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I love Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI, but I can't tell if he's supposed to be mocking gay people.
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Bi-boy here, so I thought he was my favorite character in a jrpg since the ps1 days. I loved him, hes such a positive guy. Hes the only one that wants to be there rather then feeling like destiny and his relationship with his father was beautiful
I had a lot of reservations when he first appeared due to how flamboyant men are often handled in Japanese games, anime, and media in general but that was quickly brushed aside with how they handled him.
If you like his character don't let anyone take that from you.
I've heard a lot of good things about this game, I plan on grabbing it this year since I've been on a JRPG kick recently
I've heard a lot of good things about this game, I plan on grabbing it this year since I've been on a JRPG kick recently
He's not a mockery, and he's the consistently best character in the game.
He does lean in to heavy gay stereotypes with the camp aspect, but it's never really something that is used in a derogatory way. In fact, he's portrayed as a literal shining beacon of good. Sure it's also often seen as silly, and characters can find it weird, but ultimately the game holds Sylvando in as positive a light as it could.
The only possible issue is that the lack of other confirmed gay characters in the game could be taken as a statement that Sylvando is supposed to act the way all gay people act, but honestly, that's not necessarily a totally bad thing since the game puts Sylvando's outlook on a pedestal.
The main thing that Sylvando has in his favour however has been the reaction I've seen from LGBT+ people I follow. It's been almost universal adoration, and if a character can make people happy then I can't see it being a bad thing.
He does lean in to heavy gay stereotypes with the camp aspect, but it's never really something that is used in a derogatory way. In fact, he's portrayed as a literal shining beacon of good. Sure it's also often seen as silly, and characters can find it weird, but ultimately the game holds Sylvando in as positive a light as it could.
The only possible issue is that the lack of other confirmed gay characters in the game could be taken as a statement that Sylvando is supposed to act the way all gay people act, but honestly, that's not necessarily a totally bad thing since the game puts Sylvando's outlook on a pedestal.
The main thing that Sylvando has in his favour however has been the reaction I've seen from LGBT+ people I follow. It's been almost universal adoration, and if a character can make people happy then I can't see it being a bad thing.
Straight guy here so my opinion may be a bit skewed bu I think he was awesome. He was one of the best characters in a game with a lot of great characters. I never felt like he was a joke and his arc with his father was interesting.
Sylvando was an entertaining character and very effective. I think he was always on my team
I disagree he is mocking anyone you are reading too much into this fictional character
I disagree he is mocking anyone you are reading too much into this fictional character
I stopped playing because it felt like a lot of the characters were mocking stereotypes. Or is it just me?
Another aspect of Sylvando that makes him the best is that he's the only character in the party helping solely out of the goodness of his heart.
Luminary: He doesn't really have a choice. He either does this or the world ends.
Erik: The Seer tells Erik that if he helps the Luminary, then Erik will get the thing he wants.
Serena and Veronica: Descendants of Serenica and raised from birth to help the Luminary.
Rab: The Luminary's grandfather, and his kingdom was destroyed so it's not like he could just go home and do nothing.
Jade: A family friend who wants to make up for not protecting the Luminary when he was a baby, and, like Rab, it's not like she can go home.
Eight: Ordered to help and doing his job.
Then there's Sylvando, who is amazing and recruits himself to your cause just because he wants to make people happy.
Erik: The Seer tells Erik that if he helps the Luminary, then Erik will get the thing he wants.
Serena and Veronica: Descendants of Serenica and raised from birth to help the Luminary.
Rab: The Luminary's grandfather, and his kingdom was destroyed so it's not like he could just go home and do nothing.
Jade: A family friend who wants to make up for not protecting the Luminary when he was a baby, and, like Rab, it's not like she can go home.
Eight: Ordered to help and doing his job.
Then there's Sylvando, who is amazing and recruits himself to your cause just because he wants to make people happy.
The game mentions that Hendrik couldn't beat Sylvando in Knight Duels back when both were students in Puerto Valor, and in this world Hendrik is arguably the second strongest human after Luminary
As a gay man, Sylv was probably my favorite character. That said, I was extremely worried at first when he was introduced as I thought, "Oh great, another gay character who will be a joke the entire game." But he really grew as a character. Some of the scenes were hilarious, but I don't feel they were making fun of him for being gay. He was just proud of who he was. That said, I do wish Japanese developers would show different types of people that are gay, not just feminine gay people. Obviously there is nothing wrong with feminine gay people, but there's more to gay people than what is usually shown in the media.
