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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
It's not available in most countries.
Sony refuse to put new releases on PSNow. This is a big factor. PSNow has a healthy userbase, but Sony want to sell consoles so they're not going to allow you to play hot new Sony published titles without buying a PS4.
Many people would rather wait for RPCS3 or Xenia to mature than play Red Dead Redemption with the chugging framerate and terrible image quality of the PS3 version via PSNow.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,372
Streaming will never be the future unless it becomes a valid option for emerging markets. If people cannot experience it in countries like Russia or Brazil, it shouldn't be an option at all.

I don't know about Brazil, but from what I'm reading Russia is probably more suited for game streaming than the US. Asia in general tends to have noticeably cheaper & higher quality Internet plans than the US, but Russia in particular has ridiculously cheap Internet access even by Asian standards.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Because it's not the future yet. The base is there but it has a long way to go before you're going to see bandwidth, quality, and latency reach a point where it's indistinguishable from playing locally.

We are not there yet and probably won't be there for quite some time, especially in any sort of fast-paced game.
 

Hassel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
My backlog is already to big for that shit.
 

Deguello

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
269
After all the crap Microsoft got for always-online DRM in 2013 you'd think some of the "futurists" would recognize a second bite at that apple.

There are things that a move to streaming would kill like fighting tournaments, and speedruns, and unapproved let's players/streamers. The potential for abuse is high, and the benefits to the player are limited. It totally benefits the companies who no longer have to ship products or even digitally distribute games though. The naivete that they will pass the savings onto the customer proved false last generation when digital titles still cost the same price at launch.

One area where I'm curious about the ramifications is, what will the retail stores think about such a move? Imagine you're Gamestop (I know, how about Walmart or Amazon instead?) and you hear that both PS5 and Xbox T.W.O. XX will both be streaming focused with a year subscription free in the box. Consoles typically have pretty small margins as it is, which you would make up with game sales (particularly used game sales in Gamestop's case). These two new consoles would be an enormous threat to that revenue. So what would your options be? Refuse to carry the product (which Walmart might do?) Pump up the price well beyond the MSRP in order to recoup the losses you will incur by simply carrying your own destruction in a disc-less console?

Will Microsoft and Sony force these retail outlets to carry their own destruction? One counterexample is the smartphone and their app stores, as Walmart and Amazon carry those with no issue. But the iPhone didn't steal away any revenue from Walmart (They never sold boxed "phone apps"). Streaming consoles absolutely will steal those huge walls of games. Would it be worth stocking those thin-margin consoles for customers you will likely never see again? (at least in the electronics section?) It's something for the "futurists" at MS and Sony to consider before they're left trying to figure out how to digitally distribute their consoles.
 
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Remark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,558
Honestly for me because PS Now runs like shit for me.

GeForce NOW works perfectly for me but PS NOW has a bunch of input lag even with my 100Mbps connection.
 

9-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,881
I don't know about Brazil, but from what I'm reading Russia is probably more suited for game streaming than the US. Asia in general tends to have noticeably cheaper & higher quality Internet plans than the US, but Russia in particular has ridiculously cheap Internet access even by Asian standards.

While this might be true, it's pretty unlikely for streaming platforms to launch in Russian market before developed markets and even some of the European markets the PSNow service isn't available yet. There are a lot more factors than just internet affects the availability.
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
Its not the future yet.
09-roll-safe.w400.h400.jpg

We're getting very close though.
 

Machine Law

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,106
Streaming on PS Now is really expensive and the library is not there for me. I may subscribe once the service is more mature.
 

xabbott

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Florida
It's mostly 720p versions of last gen games, cost too much monthly. Also Sony's cloud save system is ass so even if I could continue my PS4 session using it on a supported game I can't always count on my save being there. It seem to require a Sony controller the last time I tried PC client too.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,960
There are things that a move to streaming would kill like fighting tournaments, and speedruns, and unapproved let's players/streamers. The potential for abuse is high, and the benefits to the player are limited.
You know, the rest of your post is a realistic look at how streaming may impact the industry moving forward, but I wouldn't have opened with this. It's not far off from all of the motion control scaremongering back in 200X, back when people were willing to convince themselves for a moment that motion control might literally consume all of traditional gaming. I'm not going to pretend that what you envision wouldn't be, like, a total wet dream for lots of companies in the game, but game streaming is not even close to being at a place where it could replace native play. If that future exists, it's a long time off, and that's coming from someone who sees streaming as a probable pillar of next-gen gaming in the immediate future.
 

BoosterDuck

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,681
because as long as offline gaming stays viable then it'll be the future as well
which I expect will stay that way for awhile
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,790
Consider a country like Canada where internet is capped and overpriced to the most ridiculous extent

Streaming probably is the future. But first things need to change

Depending on where you live in Canada, you may have access to a third party internet provider on cable or vdsl that provides unlimited plans. Come over to the Canadian Deals thread and we can help you find a provider and plan.
 

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,238
As someone all in on Game Pass, I think PSNOW has a better library than GP but what weighs it down more than anything is that sub fee. With my internet the streaming performance is pretty good but not great, but my biggest issue that prevents me from keeping it is the buy-in price. Also afaik Sony never has sales on subscription periods for it like GP does, you can tell they aren't really concerned with making it a big thing this gen considering their catalog (PS4 library that is) and general install base as is. That said it is pretty impressive wrt the catalog in general, I tried a bunch of exclusives I missed out on during PS3 gen, and it has a pretty decent lineup of fighting games too.

