiple game systems they wanted to do in these games reflect the high ambitions of the narrative. Two different combat systems on foot and in Gears, combo-levelling, fuel and health management in the Gear combat, platforming, level puzzles, random battles, 3 different ships to travel the worldmap, even a combat arena where the game turned into a fighting game à la Tekken / Street Fighter - I can't believe they managed to jam so many different systems together in one single game (for better or worse). Because I played the game through emulation via Duckstation, I used save states to get over the nasty and frustrating parts (platforming or difficult bosses with badly placed save points), so the game was more enjoyable than if played on the original Playstation.
  • The melancholic tone and tragic tale of these interwoven fates and characters was what really hooked me. Fei and Elly, their affection for one another, juxtaposed with the camaraderie of the party members with each of their own stories really provided the emotional core to the much more abstract, philosophical themes of existence, free will, values of a human life, love, and so on.
  • I was already prepared for the infamous Disc 2 and I actually expected an underwhelming conclusion to the very ambitious journey. While I certainly did laugh at the visual novel style of characters sitting in a chair with a spotlight on them recounting the cut content in order to advance the story, I still felt that most of the threads ended up being wrapped up and the ending section was absolutely sublime.
  • In a sense, Disc 2 was not bad at all! I actually enjoyed it. I guess it's easier for me to enjoy since I'm okay with visual novels, so I didn't see many problems with the lack of 'gameplay'. I'm certainly much more happy that the story was concluded and wrapped up rather than cut short for some sequel that might never had seen the light of day. Square Enix and the development team certainly made the right choice by compromising with Disc 2 rather than ending it after the destruction of Solaris.
All in all, it's rare that I get to experience something so special, something that is so fundamentally human in its treatment of themes and characters that the combined parts of the experience leaves a mark on me. It really felt like such a blessing to be able to see and feel such a monumental and super-ambitious game that somehow manages to go above and beyond with its tens of characters and deeper philosophical themes, despite almost faltering at the end due to production constraints. What an incredible experience. I'm so sad that it's not possible to buy any longer after Sony shut down the PSN store.

So what now? Am I condemned to asking Square Enix to re-release the game on modern platforms? To remaster it like they did with Legend of Mana and the Saga games? Did the 20 year anniversary in 2018 with its figures and concerts result indicate any effort to revitalize the game in some form? Am I supposed to go play the off-putting Xenosaga games that I've heard will in no way reach the heights and quality of Xenogears?

Here are some screens of the game that I played in Duckstation (mostly just the first third of the game, I have tons more but that would cripple the thread):
ImGOzi.jpg

Iezkf5.jpg

IezEpC.jpg

IezC0z.jpg

IezJBT.jpg

IezQYb.jpg

Iez927.jpg

IezdJr.jpg

IezqSF.jpg

IezBx3.jpg

IezsR0.jpg

Iez3pD.jpg

Iez4Fq.jpg

IezpIA.jpg
 

NattyBo

Member
Dec 29, 2017
4,316
Washington, DC
Yeah, welcome to the club of having your greatest video game wish never be fulfilled (seeing a true continuation of the series). Still, glad you enjoyed the GOAT
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
Congratulations. You have played one of the best games of all time.

Now play the Xenosaga games. They are definitely not as good as Gears, but they are still some of the best RPGs on the PlayStation 2, and all the references to Gears will bring a smile to your face.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
So what now? Am I condemned to asking Square Enix to re-release the game on modern platforms? To remaster it like they did with Legend of Mana and the Saga games? Did the 20 year anniversary in 2018 with its figures and concerts result indicate any effort to revitalize the game in some form? Am I supposed to go play the off-putting Xenosaga games that I've heard will in no way reach the heights and quality of Xenogears?

So now you are asking the same question as me, only I've been asking it for the past 23 years, as I played the game Day One in 1998. There is really nothing you can do. None of the other "Xeno" games come close to Xenogears, it was lightning in a bottle that we haven't seen before or sense. A remaster is the best we can hope for, but, like I said, it's been 23 years, I don't have high hopes. A remake? Please, it's too early to make me laugh that hard.

The only thing we can do is appreciate the game for what it is and what it was. And if something new happens be pleasantly surprised, but don't hold your breath.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
18,038
The sprites in the screenshots have the most aggressive texture filtering I've seen :(
 

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,766
it's divisive, but Chrono Cross has a lot of the same DNA as xenogears, including some of the wierd meta stuff that Xenogears got into that other xeno games didn't.

Anyway, my dream would be a remake of xenogears that actually has a playable second disk
 

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,493
I've been chasing the high I got from playing Xenogears and have not been successful for 5 years at this point. You can try Xenosaga, it has some callbacks but it's mostly a different feel.
 
