If Sony or Microsoft had launched a console/handheld hybrid system prior to the Switch, would it have been successful?

Border · Feb 10, 2020

Assume that the Xbox One and PS4 still existed as they currently do, but that Sony and/or MS introduced second platforms that could be easily and readily hooked up to a TV, but also used as portable gaming solution. Their console wouldn't run PS4/X1 games, but would be at least as well-supported with 1st and 3rd party software as the Switch was. You could cross-buy games and cross-save between the X1/PS4 and the hybrids where applicable, but obviously not every X1/PS4 game would have a handheld version just due to hardware constraints. Would a Sony or MS hybrid system have caught on in remotely the same way as the Switch? For the sake of argument, let's say it would have been roughly $300 with horsepower roughly equivalent to or mildly better than the Switch.

For as much as people like to credit the innovative Switch hardware, I get the sense that most of its success is just due to the magic of Nintendo's 1st party software and the fanbases of its many various IPs. The PSP (and I think the Vita too) had a TV-out option, so it was almost the same as the Switch, but people just kind of ignored them.

EDIT: If not, is there anything in your mind that could make a hybrid system from one of the other manufacturers successful (realistically speaking)?

Jaded Alyx · Feb 10, 2020

Border said:
Their console wouldn't run PS4/X1 games, but would be at least as well-supported with 1st and 3rd party software as the Switch was.

History has shown us that just wouldn't be possible.

abady-25 · Feb 10, 2020

xaosslug · Feb 10, 2020

Switch is successful because it's a "handheld" and that + Nintendo games is what peeps want from Nintendo.

Border · Feb 10, 2020

Jaded Alyx said:
History has shown us that just wouldn't be possible.

I'm imagining a Switch-like scenario in which select games just get down-ported to the hybrid systems, in the way Doom and Witcher 3 got ported to Switch. It wouldn't be like PSP/Vita where developers have to make completely separate versions of every franchise/IP for the handheld (though they could make original games exclusively for the hybrid, if they wanted to)

Wafflinson · Feb 10, 2020

Probably not.

I think making games for a handheld is different and is more than just a downport. Nintendo is just better at it.

lupinko · Feb 10, 2020

TheSentry42 · Feb 10, 2020

Only if they’re backed it with their best games and committed to to it like Nintendo. Not 2nd rate games, but great games.
The. Yes, but I don’t know if they would unless it was their only console.

WolfeTone · Feb 10, 2020

Border said:
Assume that the Xbox One and PS4 still existed as they currently do, but that Sony and/or MS introduced second platforms that could be easily and readily hooked up to a TV, but also used as portable gaming solution. Their console wouldn't run PS4/X1 games, but would be at least as well-supported with 1st and 3rd party software as the Switch was. You could cross-buy games and cross-save between the X1/PS4 and the hybrids where applicable, but obviously not every X1/PS4 game would have a handheld version just due to hardware constraints. Would a Sony or MS hybrid system have caught on in remotely the same way as the Switch? For the sake of argument, let's say it would have been roughly $300 with horsepower roughly equivalent to or mildly better than the Switch.

For as much as people like to credit the innovative Switch hardware, I get the sense that most of its success is just due to the magic of Nintendo's 1st party software and the fanbases of its many various IPs. The PSP (and I think the Vita too) had a TV-out option, so it was almost the same as the Switch, but people just kind of ignored them.

EDIT: If not, is there anything in your mind that could make a hybrid system from one of the other manufacturers successful (realistically speaking)?

If the bolded were true, why wasn't the Wii U a success?

Border · Feb 10, 2020

TheSentry42 said:
Only if they’re backed it with their best games and committed to to it like Nintendo. Not 2nd rate games, but great games.
The. Yes, but I don’t know if they would unless it was their only console.

