I went to a conservative Christian church yesterday
- Thread starter Mathieran
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I've come to the conclusion that US Evangelical Christians no longer worship Jesus and his ideas of "be good to everyone" and "help the poor"; instead they worship the US itself, or at least a perceived idea of the US where the rich are better than the poor and the whole "fuck you got mine" mindset.
Thanks for saying this, I was about to make a similar comment. People are burying their heads in the sand if they think this is just isolated to the Southern Bapist denomination. The kind of thinking and behavior that the OP describes is pervasive in many, many branches of US Christianity. I've been a member of Presbyterian, Episcopal, and non-denominational churches. I've attended countless services in Methodist, Lutheran, RCC, Baptist, and "mega church" varieties from NJ to SC to CA and everywhere in between. It's everywhere and growing. I'm old enough to recognize it's been around for a long time and recently become more bold and out in the open.
If you happen to attend a church that doesn't prescribe to hate speech and culture wars, congratulations, you've lucked out. I used to care about making a difference and fighting this trend, but the problem became so enormous and the hypocrisy too great to bear that I've checked out from Christianity for good. It's a lost cause in my opinion.
I went Episcopalian a few years ago after I came to terms with myself, and I've never looked back. I went from non-denominational to Episcopalian too.
I agree to an extent, you shouldn’t need to be constantly reminded by written rules about how to conduct yourself. There are somethings in it that socially weaker people may not quickly understand (not everyone is socially adapt and thats okay). Some concepts like the fact like not everyone who is kind is genuine, there are people who will fake tears to take advantage of others etc.
Spent my entire childhood and adolescence attending this type of Church. The Pastor actually tried to argue that carbon dating is inaccurate, that the earth is actually only a few thousand years old, that Darwin only came up with the theory of evolution because he was gay and therefore shunned by the church, and that, and I quote, "Homosexuality is at an all-time high."
It was actually the Gaf/Era community that helped me see the light, and finally decide to put my foot down and tell my parents that I could no longer sit in the presence of such ignorance. They still give me shit for it, but eh.
Thank you Era.
It was actually the Gaf/Era community that helped me see the light, and finally decide to put my foot down and tell my parents that I could no longer sit in the presence of such ignorance. They still give me shit for it, but eh.
Thank you Era.
I fail to see how any of this is alarming.
The only thing I edited from these quotes were the OP's personal opinions. The only misinformation is the evolution part and possibly the claim that the first building was a church. Everything I quoted was based on positivity and uplifting spirits. Please tell me how any of what was quoted is bad for society?
Huh. Didn't know that. Makes sense I guess considering the first Crusade was almost 1000 years ago.
However, there are events after the death of Martin Luther where blood was lost in the name of Christ. The Thirty Year War springs to mind as one example.
Which is especially funny when you consider that Ben Franklin, one of those Founding Fathers the guy was harping about, was a Quaker.
The government should promote progression Muslim mosques to combat conservative belief.
On topic:
I remember an old neogaf thread that posted an article of how young Muslims in Germany were having a hard time finding a mosque because the majority if them are so conservative. If I recall the full article correctly, it is apparently hard to find church/mosque leaders with actual educational credentials. (I tried to find the thread but I only found one about Minnesota, which was different). I presume the same occurs with Christian churches. The more highly educated pastors are probably not going to be found within conservative communities.
Generally it is a good idea to have them take Theology and Philosophy to reduce the conservative viewpoints and have intelligent pastors, imans and other religious leaders.
Had a ex-girlfriend like this once. No sex before marriage, always be careful of your actions, no intimate actions out in the open, etc. . She didn't like it herself, but it was her family... . In the end she left me for someone else, was difficult but now I wouldn't go back. She had a relatively normal belief I could have pushed further progressive but her parents are a different beast. =.=
It took Christianity a long time to reduce these aspects and its history is, as you mentioned, loaded with violence and atrocities. In comparison we can only hope that Islam and Hinduism overcome their own difficulties soon as well and religion generally takes a more backseat position in society.
It is alarming because the pastor talks about "a nation founded under God", "lead by God" and other extremely loaded statements that deny separation of religion and state as well as rewire American history regarding the natives. You can probably throw Manifest Destiny in this as well. Generally it seems like conveniently rewriting history to make things look more positive for their own religion.
Should be obvious that these statements are dangerous today and mostly antiquated as well.
I would imagine that is part of a tactic that preachers use. You combine the positive and uplifting nature, sanitized version of history with belief to get people onto your side, indoctrinate them and gain devote followers. In fiction you have extreme versions of this, Warhammer 40k is probably a good example if you look at the Space marine and Imperial Army background. In fiction it sounds really good and fascinating but in reality it is really scary. For a game you could probably take the newest Far Cry or The Last of Us Part 2 in the future.