Not at all, he may seem that way at first, and we all know how lots of other JRPGs represent gay people, but he is portrayed as a nice and cheerful guy. The story arc with his father is one of the few good story moments from the game, and the character is the only memorable, not totally cliché character from the game.
I wasn't really shocked at first sight, to me he felt more like the fabulous/flamboyant type of person, not a mocking.
I'm straight though, so my perception of his character can be wrong, of course. Feel free to correct me if that's the case. My history with him was only through a glimpse while watching someone streaming the game, so there could be context I'm missing out on.
I'm straight though, so my perception of his character can be wrong, of course. Feel free to correct me if that's the case. My history with him was only through a glimpse while watching someone streaming the game, so there could be context I'm missing out on.
I was pretty worried that would be the case before playing, but Sylvando's just a charming badass who isn't afraid to be true to himself in all his fabulous glory. He was basically a one man pride parade, until he was given a literal pride parade of course lol, yet somehow it never felt malicious or mocking to me.
I love Sylv, he's in my opinion the best character in the game. He helps just because he wants to do good, he's cheerful and positive and strong and he completely embraces who he is.
I just wish they would've openly acknowledged him as a gay character and not just hint at it. It feels like they kinda backed out at the last moment.
I just wish they would've openly acknowledged him as a gay character and not just hint at it. It feels like they kinda backed out at the last moment.
Never played this but he sounds like a character I'd like. Not banking on tired tropes. Conflicted, not weak. Fun, not a joke.
A little bit of stereotypes never hurt, as long as they're relatable. Some people are flamboyant, gay or not. Some people are stoic and never express emotion, gay or not. The latter would be pretty boring.
If you write a solid character, then the fact that they are gay, flamboyant, (or whatever traits they have) is secondary to their personality.
One reason why diversity is so important: It lets people see that it's okay to be different than what is considered "normal".
A little bit of stereotypes never hurt, as long as they're relatable. Some people are flamboyant, gay or not. Some people are stoic and never express emotion, gay or not. The latter would be pretty boring.
If you write a solid character, then the fact that they are gay, flamboyant, (or whatever traits they have) is secondary to their personality.
One reason why diversity is so important: It lets people see that it's okay to be different than what is considered "normal".
Sylvando's parade stands as my favorite JRPG moment of all time lol
I am pansexual and absolutely loved him. He could have easily been written in poorly, but he ended up being quite possibly my fav RPG character of this generation. Strong, confident and charismatic, while remaining flawed and having his own doubts and worries that the game works through. Plus the cast doesn't treat his flamboyance like there's something wrong (looking at you Persona), its just there. After the music and composer debacle I was considering writing the game off but am super glad I didn't.
Saying Sylvando is a mocking caricature is looking for something that isn't there. He is incredibly loved and world renowned performer, he is shown to be incredibly strong and capable, while also being flamboyant and silly. He is compassionate and empathetic, and never are these traits presented as a weakness or character flaw.
If just the sheer fact that he is unashamedly flamboyant and the game leans into that flamboyance makes you default to "caricature" then I would suggest that you reflect on your own biases, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with silliness or flamboyance or femininity. Sylvando is an embrace of all of those things, while also being an example of positive masculine traits.
If just the sheer fact that he is unashamedly flamboyant and the game leans into that flamboyance makes you default to "caricature" then I would suggest that you reflect on your own biases, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with silliness or flamboyance or femininity. Sylvando is an embrace of all of those things, while also being an example of positive masculine traits.
Sylvando is fantastic in my opinion. He's literally the strongest knight in the world because of his ability to see the duties of a knight to go above and beyond the strict tenets of chivalry. The story doesn't just say that he is great, he constantly shows that he is even better than what you might think he might be. I never saw it as a form of mockery by the way he always sets up his own jokes and commands the scenes he plays in. He displays his qualities and he works on his flaws. It's one of the better written characters in the game.
