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If the Christian God really did prove himself would that really make some atheist start following him?
- Thread starter Deepthought_
- Start date
Because that might not be the point. Just because he hasn't interfered with our lives doesn't disprove a higher power. He could choose to only observe and see if his creation lives the way he wants us too.
That's what he is. He literally made a creature with free will to worship him and punishes us to eternal damnation if we don't. Fuck him if he does exist.
That seems to contradict the ideas that he's all-loving and all-powerful. What would we think of a person that had the immediate ability to easily prevent children from dying of starvation but that person just watched them die when he could prevent it with a snap of his finger.
What if a person locked their children in a hellish torture chamber for all their lives for disobeying some of their rules which is what the Christian god does to those who go to hell, could we still consider that person as a loving person?
Unrelated, but I can't think of a single way in which this site's new format improves upon the old one.
This God is supposed to be all-powerful. So if it wanted to "prove himself", he'd have the power to just simply make me (and everyone else) believe/follow him through its willpower alone.
If it can't even do that, then why should I believe in it, let alone worship it?
If it can't even do that, then why should I believe in it, let alone worship it?
I probably would, I'm just too scared of my own mortality, so I would cling pretty hard on the (now realistic) chance of a life after death.
because he's an egomaniac weirdo who wants you to believe in him without any proof. just showing you enough proof to believe in him isn't worth it; he's apparently so full of himself that he needs you to believe in him with zero proof.
How could I not. If Zeus descended from the sky and was like "hey mortals we Olympians just decided to take a break but check me out, obey or you suffer with Hades in the underworld when you die and not chilling in Elysium" then I'd be killing pigs on an altar to Zeus tomorrow. Or bleeding bulls? I forget the proper Zeus sacrifice.
Oh, I know. But I'm responding to the OP's hypothetical premise that this God did reveal itself to atheists. Basically, the premise is flawed, because we're talking about a so-called omnipotent god.
Where does Tengri rank in all this?
Zeus's power level isn't nearly as high as God's, but he's definitely stronger than Jesus. The Greek Pantheon would lose against the Abrahamic God.
I mean, if the Mongol empire is anything to go by, that has to be the most successful god
An argument could be made that conclusive proof makes all faith-based religious practice philosophically pointless so we could call the validity of all worship into question.
If the Christian God is what it claims to be and if it were definitively here I see no reason not to worship it because by definition if such a God appears then there's an objectively superior moral angle to everything.
If the Christian God is what it claims to be and if it were definitively here I see no reason not to worship it because by definition if such a God appears then there's an objectively superior moral angle to everything.
I would believe Christian god exists, but based on what happens in the world and based on what's described in Bible, that entity would be a gross immoral monster and not worthy of worship
Nah. I'm agnostic. I'm open to the idea of a god. Not the Christian God. That God is a monster.
Would you do evil things just because an extremely powerful but evil entity coerced you into it?
If yes, that's honestly sad and weak.
I wouldn't suddenly start killing gays and subjugating women. I'd be terrified of hell and suffering. But i wouldn't follow willingly.
I don't agree.
Such a god could claim to be a moral authority, but that concept doesn't fundamentally make sense to me so worship or not worship would still be a separate question.
People oppose tyrants and risk horrific torture in the real world all the time.
Look, if this god existed, and made himself known, then I'd know a being exists that thinks I deserve to be tortured for eternity just for existing, while he at the same time created me. How can I see such a being not as a horrific tyrant that already doomed me? What, but spite, would I have left?
Actual evidence. Which is independent of how many people believe something.
Given how "God" is depicted as a capricious tyrant asshole who wants us to suffer for all eternity because we simply don't follow him, i'd say Satan seem like a nicer dude to hang out with. Hands down.
So yes, i would "risk hell". Heaven seems boring either way.
satan: punishes bad guys with eternal torment
god: creates said bad guys and gives them free reign to do whatever they want; is willing to "forgive" them afterwards and give them a spot in eternal paradise
:thinking:
god: creates said bad guys and gives them free reign to do whatever they want; is willing to "forgive" them afterwards and give them a spot in eternal paradise
:thinking:
this is on topic...thus the conclusion:
the existence of this site's new format proves that there is no god ;-P
Proof of existence isn't sufficient enough to follow. Clarification needs to be provided about scripture and whatever else (ask this omnipotent being "are you for real with this shit?"). If the deplorable bits in Christianity turn out to be true, then we are at an impasse. If no clarification is provided, then I'm not going to blindly follow this omnipotent being based on questionable shit open to interpretation.
