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I LOVE Xenoblade Chronicles 2, but the game has serious issues (SPOILERS INSIDE)
- Thread starter Master Chuuster
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OP
OP
I absolutely agree. When the game's good, it's fucking incredible. Like, if we're talking about scores, for example, if I break it down and look at it objectively, I would have to give it something like an 8/10, but in my heart I know it's so much closer to a high 9. I love the game, I guess that's why the issues bother me even more, because they mar what is otherwise one of the best RPGs I've played in years.
You know, I can still make peace with her not being dead at the end. I mean, I don't personally like it, but given the tone and the themes of the entire game that preceded that scene, I guess it kinda makes sense. But having her come back as two separate characters makes no sense at all, which I guess you agree with(?). It very, very stupid, just ridiculously dumb.
Lol
Oh yeah, that's something I forgot to mention. It's weird that there was no way to go back and look at the tutorials, especially given how many there were and how complex the game's systems are. Halfway through I had to start consulting a guide to be able to properly understand all the systems in combat (but maybe that's just me). Once I understood it though, it really clicked for me. It's one of the best combat systems of this gen, I think.
But yeah, the tutorials, the map compass thing, basically the whole UI is just a complete mess.
SPOILERS AHEAD
I really liked chapter 4, and i don't see it as unnecessary for the story. Tora is a partymember and his backstory belongs to the story of Xenoblade 2. Poppi plays a role in the game. But also Bana was an antagonist who played a role in the plot and they built machines for Malos there.... And it gave a reason to team up with Morag, explore Mor Ardain, learn to know the King/Emperor of Mor Ardain etc.
As for the pacing i don't have much complaints compared to other JRPGs. Every chapter had story cutscenes and something interesting going on. The chapter 7 dungeon wasn't that bad either, if only i had found the right way at my first try. But it was wellmade and an adventure, deep down in the titan.
The problem for most people was the bad explained "tutorial" in my opinion.
I hope for a bigger budget and more time too, even when i have mostly other reasons for it (i would more complain about the technical side of things and the world, even if it was good, it could have been better and a part of the problem probably was that only 40 Monolithsoft employees worked on that game and the rest was outsourced; I love Breath of the Wild Nintendo, but give back Takahashis full team)
I still dont know why everyone keeps on wanting pyra/mythra to die no its dosent complete there arc they LITTEARLY wanted to die before they met rex they already sacrificed enough during the war that was what brought them to that state in the first place. Rex arc is that he cant save everyone by himself and that he needs ro trust he already went through the scenario you stated TWICE him acutally trusting Pnuma was the lesson making them die would have been redundant. For gods sake not every game needs a sad ending.
X, for sure. It's too big a cliffhanger for how much information they thrust upon you in the final moments. For as much consternation that the happy ending causes in 2, it's a proper conclusion and successfully concludes the story without that much hanging around.
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The ending would have been fine if Pneuma had been just Pneuma. The fact that she came back as two different people was just so ridiculously stupid, I guess that colours my opinion of the entire sequence. I mean, I personally don't like the fact that she came back, but I understand how it makes sense given, well, basically the entire game. But given the entire game, her coming back as two different people also makes zero sense. That's the part that really bugs me.
Who is saying it's a 10/10 in here? I think nearly every post in here mentions the game has issues. Hell, I think it's pretty much a high 8/10 myself and for all the updates we've gotten so far, it's still got some lingering issues like the quest tracker still being functionally broken.
The posters point was that the reviews were more accurate about the game's flaws then the fans, not that they said the game was bad.
XCX without a doubt since despite of the flaws that XC2 has concerning polish, none of them were as gamebreaking as the huge pacing and story problems XCX had which is constantly noted in the bad word of mouth the game had after release and is the complete opposite of XC2.
That too, there are good sad endings, there are sad endings that are only depressive as fuck. I wouldn't have wanted those girls dead. Only monsters demand that. Also it feels like there are enough bad endings in JRPGs this gen, it's not a way to stand out anymore.
Ending comparison Xeno 1 and 2:
Imo they are very similiar to be honest.
But who is brushing past the flaws, though? It's a weird point to make in a thread that's got plenty of criticism to go around, even from those who otherwise enjoy the game.
Pyra and Mythra being resurrected at the end does not in any way undermine the impact of the sacrifice they made. For the characters at the time the sacrifice was real and had permanent implications, and the point was for Rex and Pneuma to be able to make the decision to accept that it had to be that way. This completes their character arcs into fully self-actualized people. Whatever happens afterward has no impact on the fact that they were able to make that difficult decision.