OP
OP
Samiya

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
It's ok to just enjoy something as a one-off experience.

Did I say it wasn't okay? I'm more than fine and satisfied with the experience I had, I was only asking about "what now" in terms of arriving late to the party and wondering what has transpired since then and what I've missed out on.

The sprites in the screenshots have the most aggressive texture filtering I've seen :(

Apologies, I just preferred the xBR filter to even out the textures from being so pixelated. :) It looks more pleasant than when in its original form, imo. But I definitely understand why the original is better.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,922
I haven't played this game since it was released but I agree that the story was insanely ambitious and for the most part really well done.

I also had no problem with the second disc being a visual novel tying up a ton of loose ends. Sometimes you just want to see how the story ends and I got that with Xenogears. Its probably a little needlessly complicated but I enjoyed it.
 
OP
OP
Samiya

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
So now you are asking the same question as me, only I've been asking it for the past 23 years, as I played the game Day One in 1998. There is really nothing you can do. None of the other "Xeno" games come close to Xenogears, it was lightning in a bottle that we haven't seen before or sense. A remaster is the best we can hope for, but, like I said, it's been 23 years, I don't have high hopes. A remake? Please, it's too early to make me laugh that hard.

The only thing we can do is appreciate the game for what it is and what it was. And if something new happens be pleasantly surprised, but don't hold your breath.

I really wonder how it was back in 1998 without everybody having internet to help out and talk through the game. How was it back Day One in 1998?

By the way, didn't all the music and merchandise in 2018 result in some form of vitality for the game? Does it indicate that
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,664
If the gameplay in Xenogears was better, it'd be in my Top 10 of all time. The music is amazing, love the characters & the plot, and the general ambition of the game, but the gameplay is a weak point IMO with not much depth to either combat system & long stretches where you barely interact with the game at all. But even with that flaw, it's still one of my favorites.

Have you watched Evangelion? Back in the day, there were lots of jokes about how Xenogears was just a videogame knockoff of Evangelion.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
I really wonder how it was back in 1998 without everybody having internet to help out and talk through the game. How was it back Day One in 1998?

By the way, didn't all the music and merchandise in 2018 result in some form of vitality for the game? Does it indicate that

I don't remember having too many problems with Xenogears in terms of getting stuck or needing to be talked though. The only thing I remember holding me up was that fucking game of hide and seek lol. And I realize 23 years ago is older than a lot of posters here but we actually had the internet in 98, so there was always that if you really needed it. Not as robust or fast as today's internet (dial up), but we had it. Not to mention video game mags, but again, Xeno was not the type of game where you needed to seek out too much additional info. Unlike, Suikoden for example where if you wanted to get all 108 Stars of Destiny you'd want to use a guide.

I don't think anything in 2018 made any major dent. The biggest dent actually came not long after the original release with Xenosaga in 2002. That release gave the biggest hope but upon playing it I realized it doesn't have really much to do with Xenogears and even if it did it was such a shit game in comparison. Basically my "hope" was done with after that. By the time Episode II came out I played it, but had given up any hope of it holding a candle to Xenogears.
 

Cap10Deku

Member
Dec 2, 2017
592
Seattle, Wa
I remember loving the lore of Xenogears so much. I also remember playing and not knowing my first time around you can get Emeralda to grow up. Then going through that chain and seeing even more lore (from Fei and Elly's past lives) was so cool.

Mannnn... I haven't thought of Xenogears for a long awhile now. What a great game that was.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,169
Seattle
Did I say it wasn't okay? I'm more than fine and satisfied with the experience I had, I was only asking about "what now" in terms of arriving late to the party and wondering what has transpired since then and what I've missed out on.
You asked a few questions about remakes and remasters, and whether you should try the rest of the games in the series. I was just trying to say that it's good to enjoy just the one. Maybe come back to it and replay it in a few years like I have?
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,664
From what I remember, the thing about Xenosaga is that episode 1 & 2 are mediocre at best, but episode 3 is a pretty good game. But in order to fully enjoy episode 3, you need to play episode 1 & 2 first. So there's the question of whether you want to track down 3 games & trudge through 2 so-so games just to get to the good part.
 

Cap10Deku

Member
Dec 2, 2017
592
Seattle, Wa
I really wonder how it was back in 1998 without everybody having internet to help out and talk through the game. How was it back Day One in 1998?

By the way, didn't all the music and merchandise in 2018 result in some form of vitality for the game? Does it indicate that

It's been awhile.. but I waaaaant to say gamefaqs was a thing I used for Xenogears. Especially to help find every easter egg to "100%" the game as much as possible.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
59,578
Terana
now you know how we've felt for the last 20 years lol

AND LOL WE HAD THE INTERNET IN 1998. GAMEFAQS
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,664
It's been awhile.. but I waaaaant to say gamefaqs was a thing I used for Xenogears. Especially to help find every easter egg to "100%" the game as much as possible.

