1. OP says the store is located close to a train station. Train stations in Germany have public bathrooms but it costs 0,50 to one Euro to use them.
    That's why you always have people trying to use store/restaurant facilities without buying something even though it is not allowed in 99% of places.
     
  2. Klyka

    Klyka
    Member OP

    There are, but they also cost money and are not as nice as ours.
     
  3. Devil

    Devil
    Member

    Tell them that most of your customers have a migrant background and they are allowed to use the bathroom, just like them if they were to become a customer. Ask them how that's racist then. They'll shut up and go, they're just angry, stupid and maybe overreact because of the more racist tendencies in the German political climate recently.
     
  4. NoblesseOblige

    NoblesseOblige
    Community Resettler Member

    Oh. Paying to use a public restroom is a completely foreign idea to me.
     
  5. Bedameister

    Bedameister
    Member

    Are the signs that say the bathroom is only for customers outside the shop and easy visible?
     
  6. Klyka

    Klyka
    Member OP

    No, we only have the signs on the actual bathroom doors.
    Our Boss doesn't want those signs outside *eye roll*
     
  7. Bedameister

    Bedameister
    Member

    Well there's your problem. I'm sure this would decrease the problem. Maybe you should talk to your boss again about it. Other than that you shouldn't feel bad. There are just too many asshole people out there.
     
  8. Steelrain

    Steelrain
    Member

    I was skeptical about paid toilets until I moved to Germany for a few years. Now, after being back in the States I wholeheartedly support them. I will never understand what compels a person to shit/bleed/piss anywhere but the toilet and not clean up behind themselves.

    You're good, OP. I would just make the rule applicable to everyone, regulars or not so you guys can cover your asses. I doubt small change would drive away people who like being there otherwise
     
  9. Skippy

    Skippy
    Member

    First of all complaining about immigrants is not a good look.

    And you live in Germany. A country where aFD, a neo Nazi party, is one of the most popular in your country. The racist nature of German society isn't theoretical. There is a lot of racism and hostility towards many immigrants in Germany.

    I would say to the OP to stop complaining about immigrants, stop blaming the victims of racism to be on the look out for racism and perhaps blame the pervasiveness of racism in European culture, something that does not seem to bother you at all.

    Its always suspect when people only care about the reaction to racism and never the racism itself, or how minorities have to exist in a suffocatingly racist society.
     
  10. faceless

    faceless
    Member

    you spent a lot of time saying that you have a large clientele with an immigrant background, but then you say that they get mad and call you racist when they see someone else get the key... can it be that the policy itself is fine, but the staff there just recognizes or remembers certain people better than others, leading to a situation where it just appears that certain folk are getting the key more often?
     
  11. jot

    jot
    Member

    One of the things that I think is a root cause of this issue, which in my opinion plagues cities worldwide, is the lack of availability and issues around public bathroom access. It's actually a pretty major public health concern that few people really care about. I recently read a book that did a great job of discussing the issues, called No Place to Go - would highly recommend it: https://www.amazon.ca/No-Place-Go-Toilets-Private/dp/1552453707.
     
  12. BasilZero

    BasilZero
    Member

    People will say things to break you down and to get what they want.


    But you need to work by your company's policy. You arent doing anything wrong.


    There's something similar to "paid toilets" in offices here in the US (havent seen them called as such lol, they maybe the same) , some companies share a office space with each other and provide keys to their customers if they want to go to the bathroom. Otherwise the bathrooms are locked even though someone from the public can get near them, doesnt necessarily mean they can get in them.


    I've seen a few places where it says customers only while in some cases, places that used to have bathrooms which public can use have a sign now saying "No restrooms for the public" lol.
     
  13. the non-customer is always wrong

    try not to let it bother you
     
  14. large_gourd

    large_gourd
    Alt-Account Member

    Thinks it would hurt business, I guess? Or doesn't want toilets mentioned on the front of the shop.

    You've got to be able to make some kind of case that not having them outside is making the work environment worse for his employees having to deal with frequent hostility, which is bad for business too, right? I'm sure you've already tried, but that's crappy.
     
  15. It's strange indeed that his boss doesn't want a sign outside but maybe they know it could be futile. I used to work summers as a waitress in an area that was full of tourists. We had signs all over the storefront in different languages. We still got a ton of people trying to use the facilities and asking to make an exception.
     
  16. Biestmann

    Biestmann
    Member

    OP is not complaining about immigrants, he is woeing immigrant non-customers calling him racist for not getting access to the store's toilet. A German non-customer would be hard-pressed to call him a racist in this scenario. It's simply the context of the situation.
     
  17. Dali

    Dali
    Member

    Thats the policy in a lot of downtown or busy areas. I wouldn't let it bother you.
     