So are you telling me that in this hypothetical scenario that 'god' is holding me hostage?
"Do what i say or else!!"
Pardon me for not being susceptible to Stockholm syndrome then. And i don't response well to threats.
Also, we are at page 13 and nobody has asked the REAL question:
Is this the face of god.
If following him means eternity in heaven opposed to eternity in hell, I could probably be convinced. If there are other options I would probably check those out, but most probably christian god means exclusivity deal - almightyness etc.
Believe he exists? Sure, I would. But follow or worship him? His love for humanity seems pretty non-existent, so no.
Here's a better question: if any OTHER religion's God proved their existence, would Christians have the stomach to acknowledge it?
No. I would just stop being an atheist.
I wouldn't follow the Bible because its laws sucks and the god described there is a complete asshole.
The OP just wants to be validated for his religious beliefs.
Lots of contemporary Christians take blind faith as a moral virtue instead of a naive personal failing. You could turn the question around on OP and ask him if any other god showed themself conclusively, if OP would change religions. But you wouldn't get the answer you're hoping for, because that runs contrary to the whole idea of blind faith. He needs to say "no" because that's just how strongly and passionately he believes in the Judeo Christian YHWH.
hehehe no. I know Christians who think fossil records were put there by God to test our faith. lol
I mean, considering what he put Job through just to prove a point to Satan, I think it's pretty safe to say he wouldn't give a shit.
Let me tell you a story....:
12 years ago i was a nerd and almost introvert. I enjoyed my work at a gaming site called Onlinewelten.com as Admin for the LineAge2 Community. We traveled to the Games Convention in Leipzig. I met a gothic guy who became my best buddy. We rocked the Games Convention (i manipulated a "Contest" where you could win a "Spellborn" Painting, we got all the Wii stuff from Nintendo that we normally didnt get, i was invited to NC Soft in England to make a inside interview with their developing staff) and after 8 hours of press work we went to make party in the city. 5 days in a row. Thats where he forced me to go dancing for the first time. I always said i couldnt dance. After that time, it was the best time of my life, i introduced him to a girl i know... literally telling him "I know someone who fits you right away".
At that point of my life i wanted to force myself to break out of this nerdy, introverted cage and see the world, meet people.
Years later without contact ( i was working on myself and changed my whole life thansk to dancing)... i was invited to her marriage. The girl i knew was already mother of two kids and he became more down to earth... both found their happiness later in christian roots. It was love on first sight for them. I had to come because i was the reason they got married. From that point on we met more often again... i helped them with some stuff and now he founded a company and iam part of it and at the moment we are really successful in the blockchain market.
I always say "i won the karma lottery" but when we think about it... if he hadnt forced me to dance for the first time and i hadnt introduced him to the girl i know... we wouldnt be here at this point of life together, bulding up a blockchain company and reaching everything we ever wanted in our lifes. We think the same way and we have a huge amount of ideas for our system that we want to use to change the business markets.
The last years wasnt great for me even when i improved myself a lot i was stuck in the daily work wheel with shitty jobs that drained your soul. Because of him i got the chance to break out and this is one of our visions now "Escape the wheel".
They are even praying before dinner every evening. Thats a moment where i get chills now and even when i dont share their "Christian views" in the end we believe in the same thing. For them its "Christianty" and for me its just "Karma". Do good and good things will happen to you.
I also believe that every guy in the world believes in the same thing. There is only one god and its up to you how you view this god. For some its Jesus, for some Buddha, for some Allah and for me its just Karma.
So if some being shows up or proves itself it just the being i understand as Karma and for you its the being you understand as God.
12 years ago i was a nerd and almost introvert. I enjoyed my work at a gaming site called Onlinewelten.com as Admin for the LineAge2 Community. We traveled to the Games Convention in Leipzig. I met a gothic guy who became my best buddy. We rocked the Games Convention (i manipulated a "Contest" where you could win a "Spellborn" Painting, we got all the Wii stuff from Nintendo that we normally didnt get, i was invited to NC Soft in England to make a inside interview with their developing staff) and after 8 hours of press work we went to make party in the city. 5 days in a row. Thats where he forced me to go dancing for the first time. I always said i couldnt dance. After that time, it was the best time of my life, i introduced him to a girl i know... literally telling him "I know someone who fits you right away".