Yeah, I think the major hurdle to overcome would just be consumers' sense that they were buying a second-banana product. It would be difficult to demonstrate to gamers that they weren't going to be getting a downgraded experience.
I don't think the concept of a hybrid alone is all that enticing.....it has to come with the assurance that you will be getting a ton of marquee big-name titles.

Deleted member 49535 · Feb 10, 2020

If the PS4 was a hybrid, yes. But supporting two platforms these days is just impossible, both Sony and Nintendo failed at it.

Gay Bowser · Feb 10, 2020

Not if it was a separate platform in addition to their "real" console.

I kind of can't shake the feeling that the PlayStation 5 should really be a "PlayStation Go," though.

Warukyure · Feb 10, 2020

No, regardless of how the PS4 and X1 did or the ongoing success of the NSW, every company has their strengths.

Nintendo's could be seen as a natural evolution from the DS > 3DS > NSW. In which portability and uniqueness is theirs.

Sony's strength, arguably was pushing graphics. And MS is about network.

For MS, prior to the Switch, there was a lack of "connectivity" in devices. Today, we're moving towards 5G, and with the push for game pass and xCloud, MS could do something now, not 3-4 years prior. If anyone could challenge Nintendo in the portability scene, it might seem strange but I think MS could champion it.

Border · Feb 10, 2020

jaggies said:
Not if it was a separate platform in addition to their "real" console.

I kind of can't shake the feeling that the PlayStation 5 should really be a "PlayStation Go," though.

I get the sense that the next console generation is largely going to be features-driven. 4K, solid-state hard drives for uber-fast loadtimes, and realtime raytracing. In that sense, it seems like the PS5 actually could theoretically have a hybrid counterpart that just drops those features but runs all the same games at 720P or 1080P. I don't think that is at all likely to happen, but if some mastermind was planning it from the get-go it might be possible.

NinjaScooter · Feb 10, 2020

jaggies said:
Not if it was a separate platform in addition to their "real" console.

I kind of can't shake the feeling that the PlayStation 5 should really be a "PlayStation Go," though.

The PS4 is one of the best selling consoles of all time. Why should they abandon that concept and market?

GemmolSwitchPS4 · Feb 10, 2020

Wafflinson said:
Probably not.

I think making games for a handheld is different and is more than just a downport. Nintendo is just better at it.

that would be the case with the 3ds and older handheld but switch plays majority console games not just some

Yoshimitsu126 · Feb 10, 2020

Warukyure said:
No, regardless of how the PS4 and X1 did or the ongoing success of the NSW, every company has their strengths.

Nintendo's could be seen as a natural evolution from the DS > 3DS > NSW. In which portability and uniqueness is theirs.

Sony's strength, arguably was pushing graphics. And MS is about network.

For MS, prior to the Switch, there was a lack of "connectivity" in devices. Today, we're moving towards 5G, and with the push for game pass and xCloud, MS could do something now, not 3-4 years prior. If anyone could challenge Nintendo in the portability scene, it might seem strange but I think MS could champion it.

I could see a Series X portable that competes with Switch with better online. But then Nintendo may be hesitant in allowing game pass to be run on Switch which seems to be a bigger picture for MS.

Novocaine · Feb 10, 2020

WolfeTone said:
If the bolded were true, why wasn't the Wii U a success?

Possibly because the 3DS was good enough. The Wii U did shit but the 3DS smashed it.

H-I-M · Feb 10, 2020

Not really.

Nintendo quit the graphics race when they launched the Wii and haven't caught up ever since.
That allowed them to be able to release a hybrid like the Switch that's still more powerful than any of their previous consoles.

Warukyure · Feb 10, 2020

Yoshimitsu126 said:
I could see a Series X portable that competes with Switch with better online. But then Nintendo may be hesitant in allowing game pass to be run on Switch which seems to be a bigger picture for MS.

But that's the beauty of what MS' endgame plan is. There's no need for a series x portable, if xCloud is their future then device power is meaningless. Everyone will fight a senseless war, and charge for new devices whereas MS could just put out a screen with buttons. Could you imagine not having to upgrade to say a switch pro or a switch 2 just because you need more power to play a game?

