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Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Like seriously, he's spent the 15 years I've known him coasting, bitching about his life, and not really doing anything to improve, jumping from one bad relationship to the next because of his fear of being lonely, not going for what he wants in life because of his fear of rejection, and basically just... not trying.

His older brother is married, successful, with two kids, and my buddy is bitching about it and how he wants to change his life (which he always does) and I just finally got tired of being a sounding board, and let him have it. He's always bitching about wanting to change this and that and just never does anything, just makes noise about it and wants a pity party and I basically just let him have it that at age 29, all his problems are self-created and self-inflicted and that he feels like a leech because he's being a leech and that all his friends have spent more than a decade trying to get him to change and see why his life is shit and he's spent all that time denying and not doing anything about it, and that's the reason no one but me hangs out with him anymore.

I kind of ranted for like forty minutes bringing stuff up over teh past ten years as examples as to why he's basically been failing life and how it was up to him to make the best of his situation and he consistently doesn't make an effort because he's more scared of failing than anything else, and that ironically enough is what turned him into a failure.

The quarter-life crisis is real.

Anyway, he broke down and started crying and I felt really awkward because I didn't expect that. He said he was gonna try to do better and then he left because his horribly abusive and shitty girlfriend called him to monopolize his time some more.

You weren't expecting him to cry from that? You spent 40 minutes ranting about his life and how terrible he is, and how he was ruining yours and others lives. It's one thing to feel like you're the problem in your own life, but to throw it in his face that he's a burden and hurting everyone around him would only compound the problems. A lot of people who suffer from anxiety and depression are very aware of what options they have to actually improve their life, but because they have that anxiety/depression it prevents them from actually going through with the steps. With anxiety, it can be paralyzing to take that step and it's easy to get stuck in your own head about the possibilities. Depression can do similar things where they feel like nothing they do can actually fix the issue, so they don't actually take the steps either. Whether its seeing a therapist, exercising, or just taking care of themselves more, depression makes it much harder to actually see the benefits in those. It's easier for him to say that therapists are too expensive than it is for him to explain that he doesn't feel like they can actually help him.

I can't speak for your friend personally, but when people reach out and have trouble making progress, it's not necessarily because they want a pity party, but they're desperate to find some kind of solution they haven't thought of or some way to actually take those steps forward because they're miserable. I get that you reached your breaking point after 10 years, and its not on you to fix anyone, but I don't think the way you went about this was really the best way to get him help. I'm not really a fan of the whole tough love kind of thing in general, it wasn't helpful in the slightest when I was struggling and just made me feel worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,216
This is my fear. He's likely going to take the rant as "proof" that trying, even if it's to try and explain his difficulties, as more ammunation that any action he takes will blow up in his face. As I said my earlier post, believing is seeing. If he believes he's bad, that anything he does goes wrong, as if his life is just one human case of Murphy's Law, he's prone to take the popping off not as an insight to change, but as proof of his prior belief. I did and sometimes still fall into this problem, and it's a serious issue when it comes to beliefs and self-image. This is why confronting people can produce cases where they "double down", and we already have a few posters giving anecdotal examples that this is precisely what's happened. In fact, while I used myself as an example, to show that examining beliefs and feelings can show us how we identify around them, I've seen in my own family a case where the failure to do that, and where confrontation was used, precisely destroyed any pipeline to fix the problem. Confrontation, as sincere as one may feel it, can actually make the problem worse, not better.

I mentioned my sister earlier and this is exactly why I don't say anything to her about it anymore. She's ends up just quitting she's trying to move towards if you push her to better herself
 

Lonewulfeus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
You weren't expecting him to cry from that? You spent 40 minutes ranting about his life and how terrible he is, and how he was ruining yours and others lives. It's one thing to feel like you're the problem in your own life, but to throw it in his face that he's a burden and hurting everyone around him would only compound the problems. A lot of people who suffer from anxiety and depression are very aware of what options they have to actually improve their life, but because they have that anxiety/depression it prevents them from actually going through with the steps. With anxiety, it can be paralyzing to take that step and it's easy to get stuck in your own head about the possibilities. Depression can do similar things where they feel like nothing they do can actually fix the issue, so they don't actually take the steps either. Whether its seeing a therapist, exercising, or just taking care of themselves more, depression makes it much harder to actually see the benefits in those. It's easier for him to say that therapists are too expensive than it is for him to explain that he doesn't feel like they can actually help him.

