• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Gaming has a bunch of fun "what if?" questions, from the SNES PlayStation to every canned Guillermo del Toro project, but this Final Fantasy VII one is super fun. It's not new by any means, but it's a fun story to share regardless. I didn't even know about it until I read it in the Third Editions Kingdom Hearts book, and I have read a lot of the Final Fantasy wiki, let me tell you.

So, after development of Final Fantasy VI wrapped, the team immediately pivoted to work on the follow-up. Producer Sakaguchi wanted it to focus on the theme of "life", which carried through till the end, but the initial plan was for it to come out on the SNES and be set in New York City. While the concept image below was presumably made before they even got that far, it shows what it could have looked like, in terms of graphical polish. This was Squaresoft after years of working with the hardware, after all.

latest



(Un)fortunately in late 1994, presumably very shortly after FFVII's production even started, most of the team had to break from the project to focus their efforts entirely on a little game called Chrono Trigger. That included Yoshinori Kitase, who was eventually credited as a CT Director, and Tetsuya Nomura, who worked as a Field Graphic Designer mere months before he shot to fame.

As a result, FFVII development didn't really resume until late 1995, with the game now being set for release on the next generation of consoles with a focus on 3D graphics. In time, elements like the New York City setting were scrapped, though the core theme of life and the central characters of Cloud and an eco-terrorist organization remained.

A few years later, New York was finally used as the setting for Parasite Eve, and one of the early Tetsuya Nomura character designs, a sorceress witch, was eventually repurposed for Final Fantasy VIII's Edea.

And that isn't even going into how Xenogears was basically another Final Fantasy VII concept repurposed. Coincidentally that game was originally codenamed Chrono Trigger 2, though that connection didn't last long at all by the sound of things.

So yeah, it's fun to imagine what could have been. How would a New York City-based Final Fantasy look on the SNES? How was a witch going to factor into things? After 9/11, would a game about terrorists running about New York City have been pulled from store shelves entirely? Would it have been the ground-breaking JRPG that'd usher in a wave of Japanese games into western markets, like the real FFVII? Or would fate have led to the Final Fantasy VII we all know and love, regardless?

As we all wait on the Final Fantasy VII Remake, it's fun to think back on how it probably wouldn't even exist if not for Chrono Trigger's ambition.
 
Last edited:

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,502
This was interesting to learn however I will gladly take Chrono Trigger any day over FFVII (despite the fact that I really like it too). The delay was actually worth it for both of the games.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
a hunch but i doubt they ever planned on basing it in actual NYC. i think that was just a broad outline for FF7's modern setting (Midgar, corporations, cars, ect was a radical departure at the time)

really am interested in how far along the "snes version" really was though or if they ever seriously planned on releasing it. i remember when they unveiled the actual FF7 and everybody got over the omg betrayalaton everybody was shocked by how far along the game looked. i know the game had a remarkably quick turnaround for its time but i don't see how they'd have had any time to dick around with an snes version beyond very broad prototyping
 
OP
OP
Rotobit

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
a hunch but i doubt they ever planned on basing it in actual NYC. i think that was just a broad outline for FF7's modern setting (Midgar, corporations, cars, ect was a radical departure at the time)

really am interested in how far along the "snes version" really was though or if they ever seriously planned on releasing it. i remember when they unveiled the actual FF7 and everybody got over the omg betrayalaton everybody was shocked by how far along the game looked. i know the game had a remarkably quick turnaround for its time but i don't see how they'd have had any time to dick around with an snes version beyond very broad prototyping

Yeah the stuff with the witches and the existence of "energy reactors" makes me think it wasn't going to be a 1:1 NYC. I also forgot to mention that Sakaguchi specifies 1999 as the setting too, but IIRC even FFVII's universe has a "1999" year date.

As for how far along it got, I can't imagine very. The next year they had that FFVI Silicon Graphics 3D demo and I assume they went all-in on 3D around then. I'd love it if there are some very early Cloud sprites somewhere though.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
A juicy rumor about FFVII on SNES by Gamefan vol. 3 '95.

FKpWuVA.png


EDIT:
"64-Meg" = 8MB
 

discotrigger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
Now I'm seriously wondering how good that could have looked with DKC-style graphics. I imagine the chibi-style characters would lend themselves well to that. It'd be especially interesting to see how they would've handled battles- perhaps they'd go for something like Super Mario RPG? That's the kind of demake I could really get behind.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
2,418
As someone who isn't much fond of the FFVII we did get, I'd love to live in the reality in which we got this version instead. Late SNES games still look great to this day, I wouldn't mind sacrificing the bells and whistles of FFVII's presentation (FMVs, CD-quality audio) for a faster, more aesthetically-pleasing version of the game.
 

Vault

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
Smartest thing they ever did. FF wouldn't be the global brand it is if FF7 was on the SNES.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,690
Philadelphia, PA
Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger were originally the same game, headed by Hiromichi Tanaka and codenamed Maru Island, which was scrapped when Nintendo's PlayStation project fell through.