This only works now though, it would've never worked prior to the switch, and that is totally not reactionary to the switch. It was just the limitation of the technology at the time.

Yoshimitsu126 · Feb 10, 2020

Warukyure said:
But that's the beauty of what MS' endgame plan is. There's no need for a series x portable, if xCloud is their future then device power is meaningless. Everyone will fight a senseless war, and charge for new devices whereas MS could just put out a screen with buttons. Could you imagine not having to upgrade to say a switch pro or a switch 2 just because you need more power to play a game?

This only works now though, it would've never worked prior to the switch, and that is totally not reactionary to the switch. It was just the limitation of the technology at the time.

I see it but I think Microsoft has to be careful. They can either compete with the Switch with their own portable or just port xCloud to other consoles. I don't think their competitors will let them do both.

Warukyure · Feb 10, 2020

Yoshimitsu126 said:
I see it but I think Microsoft has to be careful. They can either compete with the Switch with their own portable or just port xCloud to other consoles. I don't think their competitors will let them do both.

I will give you that though, I don't think Nintendo would allow it because it would a) undermine their platform and b) take away time share from their own games and c) reduced revenue because they would only get a royalty and not full profits. Heck, I can't even see Nintendo allowing Nvidia now despite their hardware partnership.

Sampson · Feb 10, 2020

WolfeTone said:
If the bolded were true, why wasn't the Wii U a success?

Because the Wii U actually had some of Nintendo's worst output, particularly early on in the console's life cycle, which killed momentum.

In hindsight, everyone says the Wii U had great software. In reality, it had about 10 great games, most of which came in year 2/3 long after the ship had sailed. The first year of the Wii U is absolutely abysmal.

Compare that to the Switch which had 2 of Nintendo's greatest games ever release within a year, plus the gems of Wii U recycled to an audience that mostly never played them. The Switch's library is so much better than the Wii U's, it isn't even close.

z0m3le · Feb 10, 2020

It would have to be their only gaming device with as much support as they have ever put into any of their previous platforms. That is exactly why the Nintendo Switch is a success, the big problem comes from Nintendo doing it too, because the Switch even in Spring 2017 was one of the most powerful portable devices on the market, and has Pokemon... It could be really hard for Sony or Microsoft to challenge Nintendo in the handheld space because of all the valuable IP Nintendo holds.

PS4 and Switch occupy the same level of success really, so there is nothing to really gain from Sony to having done that, as giving up their home console business would be a drastic step for Sony, and just a bad move.

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Feb 10, 2020

If Microsoft put Halo on it, I think it would be successful at least for a time.

nekkid · Feb 10, 2020

A portable 360 with access to the complete existing digital library (and likely spurring more development for the platform) would have been fantastic.

Alandring · Feb 10, 2020

I think a PlayStation 5 Portable or a Xbox Series Portable, which run all PlayStation 5/Xbox Series games at 720/1080p could sell well, but I'm not sure Sony and Microsoft are interested.

Warukyure said:
But that's the beauty of what MS' endgame plan is. There's no need for a series x portable, if xCloud is their future then device power is meaningless. Everyone will fight a senseless war, and charge for new devices whereas MS could just put out a screen with buttons. Could you imagine not having to upgrade to say a switch pro or a switch 2 just because you need more power to play a game?

I think cloud gaming couldn't be more inappropriate for handheld gaming. Cloud gaming need a great connection, which you can't have (or not always) outside of your house. I doubt cloud gaming will ever be possible in a plane or abroad.

toy_brain · Feb 10, 2020

Yes.

The Switch isn't really that innovative if you think more broadly. It's the same concept as the laptop and dock setup you see in offices across the world.
People love the crap outta that, and it's been around for ages (I remember deploying them back in 1999 for christ's sake).
So yea, a dockable PSP or Vita. Yup, people would have swarmed to it. In fact, I'm still amazed it took the industry this long to come up with one.