I can't speak for your friend personally, but when people reach out and have trouble making progress, it's not necessarily because they want a pity party, but they're desperate to find some kind of solution they haven't thought of or some way to actually take those steps forward because they're miserable. I get that you reached your breaking point after 10 years, and its not on you to fix anyone, but I don't think the way you went about this was really the best way to get him help. I'm not really a fan of the whole tough love kind of thing in general, it wasn't helpful in the slightest when I was struggling and just made me feel worse.

Given that OP framed his friend as a problem (the bitching), I find it hard to believe that the OP has the desire or empathy to adequately understand your post excellent though it is.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,722
Depression is real and serious. But we don't have enough information from the OP to conclude his friend was depressed.
Obviously but if I was in a similar situation I'd probably make sure he wasn't before taking 40 minutes to blame him for everything in his life. It's an avenue that deserves to be looked into.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,872
Sounds like you went in a bit too hard OP, to be honest.

It's actually pretty normal for someone to be a bit of a fuck up when they are 19 and even some years beyond that. It makes sense to bring those years up to make a general point, but a 40 minute rant seems a wee bit much.
 

Skeeter49

I wish Jim Ryan would eat me
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,297
Not as tactful as you could have been, but it sounded like he needed to hear this, and sometimes being harsh is the only way to get people to really listen. You were trying to help, and that's what important.

You need them to break through their walls, which it sounds like he's doing thanks to what you said, and really look at what you're saying, and using that info to make changes.
 

Matesamo

Member
Nov 1, 2017
270
Rhode Island
Fifteen years of standing by him before giving some much needed tough love and now OP is the real problem, lol. Best part is all those posts are from people making snap judgements about OP; they didn't even wait 15 seconds, nevermind 15 years, before speaking up with their honest opinion.
 
Nov 1, 2017
370
OP, in my opinion you should meet up with your friend again as soon as possible. I'm not going to say what you did was wrong, but it sounds like you gave him a full dressing down in response to a cry for help. When you are depressed/in a situation of abuse/lacking in self-esteem, simple solutions are hard to follow through on. If the relationship is important to you, you should let him know that you are still a safe person, and that you are willing to support him while he improves himself.

A close friend once gave me a dressing down calling me annoying and manipulative when I tried opening up that a seemingly perfect relationship I was in was in fact abusive. They apologized months later and I've 100% forgiven them, but I don't think I'll ever feel safe sharing anything painful with them anymore. Don't let those bad feelings fester.

And help your friend ditch his GF.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
OP what the fuck.

The man is crying because you apparently have all these answers. Be there for him. Life is fucking hard and it's not so smooth for people. The fact that this person is complaining isn't an issue maybe he needs a friend. Be one.

People in this thread are acting like crying in front of someone is some rare as fuck thing, no wonder men feel lonely these days.
 
Sep 28, 2018
1,073
Okay, so you tore him down... You told him why he is shit, hopefully it was constructive and not just calling him a useless cunt...

He's at a crossroads. Now, he is at his lowest ebb, the best thing for you to do would be to help build him back up.
 

Horned Reaper

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,560
I can't speak for your friend personally, but when people reach out and have trouble making progress, it's not necessarily because they want a pity party, but they're desperate to find some kind of solution they haven't thought of or some way to actually take those steps forward because they're miserable. I get that you reached your breaking point after 10 years, and its not on you to fix anyone, but I don't think the way you went about this was really the best way to get him help. I'm not really a fan of the whole tough love kind of thing in general, it wasn't helpful in the slightest when I was struggling and just made me feel worse.