  18. Dyno

    Dyno
    Member

    Well I mean they're immigrants man, they're probably struggling and living in a place where you have to pay the same to take a shit as you do for a burger, is it hard to imagine why they may want to use a toilet for free instead?

    Honestly if I came from a country where this isn't the norm, and was told I had to pay or shit myself I'd think it was race based spite. Honestly the idea of having to pay an automated service to shit in a city and have no alternative since the automated service can't be reasoned with is kind of weird no? Especially so to those who haven't been living around it for years already
     
  19. Ramjag

    Ramjag
    Member

    I wouldn’t sweat it. I’ve seen customers get mad and make up shit in various jobs during my youth when they didn’t get their way and in your case, these people aren’t even customers. At some point, it just went in one ear and out the other for me.
     
  20. hoggert

    hoggert
    Member

    • User Banned (1 Week): Trolling
    its just their situation man so they gotta act out and like fight the system by stealing random strangers wallets and making old cleaning women cry its totally societies fault because im sitting back in this comfy computer chair and i can see what the real problem is the throw human feces against the wall defense force assemble on me and we can fight this injustice that is clearly race-based profiling
     
  21. Shredderi

    Shredderi
    Member

    Funny, I didn't know there was free city toilets in other countries since I haven't seen one in my life. So to me, the reverse would obviously seem weird, right? Still not an excuse to call a man racist.
     
  22. Klyka

    Klyka
    Member OP

    I'm sorry I don't understand your post
     
  23. Dyno

    Dyno
    Member

    The reverse wouldn't actually result in a situation where somebody was declined the use of a restroom so of course that wouldn't result in anybody being called racist as there's zero conflict to initiate it. I don't really see what merit that point carries.
     
  24. Shadio

    Shadio
    Member

    I doubt any of these people genuinely think you're being racist. If they've seen a sign telling them the bathrooms are only for customers, then why would they? They're just trying to scare or guilt trip you into letting them get their way. People don't want to be called racist, especially not in public.

    If non-customers aren't allowed to use the bathrooms, then non-customers aren't allowed to use the bathrooms. You should know you're not doing anything wrong if you're only following the policy, and if people want to come up with their own excuses like "Oh, it must be because you're racist" then let them. That won't make them right.

    I'd try not to let it bother you. It's not you who is in the wrong.
     
  25. Andrew Lucas

    Andrew Lucas
    Banned Member

    Fuck off they should, the nightmares of having an open bathroom and the policy applied here is fine. Try to make your point and ignore them. There's nothing racist in your attitude.
     
  26. Shredderi

    Shredderi
    Member

    Merit of the point was that don't go calling a worker doing his job a racist when everyone has to pay for toilet usage in public spaces in Germany, and every other european country that I've been in.
     
  27. Dyno

    Dyno
    Member

    But that has nothing to do with anything you said or anything I said so I don't really get what you're getting at. I was simply trying to give some understanding of why these people may feel so heavily slighted over something that we take for granted as pocket change.

    I don't even get why the fact the person called him a racist is such a big deal though personally. If he wasn't being a racist it's nothing more than a personal attack. Ignore it and move on like any other adult if you've done nothing wrong
     
  28. Orin_linwe

    Orin_linwe
    Member

    You sound as level-headed as a decent person could be about it.

    A garbage-person would conclude that your interactions is indicative of the makeup of millions of strangers, and would let this inform future interactions with people who don't look like you.

    People are very complex, and if cornered - or feeling indignant - often don't shy away from being personally hurtful. If you were a young woman, or an easy-to-spot-non-straight-person, you would be ill-treated along those lines (and it can get incredibly ugly).

    For white, blonde people - frankly, people who look like me - the most effective angle "to work" in an ugly, stranger-interaction, is to accuse you of being racist, because it's so difficult to really dispute, and because white people - again, who look like me - tend to bend over backwards when accusted of being racist (partly because they are well keyed-into privilege, and don't want to add to the misery of this world).

    The world is very complex, and so are humans. I can't imagine that any random, clever brown person isn't also aware that - if they wanted to act amorally - could probably push well-meaning white people (through shame) to do all kinds of messed up interactions.

    For example, (very) young, non-white pickpocketers around the world seem to understand contemporary racial interactions in a very clear and perceptive manner, so why wouldn't a non-white adult also be aware of these mechanics?

    Ultimately, this situation sounds like a stressful environment to work within, and I think you're being tripped up a bit by accusations of racism when you try to evaluate whether this is a job you can do (or want to do).

    It's understandable that you feel a little tripped up about it, but since you seem concerned about possibly being racist - and posting about it here, on an open forum - it also seems fair to assume that you are trying your best to be egalitarian and fair.