Warukyure · Feb 10, 2020

Alandring said:
I think a PlayStation 5 Portable or a Xbox Series Portable, which run all PlayStation 5/Xbox Series games at 720/1080p could sell well, but I'm not sure Sony and Microsoft are interested.

I think cloud gaming couldn't be more inappropriate for handheld gaming. Cloud gaming need a great connection, which you can't have (or not always) outside of your house. I doubt cloud gaming will ever be possible in a plane or abroad.

I see it more as a question waiting for a solution.

When launched, the vita was one of those most advanced portable gaming devices, it had Bluetooth, wifi and 3G on some models. And that was 6 years before the switch. The switch just has more horsepower than the vita. I think it’s only going to be a matter of time before we come across when data and connectivity aren’t barriers to true mobile gaming. If people are already doing things like streaming ps4 games to vita through either on-board 3G or mobile tethering, or even stadia or GeForce now on cellphones, an xCloud dedicated gaming device from MS doesn’t seem that outlandish.

though in reference to the original proposition from OP, this couldn’t have happening pre-Switch.

cw_sasuke · Feb 10, 2020

No one knows - thats like asking if a traditional Nintendo console with no BS could sell like the PS4 if they wouldnt release a handheld alongside it was competing with.

If a company is willing to put all their resources into a device alot of things can happen.

Gay Bowser · Feb 10, 2020

NinjaScooter said:
The PS4 is one of the best selling consoles of all time. Why should they abandon that concept and market?

Would it be abandoning that concept and market? I don't really think so. You could still plug it into your TV to play games with high quality graphics. Heck, I imagine they'd make a non-portable variant, for people who just wanted to play games on their TV. It would even have some of the PS5's biggest upgrades, like moving to flash-based storage.

What it wouldn't have is PS5-caliber graphics. But honestly, I think that's fine. If there was ever a time to invest the "generation upgrade" in moving to an ARM SoC in a low-watt/portable form factor instead of amping up graphics performance, I think this coming generation is it. I think a lot of people are still satisfied with the fidelity of PS4 graphics, and it definitely still seems to be pushing studios to their limits to deliver that level of detail.

ARM SoCs are advancing at a pace that puts X86 CPUs to shame. I can see an era not too far in the future where the PlayStation's X86 architecture is a liability, not an asset. And since switching architectures would likely break backwards compatibility, I think it would make sense to make the switch sooner rather than later. But that's just me.

Zool · Feb 10, 2020

No, look at the PSP which was dockable and could use dualshock controllers.

Andri · Feb 10, 2020

Border said:
I'm imagining a Switch-like scenario in which select games just get down-ported to the hybrid systems, in the way Doom and Witcher 3 got ported to Switch. It wouldn't be like PSP/Vita where developers have to make completely separate versions of every franchise/IP for the handheld (though they could make original games exclusively for the hybrid, if they wanted to)

Thing is, the Doom and Witchers are not what made Switch a success.
Its Nintendos vast array of First Party software that is one immensely popular and second well suited for handheld play(since many of their franchises have lived on handhelds for a long time).

Think about a Switch without Nintendo games, what you get is a Vita.
Nice niche system, but not a success.

They would have to develop First Party IP that fits Handheld play, they just dont have it atm, and their studios clearly are too busy to put out the next AAA 4K Graphics showcase to even consider doing that.

score01 · Feb 10, 2020

No. They wouldn’t have the resources to give enough of a focus to the handheld as well as their main consoles (unless the system was powerful enough to play downscaled versions of the main console titles?).

The switch is an ideal scenario for Nintendo, they no longer have two separate platforms to support (handheld and home console).

MartinB105 · Feb 10, 2020

The Vita had a much better library as far as I'm concerned than the Switch, and I don't think having a TV output would've saved it.

So no.