It does depend on the person though, it's not like all depressed people should be treated the same. Personally I wish I had a friend like that having been in a similar situation. All the nice advice talks and friends and family wanting to help me out treating me like a kid only made me feel worse. I'd rather wouldve had them scold me for being a childish pussy than them treating me like it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
I've genuinely been pondering that since. I heard he had a suicide attempt back in high school, but I never asked him about it and that was 15 years ago. I've recommended he see a therapist for years, but he won't which pisses me off. He'll spend a couple hundred a bucks a month on booze and partying and now financing a new car, but he refuses to see a therapist cause "it costs too much"

I think he has depression and I've asked that much but he told me no.

My girlfriend and best friend have both asked why I spend so much time with him when it's clear he won't change and I honestly didn't have an answer. Shit is frustrating.

He already had an attempted suicide in high school?

He most likely has untreated depression. He's not avoiding seeing a therapist because it costs too much (I mean you already know that excuse was BS), he's probably afraid of therapy in the first place. Reaching out to see a therapist and going through the process of getting on a waiting list and finding a good one is quite the ordeal, and that's even before the therapy itself begins.

I'm not saying you should be his personal therapist and solve his problems for him, but getting roasted by a friend with a detailed report on what a fuck-up you are...that's like the worst nightmare come true for someone with depression. You could've handled it better tbh
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,475
You need to make sure to follow up and tell him 'baby steps'.

Start small, keep one job or finish one course day by day or whatever, and build up to better times.

Sounds like he's wasted a lot of time
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
If I was yelled at by a friend in the last few days I would've thought I'm that friend you're talking about OP, lol. I don't think I complain that much though, I know I fucked up.
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,609
Saskatchewan, Canada
OP what the fuck.

The man is crying because you apparently have all these answers. Be there for him. Life is fucking hard and it's not so smooth for people. The fact that this person is complaining isn't an issue maybe he needs a friend. Be one.

People in this thread are acting like crying in front of someone is some rare as fuck thing, no wonder men feel lonely these days.

Men crying in front of someone is still rare as fuck to the point it makes most of us incredibly uncomfortable when we see it. I've seen my dad cry maybe 3 times my entire life and every time it was awkward and uncomfortable as fuck.

I do agree men need to be more compassionate with each other though. Women seem to always be there for each other where if you're a man you really feel like you're on your own most of the time.

Having said that I also see where OP is coming from as I have dealt with a friend that is exactly the same. Constantly complaining about his life and his lack of luck with girls but whenever you try and give him advice he gets extremely defensive and starts attacking everyone else. He's 24 now, still lives at home with his parents and has no job last I heard. If someone refuses to see what their own problems are and try to do something about them there's nothing anyone can really do to help them.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
You just destroyed a dude and you're wondering why he is crying? I'm not saying you were wrong. Everyone has a boiling over point. But if you really do care about this person you need to communicate to them why you lost your shit in a more kind hearted way. He heard the hard truths, but now if he believes he is truly alone and without worth nothing you said is going to matter, it may just have been far more detrimental.
 

Deleted member 11626

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,199
40 minutes and then come to Era to brag about it? Yeah, add friends to his list of bad choices.

No kidding. Stop looking for some external validation. If you're his friend then you're not throwing his personal shit on the internet for everyone else to berate and looking for a bunch of randos to tell you that you did the right thing.

There's nothing wrong with showing people you care about some tough love. But what he is or isn't doing in life is the business of nobody on this board.
 

nemoral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
Fiddler's Green
There are about a million ways to help a person see that they need to make changes, and being an asshole to them is just about the worst. You don't seem like a very good friend.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
The concept of 'failing your life' is an invention. His happiness is what's important. Tell him to do what makes him happy.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915

That's what friends do when they care about you. Good on you OP, it should give him some momentum to improve, as it seemed like he knows that it's true and just doesn't know what to do.

But now that you've got him to acknowledge this, you need to make sure he knows you will be there to help him through, to help him improve. Ultimately he must make the changes, but a steadying shoulder is always appreciated.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,951
Tough love. Some people need a good hard smack in the face with reality. Either he realizes it and actually does something about it or he'll continue on the same path. Can't help anyone who refuses to help them self, bottom line.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Damn, no one posted a gif of that intervention dad crying like Chewbacca? You showed him some tough love OP. More friends should be like this.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
His fear of failure could be the result of some trauma or belief he's had conditioned in his life. Many people carry these types of beliefs incognito. His fear of rejection probably comes from a belief of rejection, and then identifying around it. Ranting at him won't help; he'll be where he is in another three months with no change even if you feel you "made a mark" with what you did. A better solution would be to seriously, deeply investigate the feelings of rejection and more importantly - and frequently overlooked - is to examine where those feelings spawned in his life. His fear of trying says he's either had an experience or has had a profound belief of being seriously burned. The best help is to truly examine that.