    It could be that you're simply in a bad work-situation, and your ability to assess if it is bad for you is distracted by a worry that you might, indeed, be secretly racist.

    //Just to be clear - and because I am talking about racial tension as expressed by individual interactions, I want to stress that I am coming at this in good faith. Chances are that what I've said could be misconstrued in terms of ill-will, so I just feel it is important to stress this.

    Cheers, love.
     
  29. Shredderi

    Shredderi
    Member

    In my post I said it's not an excuse to call a man racist so yeah, I guess it had something to do with what I said after all. And yes, you don't get why it's such a big deal, personally. Seems that personally, the OP does. Shit can start to get to you if you hear it constantly.
     
  30. Hydeus

    Hydeus
    Banned Member

    World is brutal. You have to be tough and endure.
     
  31. Dyno

    Dyno
    Member

    You said if the toilets weren't paid he should still not be called racist. Again, in this context there's no context to initiate an attack so of course he wouldn't be called racist. I was giving him some context of why what's a small deal to us may not be to others who are less priveliged.

    Since then you've said the same point twice and still not actually managed to say what it has to do with my post. At all. You'll have to link me back to the bit where I said he should be called racist since that seems to be the invisible point you're countering. I also dont get why you're so very bothered about someone trying to explain what the other party may be seeing here to initiate the whole thing.
     
  32. vanmardigan

    vanmardigan
    Member

    What a tough hand you've been dealt. Through no fault of your own for being white and blond haired.

    Edit: let me cut the sarcasm: this is bullshit. White people as a whole aren't bending over to anyone, no matter what they're called. Your fear of being accused of racism, while probably real and uncomfortable, is nothing compared to being a victim of actual racism. There is no equivalence. I can concede that perhaps a few customers were wily and used guilt of white privilege to gain access to the restroom, but let's be real, the vast majority needed to use a restroom and were bemoaning a policy that, given the location of the shop, is disproportionately affecting minority immigrants. Fear of people playing the race card is a red herring.
     
  33. Orin_linwe

    Orin_linwe
    Member

    This is some of the misunderstanding I tried to stem with my original post. These are very complicated things to talk about, and it's easy to be misconstrued when we are strangers who can't hear each others voice, inflection, and all other valuble, contextual clues that pertains to motive.

    It's perfectly understandable to me that you are on your guard here, in the same way I would be if straight people jumped into a conversation about lgbtq+ issues (I'm gay).

    I suspect that we would be on "the same page" if we were talking in person, but we might be talking ahead/beyond each other right now, on this forum. Admittedly, I haven't read every post in this thread, and my original post might have come from an overly abstract point-of-view.

    It feels important to me that you know that I don't engage here with anyone out of ill-will, and that includes you, of course.
     
  34. Forearm_Star

    Forearm_Star
    Member

    Giving the key to regulars makes it seem, to someone on the outside looking in, as you being selective on who you're letting use your bathroom without paying.
    That part sucks because you want to be good to your customers but you're leaving a door open for criticism.

    Just keep being clear on your policy OP
     
  35. RedMercury

    RedMercury
    Member

    If you're not racist it doesn't apply to you so don't let it bother you. Make the restrooms employees only or let everyone in, I don't know what else you can do.
     
  36. Dr.Phibes

    Dr.Phibes
    Member

    Nah, you're not a racist. I'd rather worry about making money off gambling addicts, but if you're fine with that personally, that's cool.
     
  37. mutantmagnet

    mutantmagnet
    Member

    Don't recommend answering this here but talk to someone you know who really knows you.

    It gets under your skin but why? What is going on inside your head when these accusations come up.


    Once you start answering that question you can find a way to feel more comfortable in these situations.

    As a band aid I suggest you think back to how bad the bathroom used to be and take comfort that you traded away not spending time cleaning that up with getting hurled verbal abuse.

    Another band aid is to use social media but I would be very mindful of how you put people on blast with it because it relates to a business. In fact this is a terrible suggestion in most cases but it can be done right if you really are interested in this option.
     
  38. Siggy-P

    Siggy-P
    Member

    Wish we had that policy back when I worked at fast food as a teen. People tend to stop shitting in the urinals when they thought think could be personally singled out.

    The OP seems pretty clear that a lot of immigrants are being turned away because there's just a lot of immigrants in that area. You're making a baseless assumption here that white customers are probably being let in whether they're a customer or not when the OP hasn't really said anything like that.
     
  39. Green Mario

    Green Mario
    Member

    I work in retail and I feel your pain. I card a black person for a beer, they call me racist. One of our black employees cards a white person for a beer - also a racist.
     
  40. eebster

    eebster
    Member

    wtf is this post

    No OP youre obviously not racist and the policy is fine.
    I'm a turkish minority in Germany myself and I know how carelessly some of my countrymen throw around the racist accusation when something doesn't go their way. Don't listen to them when you're obviously not being racist.
     