At the time the sacrifice was final. Malos explains in Chapter 7 that Pyra's bluff in Chapter 6 was that she would completely remove herself from her core crystal and use the remaining data inside to restore Rex's heart. She had to remove herself from the core crystal and sever her link to it so that her death would not kill Rex. Her plan would render her core dead and useless. That's what she did at the end of the game. So her death was a real death.
As for her coming back having no logical explanation, of course not. It was a miracle; a literal miracle. The song that plays during the credits is Pneuma begging god to allow her to continue living. God answers her prayers, likely as a gift for saving the world, and a ball of divine energy is seen flying down from the sky and entering the core crystal. As a bonus, god granted Pyra and Mythra their own separate bodies. This is a pretty small drop in the bucket compared to other things god's power does in the series.
If anything, the happy ending makes the most sense, since it allows Rex, Pyra, and Mythra to capitalize on the growth of character they gained from making the decision they did.
It's like with the mythology Xeno games are based on. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son and stopped him before he went through with it. The importance wasn't the sacrifice itself but making the choice. Or with Jesus. He dies but is resurrected. Dying wasn't the important part. It was going through with it. In that way, Pneuma dies for the sins of humanity and is rewarded by being resurrected.
Very much disagree. XC2 is the best-paced game in the series. Chapter 4 is a good breather after the heavy drama of Chapter 3. It has good character development for Tora, Poppi, and Morag and sets things up for things that happen later in the story (Torna's artificial blade army). Chapter 7, again, is a major development in Rex's character arc where he realizes that he's been wrong about his relationship with Pyra and Mythra. And it does a great job building up Nia. It's good for a story to not just be a straight line of rising action. The heroes need to fall and get back up again. If they just breezed to the end it would be boring.
Tora's a good character. Meh is a Nopon cultural thing. Tora has some perverted tendencies he got from his family but at least he knows it's frowned upon and tries to overcome it. His relatioship with Poppi is pretty endearing and I found them to be the most surprisingly likeable characters in the game. It helps that Tora is the most humble nopon in the series by nopon standards and looks up to his friends rather than down on them. The way Poppi is always dunking on Tora is great.
Zeke's early appearances are fun. Good use of gags. He's just a laid-back guy trying to act serious for Rex's sake.
This is an area XC2 improved greatly on compared to previous games. They cut back on the number of sidequest significantly and put more quality into the remainder. Sidequests absolutely should not go anywhere. You got execs saying this kind of game entirely has no place anymore and we should just have heavily guided experiences where the games practically play themselves. Part of what makes XC2 great is that it's old-school.
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The ending is fine. Pneuma is basically the blade master control at that point, making a core crystal with two blades inside shouldn't really be a problem.
I was okay with Chapter 4, but I'll agree with you about Chapter 7. I'm okay with a long ass dungeon, but they went that extra mile and handicapped your ability to do elemental combos, which is the actual fun part of the battle system. Everything from the end of Chapter 7 on is the best thing, though.
The first Xenoblade still has the best tutorials. You got full screen illustrations, could see them again from the main menu, and there were even optional tactical and hint tutorials that would appear in the menu but wouldn't interrupt you in the middle of gameplay. Don't even get me started on Chronicles X having vital gameplay system information that you had to read the digital manual to understand.
I was okay with Chapter 4, but I'll agree with you about Chapter 7. I'm okay with a long ass dungeon, but they went that extra mile and handicapped your ability to do elemental combos, which is the actual fun part of the battle system. Everything from the end of Chapter 7 on is the best thing, though.
The first Xenoblade still has the best tutorials. You got full screen illustrations, could see them again from the main menu, and there were even optional tactical and hint tutorials that would appear in the menu but wouldn't interrupt you in the middle of gameplay. Don't even get me started on Chronicles X having vital gameplay system information that you had to read the digital manual to understand.
Has anyone ever said it's a 10/10? Even the most ardent Xenoblade fans admit to loving it in spite of its faults. I've ever heard anyone say it has no problems, period.
That was a wild assumption anyway cause the reviews are split like the "fans" or gamers who played the game. They go from 3/10 to 10/10, there is no consensus between reviewers. Around half of the reviews are at 90 or higher and i guess its similiar for normal players, many love it, some find it good, some mediocre, some hate it. Different tastes.
If we're being honest, they've all got some stupid-ass problems in them. If for nothing else, it's one of the most consistent series in gaming today because they're all great games even with the issues they run into.
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From 40 to 100 with everything in between, like i said. Most liked it, but not all. The same goes for the fans of the Xenoblade series.
