Agree
Opinions, amirite?
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I want more N64-style Zelda games.
- Thread starter Angst
- Start date
I'll never fail to be amused by the die-hard BotW fans that almost seem personally offended that someone didn't consider it to be the best game ever.
I think they will definitely return to having dungeons, but they will be more Hyrule Castle than Forest Temple.
Were dungeons really that long? It's been a while since I played those older Zelda games. I remember them being challenging though and figuring things out could take a while.
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Wow this is actually a real cool idea. It might be hard, but I think it would be neat to have an underground dungeon you approach from different openings in the hub world, and you solve various puzzles to "reach" the center.
Just an idea that played off of yours. I really liked your suggestion above and it made my mind wander
Dungeons could take 1-2 hours. I get why BotW went with shorter ones.
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Not long enough that you couldn't beat them in a single day of the 3 day cycle without slowing down time. Thats pretty short.
"I can't roll my eyes harder" is being passive aggressive, not disagreeing.
Yeah, definitely. It's what Aonuma alluded to as well when he first announced Zelda U. I would like for that to happen. And this would also solve the progression problem (give each dungeon a critical path depending on one power or item, but have those be bypassable, via alternate paths that can be used, but are harder/longer).
I think they should definitely do something like this, because it would suit the BotW style as well.
They had the correct length for a linear game like the old Zeldas, not for one like BOTW
Open world is not just a map concept, it is a game concept.
Give me OoT dungeon quality and quantity, bosses and music styles, and give me BotW map sizes, shrines and engine.
Yea, some people act like actually stunned that some people just dont find botw amazing.
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I guess the one nice thing about going the BOTW route is that nintendo has lots of room to innovate, the OOT style might need to be shelved (but not forever) to give it time to grow and new good original ideas to be formed that use that design.
My GOTY last year for that very reason.
Worst-case scenario, I wish they at least make Heart Pieces and Stamina Vessels separate so you don't know which one you'll get when doing a shrine. It's a simple thing but it would make the game more rewarding to me.
I can understand that some people dont botw. It had poor dungeons.
"Wasn't that great"
Truly a shining endorsement if there ever was one.
BOTW is basically a template, it can and will be iterated upon immensely. If BOTW is the Zelda 1 analog, then I hope for the next game to be our LTTP to its Zelda 1. All of which is to say, you can add structure and guided progression to a game like BotW without sacrificing what makes it great. I am eager to see where Nintendo goes now.
I'll admit it's kind of a hipster statement, but I don't give a fuck. I tried playing 20 hours of BotW from the start TWICE and I'm sure I'll finish it... someday, but that in itself is just telling me that I don't love it. It's missing some of the core Zelda reward systems in terms of progression and approach to design and its replacements are just not impressing me enough. It has that initial allure and sense of awe though - it just wears off...
I completely agree with this. Not to be harsh, but BotW is almost like a prototype. A really, super robust and finalized prototype that is a perfect blueprint for another game similar to it, but with just one or two more critical story moments that happen during its middle, better writing and better dungeons. The systems are now all there, and I hope they hold on to some of them, especially their simulative elements in the world.
Early into the game, I realized GoW was exactly what I originally wanted botw to be.
That'd be badass, yeah. I get why they didn't do that (Spirit Orbs are "EXP"), but I like your idea.
Do you, do you understand that others do like it, and just accept that? because given how you enter every BOTW thread to tell people who like it they are wrong, I am not sure you do (and honestly that is as tiresome as aggressive BOTW fans unable to understand people may not like it).
I don't care about being hipster or not about what I like/dislike. I like a lot of mainstream things, and dislike other mainstream loved things. I just didn't really like it.
I really just want to see a return of dungeons and even then I still want them to experiment with them a lot more. BotW needed a lot more dungeon zones. Yiga Hideout and Hyrule Castle were horrible teases of what could be but barely scratched the surface. The lack of more locations like these was a real shame and the exact kind of direction I would like to see them take dungeons. Though I do think there will always be a place for more traditional dungeons. Shrines were great, but to bite sized and lacked a good difficulty progression.
Second would be story and sidequests. OoT/MM/WW are still the pinnacle in Zelda story telling and the flashbacks in BotW were great but too divorced from the rest of the game to really have the impact they should have. Last thing I want is an over bloated narrative that butts in all the time like SS or TP, but having well placed interactions and cutscenes can be extremely effective. BotW was such a wonderful world but the level of interaction with NPCs was quite lacking despite so many being really wonderful and endearing.
Second would be story and sidequests. OoT/MM/WW are still the pinnacle in Zelda story telling and the flashbacks in BotW were great but too divorced from the rest of the game to really have the impact they should have. Last thing I want is an over bloated narrative that butts in all the time like SS or TP, but having well placed interactions and cutscenes can be extremely effective. BotW was such a wonderful world but the level of interaction with NPCs was quite lacking despite so many being really wonderful and endearing.
