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Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,784
Detroit, MI
I love Obsidian, they're probably my favorite developer. Pillars of Eternity 2 is one of the best RPGs in recent memory and I adore titles like New Vegas, Alpha Protocol, and KOTOR 2. But TOW is probably open of the most disappointing titles I've played in some time.

It's a given that Fallout 4's cardinal sins are in its lessened emphasis on writing and storytelling with an extremely forgettable narratives. But I honestly don't think The Outer Worlds does this very well either. Outside of some pretty great companion quests and a few side quests, the main narrative completely takes a backseat until the very end where it comes to a screeching halt right as its finally picking up speed.

The game's anti-capitalist themes are shallow and rarely did I ever find myself questioning my decisions (big corporation bad, working people good). And I say that as a devout socialist. But what really stands out to me is the game completely failing to offer a sense of character or gameplay progression. Once you've played the first area, which is about 2-3 hours or so, you've played the entirety of what the game has to offer. Edgewater is a insanely representative vertical slice for the game at large. I quickly became an unstoppable god due to the game's inability to balance itself either through progression or design. I could persuade, hack, or lock pick my way through anything while also being able to easily dispose of any enemy with ease. Playing the game on Hard only made combat harder, but was still very easy.

This made the leveling my character and upgrading their stats feel trivial. I never felt like I was really progressing or felt any satisfaction from seeing that I gained a new level. This is compounded by the perk system, which is filled with wholly uninspired upgrades (X amount more damage, carry X more weight). In Fallout 4, I at least felt satisfied in knowing that my character was progressing towards some specific style of gameplay, doubly so with its unique perks that felt like they actually impacted how I was playing the game.

There's really not much satisfaction to be had at all in TOW, even when obtaining some of the games copious amounts of loot. There's very little variation in weapons and armor and they also never feel like much of an upgrade or change to the gameplay. There's nothing similar to the first time you get a suppressor in Fallout 4. Sure, there are perks like Cowboy that give you X damage improvements, but even those feel more substantial than the ones TOW offers due to its imbalance. Moreover, it has a lack of noteworthy adjacent to something like Mysterious Stranger.


Now I'm not saying Fallout 4 is a much better game by any means, it's still easily the weakest of the series. But I do think that for all the flack the game got (which was deserved), it still does a lot of why people play Fallout better than TOW.
 
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Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Fallout 4 is done by a bigger team with tons more budget. TOW could never compete in some aspects.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Oh yeah, easily.

Writing and choices go to Outer worlds

But sense of discovery, exploration, detail, joy of sneaking and stealing, stealth, the open world itself, Fallout 4 is faaaar better.

Outer Worlds really lacks the interactivity that makes Bethesda's games so meticulous.

Also V.A.T.S is superior to what Outer Worlds tried to do.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
TOW is Era's newest "This really well received game is actually bad" game, isn't it? Might be record time, it took BOTW a year for those threads
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Fallout 4 did everything in its power to be the exact opposite of what made New Vegas amazing.

i can only imagine what obsidian is going to be able to do with a budget. Will be amazing
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,427
Agreed OP. The loot in FO4 is infinitely more interesting than Outer Worlds too.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
For me, personally, the writing alone carries TOW. It's much better presented in terms of characters, dialogue, choices, etc.

Fallout 4 feels so flat in that regard and totally unremarkable.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,718
I can see it. I give em both 7/10.

The Outer Worlds felt lacking that magic to really send it home.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,424
Hot take. I hate all of those types of games.

Fallout 4, 3, Skyrim, the Outer worlds, witcher 3? Etc

All open world busy work.

......

I guess I'm in the wrong thread huh?
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
No, it isn't. Fallout 4 is a shallow game with "look all all these weapons (which have 0 fucking difference between each other, because the crafting system gives you a lot, but in the end, it's all the same). do the same thing again and again and again". It has trash dialogue system, shit story, and the only worthwhile character is a detective cyborg. It also takes a big dump on top of Fallout's lore...
 

iFirez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,576
England
I would call this a hot take, where it not for the number of others agreeing.

Fallout 4 was a solid, fun 7.5/10 experience for me when all was said and done.

The Outer Worlds was a insane romp across distant worlds with well written characters and abilities - which ended up being a strong 9/10 for me. Almost as good as New Vegas (my favourite 3D fallout game).

Those liking Fallout 4 more than TOW a probably wanted something different out of that game and that's fine, I'm sorry it didn't scratch that itch for you.
 
OP
OP
Haze

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,784
Detroit, MI
For me, personally, the writing alone carries TOW. It's much better presented in terms of characters, dialogue, choices, etc.

Fallout 4 feels so flat in that regard and totally unremarkable.
I agree with this but TOW is pretty huge step back compared to Pillars 2 and Tyranny

Those liking Fallout 4 more than TOW a probably wanted something different out of that game and that's fine, I'm sorry it didn't scratch that itch for you.

I wanted a well written, RPG with tangible character progression and something interesting to say. Instead I got a passable RPG experience with a rudimentary exploration of capitalism.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Agreed. Although TOW got it beat in its story and dialogue, it is weak in all other aspects that keep me playing. Fallout 4 as a sandbox open world kept me playing for hundreds of hours despite its flaws.