NoUse4AName · Feb 10, 2020

Switch is successful because it has Nintendo Games.

Reinhardt Schneider · Feb 10, 2020

WolfeTone said:
If the bolded were true, why wasn't the Wii U a success?

Because it had to compete with the 3DS and the release rhythm was way slower

Zool said:
No, look at the PSP which was dockable and could use dualshock controllers.

I wish! That's only the PSP go

Necron · Feb 10, 2020

Ironically enough, the PSP Go had a docking station which I only learnt about through YouTube. Sony's handhelds are amazing in both design and hardware but somehow manage to fumble it up for various other reasons - marketing being a big one.

In a perfect world, we'd have a PSP2/Vita2 that could run downscaled PS4 games you already own, docking features, access to PS Now etc.

Jon God · Feb 10, 2020

If it had the same feature set and was as easy to develop for? Probably.

a11244 · Feb 10, 2020

*looking at Vita* Yep it's about support

Iztok Mravlja · Feb 10, 2020

They probably wouldn't have had Zelda & Mario on it, so obviously not.

mazi · Feb 10, 2020

the hybrid concept is only responsible for part of the success. they would need the software.

fourfourfun · Feb 10, 2020

No. Sony & Microsoft have set out their stall as being fully committed to the power race. Going hybrid would mean power concessions. They would have to pivot to hybrid gradually, but with both MS & Sony's catalogue and success being so heavily reliant on third party titles and parity, I can never see that happening.

Kill3r7 · Feb 10, 2020

Doubt it. If I cannot play PS4/X1 titles on the go then desirability for such a device is pretty low. Price and form factor would be a huge hurdle.

Li bur · Feb 10, 2020

Yes, Nintendo 1st Party certainly matters in Switch success, however Switch was also executed so perfectly in terms of marketing, games release windows, device specs and so on. And personally, I couldn't find a better JRPG machine.

MickZan · Feb 10, 2020

Doubtfull. The only reason to buy that is if i can play all my PS4 games on the go, which i do not see happening.

JamFlan · Feb 10, 2020

Border said:
I'm imagining a Switch-like scenario in which select games just get down-ported to the hybrid systems, in the way Doom and Witcher 3 got ported to Switch. It wouldn't be like PSP/Vita where developers have to make completely separate versions of every franchise/IP for the handheld (though they could make original games exclusively for the hybrid, if they wanted to)

Down-porting games that are so big isn't a small task. 3rd parties would be even more slow to support such a device than they would the Switch. First party support would be worse than Switch. There's no way it would be successful.

Celine · Feb 10, 2020

People need to understand that Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft are fundamentally different kind of console manufacturers.

Sony/Microsoft are third-party driven console makers whose priority is to appease to the third-party publishers' needs which mean for example to follow the expected power curve and to keep wildly different and unproven concepts away from the core of their systems (because third-parties invest into your ecosystem based on historical data and if a concept which represent a pillar of your console is unproven that means they will be wary to invest big money into your ecosystem, at least in the beginning).
Sony/Microsoft success is based on following a standardization path.

Nintendo is a first-party driven console maker meaning that what generate the initial successful momentum (that bring more success as time moves on) is a special combination between first-party software and hardware unique features.
The unique features, if good, serve to broke beyond the first-party usual fanbase whereas first-party software, which need to be strong, serve the purpose to justify the unique approach.
The two are mutually beneficial.
Nintendo success is based on following appealing non-standard path(s).

Elfotografoalocado · Feb 10, 2020

How could Sony or Microsoft have released a hybrid system, prior to the Switch, equally or more powerful, at the same price?

Ricky_R · Feb 10, 2020

jaggies said:
I kind of can't shake the feeling that the PlayStation 5 should really be a "PlayStation Go," though.

Imagine putting that out there in one of their PS5 planning meetings.

If Sony or Microsoft had launched a console/handheld hybrid system prior to the Switch, would it have been successful?

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