I just checked and I started my Soul Hackers guide on GameFAQs the same month that Xenogears came out in NA. So GameFAQs was definitely a thing back then & since it was a big Squaresoft game, it probably got guides & walkthroughs very quickly.
 

Cap10Deku

Member
Dec 2, 2017
592
Seattle, Wa
I just checked and I started my Soul Hackers guide on GameFAQs the same month that Xenogears came out in NA. So GameFAQs was definitely a thing back then & since it was a big Squaresoft game, it probably got guides & walkthroughs very quickly.

Oh awesome! Ya I can vaguely remember the guide I went through (the wall of text of course!), but it was like a translated guide or something or a lot of the names sometimes didn't match up exactly. But still worked perfectly!
 

Midas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,578
I loved everything with Xenogears. I had no issues with disc 2. But of course, more gameplay wouldn't have been a bad thing. No arguement there.

Maybe it's time to play it again? I probably forgot most of the things in the game by now? Maybe not, I remember that little prick Dan. Vividly.
 

EduBRK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
988
Brazil
Yeah, I've played the other Xeno games, they are good, but don't hit the same notes as gears.

I've played in 98, it was an obssession to my young teenage me. My english was not that good at the time, I've played the whole game with a huge dictionary by my side, and pen and paper to write down and translate some of the dialog.

This and Final Fantasy Tactics... how I'd wish a real sequence / remake.

But hey, we got a Saga Frontier Remaster of all things, maybe someday Square will remember the original Xeno... and Tactics (release it on steam)... and Parasite Eve... and Vagrant Story.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,708
Though I found things to like in spiritual successor games under other Xeno IPs, I have yet to play one that left as strong an impression on me as Xenogears.
 

transience

Found the ultimate water hazard
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,283
You did it. You scaled the mountain of video games. You've reached the peak, the summit, the apex, the alpha and the omega, you name it. Unfortunately, those of us who experienced this in 98 have been searching since then for something that can offer a similar experience ever since.

Xenosaga can give you a decent approximation, especially when you get to the third game, but nothing is really Xenogears. Certainly not Xenoblade, though I do like that game a whole lot. In my experience, the best you can do is to jump right back in and experience the story again knowing all of the minutia of the world, the -Time- of the -Gospel-, Id and the Coward, Miang and Wiseman and Grahf and Lacan, etc. I wouldn't do that immediately, but it is an interesting replay. They really hit you over the head with the game's themes hard and don't really try to hide any of their foreshadowing whatsoever.
 

Skulldead

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,484
I think the First disk is one of the best JRPG overall package ever release, too bad the second disk isn't like the first. The story is good, but everything else was bad....
 

Irene

Member
Feb 22, 2021
730
Fantastic to hear your impressions OP! Xenogears is something special, unique even. It has so much ambitions that it leaves you in awe.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
I stopped playing japanese RPGs for at least a decade because of the combo Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears. What a ride...
 

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
2,561
Xenogears is truly one of a kind, especially when it comes to the Battle System.



I played the original Xenoblade and the Xenosaga games. For the saga ones it's hard to recommend personally because they just don't have the same magic as gears, but that's just me.
 

Buff Beefbroth

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 12, 2018
3,071
Really loved this game at release, but was too dumb and bad at RPGs so I got stuck and never finished it.

Should really correct this.
 

SnazzyNaz

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 11, 2019
1,885
I know these aren't the responses you were looking for but, yeah, that filter is reprehensible.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,735
Congratulations on finishing one of the best jrpgs if all time. Welcome to the club, we have been asking the same question for years. I would say give the xenosaga games a shot. Fair warning: NONE of the other xeno games can hold a candle to gears. They are good, just don't expect anything close to gears.
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,989
More impressed you tolerated that filter for the entire game. Can you post more pics of games using that filter? Final Fantasy Tactics next please
 

Arukado

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
I have to go back to this game. I played it a long time ago, but stopped right at the last dungeon, for some reason i dont remember (maybe i just didnt want to beat it).

And yes, that filter is obnoxious (i posted some unfiltered screenshots in the 32:9 thread), but if that was your preference OP then so be it
 

Svejk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
699
There's nothing you can do now. You just witnessed the peak of the Xeno games. Even says so at the beginning of the game; "I am Alpha and Omega.. The beginning and the End." Just play through it again.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,922
Really loved this game at release, but was too dumb and bad at RPGs so I got stuck and never finished it.

Should really correct this.
If your Gears were not decked out correctly and if your characters did not have the right powers the battles could be tough.

I remember the last battle being very tough for me because by the end I was not upgrading properly and some of my Gears were kind of weak.