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I kind of love how the Sonic movie ended the "Sonic just doesn't work in a real world setting" argument

SilverX

SilverX

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Jan 21, 2018
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For years, a number of people have been vocal about how Sonic just doesn't mix in the real world and it is as ridiculous as putting Mario in such a setting. This was also highlighted as one of the reasons Sonic games just don't sell that well (as if the design and budget issues weren't a thing for ages now) meaning it lacked appeal.

Then comes the Sonic movie, and after fixing the horrific first design, we see that people absolutely loved seeing Sonic walking among real world humans (as he had been since the beginning, you know Dr. Robotnik? lol) in even some of plainest settings like a rural small town.

So now we have Sonic Frontiers which is looking to embrace a more realistic visual style (at least for the environments) that I feel the Sonic movie is partially responsible for it. I would even say it went as far as it broke the "Mario vision" so many longtime fans have seen the series since many refused to accept that the two franchises went off in different directions, or wanted to believe that Sonic was on a misdirected path.

So yes modern Sonic always worked, the Adventure games proved it, but the mishandling of Sonic games from that point on is what harmed the image of this part of the franchise. Now all we need is Sonic Frontiers to be a good game
 
Imran

Imran

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Oct 24, 2017
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SilverX said:
we see that people absolutely loved seeing Sonic walking among real world humans (as he had been since the beginning, you know Dr. Robotnik? lol) in even some of plainest settings like a rural small town.
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Your argument is predicated on a hypothetical consensus that I'm not sure really bears out
 
Aether

Aether

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Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Eh...no.

The movie sonic is a tailor made sonic design, with a pretty generic family movie with cgi character premise.
Sonic games go a completly different route, more shonen power fantasy.
The characters have to work for more then 2 hours, and the human world is still CGI.
There is no comparison between the two, and its kinda like conflating classic sonic and modern sonic.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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It's less that Sonic works or doesn't work in the real world and more that the setting of a Sonic game begins and ends with the people making it. Sonic Team did an absolutely horrid job for almost a decade establishing a setting that seemlessly worked. People still gelled with it because it was funny. Sonic's romance with Elise is something of comedy not a winning cohesion. The Sonic movie isn't doing anything dramatically different than any other mascot in a strange world movie, it just did it competently, which is all anyone ever asked for.

So the problem, as always, lies with Sonic Team. Remove them from the equation and you get something that's pretty okay.
 
Quinton

Quinton

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It's a successful flick. I wish its talented creators continued success.

The setting remains off-putting enough for me, personally, so while I've never engaged in this argument nor do I harbor any real desire to do so, I've not seen the movie and I don't intend to do so.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
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Sonic just works. He's an amazing character.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

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Aether said:
Eh...no.

The movie sonic is a tailor made sonic design, with a pretty generic family movie with cgi character premise.
Sonic games go a completly different route, more shonen power fantasy.
The characters have to work for more then 2 hours, and the human world is still CGI.
There is no comparison between the two, and its kinda like conflating classic sonic and modern sonic.
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Eh, FWIW, the combined on screen time of humans in both adventure games most likely is still exceeded by James Marsden's onscreen time in the movie. The difference is one is a hastily cobbled together mess of a world that has sonic plunked into the middle of it with no regard for how he and the rest of the world would interact, and the other is a fairly by numbers stranger in a strange land story that's all about that.

Joshwraith said:
it ended it by proving them right because the movie was bad
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The movie was fine. It was a better than average kids movie.
 
ElectricBlanketFire

ElectricBlanketFire

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Oct 25, 2017
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The Sonic movie worked because of Jim Carrey and the internet telling the studio to get their heads out of their asses with Sonic's design.

It has no impact on the games.
 
Mesoian

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ElectricBlanketFire said:
The Sonic movie worked because of Jim Carrey and the internet telling the studio to get their heads out of their asses with Sonic's design.

It has no impact on the games.
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This is also a big part of it too. By hook or by crook, the movie studio listened to fan outcry.

Sonic Team don't give a fuck what fans think.
 
Aether

Aether

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Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Quinton said:
It's a successful flick. I wish its talented creators continued success.

The setting remains off-putting enough for me, personally, so while I've never engaged in this argument nor do I harbor any real desire to do so, I've not seen the movie and I don't intend to do so.
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I mean... have you seen any "strange non human creature in a human world" family flick? then you have seen this.
Its superficially sonic, otherwise its trope after trope. If you have seen the garfield movie, smurfs, chipmunks, or any of those kind...then you have seen this movie.
 
TheDinoman

TheDinoman

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Oct 25, 2017
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Honestly it was fine back in Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, especially since the human characters weren't even full blown realistic back then like how they were in Sonic 06.

I do think a lot of people need to be reminded of the context SA1 released in. As in, it was practically a living Dreamcast tech demo. So many of the design choices in that game was designed around that fact, hence the more "next-gen" realistic settings. At the time, it was really impressive.
 
Aether

Aether

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Jan 6, 2018
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Mesoian said:
This is also a big part of it too. By hook or by crook, the movie studio listened to fan outcry.

Sonic Team don't give a fuck what fans think.
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to be honest, i feel like team sonic at least have...some kind of passion? its juvenile in some aspects,
and not greatly reflected. but you feel it. Its just that they probably never got the budget/time
they needed from sega i feel. Just remember, sonic 06 was rushed WHILE spliting the team to
work ond sonic and the secret rings while being their first HD game.
no developer could have safed that.