I feel exactly this way. BOTW should and will be the base for the next Zelda I think. BOTW's dungeons and boss fights are actually I think weaker than past Zeldas, but the overworld/open world is so far and away superior to past Zeldas that it revolutionized the series. BOTW is something new and that concept should be expanded upon.
For me BOTW with OOT style dungeons and boss battles and a good story would be the GOAT. Could be challenging because I think Nintendo has struggled a bit in terms of how to do dungeons and give players all those open-world tools early on, rather than as you complete dungeons. And because players have so much freedom in open world, they have to make the dungeons a little more confined and limiting.
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My only beef is it felt like I spent a lot of time just wandering around in BOTW. I really like having a bit more structure. Im hoping the next zelda sequel keeps it open world but gives me that structure I'm desperately craving.
Also unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I LIKE when areas are locked off to me until I get the appropriate equipment. Gives me a real sense of reward and progression.
Those kind of threads are so weird. It ask for more of the same, but don't really pin point what made them actually good. Only loose term like best desing and ritgh size.
I think the closest example I had to this "playing another game that turned out to give me my Zelda fix" was playing Arkham City. It isn't 1:1 a Zelda formula but man it's got some of the right ideas, especially in how there's a hub, it has side-content that is all optional, then the main story goes into "dungeons" which are themed locations with unusual obstacles that you can't seem to overcome, then you find a mid-point which unlocks Batman's new gadget and going back through the previously unexplorable areas become an empowering ride using the new ability, and finally facing a boss that uses the game's core mechanics in subversive ways until you're done.
Really, that's why I would want a "N64-made Zelda". The blueprint is there and the hub area vs dungeons is probably part of the code layout as is the slots for unique items that change what the player can interact with.
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I'm not great at thread creation yet, but it boils down to missing the smaller boxed in structure of the previous games and missing the linerality and progression the old zeldas had.
This has already been done in Zelda ALTTP: Skull Woods Dungeon
One thing that was getting very stale is the same fire/water/forest/desert whatever themes used over and over again as if they couldn't come up with new ideas. I would also prefer if dungeons were more like labyrinths where there is optional rooms and more paths you could take and not super linear like in Skyward Sword for example.
Also in general 3D Zelda games are a lot slower paced compared to 2D ones, just look at how quickly you can move between rooms in the 2D Zelda games. This makes 3D Zelda games have longer dungeons even when they have the same amount of rooms.
I definitely see Nintendo's conundrum: you make a go-anywhere world, and you still have to account for the player's power level without having hard levels or EXP in the game, I get why it was tough to balance the whole thing. I think BotW is an admirable answer to that question, but like I said, it's not the final answer, just the beginning to one. It can definitely be built upon further, and I hope that yes, a future Zelda game will take BOTW, but add more nuanced and elaborate dungeons and bosses to it. As a person who thinks Breath of the Wild is the greatest game ever made, I will be utterly disappointed if the next Zelda game is just... Breath of the Wild again.
I wouldn't want hard progression gating. What I think Nintendo should do is be willing to make some areas harder and some easier. If a player tries going into a harder area, getting their ass kicked is enough to dissuade them from attempting to go in again until they are stronger, and they'll automatically veer towards an easier area. In BOTW, Nintendo made the difficulty across all areas flat, which I feel is a less rewarding alternative.
Hopefully, they go the Hyrule Castle route, but with the whole world next time.
It's such a simple thing really, I really hope they do it. I also agree that we need to be able to find heart pieces in the overworld again, especially as side quest rewards since those were really lacking in BotW. I skipped almost every side-quest that wasn't a shrine quest for this reason.
Yeah, that's definitely not happening. The freedom of exploration is one of the most popular aspects of the game and the biggest reason why it was considered so revolutionary coming off of titles like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. You're not locked into a glorified hub where the dungeons are wheel spokes you can only enter in a set order.
Some people think they could have evolved the original formula instead of changing the entire genre.
A smaller BotW with less oversized parts of environments and again, a middlepiece to the main story's progression (rather than the plodding "flashbacks" to deliver a story that only happens when the player decides to trigger it) I think would be an interesting iteration on the BotW engine. However, I gotta be honest, I think the streamlining of Link's ability-set needs to go too. "The shiekah-slate does everything" replacement for unique items doesn't completely fix the previous issue of getting items that are redundant outside of the specific dungeon, so much as it just dumbed everything down and made the whole game more monotonous to go through.
BotW is in fact an evolution of the formula. A dramatic one. It's okay if you don't like said evolution, but evolution is what it is.
And they could have evolved it more.
It would be like if they made a new Fire emblem and completely changed the genre.
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But then I don't feel like there is any real sense of progression in the game. Link never got better at anything besides running longer and taking more hits. what you got in the beginning was it.
They didn't really change Zelda's genre, though. The format, sure. They opened up the world and changed the concept of dungeons and items around. But that's an evolution of taking what Zelda was. They looked at the two decades of Zelda titles since Ocarina of Time and evolved it.
It just wasn't an evolution in a direction that some fans particularly enjoyed.