Good critique i'd say. Agree about the writing.I struggled to make it through the game for a variety of reasons, but overall i would say i enjoyed it.
Most frustrating thing, though, is field skills. Can't we just have them activate if we have the blade in the inventory (or wherever they live when not in the party)? The amount of times i sent a bunch on merc missions then come across field skills UGH. Or making t up a string of field skills then finding out you don't have the requirements for the last part. And some of the dialogue ones are completely pointless.
Also needed more Turters.
Most frustrating thing, though, is field skills. Can't we just have them activate if we have the blade in the inventory (or wherever they live when not in the party)? The amount of times i sent a bunch on merc missions then come across field skills UGH. Or making t up a string of field skills then finding out you don't have the requirements for the last part. And some of the dialogue ones are completely pointless.
Also needed more Turters.
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"Most liked it" is what consensus means though. Also, 84 out of the 87 scored reviews are 7 and above. As I said, seems like a pretty common opinion that it's at least a good game.
consensus
noun
- general agreement.
I can't recall if I have, but I wouldn't doubt if someone did. Either way the fan reception on Era is that the game is fantastic, one of if not the best JRPG of this gen, and worthy of appearing on the best games of 2017 list.
While most of the mainstream reviews painted it is a good game and nothing really beyond that.
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Would you say if you hate shonen anime that you may not be suited to like this game?
I hate shonen anime and well hate XB2. Coincidence?
Well I would agree with none of those. Well besides the fact that it was an Era top game. But I'm not sure if reviews would agree with it either. Which I think was the posters point.
But to be fair, that's your interpretation of the mainstream reviews.
Splatoon 2 is sat on the same metacritic score and is much loved and considered more than merely good.
Tropical Freeze, a game I have been convinced to buy due to the overwhelming positivity, scored just a single point higher.
Is The Lost Legacy just good because it got an 85 score?
I'm not trying argue with you, and I don't want to get into the weeds with it, I'm just making the point that many 'great' games got a similar score.
Its my interpretation yes, but did XB2 appear on a lot of GOTY list? Any from non Nintendo focused websites?
I just think it's pretty clear that XB2 is better recived by the gaming community then it was by reviewers. Which is fine, and it's not like that divide is huge or anything.
I don't play Nintendo games so I know nothing of those games. But in Lost Legacy's case yes I think the game is simply good. An 80ish score seems pretty correct to me. It's not great.
A metascore isn't an agreement between single reviewers. they would probably very well argue about their scores if one gives 90 and another 50. It's the same for players. If Rahxephon (which my attention was adressed at) or the original poster say reviews were more right than fans, i simply ask what reviews he means. The bad, the mediocre or the almost 50% 90+ reviews? I'm more on the 90+ side and find it very good and that is also representated in reviews.
Hey, I'm not trying to trip you up - I reckon we probably just interpret the scores in a different way. Anyway, let's not dwell on it. I've made my point and we move on. :)
On another note, the one thing I believe most people can agree on is the music. They absolutely smashed it with a really broad range of styles.
XC2 will be a really tough act to follow in that regard.
At the risk of sounding like too much of a cheerleader for the game, the December release meant that people already working on end of year lists would have had to put those on hold to give the game any serious recognition. And that's hardly a Xenoblade-exclusive issue (since we've got two back-to-back games now with December releases), since we've also seen games like Far Cry 4 and Mario Kart 7 get the short end of the stick due to releasing so late in the year.
Even TGA caps their consideration for games released that year to the end of November. It's hard to overcome what's effectively "the way things are done" for how long it's been like that.
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The fact that 84 reviews have a score of 7 or above doesn't imply agreement between users?
You'll still be getting tutorials in another 50 hours lol - though at nowhere near the rate you're getting them now.
Currently working my way through chapter 8. I hated the first four chapters. Thought about dropping the game but thanks to folks here and good old perseverance somehow made it past, wasting around 40 hours to get there. Still not sure I reallly like the main cast or the general tone of the game. The writing could be much better but the story has been picking up steam since the start of Chapter 5. I will definitely finish it. Making it one of the few JRPGs I have completed this decade.
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Yeah, it should have adressed the original poster you quoted, just thought you had the same impression that reviewers were more right on the flaws than gamers/fans. I honestly think the Xenoblade fans are more strict and even more divided than reviewers, but this could be an era/internet impression. I know fans who hate the game, others think it's the best part of the series.