This is also the reason why Hiromichi Tanaka led the development for Chrono Cross later on, when Sony resurrected the PlayStation project. Some stuff like Gaia's Navel are in both Secret of Mana and Chrono Cross for example.

https://web.archive.org/web/20121215045204/http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

Despite that, the CD-ROM adapter was never completed. Once everyone learned that the CD-ROM adapter was never going to see a release, they decided to abandon everything that had been planned for development since the very start, including Toriyama-sensei's contributions, and decided to revise the project in order to make it release into a ROM cassette. We said that we would wait for the CD-ROM to make a collaboration project with Toriyama-sensei, but when it was revised, it actually became an entirely different project with an entirely different direction. That was what later on was completed into the game we know as Chrono Trigger.

- Hiromichi Tanaka

I guess it's a small blessing the SNES CD didn't happen because instead of getting the massive scope that Secret of Mana was going to be, instead we got two awesome games instead.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
Have my doubts the final game would end up looking quite that good fidelity-wise. There's a bunch of telltale signs like barely any use of repeated tiles on the buildings. For a full size RPG to look that good you would need a gargantuan sized ROM even by the standards of the mid 90's.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,690
Philadelphia, PA
Have my doubts the final game would end up looking quite that good fidelity-wise. There's a bunch of telltale signs like barely any use of repeated tiles on the buildings. For a full size RPG to look that good you would need a gargantuan sized ROM even by the standards of the mid 90's.

Or possibly a CD-Rom device which has tons (at the time) of available storage?
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
A juicy rumor about FFVII on SNES by Gamefan vol. 3 '95.

FKpWuVA.png


EDIT:
"64-Meg" = 8MB
Now I'm seriously wondering how good that could have looked with DKC-style graphics. I imagine the chibi-style characters would lend themselves well to that. It'd be especially interesting to see how they would've handled battles- perhaps they'd go for something like Super Mario RPG? That's the kind of demake I could really get behind.

I think FFVI already uses some cgi elements in it anyway, but regarding dkc tech, there was a game kinda using it i guess, late in snes life, Treasure Hunter G

411159_orig.png


But i mean, 2d games with cgi graphics in them didn't really age that well in the end i guess..
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
A fuck ton has been written about the creation of Final Fantasy VII, and since it's the greatest game ever made, it's always interesting to read.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
CT is better then the FVII we *did* get, so it's hard to be upset by this.

fun to wonder what a snes FVII would have ultimately been like though
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,748
Montreal
I think FFVI already uses some cgi elements in it anyway, but regarding dkc tech, there was a game kinda using it i guess, late in snes life, Treasure Hunter G

411159_orig.png


But i mean, 2d games with cgi graphics in them didn't really age that well in the end i guess..
Isn't Golden Sun prerendered? That game looks really good.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
so, in a kinda weird way, FFVII is a distant ancestor to Xenoblade.

Going back even further, you can say that FF6 and Chrono Trigger/Secret of Mana are the distant ancestors of Xenoblade.

The DNA is definitely there, even in the final product!

Well Xenogears was Takahashis idea of what FF7 should be. He was also on the FF6 and CT teams as well.

Yeah, Xenogears marked the point where Takahashi (and the team that would go on to form Monolith Soft) began their focus on environments and archtecture/level design over character design & story. It is the most obvious inflection point for what would go on to become Monolith Soft's founding philosophy.

The seeds were planted earlier of course, but Xenogears is where they started to spout.
 
Last edited:

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
Now I'm seriously wondering how good that could have looked with DKC-style graphics. I imagine the chibi-style characters would lend themselves well to that. It'd be especially interesting to see how they would've handled battles- perhaps they'd go for something like Super Mario RPG? That's the kind of demake I could really get behind.
Maybe.

A long time ago I created this image to show off Squaresoft's games graphical evolution during the SNES era (in between late NES game and early PS1 game):
DY7MqBs.png
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
Now I'm seriously wondering how good that could have looked with DKC-style graphics. I imagine the chibi-style characters would lend themselves well to that. It'd be especially interesting to see how they would've handled battles- perhaps they'd go for something like Super Mario RPG? That's the kind of demake I could really get behind.

Well FF6 was the first time that Squaresoft made use of SGI workstations, where some of its visuals were based on pre-rendered models (most notably the Phantom Train); so it would have likely have followed in a similar vein (the concept picture probably wouldn't be far off from what they would've done).

I doubt that they would've attempted full 3D pre-rendered visuals without the FMV playback capabilities of the PS1. It really was the catalyst for the use of CGI pre-rendered graphics (and the whole "movie" theme of the game; like how FF6 was based on the Opera concept, FF7 was based on the Movie concept).
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,331
So you could also see it as Chrono trigger may have never existed if they continued work on the snes ff7, I'm glad that didn't happen because chrono trigger is my fave rpg ever
 

Gaiseric

Member
Aug 4, 2019
188
I dream of a day when SquareEnix is making a presentation and the black wind begins to howl and you faintly hear the beginning cues of Magus's theme.