In fact, next time you talk to him, ask him to map out how familiar that feeling of failure is in his life, and if possible, ask him when was the first time he felt it so strongly. If it's catered to an experience, it's probably that experience and that one alone that started the belief, and thus the continuous problem of "seeing is believing" that's left him in a rut for so long. This was my issue for 15 years as well, though I can assure you that I'm not the friend you talked to, OP. I figured my issues out with self-inquiry, even if I haven't deconditioned them all yet. Mine was a serious identification of being a "less-than" due to a traumatic middle school experience, and one would be shocked how something so long ago, so unrelated to where and what one is right now, can help shape and morph their own lens of perception.
And this is why OP's best chance of fixing his friend is to get him into therapy. I doubt OP is equiped for leading someone through this kind of analysis. Maybe now that his friend has been broken down, he can get him to spend some of that beer money on getting real help.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Telling OP he did a good job, when the OP later says he heard his "friend" has at least had one suicide attempt in his life is hmmm
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,232
You've probably caused more harm than good, especially if he suffers from depression.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
If someone ranted at me for 40 minutes I don't think i'd walk away with a positive mindset, or bother trying to truly comprehend anything after 7 minutes
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,123
I want to say that you did a good thing, but he probably already knew himself everything you said to him, only hearing it from you made thing worse.

I hope that at least he is able to pick himself up after this.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,915
People in this thread are acting like crying in front of someone is some rare as fuck thing, no wonder men feel lonely these days.

It actually is pretty rare for guys. We are emotionally stunted. Don't show fear, don't show weakness, anger is okay though but make sure you crush the competition with it, etc.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
It actually is pretty rare for guys. We are emotionally stunted. Don't show fear, don't show weakness, anger is okay though but make sure you crush the competition with it, etc.

I guess...

Before coming out as trans I would cry all the time haha. When I would cry at work sometimes guys would say some cliche motivational shit. Girls never really cared and think it's weird.

I cry a bunch every day anyway (like watching movies) so I guess I don't really know.

OP sounds like a dick.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
It actually is pretty rare for guys. We are emotionally stunted. Don't show fear, don't show weakness, anger is okay though but make sure you crush the competition with it, etc.

I guess...

Before coming out as trans I would cry all the time haha. When I would cry at work sometimes guys would say some cliche motivational shit. Girls never really cared and think it's weird.

I cry a bunch every day anyway (like watching movies) so I guess I don't really know.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
i've been in this situation a thousand times. normally i don't comment on this stuff because there's no way to tell what's truly going on but the clinging to shitty relationships thing raised a flag with me

seems like it's just going to be groundhog day with this guy and hard truths need to be applied, and that's what real friendship is about. i mean i dunno, maybe he's on the verge of doing something terrible, maybe you did go over the line in that regard... all above my paygrade. but you have to break the spiral somehow and it's not going to be pretty
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
A friend of mine stopped talking to me months ago. Just ghosted me.

I kind of wish he yelled at me so I'd at least know if it was my fault.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
That sounds like a horrible thing to do to your friend. The fact you have a friend you'd do that to plus the way you framed doing that horrible thing makes it sound like you're not really his friend and you keep him around to feel better about yourself.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
His fear of failure could be the result of some trauma or belief he's had conditioned in his life. Many people carry these types of beliefs incognito. His fear of rejection probably comes from a belief of rejection, and then identifying around it. Ranting at him won't help; he'll be where he is in another three months with no change even if you feel you "made a mark" with what you did. A better solution would be to seriously, deeply investigate the feelings of rejection and more importantly - and frequently overlooked - is to examine where those feelings spawned in his life. His fear of trying says he's either had an experience or has had a profound belief of being seriously burned. The best help is to truly examine that.