If Sony beefs up their cloud+streaming tech to make IQ and general perf better, plus slaps a more competitive subscription price on it then it'd be attracting a lot more users. Obviously bandwidth speeds are scattershot in general in certain parts of US so that's another issue. I'm fortunate that in my area Comcast has only increased speeds over the years without making it cost much more so I'm set, but for Joe Midwest that has fuck all for options due to lack of infrastructure and isp availability there's another reason this sort of thing isn't taking off. Also something is gonna need to give between Microsoft, Sony, or whoever is hosting these streaming services and ISPs with data caps. It's nutty how fast you can reach that 1tb Comcast limit with Game Pass.

It's gonna be interesting to see how fast it gets there with a higher quality streaming tech like xCloud that I'd assume uses more bandwidth. Somebody's gonna end up paying eventually to make that cap go away and I'm guessing it's sooner gonna be someone like MS paying off Comcast or whoever so their streaming service can reach people unfettered.
 
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Hokey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,164
It's the same reason flying cars are the future, the idea currently is good in theory but cannot exist without proper infrastructure.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
Banned
May 9, 2018
5,741

Tallshortman

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,631
Streaming as a true replacement is still a ways off, no matter how good the tech is bandwidth is still an issue. I have pretty decent 100mbps from Comcast and Google Stream was still low res (sub-HD) when I tried AC Odyssey.
 

Deguello

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
269
You know, the rest of your post is a realistic look at how streaming may impact the industry moving forward, but I wouldn't have opened with this. It's not far off from all of the motion control scaremongering back in 200X, back when people were willing to convince themselves for a moment that motion control might literally consume all of traditional gaming. I'm not going to pretend that what you envision wouldn't be, like, a total wet dream for lots of companies in the game, but game streaming is not even close to being at a place where it could replace native play. If that future exists, it's a long time off, and that's coming from someone who sees streaming as a probable pillar of next-gen gaming in the immediate future.

Well I agree with that. And I'm not trying to scaremonger, but if streaming were to become dominant, you can pretty much say goodbye to those events. Will it be worth the trade-off? What will customers get in return? We know the companies will benefit greatly from this move, and they already are framing it as trying to increase access to gaming, but little is being said about the people that will be left behind due to the fault of their geographies and finances. A poor family right now can grab a used console and some pretty cheap games, most of which won't necessarily require an internet connection to function. If the next console is streaming based, will the family be able to afford the monthly subscription on top of the superfast internet needed to function? You can't exactly get a "used" internet connection. I have a friend with terrible satellite internet as his only internet option (in the United States). He will basically be unable to play games if it's all streaming, which is even worse for him than always online DRM. At least the DRM check goes through.

The other thing that streaming gives companies is complete and total control over who accesses the games and how. This is why I mentioned "unapproved streamers." That's the part that I think is most worrisome anyway. Microsoft is already in a little hot water over Mike Ybarra basically arguing with critics over Anthem and telling customers to listen to their favorite streamer for their opinion instead of "modern reviews." And while there is some debate over whether professional journalists are "bought off" by carrying ads for the products they review, there are absolutely clear examples of streamers (often called "influencers") being paid to mix in paid advertisement into their livestreams. Imagine only the influencers that "play ball" having access to the game for the promise of controlled positive coverage. Did gaming ever have a payola scandal? Because I think it's about to get one if companies have this kind of control.

What do the customers get in return for turning over control over the media they purchase?
 

JayWood2010

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,120
Ps now is yesterdays games, and its kind of hard to justify spending a bunch of money on a bunch of old games.

Ps now is just not that enticing, and that isnt because of streaming.
 

Deguello

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
269
Convenience. Ability to play games on whatever device they want.

It's not necessarily convenient for people with bad internet (or even simply average internet). They just get a worse product and a feeling of being second-class for circumstances beyond their control, like they're being punished for not being able to convince AT&T, Comcast, etc. to bring broadband to their rural area. Or even that they are unable to convince said ISPs to up their speeds so this streaming thing works. Totally relying on ISPs for the entertainment seems like a recipe for disaster.
 

Osiris397

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,455
I've heard that currently if you have a great connection the latency in low to non-existant. Probably atleast half the gaming audience just will never use streaming. The minute the industry decides gamers will accept game streaming as the primary conduit of game delivery publisherswill have 100% control of every gamer's personal library game publishers will just push through the greediest monetization schemes ever seen, becuase HEY you won't have any alternative way to play games.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Psnow is used a lot though, it generates more revenue than all the instant library services combined.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
The last time I used it to try and play a game, it told me to queue.

Defeats the purpose of streaming if you have to queue to play a game.
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,817
Well this thread is disappointing. I was thinking about giving the trial a shot on my next vacation and it sounds like it'll suck for me
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
We're not in the future and most people still have data caps and slow connections. BTW, a lot of people use PS Now, it makes more money for Sony than all other subscription services (Origin, GamePass, Ubi, etc.) combined. If people weren't using it it wouldn't be printing money for Sony like it is. I just think the streaming tech isn't quite there yet due to internet limitations today and that's why you don't see Sony pushing it hard. A majority of their games division money comes from PS4 and PSN not PS Now.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
Its too much input lag for me when comparing it to smething like Geforce Now

I don't know anything about Geforce Now, but I have read more than enough user reviews claiming the lag is imperceptible or minimal. It'll vary of course. I'm tempted to initiate the 7 day free trial right now and give it a whirl...
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Wasn't the "it generates more income than everything else" a thing from Superdata, which wasn't exactly reliable? Why is anyone repeating it as gospel?
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,138
Alberta
Consider a country like Canada where internet is capped and overpriced to the most ridiculous extent

Streaming probably is the future. But first things need to change
Uhh...I live in Canada and I have 1 GB down/ 300 up and unlimited... Our cell phone options blow, but I have no complaints about our internet in our area :D