I think it's more: Why would the people ask questions? The pastor's telling them that everything is okay so long as they follow his teachings; the people keep being reassured that there is no need for questions, just keep on the path.
If the Bible is imperfect, how do you determine which parts are true?
(Hint, it becomes a game of personal belief multiple choice)
The government shouldn't promote any religion of any kind. That is unconstitutional.
The part about a Christian nation is blatantly false and ignores separation of Church and State, a core tenet of American law and society. The part about the country struggling because it's not "a nation under God" is not only not based in reality, it's insulting to people of other faiths (or those without faith). The part about the pledge of allegiance is loaded and misleading (you also omitted the OP's correction that the pledge didn't even mention God until the 50's), and implying that being forced to recite a pledge is a good thing is indeed alarming in a so-called free country. The part about Trump and his administration is also creepy since it appeared to be supportive (at least tacitly). And yes, the part about evolution and prayer in school is more propaganda based on falsehoods, and it is anti-science and anti-reality.
That's a lot of misinformation crammed in one single service. This is not positive or uplifting rhetoric (and the empty platitude about walking your own path at the end doesn't do much to change that), but rather, anti-intellectual and exclusionary rhetoric. I know that church services can be positive and uplifting, but I am at a loss as to how this particular example fits this description, to be honest. Like the OP, I find it offensive.
Yeah, thankfully my fiancé is like any other girl and is cool and progressive. She rarely goes to church on her own and usually just read a passage from her bible once in a while when she feels the need. I’m agnostic, but it doesn’t bother me at all with her believing. Her parents though make me want to stab my eyes and ears out at times lol. As long as people don’t push it on me or call me the devil or something I’m cool with whatever they have faith in. If she was like her parents I would of been gone in an instant lol.
Exactly, treat them all equally or don’t bring them
up at all. Once you start supporting one over others then it becomes a theocracy.
The negativity on this forum regarding Christianity in general, and evangelical denominations in particular, certainly has a satanic ring to it.
The broad brush strokes aren't helpful.
The broad brush strokes aren't helpful.
The old neighborhood I used to live in had me surrounded by neighbors that all went to a mega church. They would always try to convince me to go and one neighbor convinced me to go to a special event. I went because I got to meet Peyton Manning, as he was a keynote speaker there. The church was basically a huge auditorium. I find members at these types of churches to be extremely pushy into making you go there. I'm good, I have my super liberal Lutheran church that I belong to. No guilt if you go or don't go.
Well I've already stated how I go about my business being a Christian on my posts. It's very personal.
Are you really calling people satanists for criticizing your religion?
Evangelical Christians worship:
1. Republican party
2. "Jesus"
3. Family
4. Football
in that order.
Accusing people who dislike Christianity of being Satanists is probably not going to help your argument for being treated with good faith.
No.
But given the binary options of advancing the purposes of Jesus or advancing the purposes of Satan, which has been more common in this thread?
The former seems clearly more common to me. Can you provide some counterexamples?
I remember at one church this pastor was showing slides of the Grand Canyon, mountains, rivers and such and said only God can create something so beautiful. It was so hard not to interrupt and keep quiet. Evidently not only is there no evolution but the earth we see at this very moment has always been this way.
It’s kind of annoying how some Christians in US only seemed to take away the rapture and persecution complex of the Bible and nothing else. It’s also concerning how other Christians are okay with these Christian groups existing and are unafraid to speak against them.
Oh well.
Oh well.
People like to give the Internet a hard time for being "a mistake", but if it wasn't for online communities sharing a lot of different viewpoints with me, I'd still be stuck in a bigoted quagmire like most of my family.
My issue is that there are too many that call themselves Christians and are not worthy of the name, not that they are “Christians”. I don’t think that makes me pushing a satanist agenda, for it is they who are supporting the work of evil.
What are the purposes of Satan and how did you determine it was true?
It's amazing how Satan really can be a Promethean character in Christian mythology while Jehova/Yahweh is an oppressive mob boss.
The Reformation was violent in some cases, and was basically anarchy disguised as religious disatisfaction. I recall reading a German account of some of the riots and destruction at those times and it said something a long the lines of not being something divine as he witnessed it. Martin Luther was also very unstable in his works (there is a reason most of them aren’t published much outside of a small careful selection of picks). They needed him as the figure head for the movement, no matter how nonsensical some of his thoughts were.
Not that I’m defending what they were discontent with but when your foundation is hypocrisy, nothing built on it will be of much value. We see the results today. You’re just tearing down one rotted building and putting another one up thats a different color.