In fact, next time you talk to him, ask him to map out how familiar that feeling of failure is in his life, and if possible, ask him when was the first time he felt it so strongly. If it's catered to an experience, it's probably that experience and that one alone that started the belief, and thus the continuous problem of "seeing is believing" that's left him in a rut for so long. This was my issue for 15 years as well, though I can assure you that I'm not the friend you talked to, OP. I figured my issues out with self-inquiry, even if I haven't deconditioned them all yet. Mine was a serious identification of being a "less-than" due to a traumatic middle school experience, and one would be shocked how something so long ago, so unrelated to where and what one is right now, can help shape and morph their own lens of perception.

He's his friend, not a trained psychotherapist.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
It actually is pretty rare for guys. We are emotionally stunted. Don't show fear, don't show weakness, anger is okay though but make sure you crush the competition with it, etc.
I cried for three days when my cat ran away and my roommate started crying watching a kid catch a home run in a baseball game. You're not wrong about that societal expectation, though.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,483
You weren't expecting him to cry from that? You spent 40 minutes ranting about his life and how terrible he is, and how he was ruining yours and others lives. It's one thing to feel like you're the problem in your own life, but to throw it in his face that he's a burden and hurting everyone around him would only compound the problems. A lot of people who suffer from anxiety and depression are very aware of what options they have to actually improve their life, but because they have that anxiety/depression it prevents them from actually going through with the steps. With anxiety, it can be paralyzing to take that step and it's easy to get stuck in your own head about the possibilities. Depression can do similar things where they feel like nothing they do can actually fix the issue, so they don't actually take the steps either. Whether its seeing a therapist, exercising, or just taking care of themselves more, depression makes it much harder to actually see the benefits in those. It's easier for him to say that therapists are too expensive than it is for him to explain that he doesn't feel like they can actually help him.

I can't speak for your friend personally, but when people reach out and have trouble making progress, it's not necessarily because they want a pity party, but they're desperate to find some kind of solution they haven't thought of or some way to actually take those steps forward because they're miserable. I get that you reached your breaking point after 10 years, and its not on you to fix anyone, but I don't think the way you went about this was really the best way to get him help. I'm not really a fan of the whole tough love kind of thing in general, it wasn't helpful in the slightest when I was struggling and just made me feel worse.
In a vacuum, this makes sense, but we are talking about fifteen years which is literally over half of this person's life. At this point, the mindset, no matter where it originated, has pretty much been cemented into that person. I'm not a fan of tough love either, but something has to change. You have to imagine that any reasonable friends would have tried all of the things you've suggested.

I do feel like OP should have a personal stake in helping his friend get to therapy or whatever he needs, but I can't blame him for 1) not wanting to enable his friend any longer and 2) trying something, anything different.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Those of you who think OP did a good thing, I honestly don't think you understand how deeply scarring and painful words like that are. It doesn't matter if they're true. The fact that something is true doesn't give you free license to use it against people.

You know who thinks this kind of thing is a good idea? People who spent a ton of time on the internet dropping bombs on people they don't know because they can't see them.
 

MathLx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
153
Hi.
It took me 7 years before I realized there was something wrong with me. When I lost a dear friend, I realized my depression/trauma was distorting who I was and it was preventing me from achieving what I wanted to achieve.

It took me a year to get the courage to get help. Not only that, but I had to go through the process of filing a complaint against the person who raped me. It was one of the most difficult things I did in my life. I still feel guilty for not being "good enough" to deal with everything alone, without therapy.

You don't know what your friend might have been through. Just ranting for 40 minutes and telling your friend how much of a fuck up he is is probably the worst thing you can do. I've had friends do that to me, as I was going through the process of finding a good therapist. It hurts so bad, you wouldn't believe.

You should call your friend and tell him you're sorry. Tell him you were feeling overwhelmed and you're just worried for him.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Tough love works when it's a short, direct barrage of truth followed by actual help.

It doesn't work when you just rant for 40 mins at someone about how much if a pussy and failure they are.

You have no obligation to help OP but if you made this topic you clearly care to some extent.