  41. RellikSK

    RellikSK
    Member

    OP as long as you don’t call the cops or worse ICE, you aint racist.
     
  42. Being verbally abused on a daily or weekly basis while working can wear people down. It’s easy to look past something if it’s happening very infrequently but when it’s happening on a regular basis in work it’s not an acceptable working environment (which even though it seems to be primarily caused by the poor behaviour of non-customers in the shop, is on his manager to remedy).
     
  43. klastical

    klastical
    Member

    If I was a Muslim and you told me I had to buy something to use the bathroom and I was walking out I saw you let a regular (who happens to be white) use the bathroom without buying something I would probably think your rascist too. It sucks but that sort of wishy-washy policy is going tho lead to confusion like that, especally with a language barrier.

    Maybe bring it up with your boss that allowing regulars to use the bathroom but nor foreigners travelers is causing people to think the store is rascist. Framing the conversation that way makes it about revenue and not your feelings.
     
  44. Party McFly

    Party McFly
    Member

    What the fuck...?
     
  45. vanmardigan

    vanmardigan
    Member

    I mean, I appreciate the niceness you're displaying here, but you've really gone nowhere in explaining what you meant with your post. How can I interpret that middle part any different than you laying out your concerns about brown people using the race card into guilting white people like you to do what they want? And then you basically make it a self fulfilling prophecy by backing out of a deeper conversation here, ostensibly because you don't want people to pull the race card out on you. You're gay, I'm brown, let's talk about it. I'm sure you'd agree that you wouldn't want to discourage people from discussing lgbtq issues out of fear of saying the "wrong" things.

    Duh, more immigrants are being turned away because his shop is in an area with a large immigrant population. We've been talking about the the whole thread! I may have been the first one in this thread to state that fact. That a few white people get turned around doesn't detract from some of the conversation in this thread. But as a thought experiment, let me ask you this: regardless of area, which population do you think a law designed to limit rest room access to paying customers is going to disproportionately affect? Is it poor and immigrant persons? It is, isn't it?

    Let me know what part of it confuses you.
     
  46. I was standing in line behind an African guy once who tried to withdraw money from a bank account without bank card or any form of id. He only had a hand written note saying he is withdrawing it for his brother. He started screaming bloody murder when the bank teller told him that he couldn't help him and that he needed at least a valid id. Then he started calling the clerk a racist, before proceeding to call us all racists while we stood in line.

    Some people are just assholes and use everything when they don't get their way.
    Remember OP that these people aren't reflective of who you are. Don't let them get to you.
     
  47. I worked at a shitty motel front desk for a while and got hit with all sorts of shit like that OP. We are out of rooms, I’m not refusing you a room because of your race. Another HUGE awkward thing was putting someone’s info into the system and have them come back as a Do Not Rent due to they way they left previous rooms, and having to refuse them without telling them why...you get some colorful insults thrown at you. First time in my life a grown person threatened to assault me as well, ahhh the service industry! Do not miss it whatsoever. I’ll shovel shit for a living before I ever have to look a customer in the face again lol
     
  48. DigitalOp

    DigitalOp
    Member

    thats just fucking stupid and Id tell your boss.

    having a sign outside with the policy will drastically reduce people even coming in to ask in the first place. I hate when people actively contribute to problems their "trying to solve"

    Like I knew a guy who couldn't staff his hotel for shit but only looked for job apps on craigslist..... fucking idiot
     
  49. Yeah, thats just how humans work
     
  50. Shadio

    Shadio
    Member

    There's nothing wrong with the current situation. It doesn't need to be all or nothing.

    They already tried letting everybody in and it didn't work. They don't have an obligation to let strangers off the street use their bathrooms for free, and there's no reason their actual paying customers should suffer because of that.

    It's very clearly indicated that you need to be a paying customer to use the bathrooms. If you're not a paying customer, you can't expect to be allowed in, and that's it. If anybody considers that racist, that's their problem, because they're simply wrong.

    Well this story is indication of that being the case. There's a sign outside the bathroom - in many languages - telling people that they are not allowed to use the bathroom if they're not a customer. Normally, they'd stop there and find somewhere else. But there are people going to the staff and asking to be let in despite not meeting the requirements. They're still not let in, and they know exactly why that is.

    After hearing it twice, instead of accepting the fact that they are not allowed in because they aren't a customer (something they're obviously aware they're not), they claim that it's because the place is racist. Do you believe that's a logical conclusion to reach based on all that information, or do you think they're just angry the bathroom is only for customers and are lashing out, trying everything they can to get in? People will use anything they can to get what they want, and claiming racism can be an effective way to scare somebody into complying.