His arc with his father and how it tells a story of acceptance made me cry.
Overall DQXI has a stellar cast, loved every one of these rascals and I haven't felt that way in a loooooooong time.
His arc with his father and how it tells a story of acceptance made me cry.
Overall DQXI has a stellar cast, loved every one of these rascals and I haven't felt that way in a loooooooong time.
Hi, gay man here and here's my two cents (PS my opinions do not represent the entire community as we are all different and have different ideas and perspectives):
Although Sylvando is an empowering character, he's not exactly groundbreaking to me, especially considering this is Japan. He fits a lot of what is known as the "Okama" stereotype which is basically a masculine looking man who's main characteristic is an exaggerated sense of femininity. They're ususally quite predatory and often hit on the typically straight, male viewpoint character. Sylvando does not get creepy but he does tend to call the MC "darling" a lot and it does sort of bleed into okama territory. This is also a form of queer rep that I view as safe due to its general inoffensiveness to straight people, since the overly feminine gay man is what's expected. The game also doesn't explicitly acknowledge Sylvando is gay, but his use of the pronoun "atashi" (iirc, he uses this) is typically always used by okama characters. In a context where the vast majority of gay male rep is often okama stereotypes (unless it's BL or bara), I don't think Sylvando is great and I sort of rolled my eyes when I saw him and said to myself "of course this is going to be the gay rep." That said, I do think it's important to have positive rep of okama stereotypes because femininity should be seen as empowering, but to me as a gay man it's frustrating because that's historcally been our default as far as gay rep is concerned and it comes from a stereotypical way of thinking that often keeps gay men who don't fit that criteria in the closet. I think we need more diverse forms of representation, if we had that then I would see Sylvando as more positive. Whether or not he's offensive I think will come down to who you ask and how they feel about stereotypes.
Although Sylvando is an empowering character, he's not exactly groundbreaking to me, especially considering this is Japan. He fits a lot of what is known as the "Okama" stereotype which is basically a masculine looking man who's main characteristic is an exaggerated sense of femininity. They're ususally quite predatory and often hit on the typically straight, male viewpoint character. Sylvando does not get creepy but he does tend to call the MC "darling" a lot and it does sort of bleed into okama territory. This is also a form of queer rep that I view as safe due to its general inoffensiveness to straight people, since the overly feminine gay man is what's expected. The game also doesn't explicitly acknowledge Sylvando is gay, but his use of the pronoun "atashi" (iirc, he uses this) is typically always used by okama characters. In a context where the vast majority of gay male rep is often okama stereotypes (unless it's BL or bara), I don't think Sylvando is great and I sort of rolled my eyes when I saw him and said to myself "of course this is going to be the gay rep." That said, I do think it's important to have positive rep of okama stereotypes because femininity should be seen as empowering, but to me as a gay man it's frustrating because that's historcally been our default as far as gay rep is concerned and it comes from a stereotypical way of thinking that often keeps gay men who don't fit that criteria in the closet. I think we need more diverse forms of representation, if we had that then I would see Sylvando as more positive. Whether or not he's offensive I think will come down to who you ask and how they feel about stereotypes.
There are flamboyantly gay people who have no shame about being gay and wear it very obviously on their sleeve.
I'm not gay so I can't really call it, but I am black. If I see a really well done black character with a great arc, I'm probably not going to slam it because they had them say "yo" or wear a hat backwards or have like a gold chain on or something. I feel like that's in the same wheel house. Did they make him an idiot? Did they make him a brute? Is he the butt of all the jokes? If they need a character to be a scumbag or weak or somehow a loser in this scenario vs the other characters in the party, does the plot always make it him? That'd make me feel a type of way more than like the ultra superficial top-level stuff like dialect and costumes.
I'm not gay so I can't really call it, but I am black. If I see a really well done black character with a great arc, I'm probably not going to slam it because they had them say "yo" or wear a hat backwards or have like a gold chain on or something. I feel like that's in the same wheel house. Did they make him an idiot? Did they make him a brute? Is he the butt of all the jokes? If they need a character to be a scumbag or weak or somehow a loser in this scenario vs the other characters in the party, does the plot always make it him? That'd make me feel a type of way more than like the ultra superficial top-level stuff like dialect and costumes.