Thats why im cautiously optimistic with Frontiers. They take their time,
if the leaks are true then the basic concept stands for as long as some
games where in development, and they are not rushing it.
Now lets see if they can deliver. IF they cant now, then the team needs a big shake up.
 
LewieP

LewieP

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Oct 26, 2017
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The movie was a very cynical and calculated modern CGI creature in the real world kids movie. It also just so happened to be a very well done execution of that formula, elevated by a fairly snappy script, Jim Carrey chewing the scenery to maximum effect, and the correct decision to respond to fan backlash against the original character design.

I'd personally be far far more interested in a movie that invited us into Sonic's world (something that ie Detective Pikachu did very well, even if it had other issues).

But I don't think they're making either the original movie or the sequel for me.

With regards to games, I actually care far less about the setting and the art style, just give me a competently made game that is fun to play and controls well. They seem pathologically committed to not doing this.
 
Ashes of Dreams

Ashes of Dreams

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People have always and consistently overthought Sonic while also holding it to a weird standard. The debate about what "does and doesn't work" for Sonic has always been silly. I'm usually not one to do the comparisons to Mario because they're very different series but it is kind of funny to me that people just accept things like "oh yeah okay Mario is in a realistic city with normal sized people now" and the most it gets is some memes for a few months but Sonic gets like two decades of think-pieces and passionate rants.

Also Sonic X beat the Sonic movie to literally everything it did.
 
PucePikmin

PucePikmin

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Apr 26, 2018
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The Sonic movie works because it's specifically about a weird anthropomorphic hedgehog existing in the real world, and the situations that would arise from that.

The Sonic games, where it's revealed Sonic always just existed in the real world, and nobody questions it, and maybe Sonic has a thing for human ladies is still weird.
 
Aether

Aether

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Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Mesoian said:
Eh, FWIW, the combined on screen time of humans in both adventure games most likely is still exceeded by James Marsden's onscreen time in the movie. The difference is one is a hastily cobbled together mess of a world that has sonic plunked into the middle of it with no regard for how he and the rest of the world would interact, and the other is a fairly by numbers stranger in a strange land story that's all about that.
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Oh, im not oposit to that. i am shure there IS a version of game sonic that works.
As they position him and how they are aproaching it till not, its not.
In Adventure ays it still worked, simply since humans where sparse, robotnic had no human proportions,
and the overall vibe was ... early 20, a little bit "punk rock everything goes". And i sitll think that (Especially SA2) was a good game under a lot of jank and weird decisions. Searhcing emeralds was fun, shooting stages where getting sparce in that age, and Sonic/Shadow gameplay is still solid from back then.
 
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SilverX

SilverX

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Jan 21, 2018
13,506
HustleBun said:
It didn't end anything.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Sonic fan discourse.
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I'm well aware, but what does it mean in reality? Some fans actually argue why Amy has to become a playable character more than anyone else lol. There will always be whining and bizarre requests for the series (REMOVE THE GREEN EYES FROM SONIC!), but then there is actually something like this which is a clear example of how it absolutely works for the franchise
 
HustleBun

HustleBun

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Nov 12, 2017
6,077
SilverX said:
I'm well aware, but what does it mean in reality? Some fans actually argue why Amy has to become a playable character more than anyone else lol. There will always be whining and bizarre requests for the series (REMOVE THE GREEN EYES FROM SONIC!), but then there is actually something like this which is a clear example of how it absolutely works for the franchise
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Totally.
My point is no Sonic argument has ever really ended.
I heard plenty of folks regretting that the movie took place in the human world.
 
balb

balb

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Oct 30, 2017
638
the Sonic movie is basically an 80s/90s friendly alien comes to earth movie more so than a Sonic movie imo.
 
sibarraz

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Oct 27, 2017
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It works in the context of the movie because one of the main themes was how Sonic didn't fit at all in the main world, which works fine in a 2 hour flick, but I don't know if you can make a very compelling sonic game with that premise alone
 
jumper

jumper

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's one thing to say Sonic could work in a real world, but that's not to say his games are better served in the real world. I mean, if Sonic frontier plays well and everything, we can look past where the game takes place and still give it praise. Who knows, they might make its real world setting fun and memorable.

But part of Sonic's appeal early was it's unique level design that was imitated but never really matched. (I'd argue that many levels in subsequent Sonic games were lazy imitations too). And it wasn't just green hill zone, there's was spring yard zone and chemical plant zone, to make a couple, that were awe inspiring at the time. It's hard to articulate, but they were fresh designs, and I remember wanting to see what was around the corner in these worlds.

I'd rather run around these original and unusual worlds than something that looks almost exactly like earth.
 
balohna

balohna

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Nov 1, 2017
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I think some Sonic fans think that non/casual/lapsed fans have deeper feelings about Sonic than they actually do. I'm sure plenty of people have offhandedly remarked about this, but they probably didn't think too hard about it and may have even forgot they said it.
 
BabyShams

BabyShams

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Nov 7, 2017
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aerach71 said:
Now the argument is that sonic doesn't work in a video game setting
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SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

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Oct 28, 2017
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I like Sonic best when it takes itself seriously, but not too seriously. Real world humans are ok if they fit that mold (SA1, SA2) but not if they don't (S06).

I agree that the movie was good. The second looks really good
 
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