At that point of my life i wanted to force myself to break out of this nerdy, introverted cage and see the world, meet people.
Years later without contact ( i was working on myself and changed my whole life thansk to dancing)... i was invited to her marriage. The girl i knew was already mother of two kids and he became more down to earth... both found their happiness later in christian roots. It was love on first sight for them. I had to come because i was the reason they got married. From that point on we met more often again... i helped them with some stuff and now he founded a company and iam part of it and at the moment we are really successful in the blockchain market.
I always say "i won the karma lottery" but when we think about it... if he hadnt forced me to dance for the first time and i hadnt introduced him to the girl i know... we wouldnt be here at this point of life together, bulding up a blockchain company and reaching everything we ever wanted in our lifes. We think the same way and we have a huge amount of ideas for our system that we want to use to change the business markets.
The last years wasnt great for me even when i improved myself a lot i was stuck in the daily work wheel with shitty jobs that drained your soul. Because of him i got the chance to break out and this is one of our visions now "Escape the wheel".
They are even praying before dinner every evening. Thats a moment where i get chills now and even when i dont share their "Christian views" in the end we believe in the same thing. For them its "Christianty" and for me its just "Karma". Do good and good things will happen to you.
I also believe that every guy in the world believes in the same thing. There is only one god and its up to you how you view this god. For some its Jesus, for some Buddha, for some Allah and for me its just Karma.
So if some being shows up or proves itself it just the being i understand as Karma and for you its the being you understand as God.
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As a deist, no because I wouldn't follow someone or something that has shown through text reputed to be dictated by him that I have a higher moral code than.
Not sure which question to answer as the thread title and the OP's original post ask different things.
Firstly, if I were given irrefutable proof that God existed then of course I would believe in him/her. You'd have no choice but to in that case.
Would it affect how I live my life? I'm not sure. I like to think I lead a pretty good life. I'm good to people, donate to charity on a regular basis and I think I'd struggle to find anyone who had anything genuinely bad to say about me. Would that be enough or do I have to spend my life grovelling in worship to be deemed worthy of entering heaven?
More pertinently what have they done to earn my worship? If you take the bible as gospel (pun intended) then God created the universe, Earth, people, etc etc so you could say is that not enough to earn our worship? On the flip side though I would and do find it hard to justify worshipping a deity that willingly lets so many of its creations suffer in the most horrendous ways on a daily basis for no discernible reason and also refused to prove it's existence for thousands of years seemingly as part of some cosmic test! How could they go into somewhere like a children's cancer ward where they've suffered horrendously since birth in some cases and say "Here I am, where's my worship?".
I think I'd struggle where the options are "Believe and worship me to get to heaven" and ignore everything awful that "God" has apparently been responsible for or don't believe them and just eventually die and that's it. Currently I think I'd be more likely to take option 2.
Firstly, if I were given irrefutable proof that God existed then of course I would believe in him/her. You'd have no choice but to in that case.
Would it affect how I live my life? I'm not sure. I like to think I lead a pretty good life. I'm good to people, donate to charity on a regular basis and I think I'd struggle to find anyone who had anything genuinely bad to say about me. Would that be enough or do I have to spend my life grovelling in worship to be deemed worthy of entering heaven?
More pertinently what have they done to earn my worship? If you take the bible as gospel (pun intended) then God created the universe, Earth, people, etc etc so you could say is that not enough to earn our worship? On the flip side though I would and do find it hard to justify worshipping a deity that willingly lets so many of its creations suffer in the most horrendous ways on a daily basis for no discernible reason and also refused to prove it's existence for thousands of years seemingly as part of some cosmic test! How could they go into somewhere like a children's cancer ward where they've suffered horrendously since birth in some cases and say "Here I am, where's my worship?".
I think I'd struggle where the options are "Believe and worship me to get to heaven" and ignore everything awful that "God" has apparently been responsible for or don't believe them and just eventually die and that's it. Currently I think I'd be more likely to take option 2.