Far Harbor, however, blows all of TOW out of the water. One of the best things to come from Fallout.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,113
I think the disconnect is that the people who like the Bethesda developed games better are there primarily for the huge sandbox where you can go anywhere and fill a room with cheesewheels, and Obsidian isn't really even trying to make that type of game even if they seem similar on the surface.

Also Fallout 4 was pretty bad regardless.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,369
Trying to disagree with OP, which dialogue choice should I select?

A: I agree with you OP! Let's do this.
B: I disagree with you OP! However, I'm still in for your ideas. Let's do this.
C: Piss off! This is my topic now! On second thought ... I support you. Let's do this.
D: What's that? I don't understand what you're saying. PSYCHE! Let's do this.
 

Decarbia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,444
Lol fallout 4 was boring and god awful and it's basic narrative hook actively ruined the experience
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
Not that surprised. The Outer Worlds is the epitome of a safe, well made but overly simplistic that was ultimately quite bland. The more you play the more apparent how basic the systems and world design is. Basically the opposite of what you'd expect from Obsidian.

Fallout 4 had god awful writing and dialog trees but the loot and exploration was much better. St the end of the day they're both aggressively mediocre games.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,653
I'd say they're on the same level. Below average experiences. One is just buggier and longer and the other is just too easy.

FO4 did at least encourage some exploration while in Outer Worlds I just beelined to the objective and barely picked up anything along the way.
 
OP
OP
Haze

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,784
Detroit, MI
I think the disconnect is that the people who like the Bethesda developed games better are there primarily for the huge sandbox where you can go anywhere and fill a room with cheesewheels, and Obsidian isn't really even trying to make that type of game even if they seem similar on the surface.

Also Fallout 4 was pretty bad regardless.
That is exactly what obsidian was trying to make tho. This game may as well have a tattoo on its forehead that says "THIS IS A FALLOUT GAME" with how much it tries to get the point of it being a New Vegas spiritual successor across to the player.


It's like they sat down and looked at what people liked about New Vegas, what they felt was missing from recent Fallout titles, and simply didn't do a good job of executing that.
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
It absolutely is. Outer Worlds made me appreciate Fallout 4 a lot more than when I first played it.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,427
Loot, world, scale and certain gameplay elements are better in FO4. I think TOW does everything else better, especially writing and gunplay.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,775
Yeah, I enjoyed FO4 far more.

FO4 has pretty great gameplay at the end of the day. It's an excellent loot shooter, and the world is big, varied and fun to explore. A lot of the side quests especially are great. While TOW has better writing and role playing elements in general, I wouldn't even say the difference is THAT big. TOW allows you to become a god far too easily, which renders most of its RPG stuff almost irrelevant. And the writing while mostly sharp, is largely uninteresting. Most of the side quests are flat after the first planet, and the main story is whatever.

The aspects FO4 is better at, it's MUCH better at. There is not a moment in TOW's gameplay that I truly enjoyed and the story wasn't interesting enough to actually hook me and compel me to finish it.

Hell, I'd even say that Nick Valentine is better than any of the companions in TOW.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
I couldn't get in to Fallout 4 whatsoever. Wasn't sure whether it was overwhelming or simply boring with too much bloat. But TOW grabbed me instantly and had that Mass Effect feeling about it, and never lets go.
 

pezzie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,436
I agree, but I fucking loved Fallout 4. Not really for the writing but I did enjoy exploring Boston in that game.

The Outer Worlds has better writing than FO4, but it loses a lot of the magic that makes those games to me.

New Vegas is still my GOAT for these types of games though. Best writing AND great exploration.
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
Depends on what you played fallout for. If it was writing, characters, dialogue, and quest design then not even close. What fallout 4 did better was exploration and combat but even that was not that good. In my opinion fallout games were always heavy rpg games with shooting element but fallout 4 was a shooter with rpg elements tacked on. Overall, I think Outer Worlds is much better than fallout 4 but I do agree that exploration and combat was done better in 4.
I believe that with microsoft budget outer worlds 2 surpass new vegas and be the best 3d fallout game.
 

CopyOfACopy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,044
doing different builds was a great part of my fun in FO4 and the perks and stats don't matter at all in TOW

I was at a quest last night that had multiple ways to solve

1. Intimidate to get result
2. Hack to get result
3. Lockpick to get result
4. Mini Fetch Quest to get result

thru no specialization I had all 4 ways open to me to solve the problem
 
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Courage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
NYC
Everything about The Outer Worlds felt so much like a pale imitation of Fallout to the point of parody. A blatant attempt to stake claim to the void Fallout left in the safest way possible.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Nah

Fallout 4 is slow and uninteresting. It has a bit more depth to some of the mechanics but Outer Worlds is written better and feels way better to shoot things
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,959
California
After 34 or so hours, I decided that I didn't like FO:4. I gave it more than a chance and I could bring myself to keep going.

TOW on the other hand, I just finished it and I thought it was a lot better. The writing for sure is a lot better IMO - one of the main reasons I kept going. Admittedly, you can tell that it was a low budget game. Assets being heavily reused, world is not as well built out...but I loved it much more than FO.
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
I do not agree. I thought Outer Worlds had a better world(s) setting, story to tell and characters.

Don't enjoy the combat or the way loot is handled for either game.