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Thiiiiiiiiis. This is the meaning of the ending and the real end to Rex and Pnuema's arcs. Rex's fatal flaw through the game was his saviour complex and how his need to save people and do it himself kept getting people in trouble or killed. Him letting Pnuema go and do what she needs to do was Rex "becoming a man" and worthy of being Pnuema's partner. And on her end, it was her finally letting go of her guilt, her sadness, and her wish to die, by dying when she didn't truly want to, so Klaus grants her wish (how kind of him).
I will agree about some of the writing getting too close to "full anime" lol. However, the last couple chapters went full Takahashi, which I always enjoy, so I was more than happy with that.
And chapter 4. I didn't not like it, but oh god, why am I fighting a giant maid Gundam.
Edit: actually, no, I take it back about chapter 4. "Oh god why am I fighting a giant maid Gundam" was actually during bouts of laughter and smiling, so I wasn't a huge fan of the factory dungeon, however, the story had me laughing pretty consistently. Also, Poppi.
Finally, for me, not to harp on the characters designs again, but I still couldn't help but roll my eyes at Pyra and Mythra sometimes. All in all, I liked their characters a LOT so it was generally easy to look past it, but the size of their breasts are just...unfortunate haha. I will say that of the three, Pyra, Mythra and Pnuema, Pnuema was easily the best design.
All in all, I played it for 98 hours to finish the story, I'm not done with it yet, but I already miss it, and I just loved it.
ALSO, HUGE NEGATIVE: I still don't have KOS-MOS. >:(
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I agree with almost everything OP, but for myself I would highlight two main problems: Tora, being the super annoying char he is, I mean why put such a disgrace as this to such a charmful game. Hated everything about him; and sidequests: why the freaking fuck you do have to complete the mission and get back to the requester? OMG!
With that being said Xenoblade 2 is still the best JRPG I've played in years.
With that being said Xenoblade 2 is still the best JRPG I've played in years.
There's literally a tutorial right before the final boss fight lol
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that lol
Either way, the tutorials in the first 15 hours are literally non-stop. After that I guess it's more like one every ten hours, which is much less annoying :P
Man I fundamentally disagree with almost every one of your talking points. I respect your opinion and you made a helluva argument but, I still think you are wrong haha.
The first point is not something I will argue about. The whole Pyra Mythra thing can be split up however the game designers want. They made it pretty clear they were two separate consciousness throughout the game I thought. I don't see a problem with making them two separate people in the end. I actually found it satisfying.
I was engaged through all 90 hours I played Xenoblade 2. I never though it got slow (in fact the snowy Titan was one of the best imo near the end) and the extended tutorials were only applied when new parts of the combat system were introduced. One of the worst parts of the first game was the deluge of combat mechanics that were forced on you with little explanation. I thought this game handled it much better and had one of the best combat system in any JRPG ever made.
The one point I will agree with you on 100% are the side quests. There were some fun ones involving the Blades but for the most part they were all bullshit fetch quests with very little story thrown in. I did almost every one in the game and I regretted it for the most part. It was mostly just an excuse for more combat. They need to work on that.
The first point is not something I will argue about. The whole Pyra Mythra thing can be split up however the game designers want. They made it pretty clear they were two separate consciousness throughout the game I thought. I don't see a problem with making them two separate people in the end. I actually found it satisfying.
I was engaged through all 90 hours I played Xenoblade 2. I never though it got slow (in fact the snowy Titan was one of the best imo near the end) and the extended tutorials were only applied when new parts of the combat system were introduced. One of the worst parts of the first game was the deluge of combat mechanics that were forced on you with little explanation. I thought this game handled it much better and had one of the best combat system in any JRPG ever made.
The one point I will agree with you on 100% are the side quests. There were some fun ones involving the Blades but for the most part they were all bullshit fetch quests with very little story thrown in. I did almost every one in the game and I regretted it for the most part. It was mostly just an excuse for more combat. They need to work on that.
I dont get the hate for chapter 4. It is literally the beach/stupid-fun episode before the plot kicks in. XB2 is anime as fuck, and its awesome for embracing that. I hope monolith continues to experiment with design/storytelling. I wouldn't mind another serious and mature game like previous games.
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I guess I had a problem with it because on multiple occasions, the game flat out tells you that they're different facets of a single entity. Them showing up as two different people at the end just seemed to be serving the purpose of "oh look, super happy ending, Rex gets two girls!"
Thought I had read somewhere that Takahashi actually wanted to make multiple endings for the game, but dropped all of that except the 'good' one. I wonder if the reason those endings being slashed out of production is due to how tragic it is.
Anyway, best OST from the game:
Constantly remained on my playlist.
Anyway, best OST from the game:
Constantly remained on my playlist.