Chrono Trigger: Remake (on par with or greater than what we're seeing with Final Fantasy 7).

That would be a dream. I wonder if it'll ever be a reality.
 
OP
OP
Rotobit

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I dream of a day when SquareEnix is making a presentation and the black wind begins to howl and you faintly hear the beginning cues of Magus's theme.

Chrono Trigger: Remake (on par with or greater than what we're seeing with Final Fantasy 7).

That would be a dream. I wonder if it'll ever be a reality.

UE4 seems to have smoothed out Square Enix's production pipeline, what with it powering FFVII Remake, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Dragon Quest XI. Hopefully a CT remake isn't as outlandish as it used to be.

In an ideal world they'd make a Chrono Trigger remake resemble DQXI aesthetically, since Toriyama and all, but I could see them going the slightly cheaper Trials of Mana remake route. Though that game still looks miles ahead of what used to pass for a Square Enix remake (lookin' at you Secret of Mana).
 

TubaZef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,565
Brazil
I always thought FFVII started as a N64 project because of this demo:



I guess it was considered at one point, a lot happened with this game. I'm glad we got CT and FFVII instead anyway, 2 great games.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
A few years later, New York was finally used as the setting for Parasite Eve, and one of the early Tetsuya Nomura character designs, a sorceress witch, was eventually repurposed for Final Fantasy VIII's Edea.

And that isn't even going into how Xenogears was basically another Final Fantasy VII concept repurposed. Coincidentally that game was originally codenamed Chrono Trigger 2, though that connection didn't last long at all by the sound of things.

Lavos, Jenova, Deus, and Mitochondrial Eve are basically all the same concept.

0PVC5Esl.png

tpGubGHl.png

PBYX2Gql.png


TZubjM7h.png


JkNCRM7h.png
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,341
America
on the one hand, the gfx would have help up way better than the polygonal ugliness of ps1.

on the other hand, we wouldn't have gotten that epic soundtrack and the sephiroth quire song for the final battle.

it's a hard choice!
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
We Westerners also wouldn't have gotten it at all, just like we didn't get Seiken Densetsu 3, Bahamut Lagoon, Treasure of the Rudras, Treasure Hunter G, etc.

Then we would have gotten FFVIII on the next console, which would be released in the West as "FFIV", the sequel to the SNES game "FFIII" lol
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,331
UE4 seems to have smoothed out Square Enix's production pipeline, what with it powering FFVII Remake, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Dragon Quest XI. Hopefully a CT remake isn't as outlandish as it used to be.

In an ideal world they'd make a Chrono Trigger remake resemble DQXI aesthetically, since Toriyama and all, but I could see them going the slightly cheaper Trials of Mana remake route. Though that game still looks miles ahead of what used to pass for a Square Enix remake (lookin' at you Secret of Mana).
If they ever remade Chrono trigger I rather it be updated pixel art in HD
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,153
16/32 bit era Square was something else, right?


Really interesting, topic, OP! Parasite Eve and Final Fantasy 7 having NY as inspiration really makes sense. The atmosphere in the original PE is unmatched.
 
OP
OP
Rotobit

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Something worse than "losing the source code" happened to Square Enix -- losing their pixel artists.

They're still there doing good work but it's basically just the Octopath, Brave Exvius and Record Keeper teams.

5HhGAaW.gif

DrearyZigzagFirefly-size_restricted.gif


Wish they'd get the chance to make something big again, or at least give them the opportunity replace the horrendous Steam "remakes" of FFV and VI.
 

Druffmaul

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 24, 2018
2,228
Well FF6 was the first time that Squaresoft made use of SGI workstations, where some of its visuals were based on pre-rendered models (most notably the Phantom Train); so it would have likely have followed in a similar vein (the concept picture probably wouldn't be far off from what they would've done).

I doubt that they would've attempted full 3D pre-rendered visuals without the FMV playback capabilities of the PS1. It really was the catalyst for the use of CGI pre-rendered graphics (and the whole "movie" theme of the game; like how FF6 was based on the Opera concept, FF7 was based on the Movie concept).

I've never heard anything about any sort of pre-rendered graphics in FFVI. Its graphical claim to fame was that they scanned and digitized hand-drawn artwork for certain assets, e.g. most if not all of the enemies, character profiles, etc. I'm looking at the original Phantom Train graphics right now, and I'd be pretty shocked to find out CG had anything to do with it. It's fairly common knowledge that Square secured their first SGI workstations around FFVI's time, but I never heard they had them in time to use them on FFVI, which released in April 1994 in Japan.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
They're still there doing good work but it's basically just the Octopath, Brave Exvius and Record Keeper teams.

5HhGAaW.gif

DrearyZigzagFirefly-size_restricted.gif


Wish they'd get the chance to make something big again, or at least give them the opportunity replace the horrendous Steam "remakes" of FFV and VI.

I thought these games were developed by Acquire, Alim, and DeNa, respectively.