As a straight dude, I think Sylvando fucking owns. I love that we can celebrate an over the top flamboyant character. He's powerful, smart, and valued by the the characters in the game.
He, in my opinion, always came off as more of a celebratory character than he did a caricature.
He, in my opinion, always came off as more of a celebratory character than he did a caricature.
I think Sylvando is the strongest (as in best, but also in strenght) character in DQXI. He is the way he wants to be and is amazing at that.
I think it might be more wariness than biases. I can understand that he might present himself in a way that has a long and spotty history in japanese games, but though Sylvando is not a subversion, he is definitely written with the sincerity that he is a person deserving of genuine treatment. He's not the joke, he makes the jokes.
Yea that outfit plus her puff puff animation makes me shudder, even as a straight male. Sigh, does Veronica ever regain her old self? She is by far my favorite character next to Sly.
I am gay and think he is an incredibly well done character. He is loud and proud and while I'm sure they amped him up some, I am not offended at all and don't feel it's in bad taste. He literally steals almost every scene he is in and that's not always because he is doing something insane or being super flamboyant. It's hard to put into words but he just works as a character and I love him :)
'Nother gay person chiming in. Haven't played DQXI, but it sounds like Sylvando is positive representation.
Effeminate men — regardless of sexuality — are no less deserving of representation than masculine men, or men who aren't particularly masculine or feminine. It's true that effeminate portrayals can become problematic if they're the only form of representation, such that it contributes to the stereotype that all gay men are effeminate. But that's more indicative of wider societal ignorance than a problem with a specific character like Sylvando. Unfortunately, in my experience, Japanese games do cling to stereotypes when it comes to LGBT+ folks more than their Western counterparts these days.
The biggest problems with LGBT+ portrayals in gaming is them (1) still being relatively uncommon, (2) almost always being singular characters, never showing healthy relationships, and (3) being phobic, either treating LGBT+ people with contempt or mockery, or propagating the idea that they're predatory (looking at you, the ever popular yet disgusting Persona 5).
Keeping in mind I haven't played the game, if there seems to be anything less-than-perfect about Sylvando, it's that he's yet another singular gay character, contributing to the dearth of gay relationship portrayals. (But not all characters need to be in relationships, so again, more indicative of a wider problem than with that character.)
Effeminate men — regardless of sexuality — are no less deserving of representation than masculine men, or men who aren't particularly masculine or feminine. It's true that effeminate portrayals can become problematic if they're the only form of representation, such that it contributes to the stereotype that all gay men are effeminate. But that's more indicative of wider societal ignorance than a problem with a specific character like Sylvando. Unfortunately, in my experience, Japanese games do cling to stereotypes when it comes to LGBT+ folks more than their Western counterparts these days.
The biggest problems with LGBT+ portrayals in gaming is them (1) still being relatively uncommon, (2) almost always being singular characters, never showing healthy relationships, and (3) being phobic, either treating LGBT+ people with contempt or mockery, or propagating the idea that they're predatory (looking at you, the ever popular yet disgusting Persona 5).
Keeping in mind I haven't played the game, if there seems to be anything less-than-perfect about Sylvando, it's that he's yet another singular gay character, contributing to the dearth of gay relationship portrayals. (But not all characters need to be in relationships, so again, more indicative of a wider problem than with that character.)
You are right, it could also just be wariness and that is a very valid concern given Japanese media representation of gay men in general. That said, Sylvando is incredibly genuine and his portrayal in the game is so blatantly positive, that I'm simply saying that there is no evidence for him being a mocking caricature in the game itself. You hit the nail on the head though, the player is never meant to laugh at him, only with him.
Sylvando was my favorite character of 2018. He's just impossible to dislike. There's so much positivity, strength, sincere vulnerability, and joy to his character. I love how unabashedly flamboyant he is. I didn't feel like he was a joke character at all.
This does raise an interesting question: does a character need to call attention to their sexuality to be a positive portrayal? Sylv never really seems to want to dwell on things that aren't the mission, and he's not really a flirty person in general, but at the same time, I don't remember him ever actually confirming his sexuality in any way, which could itself be a means of the devs trying to avoid taking a firm stance on the whole thing.