So instead of taking issue with the harm your fellow Christians are inflicting, you whine about how people are talking about these Christians who are inflicting harm, to the point of accusing them of being in league with Satan.
I'd be upset if it wasn't for the fact that your comment is so absurd. And honestly quite sad that you're stuck in such a pit of ignorance.
I realize this will likely bounce off your "shield of faith, breastplate of righteousness" that you're convinced you're wearing, but know this: it's the type of mindset that you were taught and that you're demonstrating here that drove me away from Christianity for good.
I long ago came to the conclusion that organized religion is one of the worst human creations. It's nothing more than a form of control. Whether to control a population to act in a certain manner(while of course the those doing the controller are hypocritical assholes that we have seen time after or time) or for political purposes or what have you.
OP
OP
I did it for my family, I didn't want to rock the boat in the middle of our visit. It was a small church and I think my family might have been the only unusual visitors so even if I send an email they'll probably trace it back to us so it might still cause problems.
It's probably good that they have something to keep them in line. Some of shit I've seen Mike Huckabee said he would do if he wasn't religious is really concerning.
A lot of us are Christian and want to see the church improve and thus we are critical of it.
As a devout Christian myself, I believe what the OP experienced is largely what one may expect in an evangelical service not only in the south, but throughout the United States. I have increasingly found it problematic how many churches celebrate the United States as some kind of heaven on Earth. I believe the so-called ubiquity of Christianity in the United States has fostered a nation of heretics.
At it's core, Christianity must be subversive to Earthly institutions, especially patriotism. The pastor at my church said something that resonated with me two Sundays ago that I believe is relevant to this thread: We don't follow the Bible -- we teach and study the Bible; we follow Jesus. There is an absence of the Holy Spirit in many American churches which leads to a legalistic regurgitation of Christianity. This is the type of Christianity in which Jeff Sessions misappropriates Romans 13 to justify the separation of families at the border. It's the type of Christianity which justifies chattel slavery and the dehumanization of black slaves.
Still, I find that many posters in this forum will be offended by at least one thing said by a pastor in virtually any church in the United States. Ultimately, it is a relationship with Jesus that is most important; if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
At it's core, Christianity must be subversive to Earthly institutions, especially patriotism. The pastor at my church said something that resonated with me two Sundays ago that I believe is relevant to this thread: We don't follow the Bible -- we teach and study the Bible; we follow Jesus. There is an absence of the Holy Spirit in many American churches which leads to a legalistic regurgitation of Christianity. This is the type of Christianity in which Jeff Sessions misappropriates Romans 13 to justify the separation of families at the border. It's the type of Christianity which justifies chattel slavery and the dehumanization of black slaves.
Still, I find that many posters in this forum will be offended by at least one thing said by a pastor in virtually any church in the United States. Ultimately, it is a relationship with Jesus that is most important; if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
That sucks. When I go to my parents’ church which is very white and very conservative (the pastor is a Harley riding gun toter) they always preach inclusiveness and helping everyone regardless of who they are or where they’re from because the church’s biggest pillar is their charity work. My dad actually went to the DR to help build a church and shelter there and another one of their friends went to one of the Carolinas to run a home for people who suddenly lose their parents. They have shown videos telling great stories of people’s family members being killed in the Middle East and them still going back to help the victims or various conflicts there. They never mention politics specifically just to go vote since they live in a democracy and go through specific bible sections on a rotation to keep things on point. It’s really a shame when religion is taken in a terrible and political direction
we are criticizing the lies and misinformation that the church gives to people, what do you even expect?
Learn and be better instead of calling others Satanists and basically deflecting the problem, because that's pretty damn pathetic.
You should see that a lot of people in here are critical thinkers, maybe you should try that for yourself. Also this isn't against Christianity so don't use some persecution BS excuse, it's against claims in general with no evidence, like pretty much any theistic religion.
Also notice how there are Christians in here also being critical about this church.
Edit: Just noticed that you got perma-banned for being a piece of shit in another thread about sexual assault.
Good Bye, we don't want or need you in here.
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Considering millions upon millions upon millions more people have been murdered in the name of 'God' than satan....
Satan seems like a pretty swell guy in comparison.
Nope - assuming by the avatar and the name, he was a cultist christian nut from the old place
I'll add to the chorus of people who are followers of Jesus but think there are serious problems with hyper-conservative churches. But it isn't even "most" churches that are like that. Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian, most are far more thoughtful about how their faith and politics/ethics interact.
But massive crowds have a hard time with nuance. Far easier to trust in a pastor with a loud opinion than in a God who speaks in stillness and quiet.
But massive crowds have a hard time with nuance. Far easier to trust in a pastor with a loud opinion than in a God who speaks in stillness and quiet.
I do remember them from the old site, but they are gone for good now.